How close was the WH Counsel, Pat Cipollone, to the Oval Office on January 6th?

[kentuck]

He is scheduled to talk "informally" to the January 6 Committee today, along with his deputy, Patrick Philbin.

Did he speak with Trump while the insurrection was going on? It was reported early on that he told Mr Trump that he might be arrested on that very day. How serious did he think it was at the time?

As I recall, he held the same position (WH Counsel) that John Dean held when Watergate happened? Just an interesting corollary to me.

The January 6 Committee inches closer and closer to the Oval Office.

[abqtommy]

1. All of the information we've seen so far shows that the January Insurrection and the Big Lie

were not "spontaneous" events. They resulted from conspiracy and I'm tired of waiting
for the top persons involved to be arrested.

[dem4decades]

2. It's disgusting, if DOJ doesn't want to indict Trump, then indict everyone else and jail them.

And have them give detailed testimony how Trump was guilty of a crime but unindicted. And do it before he becomes President again and pardons everyone.

[kentuck]

3. Our government doesn't seem capable of doing what needs to be done.

Many feel that in this instance, "justice delayed is justice denied".

The reserved patience is almost gone. People want a government that works. People want their democracy to work. They want their Justice System to work.

It is nearing time for the DOJ to act. However, this is such a massive investigation by the January 6 Committee, they (DOJ) may feel that public needs to be fully informed before they announce their own investigation into such a huge investigation. They must continue to reassure the American people that justice will be done and that no one is above the law.

Otherwise, who knows what the consequences may bring?

[Johnny2X2X]

4. The burden of proof is extremely high

Because the march to the Capitol, and everything before the violence started was not illegal. Trump can just say, "we wanted them to chant out side of the Capitol to put pressure on the people inside, we had no idea people were going to invade the Capitol." Proving that Trump knew about and directed what happened after they got to the Capitol is next to impossible.

[lagomorph777]

7. Telling people to march to the Capitol and "fight like hell" was illegal.

That was an order to commit insurrection.

[Johnny2X2X]

9. That's not how any court would see it

"Fight like hell" could mean protest like hell. That's not going to be prosecuted. Fight doesn't necessarily mean violence.

Dems will need more, keep digging, I have no doubt there is proof Trump knew the plan was to invade the Capitol and kill people and that he OKed that plan, just have to find the calls, texts etc.

[Firestorm49]

5. "Inches closer". How apt. Time before the mid-terms is running out rapidly.

If this mess doesn’t have a solution that reaffirms the belief that all Americans are to be treated equally under the law, then you might as well shut this investigation down right now.

If we don’t retain the House and Senate, as many predict, all bets are off. The investigations will be quashed and we will see a resurgence of regressive Republican domination. But, maybe that’s what Garland wants - to not get mired in controversy. Easier to be non-controversial …….but then there was Barr who simply didn’t give a shit. He had balls bigger than church bells. (Dabney Coleman)

Have faith!, I hear. Have faith. Well, seeing is believing and time is running out. Are these guys trying to convince me that many rulings coming out of either the committee or the DOJ won’t be appealed? That, my fiend is a stall tactic. Am I to believe that a former President can’t be indicted? Are we supposed to believe what we are being force fed by the media, that Autocracy is the new reality? We already know that we are an oligarchy just like Russia.

Garland, get the fuck going? He’s got the staff. He has the evidence. He’s had it for months.

Tempus fugit. Dot the I’s, cross the T’s. Move this thing along now!

[kentuck]

6. I think the DOJ is looking at it much like a RICO case?

Building the case from the bottom up.

[lagomorph777]

8. John Gotti would still be at large, if his case were handled this way.

[Ohio Joe]

10. Gotti as first charged with RICO in 1986...

He was finally nailed for racketeering, murder and other charges in 1992... After flipping Gravano and some other smaller time players. When the feds went directly after him, he was able to get off, it was not until they built the charges properly, they he was finally put away for life.

[lagomorph777]

11. In 6 years, we will be Russia or North Korea.

We don't have that much time.

[Ohio Joe]

12. So... What? Bring charges that won't stick?

They tried going directly after Gotti starting in the 70's... At best he got little slaps but kept going. It's how he became known as the Teflon Don. I grew up in the area, Gotti was a legend. Everyone 'knew' he was guilty of being a murderous mob boss, he flaunted it. Proving it in court was a different animal. It was not until they got serious about treating the whole mess as a mob case in late 1990 that they finally nailed him.

We are on our seventh Grand Jury for 1/6 in just over a year... You can see the first six (some are still going on) details here:

https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/04/11/the-valentines-day-massacre-how-doj-lost-lucas-denney-and-found-enrique-tarrio/

At the bottom of the article, it shows who each one indicted with links to indictments (the bulk of the grunts are thrown together and not linked to all 700+ indictments, only bigger fish are). All of this was required to build the foundation of sedition so that the inner circle and perhaps even TFG could be gone after with the latest Grand Jury... Without it, nothing sticks.

IMO, doing it correctly the first time instead of jerking around with bullshit charges they could not prove in court is the fastest way to get to TFG.

[lagomorph777]

13. Bring the easy charges first; bring more charges as each becomes proveable.

Keep the bastard in court for the rest of his days (if not in jail).

He committed hundreds of crimes. He should face hundreds of trials.

[Ohio Joe]

14. There are no easy charges against a mob boss...

You also run up against the same issue they have with charging Meadows with contempt. Yeah... They could do it and certainly get a conviction... That gets him maybe 2 months jail but more likely probation and in return they have to give him all evidence they have built up. Makes zero sense to bring that charge now.

Right now, the best chance for a small charge against him is in the Georgia state Grand Jury looking into interfering in the state election. This one should be do-able but... Even that is a tough sell as the repugs who opposed him then are refusing to cooperate and doing everything they can to stonewall it, and repugs still run a lot of Georgia. They may not have wanted to cheat the election for him but they don't want to help indict him either.

Like I said... There are no easy charges against a mob boss.

[lagomorph777]

15. Can't disagree.

But it's scary as hell. As long as the ringleaders are at large, we are in grave danger.