No Easy Answer for Ramping Up Stinger Production

[Sherman A1]

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/04/no-easy-answer-for-ramping-up-stinger-production-pentagon-no-2-says/

LOS ANGELES: Obsolete parts and workforce issues are presenting a problem for the United States as it considers ramping up production of the shoulder mounted Stinger anti-aircraft system in order to surge weapons for Ukraine and replenish US stocks, the Pentagon’s No. 2 official said Tuesday.

Since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in February, US and NATO-provided munitions such as the Raytheon-made Stinger have been integral for Ukrainian forces as they attempt to retain control of their airspace against the larger, better equipped Russian military.

However, lawmakers’ concerns about the US military’s own dwindling stockpile has raised questions about how best to replenish the munitions — questions that Deputy Secretary Kathleen Hicks said the Pentagon is still in the process of figuring out how to resolve, particularly with regard to Stinger.

“There are some very specific issues with regard to Stinger and some obsolescence issues that we have to overcome,” Hicks told traveling press, including Breaking Defense, on Tuesday. “That’s because we in the US, we’re focusing ourselves forward on new capability. So now we want to make sure we can.

[Deminpenn]

1. Not surprised

Been out of DoD for awhile, but even then defense contractors got in the habit of shucking parts and unique tooling once production contracts ended. That was exacerbated by the pressure on the DoD supply system to get rid of "excess" inventory of parts that supported those out-of-production system.

[Sherman A1]

2. I'm not at all surprised either

And have been concerned about the “burn through” rate of the weapons shipped as the supply is a finite number.

I want the Ukrainians to kick the Russians in the lower torso multiple times and out of their country but supplies are not unlimited as some might not understand.

[Deminpenn]

3. DoD got on the just-in-time bandwagon

over 20 years ago. Everything was geared to holding minimal inventory. Used to wonder if the US defense industry could ramp up if the US ever got into another conflict like WWII.

[Sherman A1]

6. Just in time........

A wonderful system that works right up until the point where it doesn’t and it will at some point in time fail, usually at the worst possible moment.

[Deminpenn]

16. Pretty much what every

spare parts manager at my command thought, too, but the Navy was probably more committed and determined to do it than any of the other services.

[gab13by13]

4. Simple solutions,

cut back on selling weapons to other countries, such as Saudi Arabia, and UAE.

[Sherman A1]

5. There are rarely simple solutions

To complex issues.

[gab13by13]

7. What % of our military weapons are sold to other countries,

some not that friendly to us? Simple math to me, stop funding conflicts across the world.

[Kaleva]

8. How many Stingers do we sell to other countries annually?

[gab13by13]

10. I know this, the United States is the #1 exporter of military weapons,

and Russia is 2nd. In 2020 we sold 175 billion dollars worth of weapons to foreign countries.

We are #1.

[Kaleva]

11. I imagine many of those weapons won't do UKR much good.

It'd take some time to train the pilots and ground crew to operate F35s.

Same issue with the Apache attack helicopters

[Kaleva]

12. Just read an article that the US has about 15k Stingers

in it's inventory.

So it seems possible we could send many thousands

[Kaleva]

9. Russia has a similiar problem and it's worse.

Many of the weapons they are using in Ukraine are legacy weapons left over from the Soviet era. The tanks, IFVs, APCs, artillery and rocket launchers .

[gab13by13]

13. Yup, the corruption of skimming money by the oligarchs wasn't limited to the oil and gas industries.

There is plenty of corruption in Russia's military industrial complex.

[Sgent]

14. I think the real problem

is that the military / congress doesn't see stingers as part of our future, and they hate to restart a production line at significant cost only to shut it down just for Ukraine. Before this war we probably had all the stingers we ever planned on buying since they are useless against low flying drones and missiles.

Our next weapon that takes its place will probably be mounted on an APC, tank, or other wheeled / tracked vehicle. If we do another handled weapon like the stinger, it will probably be either be an additional mode / warhead for the javelin system or a major redesign.

[EndlessWire]

18. They need to start viewing Ukraine

as part of our future. We have to help Ukraine win. It's not just to stick it to Putin; Putin will NOT stop if he wins in Ukraine in any respect. He needs to be shut down NOW.

Since experts are now predicting that this war will last years, then apparently we have time to TRAIN Ukrainian pilots and systems operators on high end hardware that can beat Russia. I would bet that Ukrainians are highly motivated to learn quicker and more thoroughly than any trainee they ever had.

Replacing depleted stocks of old designs is one thing; they need to also start training Ukraine on more advanced systems that do not have these legacy issues at all. Ukraine could then interface in at least supportive roles if and when the time comes.

Fuck Russia and all those who support Putin.

[dalton99a]

15. "Raytheon probably made more money off selling a Patriot missile system to Saudi Arabia

than they will from making Stinger missiles"

"If 1,000 Stingers and 1,000 Javelins get shipped to Eastern Europe each month for the next year, which is not unlikely given the current pace, in our view, we think it would equate to $1 billion to $2 billion in revenue for both program manufacturers, which is material," said Colin Scarola of CFRA, an investment research firm.

Raytheon's and Lockheed's revenue figures last year dwarf that amount, however: $64 billion and $67 billion, respectively.

"Raytheon probably made more money off selling a Patriot missile system to Saudi Arabia than they will from making Stinger missiles," said Jordan Cohen, an arms sales specialist at the Cato Institute.

"They're only going to put so much effort into producing those weapons that are not that valuable," Cohen told AFP.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220403-us-defense-contractors-see-longer-term-benefits-from-war-in-ukraine

[Deminpenn]

17. Not sure most Americans understand just how small

DoD contracts are in comparison to private sector contracts. There aren't generally economies of scale just due to the way government contracting is done. You can't buy more than you need at any one time. If you did, the gov't would get slammed for "wasting taxpayer dollars".

The analysis quoted above makes perfect sense under those conditions.