Looks like it was hospital staff who turned in TX woman after she miscarried.

[Nevilledog]

Link to tweet

Tweet text:
Melissa Gira Grant
@melissagira
·
Apr 9, 2022
“What we know is that what is alleged is that she was in the hospital and had a miscarriage and divulged some information to hospital staff, who then reported her to the police. And then she was arrested and her bail was set at half a million dollars.”

delapabb.medium.com
My Interview With La Frontera Fund’s Rockie Gonzalez on Lizelle Herrera’s Arrest In Starr County
For more stories from the Rio Grande Valley from Pablo De La Rosa, you can can check out his Linktree here.

Melissa Gira Grant
@melissagira
What we know about Lizelle Herrera’s story and arrest resembles a typical pathway to criminalization of self-managed abortion, based on cases documented by @ifwhenhow and @NAPW: healthcare workers (and sometimes social workers) report someone seeking care to law enforcement
7:46 AM · Apr 9, 2022

https://delapabb.medium.com/my-interview-with-la-frontera-funds-rockie-gonzalez-on-lizelle-herrera-s-arrest-in-starr-county-b7a747068d14

*snip*

Now I’m seeing some conflicting reports locally about what actually happened in this case. I’ve seen some details being shared on social media that I haven’t been able to confirm. We have the police report, but have you or your legal team made contact with anyone related to this?

Not yet. It’s all allegedly at this point in time. What we know is that what is alleged is that she was in the hospital and had a miscarriage and divulged some information to hospital staff, who then reported her to the police. And then she was arrested and her bail was set at half a million dollars.

It’s my understanding that this wouldn’t fall under the purview of the recent SB8 bill. That authorizes people in Texas to sue for what they see as an illegal abortion for statutory damages even before many people can even know they’re pregnant. But it’s created a lot of fear, a lot of anxiety. For people in the medical field who might better understand the situation this creates, it confuses me to think that they’re the ones who went to the police. Why do you think they might have done this now?

Well, what we experience as advocates of reproductive rights, not just abortion–like the human right of all people who have the capacity to get pregnant to make the choices that they want and need for themselves and their families–is a very religious sort of anti reproductive rights stance in the communities in the Rio Grande Valley.

And this is a really big challenge for us with only one abortion clinic that has been a victim of arson and constant, you know, protest by anti-abortion groups who sort of harass clients coming in and out of the one tiny clinic that serves the whole valley. It’s sort of a culture that we are constantly coming up against. And so for us, it’s no surprise that there are hospital staff who may hold those beliefs and who are willing to comply.

*snip*

[LetMyPeopleVote]

1. Protesters at Starr County Jail after Lizelle Herrera's arrest

It is great seeing boots on the ground in Starr County. A protest was organized very quickly and this protest needs to grow

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

https://delapabb.medium.com/my-interview-with-la-frontera-funds-rockie-gonzalez-on-lizelle-herrera-s-arrest-in-starr-county-b7a747068d14

Rockie Gonzalez is the founder and board chairwoman for Frontera Fund which provides financial assistance to low-income women seeking an abortion in the Rio Grande Valley.
She is on a call with me tonight as this story develops.
Rockie, what was Frontera Fund’s initial reaction to hearing about this case.

Well, our first response was to get on the phone together and begin to strategize. This is, as far as we know, one of the first sort of post-SB8 arrests. And we know that it’s a developing story so we don’t have a lot of the details. They’re kind of coming in as we’re monitoring the situation. But currently, we’re assembling all of our legal teams and our allies and other advocates across the states and nationally for support. And so we’re looking at, you know, trying to get in touch with the family and make sure that she has, you know, supportive legal representation, and we are hosting an action outside the Starr County Jail tomorrow to demand her immediate release.....

Frontera Fund has quickly put together a political action in response to this. You’ll be at the Starr County Jail tomorrow morning protesting Herrer’s arrest. What do you hope to communicate to people tomorrow? What message do you want them to take away?

We would like for people to know that it is unjust for medical staff to betray this kind of confidence and that the legislation that Governor Abbott has put forth and tried to push in this state is making it so that innocent people are being harmed. And we want people to know that this type of legislation impacts low income people of color communities the most when state legislators put restrictions on our reproductive rights. It’s not well-to-do people with health insurance that are most impacted. It’s poor people and low in communities, generally from people of color communities who suffer the impacts of these kinds of legislations.

[Demovictory9]

46. excellent

[Wounded Bear]

2. I guess that $10k bounty trumps HIPPA laws and the Hippocratic oath...

[TNNurse]

22. NOTHING

Should overrule HIPPA in most circumstances. We had law enforcement try to get us to let them know when someone was discharged so they could arrest them. If they arrest them in the hospital they are responsible for the bill. I worked for the hospital not law enforcement and worked under HIPPA.

I choose to use "overrule" rather than the one you used and wish people would quit using that word as anything positive when possible. Maybe in card games.

[Skittles]

60. it is HIPAA

fyi

[Liberal In Texas]

3. Talk about a REAL HIPAA violation.

Not some phony baloney you can't ask me if I'm vaccinated nonsense.

The medical staff violated her privacy and confidentiality. I hope she sues the pants off them.

[ZonkerHarris]

10. yup

[struggle4progress]

15. +

[mountain grammy]

17. Agree

[Sanity Claws]

19. Yes!

[Texin]

34. She needs to get Planned Parenthood to work with her on this - and pay her legal fees.

[IronLionZion]

35. HIPAA vs HIPPA

[bluestarone]

36. I believe YOU'RE RIGHT

I hope she gets a good lawyer and gets MEGA BUCKS!!!

[bedazzled]

79. And moves out of Texas

Immediately!

[BlueIdaho]

37. I hope they lose their licenses to practice medicine.

All nurses and doctors involved in this bullshit need to find a new line of employment - away from health care.

[Novara]

39. Exactly

They need to be charged with a HIPAA violation and sued for breaching her privacy.

What this will lead to is any woman having a miscarriage for ANY reason can and likely will be - especially in red states - charged with murder.

These motherfuckers! If they can't "first, do no harm" and if they can't adhere to HIPAA, they need to be permanently barred from the medical field. Period.

[Grins]

62. SUE THEM!! Until they bleed.

[intheflow]

74. Beat me to it.

How is medical staff turning in a patient to the police not a violation of healthcare confidentiality laws, not to mention medical ethics?

[AllaN01Bear]

4. arrested and jailed for a natural event called a misscarrege . umbriago

[sanatanadharma]

7. The crazy team considers all miscarriages to be suspect

Expect many more such "round-up the usual suspects" arrests in the usual suspect states with their extremely unusual weltanschauung.

The crazy team considers all miscarriages to be suspect, you know, because God never makes mistakes, so it must be the woman's fault.

[wnylib]

63. I fully support this woman,

but I think that something is left out in the reporting of what happened.

The report says that she divulged some information to a hospital employee after she went to the hospital for miscarriage. What she divulged is not revealed in the report, but it looks like she might have said that she induced the miscarriage and then the employee reported her.

Either way, whether it was a natural miscarriage or a self-induced one, it is her right to decide whether to terminate the pregnancy or carry it to term.

But until we have more information, it might be better not to assume that the miscarriage was natural.

[EYESORE 9001]

5. Blessed be the fruit

[MissB]

9. Under his eye

It was fiction, not a freaking blueprint, Texas.

[Beartracks]

6. Thank God politicians aren't coming between a patient and her doctors!

Oh, wait. This is Texas.

=========

[MagickMuffin]

8. This will result in women not going to seek medical help should they miscarry

Which could very well cause problems for the woman, now more ways than one.


Such unnecessary trauma created by massive hypnotic drama. Not a good time to be fertile in texas

[FakeNoose]

11. It should result in women under 50 leaving Texas forever

[pinkstarburst]

72. Let's stop being so arrogant

to pretend that all women under 50 are wealthy and privileged enough to make that choice.

If you have the ability to leave your life behind and move to a blue state (which are usually a higher cost of living), get a good paying job, find housing, not have to worry about kids, family, spouse, or any other factors, then you are privileged. Many women are not in that position.

[bucolic_frolic]

12. Hospital staff forced to choose HIPAA violation or failure to report

which is almost aiding and abetting in my limited understanding of the law.

[Nevilledog]

13. There is no mandatory reporting requirement for hospitals & miscarriages. Yet.

[Novara]

42. Right, but how many self-righteous assholes will take it upon themself to report every miscarriage?

[Nevilledog]

51. So long as hospitals and its employees don't mind being sued.

[Rabrrrrrr]

69. For a chance to score $10 grand, almost any MAGAt will report every one, just in case.

And even otherwise ethical/moral people could be quite tempted.

Plus there's also the very real fear that I could understand some medical workers feeling that such laws are so nebulous and nefarious they could very easily be used to attack medical workers, and that a jury of self-righteous prigs might very well say to hell with the law and find them guilty just for the heck of it - so medical workers could feel that they are stuck with the choice of breaking HIPAA and possibly facing some ramifications but likely not, or staying silent and possibly facing massive fines and time in jail.

[Karma13612]

84. Then I say to those concerned

About their “legal” responsibility of reporting pregnant women miscarrying:

Go to the compliance officer in the hospital and ask them.

There should be one point person at the hospital that has a cool head, and knows the law about HIPPA/HIPAA and what is legal versus what is reportable.

Make it a hospital wide policy: No employee reports anything directly to LE.

If a lone rogue staff person is hungry for the $10,000 bounty then if the are caught reporting (valid or not), they are terminated. Otherwise the hospital is going to be open to lawsuits up the whazoo. And said hospital’s insurance rate will hit the stratosphere.

[Crunchy Frog]

14. Would that be a HIPAA violation?

[Rebl2]

26. As far as

I am concerned it is. What happened to confidentiality between dr and patient. Oh I know-$10000.

[Onama Biden Man]

16. The hospital should take the initiative to fire the

worker who reported the patient to the police. This worker should be blackballed from working in the medical field anywhere, and the hospital should be sued. Beto should hold a press conference and address it so voters are aware of what’s going on, and that he is going to fight to protect women's rights if he is elected governor.

[gldstwmn]

27. Here is his Tweet. He is out on the campaign trail so I'm sure he will have more to say.

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=Sfj8V0RkKpqTx-61BGat-g

[3catwoman3]

18. That a busybody neighbor might insert themselves into...

...a woman's reproductive situation is appalling enough.

That someone working in health care should do so is beyond outrageous.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Agreed. I can't see how this isn't a HIPAA violation.

It has to be a violation, don't you think? This is fucking insane! Anytime someone now says, "well, I just don't know what the democrats have done or what they stand for" I am going to point to this bullshit, the "don't say gay" laws, and the appointment of Ketanji Brown Jackson!

If people are worried about "what will the democrats do for me?", it should be restated as "what will the republicans do to you!"!!

[3catwoman3]

38. I don't see how this can NOT be a HIPAA violation.

From HHS:

The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other individually identifiable health information (collectively defined as “protected health information”) and applies to health plans, health care clearinghouses, and those health care providers that conduct certain health care transactions electronically. (emphasis mine)

And from Cornell law school:

See Preemption; constitutional clauses. Article VI, Paragraph 2 of the U.S. Constitution is commonly referred to as the Supremacy Clause. It establishes that the federal constitution, and federal law generally, take precedence over state laws, and even state constitutions. (emphasis theirs)

[Behind the Aegis]

40. I hope she sues the ever-loving shit out them!

By "them", I mean the hospital workers, the hospital, the city, the state, and the fucking POS governor!

[LeftInTX]

43. I read that the fetus was born alive and later died ( 6 mos)

I don't know it's true or not, but that's what I read.

It that's the case, it would not be a HIPAA violation because an infant is involved...

I have no idea it's true. I read on Reddit from someone who lives down there.

I don't feel the mom should be charged

[LiberalFighter]

70. HIPAA covers all individuals connected with medical regardless of age.

[LeftInTX]

41. I read that the infant was born alive

Fetus was 6 months.

(I don't know it's true or not, but that's what I read)

[Piasladic]

49. Where did you read it?

Have you got a reputable link?

[LeftInTX]

50. Reddit and it's not reputable!

So, it's wait and see.

[Nevilledog]

52. Nothing reported supports that. Why do you keep repeating it?

[LeftInTX]

54. I read it on reddit..It could be BS.

However, the Texas snitch law is a civil law...It involves people suing people.....That's why court cases against it don't go anywhere.

This is something else since criminal charges were filed.

[Nevilledog]

55. You've said it's not a reliable source so why post and repeat it?

Article says she had the miscarriage in the hospital.

[LastDemocratInSC]

21. Sounds like a story from El Salvador.

[gldstwmn]

24. They violated HIPAA. She is going to own that hospital.

Right wing Christofacists want their laws without any regard to the multitude of issues they set off in the process. Who is going to pay for the prosecution? No state tax in Texas. Property owners will pay with their increased property taxes I guess. What about the clogging up of the courts with these cases? Governor Abbot didn't mention any of that, did he?

[Joinfortmill]

25. I think there's a law against that.

[gldstwmn]

28. A handy guide on how to prevent abortions:

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=Sfj8V0RkKpqTx-61BGat-g

[DFW]

29. I know a hospital in Texas that needs to fire and blacklist some staff

And it‘s in Starr County.

[Sgent]

30. This is most likely not a HIPAA violation

HIPAA contains a mile wide loophole for reporting to law enforcement if required by law. Unfortunately, this is well established ground where hospitals especially are required to violate patient confidentiality. State laws often provide more protection, but I don't expect much from TX in this matter.

[mnhtnbb]

73. This is exactly right.

Hospitals report all kinds of injuries to police without violating HIPAA, some of which are required, like gun shot wounds and suspected child abuse or endangerment. It would surprise me if the Texas abortion law doesn't have some sort of reporting requirement in it which allows for bypassing HIPAA.

[yardwork]

82. Now that the DA published a statement that no law was broken, the hospital just lost that immunity.

[Sgent]

83. Apparently

TX mandates that any fetal demise over 24weeks be reported.

[yardwork]

85. Geez. Of course TX does. No words.

[xmas74]

87. That's not uncommon.

Most states have something on the books for fetal demise of over 30 weeks or 350 grams.

[Texin]

31. Wouldn't that be considered a violation of the young woman's HIPPA rights?

It might be a good case abortion providers-supporters could (try to) use to go before the courts to see about upending the malicious and misogynistic so-called laws the punish women for exercising their right to abortion, which the last I heard was still the law of the land. Until it's not.

[LeftInTX]

32. I read this on Reddit, so I don't know it's true or not...

I'm not sure why the articles coming out aren't mentioning the full story, but I'm from the area and what happened was she was 6 months pregnant, took (illegal in the US) abortion pills prescribed to her in Mexico to induce labor, then showed up to the emergency room. The baby was born alive and eventually died from the damage caused by the pills, hence the murder charge.

____________________________

If the baby was born alive and then died, it probably wouldn't be a HIPAA violation.

Women get in all sorts of legal trouble for taking drugs when pregnant. (That's a fact! I worked with neonates in the 1990s. Mom's ended up in legal trouble for maternal drug use all the time)

Even if it's true, I don't feel she should have been charged with any crime..but that's what I read.

[mcar]

45. Well, if it's on Reddit

[LeftInTX]

47. I know...

There just isn't anything much info in press releases..They should have provided more info when she was arrested...

[mcar]

53. That is true

it's tragic, in any case.

[Mariana]

58. Is that a good reason to spread rumours from Reddit? nt.

[LeftInTX]

59. But we're also accusing hospital staff of engaging in illegal activity...

Additionally, if anyone wanted to use that crazy Texas law against the mom, they would sue the mom in civil court for $10,000, not report an abortion to a DA.

The part about suing someone in civil court is fact.

[gldstwmn]

61. No one from the hospital has been named.

[yardwork]

57. Of course it's a HIPAA violation. But the law in TX gives cover, encourages this.

[herding cats]

64. Maybe?

The law encourages suing the person, not criminal charges. I'm not at all sure what's going on here yet, but I am skeptical it's related to the ignorant law which was recently passed. It has no standing for legal charges in any way shape or interpretation. I expect they were vague in this instance to lead to this confusion. It seems highly likely at least.

I'm thinking this might be some other previous law on the books (I've not a clue what) being used here. Time will tell, and we'll all know before too much longer.

[sl8]

76. Link?

Would interested in seeing the post history that Redditor has, to get some sense of their credibility.

[LeftInTX]

77. Reddit deleted the thread--They were commenting on the thread

But also I'm seeing this from locals on FB.

This is the indictment. Gives initial of individual.

I worked in newborn and neonatal. If infant dies, they need to report, autopsy etc. Also maternal drug abuse, law enforcement is contacted based on results of maternal tox screen. (Babies are put in foster care until mom is clean)

One thing that won't hold water here is, "Self-induced abortion"...

If infant was born alive, they would probably need to change it to some type of misuse of drug that resulted in death or injury.

I don't support the charges. I'm just stating facts based on what I know and what I was familiar with.

[sl8]

78. Thanks. n/t

[haele]

80. However, if the baby was born alive but died later due to the pills,

There still would be no legal reason to charge her, unless there's some Texas criminal statute on alcohol or drug use during pregnancy causing infant death after birth.
But even then, they wouldn't be talking about a miscarriage, which carries a specific definition and has specific legal conditions attached to that definition - like viability.

If the fetus was viable enough to be able to qualify for state paid NICU support, it would not be considered a miscarriage if it had signs of life after leaving the mother's body.

That reddit post sounds like typical pro-birth hysteria reporting from someone probably claiming to be a nurse at that hospital (or knows a nurse there). Like all the reports of the hundreds of 8 1/2 month late term abortions of "perfect babies" that are supposedly murdered after the fact by evil pro-choice doctors and slutty airhead mothers.

Haele

[mcar]

44. If true, this has got to be a HIPAA violation

I hope she presses charges against the hospital.

[yardwork]

56. This is EXACTLY what happened all the time before Roe v Wade.

[gldstwmn]

65. Even stranger, she went to the hospital in January

but was just arrested in the last few days.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

66. Texas woman faces murder charge after 'self-induced abortion'

The Chroncile have some additional facts. I do not understand how this lady broke the law

Link to tweet

A 26-year-old woman has been charged with murder in Texas after authorities said she caused “the death of an individual by self-induced abortion,” in a state that has the most restrictive abortion laws in the U.S.....

Delgado did not say under what law Herrera has been charged. He said no other information will be released until at least Monday because the case remains under investigation.

Texas law exempts her from a criminal homicide charge for aborting her own pregnancy, University of Texas law professor Stephen Vladeck told The Associated Press.

“(Homicide) doesn’t apply to the murder of an unborn child if the conduct charged is ‘conduct committed by the mother of the unborn child,’” Vladeck said......

A 2021 state law that bans abortions in Texas for women who are as early as six weeks pregnant has sharply curtailed the number of abortions in the state. The law leaves enforcement to private citizens who can sue doctors or anyone who helps a woman get an abortion.

The woman receiving the abortion is exempted from the law.

There is no Texas statute that allows for this lady to be charged This case will be dismissed before it gets to trial or this case will not survive a motion to dismiss

[herding cats]

67. So it's drama on its face?

This is nothing but fodder for the anti-abortion fraction here in Texas? There's obviously no way it has anything to do with this most recent obscene law, due to the criminal charges.

This infuriates me!

[LeftInTX]

68. Here's the Grand Jury indictment

I will keep my thoughts to myself and wait to see further developments. Note initials JAH.

The DA in Starr County is a Democrat.

Texas is very heavy handed when it comes to "fetal harm"...I worked in Newborn...
However, it was almost always maternal drug abuse. Law enforcement would get involved in those cases. Most of the time, parents were at risk of losing their parental rights more than anything .

[artemisia1]

71. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v81PyH5TH-NQ

[Buckeyeblue]

75. As we've discussed on here for years, Republicans want every miscarriage to be

a homicide investigation. Just wait until cristofacist women have to prove they didn't cause their miscarriage. Then they won't think it's so cute.

[LeftInTX]

81. Charges were dropped

The following is part of a statement from District Attorney Gocha Allen Ramirez.

"I reached out to counsel for Ms. Lizelle Herrera to advise him that my office will be filing a motion dismissing the indictment against Ms. Herrera Monday, April 11, 2022. In reviewing applicable Texas law, it is clear that Ms. Herrera cannot and should not be prosecuted for the allegation against her. Going forward, my office will continue to communicate with counsel for Ms. Herrera in order to bring this matter to a close. It is my hope that with the dismissal of this case it is made clear that Ms. Herrera did not commit a criminal act under the laws of the State of Texas



https://abc7.com/texas-news-lizelle-herrera-murder-charges-dropped-self-induced-abortion/11733841/

Link to tweet

/photo/1


Was the DA thinking correctly when he convened a grand jury?
It's up to the DA to know the laws beforehand...

Glad this is over

[LetMyPeopleVote]

86. Five Texas DAs, has issued a statement condemning Texas' efforts to criminalize abortion

These district attorneys make me proud of the legal profession in Texas. I know one of the DAs and he is a good man. These District Attorneys have pledged not to prosecute any women who has an abortion

Link to tweet