U.S. considers adding more ethanol to gasoline to lower pump price -sources

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

NEW YORK, March 30 (Reuters) - The Biden administration is considering temporarily removing restrictions on summer sales of higher-ethanol gasoline blends as a way to lower fuel costs for U.S. consumers, three sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.

The review comes as President Joe Biden seeks to tame soaring pump prices, which hit a record this month following Russia's invasion of Ukraine in late February. The United States and other consumer countries have banned imports of oil from Russia, a major world supplier, to punish it for the invasion.

Adding more ethanol to gasoline blends could potentially reduce prices at U.S. gas pumps because ethanol, which is made from corn, is currently cheaper than straight gasoline.

The Environmental Protection Agency said it could not comment on whether it was considering the move, but said it was "considering a range of options across the administration to help mitigate impacts from Russia's actions on American consumers."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-u-looks-add-more-212705222.html

[lagomorph777]

1. Might not help the simultaneous global grain shortage, also due to Putin.

[W_HAMILTON]

3. The U.S. is by far the biggest producer of corn in the world:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/254292/global-corn-production-by-country/

[James48]

2. It will help a little.

But not a lot. Corn prices are also at high levels right now, in part because of the war and grain shortages out of Ukraine.

It’s a small help. At this time, everything can help.

[genxlib]

4. Doesn't it also lower the mileage that you get

You could still end up spending as much just to go the same number of miles.

[Norbert]

8. Yes which is why I never considered using E85

[ProfessorGAC]

15. Yes, It Does

Ethanol releases less energy upon combustion. Roughly 2/3rds.
It's not a directly proportional loss though, as ethanol is about 18% denser than gasoline. The blends are by volume, so the mass fraction as ethanol is higher than the 5 or 10% sold today.
It causes a pretty significant loss in mileage.
That said, ethanol creates 88g of CO2 for every 46g burned. Under 1.9:1.
Gasoline generates 352g of CO2 for every 114g burned. Over 3:1.
So, even with the greater total mass burned there is a net advantage, from a climate perspective, in using ethanol.
And, ethanol is currently priced at $2.16 per gallon, so there's a price advantage, too.

[roamer65]

22. My flex fuel equinox seems to do well on a E40' ish kinda mix.

[ProfessorGAC]

37. Probably Getting To The Point...

...where the difference is too small to matter.
You're still around 55% gasoline in an E40 (ish).
Technically, there would be a difference, but not enough to sweat it.

[genxlib]

25. Thanks Professor

Can always count on you for the facts

[MichMan]

5. Who is going to pay for all the engine repairs resulting from it ?

[Casandia]

6. Not a good idea

if you go beyond 10%, it will ruin small engines like lawn mowers, and this will corrode internal parts of high pressure pipelines

[2naSalit]

13. +1

Doesn't that harm catalytic converters too?

[ProfessorGAC]

16. No

Catalytic converters convert carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide & completes the oxidation of nitrogen oxides.
Ethanol combustion, due to the intrinsic oxygen, and saturation of the carbons, generates hardly any carbon monoxide & there are no nitrogen compounds.
The exhaust of ethanol is basically all carbon dioxide & steam.
The issue with ethanol is that elastomers in used for seals in engines are optimized for resistance to nonpolar solvents like gasoline. Ethanol is WAY higher polarity than gasoline. Those seals weren't optimized for that.
Cars that can burn E85 (Flex Fuel) have made the proper substitutions to avoid this.

[roamer65]

17. The substitution of ethanol cuts down the concentration of aromatics, like benzene, in the fuel.

Last edited Thu Mar 31, 2022, 11:36 PM - Edit history (1)

A known carcinogen.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. It's Not Just Aromatics

Gasoline is full of alkenes & alkyldienes. Like aromatics, the lack of hydrogen saturation (double bonds) leads to more partial combustion.
Those aren't necessarily as concerning to health as benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, or mesitylene, but they do contribute to carbon monoxide content.
Ethanol is saturated and carries it's own oxygen, making partial combustion far more likely.

[2naSalit]

18. Thanks...

For a succinct explanation!

I wasn't sure why it wouldn't but your explanation makes sense and answers my question. Guess that's what makes you a good professor.

[roamer65]

21. Also the ethanol does not contain sulfurous compounds like petroleum distillates.

Less sulfur equals less acid rain. Less dead lakes.

[bottrott]

7. Higher concentrations of ethanol blends

can cause both alcohol and water to come out of suspension, creating a gelatinous compound that can clog fuel pumps and injectors thus repair costs can go up. E15 is pretty stable stuff but going beyond that by much more increases the problem. Even E15 can reduce MPG albeit not so much as to offset the savings at the pump. Then there's the flex fuel blend of E85 but it requires a flex fueled engine to run. If I recall, the decision to stick with E10 for the max boiled down to voiding millions of vehicle warranties in the early 2010's, not really a technical reason E15 couldn't be used.

[ProfessorGAC]

19. You Sure About That?

My PhD is in physical organic chemistry and I'll be darned if I can come up with a partition scenario where adding more fully miscible solvent causes a breakdown of a suspension. Or how a suspension formed in the first place.
Also, there's no macromolecular basis for the formation of gel, as the detergent content in the gasoline is insufficient to achieve that micellar concentration.
It would require complex phase structure formation, (entering the M1 phase) which can't happen at that miniscule concentration of surfactant.

[bottrott]

27. I'd be happy to stand corrected

and this is my recollection of research around the time when the EPA was debating the proper levels for general use over a decade ago, specifically with regards to small engines. If I recall correctly, ethanol is hygroscopic and in small engines the combo leaves behind a nice yellowish gunk (gel was a bad choice of words) on carbs which causes issues. Water is not an intentional component of the ethanol/fuel formulation but can be introduced at multiple points along its transport. I'm no chemist so I'd defer to your knowledge here. I can only offer anecdotal evidence, having seen an increase in small engine fouling as formulations changed over time and in speaking to small engine specialists who near universally point to ethanol as the cause.

[kysrsoze]

9. Another bullshit giveaway to the agribusiness industry

We know how much extra oil is utilized to grow, transport, refine and re-transport ethanol. Combine that with fuel efficiency the more that is added, and consumers end up no better, moneywise - likely even worse due to almost assured corporate welfare that goes along with this.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. Probably not a lot of sympathy, but that plan wreaks havoc on older small engines

Pressure washers, generators, lots of outdoor power equipment that is far to expensive to replace and which is deigned to last forever.

[NickB79]

11. Because screw the climate, let's release MORE carbon

Ethanol is worse than straight gasoline for the environment.

https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/us-corn-based-ethanol-worse-climate-than-gasoline-study-finds-2022-02-14/

[2naSalit]

14. +1

[ProfessorGAC]

20. I Disagree

Their analysis includes the agribusiness contribution to emissions.
I think they're grossly understating the contribution due to the refining & distillation of petroleum.
From a pure chemistry perspective, ethanol has a big advantage of CO2 generated per unit energy created vs. gasoline. Over 10% less CO2 per unit energy.
I think this is sloppy work.

[roamer65]

12. Most cars made after 2001 can burn E15.

Do it!

https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2019/04/02/building-evidence-corn-ethanols-greenhouse-gas-profile

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17597269.2018.1546488

https://www.hi.umn.edu/2021/07/06/research-suggests-use-of-biofuels-reduces-cancer-risk/

My Cruze can burn E15 and my Equinox is flex fuel.

I welcome any opportunity to flip the bird to Saudi Arabia and Russia.

🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕

[NutmegYankee]

26. BMW, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota and Volkswagen have stated E15 will void the warranty.

Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz and Volvo have said E15 does not comply with the fuel requirements specified in their owner's manuals and may void warranty coverage.

This should be dead on arrival.

[roamer65]

34. Follow your car's manual.

But the rest of us with E15 compatible and flex fuel vehicles should have it as an option.

[NightWatcher]

23. Fuck no, I will pay for gas but I wont pay for more corn running through my engine.

I'll buy the E-free gas and get much better mileage and not mess up my engine.

[roamer65]

24. Read your car's manual first.

Many modern cars are designed to run at least E10 and my Chevy Cruze can go as high as E15 per the manual.

I expect E10 will be around for a long time to come, just like when we switched from leaded to unleaded fuel. That transition was quite a few years.

E15 when dispensed by a station is a separate nozzle with an orange sticker warning on it.

[hunter]

28. Agriculture is one of the most environmentally destructive things people do.

We shouldn't be encouraging that.

[gulliver]

29. Shouldn't we be encouraging more work from home?

That just seems too obvious for us all to be missing. But are we?

[jmowreader]

30. The boaters and motorcyclists will NOT be happy about this

It is illegal, by federal law, to put E15 in a boat or a motorcycle.

[Hotler]

31. I say no that. And isn't the ethanol industry tax payer subsidized? nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

32. Fuck that. Prices will still be high.

The only thing this will help is the bottom lines of the gas companies.

[Igirl]

35. Stop using food crops for fuel

Stop paying subsidies for ethanol. Stop promoting food sources for fuel. It only drives up the price of food directly or through our subsidies.

The farm lobby will never let corn ethanol go. They have fought the approval of iso Butanol or other alcohol additives that provide more energy per gallon and do so with out attracting water into your fuel system like ethanol.