Annnnd another one flips

[Ohio Joe]

Proud Boys conspirator reaches plea deal in Jan. 6 case

The president of a North Carolina chapter of the far-right group the Proud Boys entered a plea agreement Friday with prosecutors investigating the assault on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

Charles Donohoe, 34, who has close ties to Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio, pleaded guilty to conspiracy and assaulting and impeding police officers. The maximum charges are 20 years for conspiracy and eight years for the assaulting and impeding police charge, although he's expected to receive a lighter sentence for pleading guilty and cooperating with prosecutors.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/proud-boys-conspirator-charles-donohoe-plea-deal-jan-6-case/

Facing almost 30 years for his particular crimes, this one has decided he would like to exit prison alive. He'll be able to hand over testimony and documents that will not only give more dirt on the 12 seditious conspirators but give more hard evidence on their handler, Roger Stone... Whose lawyers I expect are preparing for his (Stones) flip on the rest of TFG's inner circle.

I know, I know, it's all so obvious we should not have to prove it in a court of law... It's all a waste of time and Garland not doing his job until and unless TFG is in handcuffs.

But we do. We have to build this as though it is one of the largest mob cases ever done in this United States... Which it is.

[Fiendish Thingy]

1. I don't think Stone will flip; Alex Jones on the other hand...nt

[mopinko]

3. you may be right. any real sentence is life for him at this point.

[Ohio Joe]

17. So... Lets talk about that and why I think it will be Stone...

First... Jones is an idiot. Look at how he is 'handling' his defamation suit over the Sandy Hook shootings and his vile lies about the families. He's racked up huge fines to avoid giving a deposition he knows he cannot avoid. He's a moron who does not know when to stop... He has to give the impression he believes his bullshit in order to get to the next grift... And that is all he cares about, the next grift... He refuses to see past that.

Stone on the other hand... This guy is an evil fucker without remorse, but he is not entirely stupid. Then there is the clip from the upcoming documentary, A Storm Foretold, where Stone is caught begging for a pardon and then threatening Kushner for not getting him one:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/roger-stone-said-jared-kushner-should-be-punished-in-the-most-brutal-possible-way-in-previously-unheard-recordings-wapo-reports/ar-AAUGBOv?ocid=msedgntp

As a side note, I'm really looking forward to this documentary coming out later this year, I'm hoping just before the mid-terms

The documentary also includes footage of Stone saying what a dumb plan it was and how it was illegal.

Plus... Stone has lately been doing a lot of complaining about TFG's 'truth' social is now censoring him:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/roger-stone-claims-hes-being-censored-on-trumps-truth-social

An evil fucker, no doubt but I really expect he is not stupid enough to want to die in jail. He stuck to TFG and kept his mouth shut on his conviction when TFG was president because he knew he could get a pardon then, and he was right. Now, he knows no such pardon will follow so I'm betting he flips in the hope of not dying in jail... Fortunately, he is old so I'm hoping he does still die in jail.

I'm also probably hoping he'll flip first because I bet he knows more than Jones. We'll see though... I'm sure it will be interesting either way.

[Hoyt]

2. Unfortunately, none of the flippers have implicated trump.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

7. Info from flippers have not been made public.

Does it lead to a bigger fish, that becomes a bigger flipper? Or does it lead directly to trump? I haven't seen that info become public.

[Hoyt]

11. If one of those MFers implicated trump, it would be all over the media.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

14. 1st - that's not true. 2nd - if a flipper leads to a bigger fish (ie Stone), I'm good w/that. nt

[Hoyt]

15. Oh, I think they'll get Stone. Also, believe if they had hard evidence on trump,

we’d know it. Problem is, they ain’t found it yet, and questionable they will at this point.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

19. Unfounded speculation is not useful to me.

The House select committee investigating the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol is aiming to release an interim report of its findings this June.

[Hoyt]

20. But speculation that they have hard evidence is OK with you.

Sorry, I’m for moving on, keeping House and maybe Senate in mid-terms, working on legislation that will actually help poor people, etc.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

22. I'm unsure of where you are getting this information.

Psychologists use the term “gaslighting” to refer to a specific type of manipulation where the manipulator is trying to get someone else (or a group of people) to question their own reality, memory or perceptions.

[Hoyt]

23. Yes, and psychologists also talk about unhealthy obsession.

The MFer is gone, as far as I’m concerned.

[Ohio Joe]

26. I disagree...

The evidence in this case needs to be followed, otherwise the mob boss will regroup and try again.

[Hoyt]

27. If he does, which I doubt, better be prepared to beat him at polls.

[Ohio Joe]

28. We have to do that anyway...

Fortunately, we have an entire dept that is on the scent and will not be stopping so... We can do both

[Hoyt]

30. Oh, prepare for voting, but try to block him from running (in a democracy).

That’ll look good.

[Ohio Joe]

31. The DOJ investigation is not to stop him from running...

It’s to hold him responsible for his attempted coup.

[Hoyt]

32. OK. trump will still be free in 2024, but a feeble loser.

[Ohio Joe]

33. That he will be free is not a lock...

I’m typing on my phone right now and don’t want to type it all out again but you can find a primer here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16567479

I strongly suggest reading the link there to another post talking about what emptywheel.net says is had, is needed to indict TFG. It’s good stuff if you are serious about what is/has been happening.

[MineralMan]

8. And how, exactly, do you know that?

Do you have access to their testimony or agreements with the prosecution? Do tell, won't you?

[Hoyt]

9. Same way you think they have implicated trump. Besides, if one of them said "trump

sent me a Sharpie drawing of Capitol and where we should enter,” it would have been released as the first Bombshell that doesn’t fizzle.

But dream on.

[MineralMan]

10. So, you're just pulling that statement out of some dark place?

Yep...

See, I didn't say they implicated Trump. Why? Because I don't know that they did, and have no evidence that they did. Just like you have no evidence that they did not.

[Hoyt]

12. As are you. Care to show any speculation a Proud Boy, Oath Keeper,

Roger Stone, etc., has implicated trump.

[MineralMan]

13. I've never said anything of the sort.

I have no information that says they did. So, I wouldn't say such a thing.

[sop]

34. So far a significant number of 1/6 insurrectionists on trial have argued "Trump made me do it!"

If a horde of dumbass foot soldiers are readily implicating Trump for their crimes, what do you think actual coup planners like Stone will say when they find themselves on the horns of the same dilemma?

[Hoyt]

36. "trump made me do it." How has that worked for them?

[Qutzupalotl]

45. It works for justice,

because it establishes in court Trump's culpability.

[KS Toronado]

21. + 100

[Hoyt]

25. Here's evidence they won't implicate trump.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142901141

[stopdiggin]

16. it would not be a surprise

if there were not a 'firewall' of some sort built around 45 (and it would be consistent with his standard MO). BUT - the question remains whether Donald was really smart enough to 'stay away' - and that is what 'flipping' is really all about. But - second hand testimony and 'accounts' are not going to cut it here.

(I'm among those that have never been impressed with how 'clever' this man supposedly is. Far too off the cuff and impulsive as far as I'm concerned. I'm betting he could resist .. )

[Ohio Joe]

18. At this point... Probably not...

That almost certainly will only come from the inner circle and that is where these flip come into play. Like I said, this is a mob case so it goes from the ground up. We have the low level thugs... Now we have their leaders... These leaders will go to the inner circle and then TFG.

It's how a mob case goes.

[Hoyt]

37. Have you seen one "flip" from the inner circle to date? All these MFers say they are going to

cooperate with prosecutors, but that doesn't mean they have anything that will implicate the orange buffoon.

We all know trump is a reprobate, racist, criminal, and is not fit for office. But that is not going to get him convicted.

[Ohio Joe]

38. No, not yet...

We do know that right now two proud boy leaders have flipped. We also know that the govt is not going to flip them unless they plan of getting dirt on higher ups... They already had the twelve seditious conspirators nailed, flipping is to go up the chain. We also know both have strong ties to Roger Stone and that Stone has been under investigation for a while now. Stone was able to keep his mouth shut when TFG was president because he knew a pardon was coming... Not so much anymore. I expect he does not want to die in prison, combined with his dissatisfaction with maga world lately, he is my guess to be the first of the inner circle to flip. There are also 7 others of the inner circle under investigation that we know of, see here for details:

https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/02/08/the-eight-trump-associates-whom-doj-is-investigating/

You are correct, us 'knowing' will not convict jack or shit but Garland has treated this like a classic mob case and is building it solid. Even Laurence Tribe is thinking that these days:

[Hoyt]

39. They've flipped on other Proud Boy leaders. That's good. But it ain't trump.

[Ohio Joe]

40. See... That does not make sense to me...

Start with... Neither of us KNOWS who these two guys are flipping on at this point. There is speculation in the press, but nothing has been stated from DOJ at this point to give a definitive answer.

What we do know is that the DOJ has a conviction rate pretty damn close to perfect... We know that. We also know that neither of these guys were flipped until after they were indicted... We know that.

If one wishes to believe that Garland just wanted to make his solid case against the seditious conspirators... ummm, more solid. And that Garland is lying about following the evidence where it leads... Then it makes sense he would get them to flip on people he already had.

I do not follow that line of thinking though... I have no reason to believe Garland is lying and that in fact he is going to follow this through. So it makes sense that he got these guys to flip on people he does not have enough to indict yet... That means moving up the food chain to the inner circle.

Why would he get them to flip on people he already has, instead of people he does not, is the question. Do you have an answer for that?

[Hoyt]

41. OK, when prosecutors come up with emails, phone calls, etc., of Proud Boyz conspiring with trump,

let me know. I'll celebrate with you.

[Ohio Joe]

42. I expect to sort of see that with Tario's trial...

Maybe sooner, I'm not certain how much can be said before trial, we do know some already but... The DOJ spent a long time (one of the big hold-ups actually) cracking Tario's phone but that is now complete, and they have everything that was on it:

https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/04/01/on-enrique-tarrios-complex-password-and-other-reasons-the-january-6-investigation-can-now-move-to-organizer-inciters/

Though to be fair... That will probably not lead to TFG... It will lead to the inner circle. The mob boss keeps himself insulated.

[Hoyt]

43. I've long thought "inner circle" -- like Stone, Bannon -- might get convicted. But trump, doubt it.

[Ohio Joe]

44. Bannon and Stone will almost certainly be convicted...

I also see little escape for Meadows, he fucked up badly by giving over a ton of documents early. They are all older and (especially Stone) I expect they will not want to die in prison. They will have zero hope for a pardon (as when TFG was president). TFG will not find himself in the oval office again and nobody else who has even a remote chance to, will give a shit about them... And they know this. Stone is already caught on camera from 1/6 admitting it was all illegal and threatening Kushner if Kushner did not get him a pardon (for 1/6, not the earlier pardon)... Which did not happen. I fully expect at least Stone to flip fast and that DOJ will allow one more of the inner circle to flip... Maybe two if they need it. But I see no reason they would stop just short of TFG when they will have people begging to flip.

On a side note... I still have big hopes that Stone will die in prison, even with a reduced sentence, as the little fucker deserves to do.

[Achilleaze]

4. There is no honor among Republican traitors

Just as these Republican hoodlums betrayed the USA, so now they betray their Republican komrades.

Treason is a rotten business, as the G.O.P. has convincingly demonstrated.

[WhiteTara]

5. this is part of the international criminal organization

I understand there's a 5 million dollar bounty on Semion, the mob boss.

[Uncle Joe]

6. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread Ohio Joe

[dchill]

24. K&R!

[malaise]

29. K & R

The party’s over

[GoodRaisin]

35. Yep. People have to realize there is a lot of hay to stuff in this elephant

before we reach the end of the sedition trail.