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BumRushDaShow

(128,979 posts)
Fri Apr 8, 2022, 06:43 PM Apr 2022

Russian Blunders in Chernobyl: 'They Came and Did Whatever They Wanted.'

Russian Blunders in Chernobyl: ‘They Came and Did Whatever They Wanted.’

By Andrew E. Kramer


April 8, 2022, 4:43 p.m. ET


CHERNOBYL, Ukraine — As the staging ground for an assault on the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv, the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, one of the most toxic places on earth, was probably not the best choice. But that did not seem to bother the Russian generals who took over the site in the early stages of the war. “We told them not to do it, that it was dangerous, but they ignored us,” Valeriy Simyonov, the chief safety engineer for the Chernobyl nuclear site, said in an interview. Apparently undeterred by safety concerns, the Russian forces tramped about the grounds with bulldozers and tanks, digging trenches and bunkers — and exposing themselves to potentially harmful doses of radiation lingering beneath the surface. In a visit to the recently liberated nuclear station, site of the world’s worst nuclear disaster in 1986, wind blew swirls of dust along the roads, and scenes of disregard for safety were everywhere, though Ukrainian nuclear officials say no major radiation leak was triggered by Russia’s monthlong military occupation.

At just one site of extensive trenching a few hundred yards outside the town of Chernobyl, the Russian army had dug an elaborate maze of sunken walkways and bunkers. An abandoned armored personnel carrier sat nearby. The soldiers had apparently camped out for weeks in the radioactive forest. While international nuclear safety experts say they have not confirmed any cases of radiation sickness among the soldiers, the cancers and other potential health problems associated with radiation exposure might not develop until decades later. Mr. Simyonov said that the Russian military had deployed officers from a nuclear, biological and chemical unit, as well as experts from Rosatom, Russia’s state nuclear power company, who consulted with the Ukrainian scientists.

But the Russian nuclear experts seemed to hold little sway over the army commanders, he said. The military men seemed more preoccupied with planning the assault on Kyiv and, after that failed, using Chernobyl as an escape route to Belarus for their badly mauled troops. “They came and did whatever they wanted” in the zone around the station, Mr. Simyonov said. Despite efforts by him and other Ukrainian nuclear engineers and technicians who remained at the site through the occupation, working round-the-clock and unable to leave except for one shift change in late March, the entrenching continued. The earthworks were not the only instance of recklessness in the treatment of a site so toxic it still holds the potential to spread radiation well beyond Ukraine’s borders.

In a particularly ill-advised action, a Russian soldier from a chemical, biological and nuclear protection unit picked up a source of cobalt-60 at one waste storage site with his bare hands, exposing himself to so much radiation in a few seconds that it went off the scales of a Geiger counter, Mr. Simyonov said. It was not clear what happened to the man, he said. The most concerning moment, Mr. Simyonov said, came in mid-March, when electrical power was cut to a cooling pool that stores spent nuclear fuel rods that contain many times more radioactive material than was dispersed in the 1986 catastrophe. That raised the concern among Ukrainians of a fire if the water cooling the fuel rods boiled away, exposing them to the air, though that prospect was quickly dismissed by experts. “They’re emphasizing the worst-case scenarios, which are possible but not necessarily plausible,” said Edwin Lyman, a reactor expert at the Union of Concerned Scientists.

(snip)

More: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/08/world/europe/ukraine-chernobyl.html


An image from the article apparently shows that when the Russian soldiers were occupying Chernobyl and were operating in and around the Exclusion Zone, they were actually digging trenches in some locations to fortify their positions (and were creating what looks like bivouacs). This had been reported on the news with the caveat that this "hadn't been confirmed". Well apparently based on the below, it has -


An abandoned Russian checkpoint in the Exclusion Zone. The camps showed signs of Russian forces digging in soil that could contain radioactivity 1,000 times ambient levels, enough to cause cancers.

Doing that of course disturbs the long-settled radioactive soil that was slowly covered over with old dead vegetation and some new vegetation (interestingly enough being monitored as part of research on the aftermath of meltdowns like what happened there, on surrounding flora and fauna and impacts on the people exposed). This is the natural progression of what happens on the planet where geologists study the "layers" of earth as they compact over hundreds if not thousands or millions of years.

So the just-over-35 years that have passed since the meltdown, is just a blip in time, and it doesn't take much for that stuff to be exposed again and that primary fuel (235U) has a half-life in the hundreds of millions of years.

I am not a nuclear scientist, just a plain old ACS-certified chemist who mostly did analytical chemistry at work as part of my career before retiring (and on occasion dealing with some radioactive substances). But all I can say, just based on that one pic, is that they're fucked. It may take awhile to manifest but...
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Russian Blunders in Chernobyl: 'They Came and Did Whatever They Wanted.' (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Apr 2022 OP
Has Russia done anything competently in Ukraine? OAITW r.2.0 Apr 2022 #1
In order: No. We'll never know. And Yes. Hekate Apr 2022 #6
They've been unfortunately successful at competently leveling several cities Blue_Adept Apr 2022 #15
There will be cancer in their futures. herding cats Apr 2022 #2
Nice, cozy little bunker they got there. Wingus Dingus Apr 2022 #3
Putin and the Generals don't care if they die and they will. sheshe2 Apr 2022 #4
Theirs will be very painful deaths. ZonkerHarris Apr 2022 #5
I read, somewhere, that these soldiers mcar Apr 2022 #7
They seem to have a "thing" with radiation and use of it as a personal weapon BumRushDaShow Apr 2022 #8
Ah yes, the Polonium that Putin favors Hekate Apr 2022 #13
Truly ignorant and they will get sick and die. Fools. A bit fitting I suppose...n/t Evolve Dammit Apr 2022 #9
I've watched a few vids of "illegal hikes through the Red Forest," Warpy Apr 2022 #10
From what I have read on and off over the years BumRushDaShow Apr 2022 #14
These hikes have exited the roadway to explore piles of exposed dirt within the forest Warpy Apr 2022 #16
Well these guys BumRushDaShow Apr 2022 #17
This war will be one for the history books! "How To Lose A War For Dumskis And Dumbass" TeamProg Apr 2022 #11
I wish them all the very worst. At this point, as far as I'm concerned, Crunchy Frog Apr 2022 #12
Mother Russia loves her finest. Kid Berwyn Apr 2022 #18
And Russia will continue to do whatever they want without fear of intervention n/t ripcord Apr 2022 #19

OAITW r.2.0

(24,504 posts)
1. Has Russia done anything competently in Ukraine?
Fri Apr 8, 2022, 06:49 PM
Apr 2022

How many Russian conscripts will get radiation sickness? Russia has been exposed as the Potemkin military force that it is.

Hekate

(90,686 posts)
6. In order: No. We'll never know. And Yes.
Fri Apr 8, 2022, 07:03 PM
Apr 2022

As far as I can tell, the only thing the Russians seem to know how to do is turn a country to rubble and kill or enslave its inhabitants. I don’t get it.

I remain utterly appalled that they sent all these ignorant youngsters in to die from radiation sickness. However, given the evidence of the kinds of atrocities/war crimes the army as a whole has been engaging in, one thing I am kind of glad to hear of is how many officers, up to and including generals, did time at Chernobyl.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
2. There will be cancer in their futures.
Fri Apr 8, 2022, 06:53 PM
Apr 2022

Many different cancers will ravage their bodies.

Like they say, choices have consequences.

mcar

(42,331 posts)
7. I read, somewhere, that these soldiers
Fri Apr 8, 2022, 07:10 PM
Apr 2022

have a year to live because of this.

How could their military leaders be this stupid?

BumRushDaShow

(128,979 posts)
8. They seem to have a "thing" with radiation and use of it as a personal weapon
Fri Apr 8, 2022, 07:23 PM
Apr 2022

or at least Putin's FSB does.

Warpy

(111,261 posts)
10. I've watched a few vids of "illegal hikes through the Red Forest,"
Fri Apr 8, 2022, 09:21 PM
Apr 2022

some a little less stupid than others. There is routine maintenance to clear the right of way for high tension power lines of brush. As long as the soil isn't disturbed or anything that grew there is eaten, short exposure isn't terrible.

There is a dirt road and there are occasional patches of bare soil, and those have the highest counts, the highest I saw was 6 + milliSieverts/hr, not a massive amount for a half hour hike but certainly more than I'd want to live near, even at my age.

No one was foolish enough to disturb the soil on these hikes, so let's call it 6 milliSieverts/hour X 24 hours X 30 days. That's 4.32 Sieverts, enough to give them non fatal radiation sickness followed by one problem after another. The threshhold for immediate radiation sickness is 1 Sievert, so I imagine most of them were sick as hell when they left.

The radiation won't be what kills them outright, it will be the cumulative effects of GI bleeding, lung and liver damage, and a weakened immune system that leads to one opportunistic infection after another.

I don't know who was utterly stupid enough to order this, but he needs to be busted back to hospital orderly in charge of emptying the urinals for these guys when they're in the hospital, because that's where most of them will be spending a great part of the rest of their lives.

BumRushDaShow

(128,979 posts)
14. From what I have read on and off over the years
Sat Apr 9, 2022, 05:20 AM
Apr 2022

they have designated roads and "paths" that anyone traversing through the area are warned to stick to for that reason. Due to the climate there, the early spring tends to bring drying winds (like here in eastern PA & across the river in NJ) and any sparks can trigger brush and wildfires. When those scattered fires happen within the Exclusion Zone, they have trained crews (who are in hazmat gear) who have to be aware of those paths and who have to alter fire-fighting techniques to minimize what could become airborne radioactive dust and debris.

There were already fires reported within that huge zone last month not that far from the plant (there are a bunch of media reports but here is one from the "Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists" ) -

Wildfires break out in Chernobyl amid a non-functioning radiation-monitoring system

By Susan D’Agostino | March 23, 2022



Seven wildfires have broken out in the exclusion zone surrounding the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant, the site of the world’s worst nuclear disaster, according to a statement by Ukraine’s Parliament. The fires, which were observed via satellite, exceed Ukraine’s emergency classification criteria tenfold. Ukrainian officials stated that the fires were caused by “the armed aggression of the Russian Federation, namely the shelling or arson,” though this has not been independently verified. Wildfires risk mobilizing and dispersing radioactive contaminants left over from the 1986 nuclear accident at Chernobyl.

Ukrainian firefighters have been unable to access the area since Russia took control in the first days of the war. Energoatom, Ukraine’s state nuclear company, also reported this week that Chernobyl’s radiation monitoring system is no longer working. Without the data that system would provide, radiation levels in the region may rise unchecked. Though the Chernobyl nuclear power plant is no longer operational, it requires constant management. Ukraine’s State Agency on Exclusion Zone Management also reported this week that the Russian military destroyed a six-million-euro laboratory that, in part, worked to improve radioactive waste management, according to the Associated Press. The lab contained “highly active samples and samples of radionuclides” that could have been released, according to the agency.

Seasonal wildfires are common during spring and summer in the region surrounding Chernobyl. An April 2020 wildfire required more than 100 fire trucks with accompanying firefighters to extinguish; still, it burned more than 8,600 acres. Following that fire, the Chernobyl management team adopted early intervention efforts, such as moving firefighting equipment to the region in advance of fires, that helped mitigate risks.

The team also offered fire-prevention education to workers in and residents living near the region. Those efforts kept the 2021 fire season under control, Kateryna Pavlova, Chernobyl’s Head of the Department for International Cooperation and Public Relations, told the Bulletin. “Last year, we prepared the exclusion zone to [prevent] a big fire, but this year it’s the opposite,” Pavlova said. “We are not prepared.” She added that the wildfires of concern started in March this year, whereas in years past, such fires, including the big one in 2020, started in April.

(snip)

More: https://thebulletin.org/2022/03/wildfires-break-out-in-chernobyl-amid-a-non-functioning-radiation-monitoring-system/

Warpy

(111,261 posts)
16. These hikes have exited the roadway to explore piles of exposed dirt within the forest
Sat Apr 9, 2022, 04:38 PM
Apr 2022

that were likely left over from the burial of all the irradiated trees. I used their meter readings to guesstimate the lowest likely dose of radiation for the poor bastards they had digging those trenches and then spending much of their time in them.

The threshold for radiation death is about 5 Sieverts. 10 Sieverts means certain death. However, the most likely scenario for these poor saps is the one I outlined: symptomatic radiation exposure followed by chronic and severe illness.

The fire danger is well known. While the worst was abated when the original trees and contaminated layer of topsoil were buried, there is still enough contamination in the forest to provide significant risk, especially to firefighters and local populations.

BumRushDaShow

(128,979 posts)
17. Well these guys
Sat Apr 9, 2022, 05:31 PM
Apr 2022

are about to become part of a long term experiment about the effects of "mitigated radiation" based on what they have done and how they were exposed (including for how long).

There were large sets of wildfires there in 2020 (and in 2018) that had quite a bit of reportage due to their proximity to the plant, but that was obviously before the invasion. For example -

2020





This is a seasonal (annual) thing and they know how to handle it. But it's difficult to handle something like a wildfire when you have an invader occupying the area and you are held hostage and kept from any movement outside of where you are being held.

TeamProg

(6,131 posts)
11. This war will be one for the history books! "How To Lose A War For Dumskis And Dumbass"
Fri Apr 8, 2022, 09:23 PM
Apr 2022

I meant, Donbas.. Oooops.

Crunchy Frog

(26,587 posts)
12. I wish them all the very worst. At this point, as far as I'm concerned,
Fri Apr 8, 2022, 09:35 PM
Apr 2022

The only good Russian "soldier" is a dead or disabled one. Disabled or chronically ill is good because it's more expensive for Russia.

Kid Berwyn

(14,904 posts)
18. Mother Russia loves her finest.
Sat Apr 9, 2022, 06:02 PM
Apr 2022


Doesn’t care at all about the conscripts and enlistees in her armed forces, otherwise they’d be in full NBC war kit.
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