The slaughter in Ukraine has revealed that the "elephant in the room" is actually a

[Atticus]

Tyrannosaurus Rex and we understandably recoil at the graphic evidence of just how needlessly cruel and bloodthirsty WE as a species, can be.

This is not a case of one maniac doing unspeakable things to helpless innocents. This is an army of tens of thousands of people like us and our neighbors who, with the blessing and encouragement of their insane leader, are literally slicing off ears, burning people alive and raping three-year-olds.

The Russian people have been trained for decades to regard government-approved "news" as FACT and any who question it as traitors. Accordingly, they now believe that Ukrainian "Nazis" have been ruthlessly abusing the Russian speakers among them and that any "excesses" by their troops are simply "payback".

If there are still any among us who consider Trump "just another politician" and his followers a conventional political party, I would encourage them to read Timothy Snyder's "ON TYRANNY" and understand that OUR "T. Rex in the room" has a MAGA tattoo and wears a red cap.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."--- Voltaire

[BigmanPigman]

1. It's too bad that NATO is falling for Putin's saber rattling.

Putin won't drop a nuclear bomb and a ton of retired and current US military officials have said this recently. They know their stuff. NATO needs to go in and should already have done this. The horrors we have seen so far is the tip of the iceberg. Sanctions will take too long. The Russian civilians are not feeling the sanctions or are interested in getting the facts themselves (sounds like the US). They mostly support Putin and are not trying to overthrow him. We can't wait any longer to act.

[dalton99a]

2. +1. The only language Putin understands is power

[wnylib]

12. Such a reckless suggestion ignores history.

In the early 1960s, the US military presented a first strike plan to President Kennedy to wage a "winnable" nuclear war on the Soviet Union. It was based on the superiority of US nuclear capability over Soviet capability, with a window of opportunity for the US at its peak in 1963. Kennedy chose diplomacy and treaties instead of launching a first strike nuclear attack on the Soviets.

If the US believed its nuclear superiority over the Soviets was great enough to "win" a first strike nuclear war, what's to say that Russia does not have that kind of confidence in its own nuclear capacity today? It does not matter whether that belief is true. It only matters whether Putin and his military advisors believe that it's true.

If Russia believes that its nuclear subs on US and European shores are superior enough to take out the US and European nations with a first strike, Putin is capable of doing it.

Talk about Russian roulette!

It is good that well informed, rational people are making the decisions in this crisis.

[EX500rider]

33. "that Russia does not have that kind of confidence in its own nuclear capacity today?"

Because they are quite aware of the 14 Ohio Class ballistic missile submarines we have, each with 24 missiles with 8 warheads each for a total of 2,688 nuclear warheads, even if only 1/3 the fleet is at sea that is still 896 warheads they can't stop.

Putin could strike the US but he know his country gets obliterated & turned to ashes in return and that's even if none of the 400 Minuteman III's x3 warheads or bombers gets launched, which is unlikely they would all get knocked out prelaunch.

https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Experience/Americas-Nuclear-Triad/

[wnylib]

36. If Biden, Harris, and Pelosi are taken out in

a Russian first strike, who gives the command and launches the codes for a retaliatory strike? Genuine question since I do not know what the protocols would be in such circumstances.

If you are certain that a nuclear war is not a current threat, what do you think is holding Biden and NATO back? What have you figured out that they are missing and shouldn't you inform them?

[EX500rider]

46. Not really saying it's not a threat

Just Putin would have to be suicidally insane to do it because we would wipe the floor with them even after a first strike
On their launch we would go to defcon 1... Our subs come close to the surface for orders after so many tries of reaching no one they will fire I believe is how it works. (When at defcon 1)

[EX500rider]

47. "If Biden, Harris, and Pelosi are taken out"

The chain of command is quite clear and keeps going down till they find somebody alive who wasn't in DC, the Postmaster or the head of the Dept of Agriculture etc.. He/she then become the civilian who can order the retaliatory strike.

Very good HBO movie with that very plot "By Dawn's Early Light"....With the president presumed dead, they swear in the US Secretary of the Interior as president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_Dawn%27s_Early_Light

Amazon has it for free with Prime: (has James Earl Jones too!)

https://www.amazon.com/Dawns-Early-Light-Powers-Boothe/dp/B09JFZVQDS/ref=tmm_aiv_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1649273183&sr=8-2

[AllyCat]

13. He has to feel some fear to come to the table.

And I don’t trust much that he says st that table but he will NEVER stop until we get him there.

[Sherman A1]

29. You are 1000% sure that he will not do so?

A very bad limited war is much preferable to a global catastrophe.

[dwayneb]

44. Nuclear war? Or living under the boot of Putin or a dictator?

It's easy for me to say because I've had my time in the sun.

NATO and the West needs to push back at Putin NOW - and they need to do it full force.

Is there a small risk that Putin would deploy a nuke? Yes there is.

But here's my opinion for what it is worth. I would rather leave this world a radioactive rubble pile than live under the boot of a heartless monster like Putin or one of his puppets.

Who wants their children or grand-children growing up in an Orwellian hell on earth? It is worth risking it all to prevent that. And make no mistake, Putin and Russia will do everything in their power to destroy the free world.

[KS Toronado]

3. FQX sure puts out a lot of absurdities

Will they encourage atrocities also?

[HAB911]

4. We are but Chimpanzees

with nukes

[whathehell]

32. You might want to speak for yourself there..

You may be a chimpanzee, but I'd guess the rest of us identify as humans...Just sayin'.

[AZ8theist]

38. HAB makes a perfectly reasonable point.

We are, as a species, too unevolved to NOT blow ourselves up with our inventions. Chimps with nukes. Stupid enough to destroy ourselves for simply greed and bigotry. And, BTW, humans are part of the ape family of primates more closely related to chimpanzees genetically than any other animal.

[HAB911]

42. almost 99 percent identical

however some would deny that, lol

[HAB911]

41. LOL

As a species, nothing personal of course

TOO FUNNY

[uponit7771]

5. Small and scary caveat, people in Russia **DO** have "both sides" but the state side is FAUX NewZ

... like and amplified.

There's VERY LITTLE difference between the state sanctioned and sponsored news (like BBC and NPR) and FAUX NewZ in Russia.

Please read an hour of TASS or Pravda with translation turned on, you'd be shocked at the unsourced quotes, rhetorical accusations, state leaning halve truths and other shit FAUX NewZ does on a minute by minute bases

FAUX NewZ should ... NOT DOUBT ... be put out of public space of decent news by the FCC or ... or professional consortiums.

[Justice matters.]

6. Yeah, but... Abu Graib anyone?

Never Forget...

[Atticus]

7. True enough. Which party was in charge of that? nt

[Justice matters.]

8. The torturers were 'US'

'We' have lost the moral ground.

[AllyCat]

14. No. We haven't. This time the whole world is with us.

We just need to lead.

[Jetheels]

15. Abu Ghraib was not women and children hog tied, raped, shot in the head because they were riding

a bike in front of their home.

[Justice matters.]

20. I saw pictures of dead children with their feet cut off by cluster bombs

I could search for it but I won't. The dead kid's father was holding him/her in his arm crying to god why? why? why?

I saw other pics of innocent civilians shot at point blank left behind the US shooter(s) down on the ground.

You want to search these pics?? They are still online for everyone to see. How fast we forget, uh?

A dead civilian is a dead civilian who did NOTHING to deserve that treatment, in Iraq or in Ukraine or in Vietnam!

[Jetheels]

21. So don't call out the horrors of war because of moral high ground?

[Justice matters.]

23. No. But there's a difference between "calling out" the horrors of war

and advocating "going out to actually kill thousands more, if not millions" to punish the aggressors, as we see here on this message board.

The GD "Rules" have been told by the Commander-In-Chief we elected, which are clear warnings to the aggressors to NOT attack ANY nation actually part of N A T O.

If the war criminal attacks one (or more) NATO nation(s), NATO being a Defense Pact, then all hell will break lose. Not before.

President Biden takes the decisions: Nobody else here.

[Atticus]

18. How did we find out about that? Oh, yeah---free press and media. Have the Russian people

been told the truth about Bucha?

The Russian soldiers who raped and tortured and executed civilians are called "heroes" at home. They actually received awards and recognition for their "patriotism".

Were those who participated in the Abu Gharaib tortures held in high regard in America? Were medals pinned on them?

Your comparison is not just "apples and oranges". It is raisins and watermelons.

The "moral ground" is an ideal one aspires to and, sometimes, temporarily holds. No one possesses it.

[oldsoftie]

11. equating that with what we're seeing now is farther than apples & oranges.

[Justice matters.]

17. The United States lost the high ground in Abu Graib.

The victims were not 'terrorists'

Iraq did not pose a threat to the United States of America, yet it was BRUTALLY attacked and civilians shot at for NO REASON.

Blackwater? Anyone????

[Warpy]

19. "Oh, but it stopped short of murder"

I'm not sure about that, we'd never be told if it had gone that far. The only reason the stink didn't cling to us is at the perps faced charges, got kicked out of the military, and some went to jail.

You bet we lost the moral high ground in Iraq. Oh, we'd lost some of it in our own hemisphere, like the US backed installation of Pinochet in Chile, but Iraq was the first unprovoked ground war to grab another people's resources. We can all thank our own monsters for that one.

[oldsoftie]

22. The US buys about 150k barrels of oil a day from Iraq. Hardly grabbing their resources.

Thats about 1/3 of what we were getting from Russia. And we PAY for it. They produce about 4M a day, so if oil was our goal we should be getting most of it.
While the invasion of Iraq, fabricated by Cheney, was certainly the WORST foreign policy decision by the US ever, we never had genocide as a part of the invasion plan like Putin does. And murdering civilians was also never part of the SOP of the military. It is with Russia. Far more civilians were killed by other Iraqis than US troops. And Zelynsky is certainly no Saddam either.

[Warpy]

24. That's because it didn't work

Didn't you ever read the whole PNAC plan for setting the entire Middle East on fire? Iraq was just the beginning.

Don't bother looking for the original website, the whole thing was scrubbed in 2006 when it was obvious that we'd stepped into a serious shitpile, although it wasn't until the rise of ISIS that we knew how serious it was.

[WarGamer]

25. Abu Graib?

But NOT Baghdad on Day #1 of "Shock and Awe"??

[Justice matters.]

26. Well, including that infamous start of the bush jr war of aggression.

And PNAC's too.

But now, apparently, we PAY for their oil. To Big Oil oligarchs... so it's all fine and done.

[orangecrush]

28. Agree 100%

The poster has been really slick about downplaying widespread Russian atrocity.

[stopdiggin]

30. I haven't. And yet I find myself fully capable

of holding Putin (and Russian troops) completely, and solely, responsible for atrocities committed in the Ukraine. The war crimes committed by these actors - is in no way mitigated ...

And I rather hope that was not the suggestion.

[Justice matters.]

31. It was not the suggestion. All those news about tortured victims...

just BROUGHT BACK painful memories from effin Abu Graib, you know, the guy "plugged" with wires standing up for 2 days with a black hood over his face??

Can't blame me for that disgusting PTSD, right?

[oldsoftie]

10. We need to give UKR immediate offensive capabilities NOW. Not later. NOW.

They need anti ship systems NOW in Odessa. they need tanks. jets
Send them everything possible NOW & quit screwing around otherwise Putin will kill everyone & then. he'll go after MORE countries.

[orangecrush]

34. +1

Fuck Putin..

Fuck Russia.

They have shown themselves.

[Achilleaze]

16. k and r

[Joinfortmill]

27. Beware the human race.

[czarjak]

35. My hate-filled family, friends and foes should be ashamed of themselves for supporting these monster

But, alas, mission impossible.

[mvd]

37. It seems to me that..

instead of a conventional war, this has become a free for all killing operation. Even more tragic.

[DFW]

39. We saw this in Bosnia 30 years ago

Neighbors whose families had lived side by side peacefully and in friendship for generations were suddenly burning each other's houses down and carving their neighbors into unrecognizeable butcher scraps.

Like the Ukrainians, these people are a two hour (or less) flight away from us. The only reason there were less of them streaming into Germany at the time is that there ARE less of them, and instead of streaming across Poland to get here, they streamed across Austria and Italy.

[oldsoftie]

40. And the Serbs, friends of Russia, were the biggest butchers in that war.

Its a pattern for those types.

[Pacifist Patriot]

43. The Voltaire quote has been front and center in my brain for weeks.

Off and on for my entire life.

[The Jungle 1]

45. The russians have committed war crimes.

Ukraine and the world need to answer these crimes. All russians killed on the field of battle shall have their ID obtained and their balls cut off. Put them in a box and send the box home to their mothers and wives..
Round up all russian mob members in this country and put them in a row boat.