Covid infections are up by 68%, over the past two weeks, in my county

[Siwsan]

Genesee County, MI.

I see no end to this. I'm SO glad I bought those boxes of masks. Despite what people say of the effectiveness of wearing a mask when others aren't, wearing one does keep my from touching my face until I can hand sanitize and/or wash my hands.

[Lucky Luciano]

1. Hospitalizations so far not picking up which is great though.

Even in Manhattan where there is a BA2 uptick as well. It lags of course, but I think we are past the period where the uptick should have begun. Hopefully, hospitalizations really do not increase any further.

[AntivaxHunters]

18. This is incorrect. Hospital rates are up

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=9Mva9PBt0Nivy8pSgzfvPA

[Lucky Luciano]

21. Fair enough, but I don't count the eligible unvaccinated. They deserve what they get.

Do you have a breakdown by vaccination status?

I was going by NYC which is well vaccinated.

[AntivaxHunters]

23. That's not right of you to do though

because you aren't considering those who CAN'T be vaccinated. There are millions of immunocompromised people who are unable to be vaccinated and young children too.

Please keep those folks in mind. And remember, nobody is asking upon check in to the ED "what political affiliation are you?"
People entering the ED come from all walks of life, let's not judge because we don't know their story.

The best Covid tracker I have seen to date is definitely the SmartNews Covid tracker.
It's incredibly informative.

Also please remember, that HHS and the CDC changed how Covid is reported.

[nitpicker]

43. Some people have limited access to vaccinations

Besides the under-5s and those that can't get immunity via vaccinations:

There are those who need to have house calls to get shot up.

And those not qualified for house calls who need to balance taking a bus ride home versus spending extra money to go to drugstore.

[Hortensis]

57. Also, carriers infect others. Right. We shouldn't copy antivaxxers

in "forgetting" the genuinely evil dynamic at play here. Power seeking and factional malice is how the right, and plentiful useful idiots, turned an initially stoppable pandemic into a politically driven holocaust with over a million dead in the U.S. alone and more every day.

[empedocles]

2. Genesse/Flint may be good at testing the water. May provide some advance clues

on what is happening with Covids.

[SheltieLover]

3. Masks are quite effective even if only one person wearing one

Depending upon the type of mask & whether it has a tight fit!

Not giving up my N-95's anytime soon!

Stay safe!

[Lovie777]

4. BA.2 (BA.2.1 & BA.2.2) . . ..

Hopefully the original Omicron diluted Delta and other variants, that is the ways it seems to date, but we shall see.

Wearing mask is still very important and I surely do keep wearing them.

[BumRushDaShow]

10. Apparently BA.2.12.1 (for places that actually do subtyping, like in NY, but sadly not many others )

New versions of Omicron variant make gains against BA.2

by Brenda Goodman, CNN

Updated 7:02 PM ET, Tue April 19, 2022


(CNN) Arguably the most successful version of the Omicron coronavirus variant to date has been BA.2 -- but it hasn't been resting on its laurels. BA.2 has been picking up mutations, sometimes shifting into sleeker and, incredibly, even faster versions of itself. Global variant trackers have found 21 viral offspring associated with BA.2. Most of these look like underachievers, with mutations of little consequence. But two of these offshoots -- BA.2.12.1 and BA.2.12 -- have been fueling a rise in Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations in central New York state. And one of them, BA.2.12.1, is outpacing BA.2 in other regions, too.

New data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that BA.2.12.1 caused 19% of new Covid-19 infections in the US last week, up from an estimated 11% of cases the week before and 7% the week before that. The speed at which BA.2.12.1 is outpacing BA.2 is roughly as fast as BA.2 outcompeted its cousin BA.1, according to Trevor Bedford, an epidemiologist and genomic scientist at the University of Washington's School of Public Health.

Though BA.2 is still very much around, it's lost some ground. Last week, it caused an estimated 74% of Covid-19 cases, according to the CDC data, down from nearly 76% percent the week before. Together, BA.2 and BA.2.12.1 accounted for an estimated 93% of new Covid-19 cases in the US last week. "BA.2.12.1 has increased rapidly in proportion in the US compared to other BA.2 sublineages," especially in the region that includes New York and New Jersey, CDC spokesperson Kristen Nordlund said in an email.

New sublineages emerge

Last week, the New York State Department of Health alerted residents to the new sublineages, warning that they were spreading about 25% faster than BA.2 and were causing Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations to increase, particularly in the central part of the state. It urged New Yorkers to "act swiftly" to consider wearing masks, to get booster vaccine doses, to get tested if they had symptoms and to seek treatment if infected.

(snip)

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/19/health/ba-2-12-1-takes-on-ba-2/index.html

There are also higher incidences of "re-infections". There was a suggestion in one of the articles I read this morning that this combo of variants may be a Canadian/U.S.-derived mutation (which is why there is a higher appearance of it in parts of NY state near the border with Canada.

[wnylib]

37. Isn't it possible that there might be an advantage

to the omicron variants knocking out the other ones? As long as it remains dominant due to its high transmission rate, that makes it more possible to develop a vaccine that specifically targets omicron. Once a vaccine is available for omicron and a couple of its variants, the vaccines might be more effective, even against new omicron variants, because of their related genetic structure.

Just trying to be hopeful.

I also wonder if the continual development of new strains has happened in other viral pandemics. It's not unusual for a pandemic to last 2 years and to come and go in waves during that time. It happened with the 1918 and the 1957-58 flu pandemics. But we didn't have the ability to map them genetically like we can today. Covid is in its 3rd year now, but that's partly due to increased global commerce and travel today. A virus today can spread farther and faster than in the past, infecting more people and creating more opportunities for variants to develop.

[BumRushDaShow]

39. The vaccine makers have been working on ones that would try to deal with Omicron

But they still have to go through the motions of clinical trials and time spent gathering data, etc., before being able to request an EUA (or possibly an amendment to the BLA) for the new version.

During their initial data releases, Pfizer found there was not much difference in response with their "targeted" booster vs just another boost from their original vaccine.

One of the things these SARS viruses can do with mutations is change the configurations of proteins along the spikes that can effectively "hide" portions that our antibodies would normally attach to, making it harder to grab them and clear them from the body.

Meanwhile Moderna recently announced a reformulated vaccine that includes targeting critical sites on multiple previous variants - notably the Beta one (that didn't really take hold here in the U.S.) and in doing so, they managed to have that one produce a good response against both Delta and Omicron too. So that is some good news (I am a Moderna recipient for the 2 initial doses and a booster).

I think at this point, they are also focused on getting the data on boosting the 5 - 11 group and at some point, getting the infants/toddlers vaccine data for approval of initial doses because those age groups really got hit hard with Omicron much much worse than any previous variant.

And regarding new strains, as I have read, the original Influenza strain from 1918 is actually still circulating, but since it has been a century since that hit and so many Influenza strains are out there now that would dwarf whatever little is around of the 1918 one, that it wouldn't make much difference.

[wnylib]

41. I had the Asian flu in the 1957-58 pandemic.

Had a soaring temp (105.6) and developed a kidney infection. I was 8 years old.

A variant strain of it developed in the early 1970s. I forget the name it was given, but when I got it, I fought it off within 2 days compared to the 7 days that I had its parent strain. Presumably that was due to antibodies from prior exposure.

I think that covid might take a generation or more to die out or become less severe. The most vulnerable people die. Survivors have the genetic makeup to fight it off. Like the plague took centuries to stop being a threat.

[BumRushDaShow]

48. Well the influenza viruses are configured and act differently than SARS CoV2

(sorry in advance for the below TMI )



And COVID-19 uses those spikes in a wild way to attach (like grappling hooks) to what would become a host cell and then does all sorts of wild chemical reactions to burst into that host cell (which could be located in the lungs or on a kidney, etc) and reproduce. Then on its way out, the babies make it so that the body's defenses have a hard time getting to the infected cell to clear it. It literally does a "MacGyver" to a cell to get in, reproduce, and then get out.






This is the image I continue to find wild (what I call "the grappling hooks" that pull it to the cell that it has attached to) -





This is what really differentiates it from the flu. With the variants of COVID changing what the spike looks like including "hiding" the changes from antibodies due to the new types of proteins that make up the spike, folding themselves over in a certain way to block those newly-changed segments from being accessed by antibodies, it makes it harder to fight.

And with respect to "the plague" - well that is caused by a bacteria and not a virus (bacteria are much bigger in size when compared to viruses), so once antibiotics were discovered and refined, that was pretty much the end of "the plague" (in humans)! That's why it stopped being "a threat" (as long as someone who is infected can get the antibiotics for it). I know it is still appearing in some areas like the west and southwest - including in places like CO or TX where there may be prairie dogs infected with it, and can pass it on.

[wnylib]

49. Yes, I'm aware that the Plague was caused by bacteria, not a virus.

I only used the Plague as an example of the Darwinian aspect of diseases that a population has had no prior exposure to. The ones capable of biologically surviving it (leaving out for the moment those whose genetics could survive it but whose living circumstances, like malnutrition, etc. weaken them) will have descendants who inherit whatever genetic immune strength against the disease they have. Those who aren't able to fight off the disease and survive will have fewer, or no descendants. So in a few generations, the disease will be less able to get a foothold in previously exposed populations. Unless it is caused by a virus that mutates enough to get past the immune system in previously exposed people, which the covid coronavirus seems able to do.

I've read that some people who have had a definite exposure to covid lasting more than a few minutes don't test positive and seem to be immune. That, plus the variations in the degree of illness and recovery make me wonder about a genetic factor in who gets a really bad case or who gets long covid. I know that specific comorbidities are factors, but what about the variations in people who do not have those issues?

I have always, since childhood, been more susceptible to viral infections than most people. I used to joke that if a virus showed up on the opposite side of town from me at midnight, it would find me by morning. And, it would cause a worse case of illness in me than in most people. If I get a cold or flu, it always, without exception, turns into viral bronchitis that triggers multiple asthma attacks until I get over it with help from a Z Pak.

Couple questions since you seem to be knowledgeable on the covid coronavirus. Hypertension is a factor in being vulnerable to a serious case of covid. But I take Losartan which controls it well. I read that people who take Losartan have a 40% reduced chance of a bad covid case if they do get it since Losartan is an ACE inhibitor. True that Losartan reduces the seriousness of an infection?

What about people with an autoimmune disorder, but are not taking steroids for it? Would the inflammation from an autoimmune disorder make it more likely that, IF infected, it could require hospitalization? Diabetics are vulnerable and that is an autoimmune disorder. What about other autoimmune conditions like rheumatoid arthritis or Hasimoto's?

[BumRushDaShow]

59. If you think about it

with respect to some of the old diseases - like TB and Leprosy (the latter nowadays called "Hansen's Disease" and both caused by bacteria), although not eradicated, they have been controllable. But you have the old viruses like Smallpox and Yellow Fever and with these, the former was one where quite a bit of effort was put into place around the world to completely eradicate it, and it became one of the earliest infections that prompted the concept of the use of a "vaccine" to help the body fight it (in terms of purposely giving someone small amounts of it to trigger an immune response). Another that got such an international effort was Polio to try to eradicate that (and for the most part it has been except for recently, when a mutated form has been found). But then some like Yellow Fever continue to require "boosters" due to the waning immunity and its vector for spread has generally been via mosquitoes.

I think at some point, the long-term goal is to reduce the spread which reduces the mutations and that is harder to do with the respiratory viruses like flu, RSV, and now COVID-19 due to how they can move through the air.

And regarding those with "bullet proof" immune systems - I think they will always be an enigma IMHO. These are people who claim that "they never had a cold" (and "colds" are caused by a myriad of rhino and/or coronaviruses) or flu. So it's possible that there are a subset of people whose immune systems can clear infections rapidly, but they have rarely been in comprehensive studies to determine a "how and why".

BUT they are now starting to look at some of these folks - particularly those who live in households where all but one might have contracted the virus,and a couple studies have found that it might be due to those who had prevoius coronavirus-laden "colds" (vs the more typical rhinoviruses) that triggered the creation and infusion of T-cells that might have been protective -

- https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/03/why-do-some-people-get-covid-while-others-dont.html
- https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/07/stanford-study-ties-milder-covid-19-symptoms-to-prior-run-ins-wi.html

And with respect to your questions about inflammation - and this might answer some of the other questions - I actually found an article last week (posted in this thread) that might not only be the answer to why the severity for some people and not others, but it could even be applicable to the effects of other viruses -

Inflammatory Insights
Study reveals how COVID-19 triggers severe immune response

By NANCY FLIESLER | Boston Children’s April 6, 2022 Research


Illustration of a macrophage battling bacteria. Image: urfingus/iStock/Getty Images Plus


This article is part of Harvard Medical School’s continuing coverage of COVID-19.

A study led by researchers at Harvard Medical School and Boston Children’s Hospital explains for the first time why COVID-19 causes severe inflammation in some people, leading to acute respiratory distress and multi-organ damage. Surprisingly, the study also finds that antibodies that people develop when they contract COVID-19 sometimes lead to more inflammation, while antibodies generated by mRNA COVID-19 vaccines seem not to. Findings were published April 6 in Nature. The team was led by Judy Lieberman, HMS professor of pediatrics at Boston Children’s; Caroline Junqueira, HMS research associate in pediatrics at Boston Children’s; and Michael Filbin, HMS assistant professor of emergency medicine at Massachusetts General Hospital.

“We wanted to understand what distinguishes patients with mild versus severe COVID-19,” said Lieberman. “We know that many inflammatory markers are elevated in people with severe disease, and that inflammation is at the root of disease severity, but we hadn’t known what triggers the inflammation.”

Fiery death of immune cells

The investigators analyzed fresh blood samples from patients with COVID-19 coming to the emergency department at Mass General. They compared these with samples from healthy people and from patients with other respiratory conditions. They also looked at lung autopsy tissue from people who had died from COVID-19. They found that SARS-CoV-2 can infect monocytes—immune cells in the blood that act as sentinels or early responders to infection—as well as macrophages, similar immune cells in the lungs. Once infected, the team found, both types of cells die a fiery death called pyroptosis that releases an explosion of powerful inflammatory alarm signals. “In the infected patients, about 6 percent of blood monocytes were dying an inflammatory death,” said Lieberman. “That’s a large number to find, because dying cells are rapidly eliminated from the body.”

Examining the lung tissue from people who died from COVID-19, they found that about a quarter of the macrophages in the tissue were dying. When the researchers studied the cells for signs of SARS-CoV-2, they found that about 10 percent of monocytes and 8 percent of lung macrophages were infected. The fact that monocytes and macrophages can be infected with SARS-CoV-2 was a surprise, since monocytes don’t carry ACE2 receptors, the classic entry portal for the virus, and macrophages have low amounts of ACE2. Lieberman thinks SARS-CoV-2 infection of monocytes might have previously been missed in part because researchers often study frozen blood samples, in which dead cells do not show up.


More: https://hms.harvard.edu/news/inflammatory-insights

The "Nature" magazine publication of this is here - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04702-4

They found that the SARS CoV2 virus was able to directly attack some of the "first responders" of the immune system and the result can cause a near-catastrophic set of processes that not only destroys those cells, but when doing so, they release chemicals in the body that cause high levels of additional inflammation. They indicated that this was unexpected because this phenomena was previously undetected due to the standard means for testing and for sample storage (freezing) that would have made it difficult to actually find what were the "carcasses" of the immune system left behind. I.e., the tests were designed to detect "live" cells that would reanimate when thawed, but would miss any dead ones, and the presence of destroyed cells (and which types) was actually needed for quantification to determine what is actually happening.

This type of thing seems to suggest that since it doesn't happen "universally", it could be an outcome if someone's genetics has created a variant army of cells that make up an immune response, that is more prone to attack, and if some of those variant immune cells are destroyed, they can produce an excess of agents that cause the heightened inflammation beyond what occurs with other people.

I would think this might have some ramifications regarding long-COVID and why some get it and others don't.

With some of the auto-immune diseases like HIV or Rheumatoid Arthritis, these are conditions where (at least definitely in the former), the virus actually attacks the immune system. And believe it or not, at least one of the new treatments for COVID-19 actually uses one of the "cocktail" drugs used to treat HIV - Pfizer's Paxlovid that uses ritonavir. In the latter disease, it has been speculated that RA (something one of my sisters has had for over 20 years) can also be caused by some viral or bacterial infection that triggers an abnormal immune response.

In the case of HIV, which is a retrovirus, it can reprogram cells to do the attacking and something I just read this morning included some initial research about fragments of SARS CoV2 being potentially able to do some retrovirus-like reactions - https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2105968118

And since you mention propensity to pick up any kind of virus, my sis who has RA also had chronic tonsillitis through her childhood to the point when finally, as a teen, she ended up getting her tonsils removed. She also had bad allergies. So I think there is definitely some kind of genetic thing going on there!

And as a sidenote to the ACE2 inhibitors (I actually take lisinopril myself), they have so far found little or no impact of those medicines on how COVID-19 behaves (e.g., noted here) - probably because those meds are targeting the "circulating (shed) " enzyme that can cause inflammation and narrowing of the blood vessels, whereas it is normally found "stationary" in certain organs (previously mentioned like the lungs, heart, kidneys etc) and the "receptors" are where COVID-19 will attach. But due to the complex mechanisms, some of those inhibitors can also enhance the presence of ACE2 elsewhere (possibly at the stationary locations giving the virus more opportunities to attach), which would ultimately produce a "stalemate" of sorts - helping in some cases and possibly hurting in others.

So there continues to be more calls to research it a bit more.

[wnylib]

64. Thanks. Very interesting. My childhood

was similar to your sister's in regard to tonsillitis and allergies. I had chronic tonsillitis and my tonsils and adenoids were removed when I was 6. I had pneumonia at age 1 month and was hospitalized for it. My first diagnosed allergy was cow's milk. Not lactose intolerance, but a true allergy. Over the years, I acquired more allergies until, when I was in my 30s and had allergy testing done, I went into anaphylaxis from the injections I was tested with. (The doctor tested 60 substances at once, 30 in each arm. I was positive for all but 3.) The allergies include several categories: pollen, foods, scents, medicines, skin contact (metals and some plants).

Fortunately, I do not have HIV or rheumatoid arthritis, but I do have Hashimoto's hypothyroidism. It might be coincidental, but it was diagnosed shortly after a bout with the flu. I know that Hashimoto's apparently has a genetic factor. My mother (who also had chronic multiple allergies) developed it in later life. So did my sister. But I have not been able to find any information on whether Hashimoto's contributes to a more severe case of covid. All I have found so far simply says that it does not make people more susceptible to getting covid. Nothing about what happens if we do get covid.

Regarding long term viral inflammatory effects, I did develop polymyalgia rheumatica after a very bad, repeated reinfection of viral bronchitis one winter 8 years ago. It took 2 years of Prednisone to get over the crippling effects.

So, due to my history with viruses and asthmatic reactions to bronchitis, plus multiple allergies, and an autoimmune disorder, I have assumed that I am at risk for severe covid if I did get it. Consequently, I am vaccinated, double boosted (Moderna each time), wear an N95 indoors in public places, and maintain social distancing. But my doctor blew off my concerns as excessive psychological fear. (She also misdiagnosed the PMR as "mild" arthritis. Later, a PA in the office recognized the classic PMR symptoms when the doc was on leave and treated it successfully.)

So, yeah, I need a new doctor, but maybe my medical history really does not put me at higher risk of severe covid. Thing is, I can't know for sure unless I get it and that's a risk I do not want to take. Age (70s) is not in my favor, either.

[BumRushDaShow]

78. It definitely sounds like quirks in the immune system

and IIRC my sis may have also contracted mono as a teen, where that Epstein-Barr virus has been shown to potentially triggered the RA.

And in that case too, something I just found is that that there is a risk factor of EBV and COVID that has been found with those experiencing long-COVID -

Pathogens. 2021 Jun; 10(6): 763.
Published online 2021 Jun 17. doi: 10.3390/pathogens10060763
PMCID: PMC8233978
PMID: 34204243
Investigation of Long COVID Prevalence and Its Relationship to Epstein-Barr Virus Reactivation

Jeffrey E. Gold,1,* Ramazan A. Okyay,2 Warren E. Licht,3 and David J. Hurley4

Lisa Gralinski, Academic Editor

Author information Article notes Copyright and License information Disclaimer
This article has been cited by other articles in PMC.
Associated Data

Data Availability Statement

Abstract

Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) patients sometimes experience long-term symptoms following resolution of acute disease, including fatigue, brain fog, and rashes. Collectively these have become known as long COVID. Our aim was to first determine long COVID prevalence in 185 randomly surveyed COVID-19 patients and, subsequently, to determine if there was an association between occurrence of long COVID symptoms and reactivation of Epstein–Barr virus (EBV) in 68 COVID-19 patients recruited from those surveyed. We found the prevalence of long COVID symptoms to be 30.3% (56/185), which included 4 initially asymptomatic COVID-19 patients who later developed long COVID symptoms. Next, we found that 66.7% (20/30) of long COVID subjects versus 10% (2/20) of control subjects in our primary study group were positive for EBV reactivation based on positive titers for EBV early antigen-diffuse (EA-D) IgG or EBV viral capsid antigen (VCA) IgM. The difference was significant (p < 0.001, Fisher’s exact test). A similar ratio was observed in a secondary group of 18 subjects 21–90 days after testing positive for COVID-19, indicating reactivation may occur soon after or concurrently with COVID-19 infection. These findings suggest that many long COVID symptoms may not be a direct result of the SARS-CoV-2 virus but may be the result of COVID-19 inflammation-induced EBV reactivation.

(snip)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8233978/

So anyone who has some of these other previous "dormant" viruses could potentially have them "reactivate" if the "let it rip" happens and they suffer not just from COVID itself, but from some conditions that had been in remission. This includes another I just found -

Adults Over 50 Who Get COVID-19 Have Increased Risk of Shingles


Older adults who contract COVID-19 also may be at higher risk of developing shingles, a viral illness caused by the chickenpox virus. Experts say weakening of the immune system by the novel coronavirus can trigger an outbreak of shingles, which typically lies dormant for years after a case of chickenpox, which is caused by the varicella-zoster virus.

A study published by researchers affiliated with pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline — which makes the shingles vaccine ShingrixTrusted Source as well as developing vaccines and monoclonal antibody treatments for COVID-10 — found that participants over age 50 who had the novel coronavirus were at a 15 percent higher risk of developing shingles. Researchers were following up on anecdotal reports of shingles cases closely following COVID-19 cases. The study drew on the medical records of nearly 2 million people with and without COVID-19. The researchers said individuals who required hospitalization for COVID-19 had a 21 percent higher risk of contracting shingles.

The elevated risk of shingles among people who’ve had COVID-19 only seemed to last for the first six months after contracting the disease, according to researchers led by Amit Bhavsar, the director of clinical research and development at GlaxoSmithKline. “More than half of the described HZ cases occurred within 1 week after COVID-19 diagnosis or hospitalization, but some cases were also reported after 8–10 weeks,” the study authors wrote. “All kinds of illnesses can trigger shingles,” Dr. Linda Yancey, an infectious disease expert at Memorial Hermann Health System in Houston, told Healthline.

She noted that varicella-zoster virus is in the same family as herpes, Epstein-Barr, and Cytomeglo virus, which can cause mononucleosis. “Once we pick up any of these viruses they stay with us for a lifetime and can reactivate when we are under stress,” said Yancey. “As we age, our immune systems age as well and it becomes easier for the virus to reactivate and cause a shingles outbreak. Any illness, including COVID, can cause a shingles outbreak. So, this is a very expected result.”

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/adults-over-50-who-get-covid-19-have-increased-risk-of-shingles

And THEN you have this (I heard this on the radio (news) several days ago -

April 22, 2022
5:33 AM EDT
Last Updated a day ago

Explainer: Scientists investigate hepatitis outbreak in children in Europe, US

By Jennifer Rigby and Natalie Grover



LONDON, April 22 (Reuters) - Health authorities around the world are investigating a mysterious increase in severe cases of hepatitis - inflammation of the liver – in young children. Below is a summary of what is known about the outbreak. More than 130 cases have been identified, with the majority in Britain, which has reported 108 cases since January. Other countries including the United States, Israel, Denmark, Ireland, the Netherlands and Spain have also reported smaller numbers of cases. Mild paediatric hepatitis is not unheard of, but the cases first raised the alarm in Scotland, on April 6, because children were very sick. Several have even needed liver transplants.

The other concern was that the cases were not linked to the typical viruses usually linked to the condition – hepatitis A, B, C, D and E. "This is still a very low number of cases, but they are children, that is the main concern, and the other thing is the severity," said Maria Buti, a hepatology professor from Barcelona and chair of the European Association of the Study of the Liver's public health committee, who has been following the outbreak closely with the European Centre for Disease Control (ECDC).

The leading theory is viral infection, probably with an adenovirus – a common family of viruses that can cause the common cold, among other conditions. One kind of adenovirus commonly causes acute gastroenteritis, and there have been reports of it causing hepatitis in immunocompromised children, but never previously in healthy children. Public Health Scotland's director, Jim McMenamin, said work was underway to establish if the adenovirus involved had mutated to cause more severe disease, or if it could be causing the problems "in tandem" with another virus, including possibly SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

He said 77% of the children in Britain had tested positive for adenovirus. It is also possible that a novel pathogen may be involved, or exposure to a toxin, but the geographic spread of cases suggested infection was a more likely explanation, scientists said.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/scientists-investigate-hepatitis-outbreak-children-europe-us-2022-04-22/

Health
CDC issues nationwide alert about mysterious hepatitis cases in kids
By Lena H. Sun and Ariana Eunjung Cha

April 21, 2022|Updated yesterday at 10:29 a.m. EDT


The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a nationwide health alert Thursday about an unusual cluster of serious hepatitis cases in young children for which the cause, or causes, is not known. Federal health officials and the Alabama Department of Public Health are investigating nine cases of hepatitis in children 1-to-6 years old who were hospitalized between October 2021 and February 2022 with significant liver injury. All of the children were previously healthy, officials said, and two required liver transplants. There are no reported deaths.

CDC’s alert is to notify physicians and public health authorities nationwide to be on the lookout for symptoms and report suspected cases. None of the children were hospitalized because of a coronavirus infection, officials said. The children were from across the state and officials have found no epidemiological link connecting them. North Carolina also had two cases in school-age children, neither of whom needed a liver transplant and subsequently recovered, according to North Carolina Department of Health spokesperson Bailey Pennington. No cause has been found and no common exposures were identified.

State officials are working with the state’s poison control center and epidemiologists to look for potential cases, Pennington said in an email. The U.S. cases come after European counterparts reported an unusual outbreak of severe hepatitis in dozens of previously healthy children — also without a known cause. Symptoms of hepatitis, or inflammation of the liver, include fever, fatigue, loss of appetite, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, dark urine, light-colored stools, joint pain and jaundice. Officials are investigating a possible association between pediatric hepatitis and adenovirus, a family of viruses that causes a range of infections, most commonly respiratory illnesses.

“At this time, adenovirus may be the cause for these, but investigators are still learning more, including ruling out other possible causes and identifying other possible contributing factors,” the CDC said in a statement. All nine children in Alabama tested positive for adenoviruses, which are spread by respiratory droplets and touching infected people or virus on surfaces. Adenoviruses most commonly cause respiratory illnesses, but they can also cause inflammation of the stomach. The virus rarely causes hepatitis.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/04/21/hepatitis-children-adenovirus-unknown/

^^^Come on guys! What was going on between October 2021 and February 2022??????

Omicron caused "record numbers of infections and hospitalizations" in children and now you have a Hep A outbreak... "in children".

So I think the bottom line is that anyone who may have had some of these viruses that stay with "forever", it's possible that COVID-19 can wake any or all of them all up.

[wnylib]

83. Sure looks like there is a connection between covid and

the hepatitis outbreak in children across national boundaries.

As a child in grade school, I was exposed to hepatitis, but don't know for sure if I ever had it. I used to spend a couple weeks each summer with an aunt and uncle who had a rural home on 10 acres. They also had a pool, a creek, and woods on their land so it was a fun summer vacation for a city kid.

But one summer, after I returned home, my aunt called to say that she had hepatitis and had probably exposed me to it. Our family doctor gave me a gammaglobulin shot, just in case. I do not remember getting sick or having any symptoms.

Years later, in my 20s, I was in a hospital for a series of tests. An X Ray technician asked me when I had had hepatitis. I said never as far as I knew and asked why he had asked me about it. He clammed up and said to ask my doctor. But, I had other concerns at the time and forgot to mention it to my doctor, who never brought it up himself.

But these hepatitis cases are being found only in children. If it is related to covid, I wonder why it has not shown up in adults. Could it be a new or mutated virus, independent of covid?

[BumRushDaShow]

84. That should hopefully be something for to really need to dive into

since the main "similarity" that they are citing is that something like 70% of the children were testing positive for some sort of adenovirus. And although some COVID-19 vaccine makers use neutralized adenoviruses as a base vector for creating the vaccines, the age group most impacted was not eligible to be vaccinated (and were thus unvaccinated). But then the article goes on to say that adenoviruses don't usually cause hepatitis. It makes you wonder if maybe there is something that the later SARS CoV2 variants might be doing that triggers susceptibility to some mutated adenovirus.

They may need to look for that in adults now...

Seems similar to how during the early part of the pandemic, they slowly began to find what they called MIS-C (Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children) could occur in children after a COVID-19 infection. They subsequently noted that it can happen in adults as well (more common in young adults).

[wnylib]

85. I heard about MIS-C in children soon after

it was found in NY. Did not know that adults have had it, too.

SARS CoV 2 certainly is a complex and far reaching virus in its effects on people. It will take years, maybe decades, to know its full effects.

[2naSalit]

5. I have a small stash...

About six weeks ago the grocery store had boxes of N95 masks at the entrance and asked that you only take three at a time. I grab three each time I went over a two week period so I have those plus a package I bought earlier in the paint dept. at the True Value.

[llmart]

6. I'm not surprised.

I predicted this would start showing up right after all the Easter travel. It's not like I'm some sort of seer or brilliant scientist. I also predicted that air fares would at least double in the spring for spring breaks and Easter holiday.

I find that the absolutely best way to avoid Covid is to become a hermit.

[SoonerPride]

7. Case counts are meaningless.

Vaccinated people will be fine.

Let me know when hospitalizations of vaccinated individuals surge.

[phylny]

11. How does that work for infants and children?

[SoonerPride]

24. It works just fine.

Infants and children are not the demographic threatened by Covid.

[phylny]

27. Okay.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-in-babies-and-children

"Coronavirus variants, including the very contagious omicron variant, continue to spread, particularly in areas with low rates of community COVID-19 vaccination and among populations such as children under 5 who cannot yet be vaccinated.

"For children too young to be vaccinated (and adults who have not received coronavirus vaccines) it is important to follow proven COVID-19 precautions such as mask wearing when in public, indoor places to reduce the chance of becoming infected with the coronavirus.

“'Indoor activities are riskier than outdoor activities, but risk can be reduced by masking, distancing, hand washing, and improved ventilation,' Milstone says. Parents and caregivers should understand that children infected with the coronavirus can develop complications requiring hospitalization, and can transmit the virus to others.

"In rare cases, children infected with the coronavirus can develop a serious lung infection and become very sick with COVID-19, and deaths have occurred. That’s why it is important to use precautions and prevent infection in children as well as adults."

[SoonerPride]

29. In "rare cases."

Thanks for proving the point.

[phylny]

31. "Infants and children are not the demographic threatened by Covid."

Not what I just read.

[SoonerPride]

32. I guess we can disagree on what constitutues acceptable risk.

[wnylib]

35. It said that deaths were rare, not that

infections were rare. Every covid infection, whether child or adult, and whether the case is mild, asymptomatic, or serious, can cause permanent organ damage to kidneys, lungs, or heart. It can also cause long lasting cognitive problems. Not a good way for children to start out in life or in school.

[Ms. Toad]

54. Thank you.

I'm so exhausted by people who apparently believe that as long as there isn't hospitalization or death that COVID is innocuous. From what we know in two short years of existence - it isn't. And there will be more learning to come as we begin to collect long-term data.

[wnylib]

68. Alas, my doctor is among those people,

so I am looking for a new one.

I fear that in the future, there will be several medical disorders in the general population as an aftereffect of covid. Viruses are like that. Many people who survived polio were crippled from it or had organ damage. Chicken pox can cause shingles several years later. Measles can cause serious after effects, too. Even a bad case of flu or bronchitis in seniors can cause long term inflammatory after effects, as I discovered a few years ago.

A virus that can cause permanent organ damage is nothing to take lightly.

[Ms. Toad]

73. Polio and chicken pox are my main examples.

Polio not only left people crippled or with organ damage, after decades people who recovered an expected the impact from polio to remain steady or decline developed post-polio syndrome. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-polio-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20355669

That's the kind of thing I'm worried about. We already know there is long COVID (equivalent to the crippling or organ damage which extends beyond the active infectioninfection). What we don't know is whether there will be a post-COVID syndrome that rears its ugly head years later. Like post-polio syndrome, or shingles. We will not know that for decades - and it will be trickier to recognize the cause because so many of us have had COVID and it may appear as an unexplained decline in health quality in many different body systems (since COVID impacts so many).

[wnylib]

75. A very painful, crippling aftereffect of

a bad case of viral bronchitis 8 years ago was my own personal experience of viral aftereffects. That was, fortunately, treatable with 2 years of Prednisone so that I have regained mobility without pain.

The consequences of polio, chicken pox, and covid are far more serious and damaging. I cannot understand why people are not recognizing that and are focusing only on whether someone survives. We need to do much more publicizing of the long term effects.

Imagine if, before the pandemic, people had been warned that there was a new virus that could cause kidney, heart, and lung damage. Imagine that more immediate death from the virus was not a factor and the "only" effects of the virus were damage to major organs that would cause reduced mobility, shorter life span, dialysis, loss of energy, shortness of breath and COPD.

Would people have written those effects off as insignificant?

[Ms. Toad]

77. I keep talking about it,

Frequently with the same people who seem to be limited to binary thinking (we open everything up, or we stop living; vaccinated will be fine, unvaccinated will not be). It's extremely frustrating, expecially since they are bringing politics into this - the very thing we are now doing (e.g. changing the risk standards just in time to have a mask optional state of the union address). They are also subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) implying those of us focused on health rather than politics will be responsible for losing the 2022 midterm elections and/or 2024 presidential election.

[wnylib]

82. We will pay the price down the road.

[Zeitghost]

58. Permenant?

How could that even be known at this point?

[BumRushDaShow]

60. "Permenant? How could that even be known at this point?"

If a COVID-19 patient got a massive viral load that landed on their kidneys, then the potential is there (and it has happened) where they have "permanent" kidney damage and will require dialysis for the rest of their lives (or a transplant).

Kidney Damage Another Consequence of 'Long COVID,' Study Finds

Sept. 2, 2021, at 3:03 p.m.
U.S. News & World Report


By Amy Norton HealthDay Reporter


THURSDAY, Sept. 2, 2021 (HealthDay News) -- People hospitalized for COVID-19, and even some with milder cases, may suffer lasting damage to their kidneys, new research finds. The study of more than 1.7 million patients in the U.S. Veterans Affairs system adds to concerns about the lingering effects of COVID -- particularly among people sick enough to need hospitalization. Researchers found that months after their initial infection, COVID survivors were at increased risk of various types of kidney damage -- from reduced kidney function to advanced kidney failure.

People who'd been most severely ill -- requiring ICU care -- had the highest risk of long-term kidney damage. Similarly, patients who'd developed acute kidney injury during their COVID hospitalization had higher risks than COVID patients with no apparent kidney problems during their hospital stay. But what's striking is that those latter patients were not out of the woods, said Dr. F. Perry Wilson, a kidney specialist who was not involved in the study.

They were still about two to five times more likely to develop some degree of kidney dysfunction or disease than VA patients who were not diagnosed with COVID. "What stood out to me is that across the board, you see these risks even in patients who did not have acute kidney injury when they were hospitalized," said Wilson, an associate professor at Yale School of Medicine in New Haven, Conn.

There is some question about the degree to which the kidney problems are related to COVID specifically, or to being sick in the hospital, according to Wilson. It's unclear, for instance, how their kidney function would compare against that of patients hospitalized for the flu. But the study found that even VA patients who were sick at home with COVID were at increased risk of kidney problems.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-09-02/kidney-damage-another-consequence-of-long-covid-study-finds

One of the earliest articles that I read locally here in Philly about some of the horrid effects that some had with an infection (during the early part of the pandemic when no treatments or vaccines were available) was a middle-aged woman in NY, with no underlying conditions, who experienced kidney failure after her bout -

The coronavirus is damaging kidneys. Doctors worry that some survivors will need dialysis forever.



Sonia Toure's kidneys failed after she got COVID-19. She now needs dialysis. This photo was taken by a nurse at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York on May 6. She went home May 12. She said there is "no hope" that her kidneys will recover.Courtesy of Sonia Toure



by Stacey Burling
Published Aug 23, 2020

When the new coronavirus stormed the Northeast this year, Alan Kliger, a Yale University kidney specialist, thought it would behave like a typical respiratory virus. There had been signals from China that the new disease was hard on kidneys, but nephrologists like Kliger were not prepared for what happened when cases surged in New York. So many patients suffered kidney injury that dialysis supplies ran short. Two studies of New York patients found that 68% to 76% of intensive-care patients with COVID-19 had kidney damage. In one, a third of ICU patients needed dialysis, a process in which a machine performs the kidney’s blood-filtering work.

“The amount of acute injury and failure was unexpected and dramatic,” said Kliger, cochair of the American Society of Nephrology’s COVID-19 Response Team. It is too early to know whether survivors of serious COVID-19 will have long-lasting kidney damage, but doctors are worried. “People are just waking up to the fact that the kidney is an unappreciated manifestation [of COVID-19] but one that is pretty important,” said Girish Nadkarni, a nephrologist and researcher at Mount Sinai Health System in New York. “There might be an epidemic of post-coronavirus kidney disease coming.”

Sonia Toure’s story is what Nadkarni fears. Toure, 54, who worked as a research coordinator for City University of New York in the spring, had no chronic health problems before her first symptom of COVID-19 — a single cough — during a work Zoom meeting on March 25. Within a day, she had a sore throat and 103-degree fever, but no breathing problems. Over the next few days, there was more fever along with aches and pains that made her feel as if a mob had beaten her. For one blessed day, she thought she was getting better, but by April 7, she knew she had to go to the hospital.

At Mount Sinai, doctors discovered she was in kidney failure and started dialysis. She had pneumonia, but never needed a ventilator. After 35 days in the hospital, she went home on May 12 to her two sons, aged 19 and 21, and two German shepherds. The next day, a doctor called with the results of her kidney biopsy. “The doctor said there was absolutely no hope, that my kidneys were so damaged I would never recover,” she said. “I would have to be on dialysis the rest of my life until I could get a transplant.”

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-covid-kidneys-dialysis-mount-sinai-northwell-nephrologist-20200823.html

These are just the one-off "feature stories" of people who have been negatively impacted and then their stories get "buried" and they are forgotten except by their family and friends.

The point being - NO ONE should be cavalier about this damn virus. EVER. The "let 'er rip" crowd be damned.

[wnylib]

70. Is that really a serious question?

When your kidneys stop functioning so that you need dialysis and a kidney transplant, that is permanent damage.

When previously healthy lungs develop scarring that causes COPD, that is permanent. It is not reversible.

[wnylib]

71. Regarding long term heart disease

in previously healthy hearts after covid, this article describes the wide ranging aftereffects of covid on the heart.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2789793#:~:text=Patients%20with%20COVID%2D19%20were,heart%20failure%2C%20and%20thromboembolic%20disease.

[BumRushDaShow]

33. Because of how BA.1 & BA.2.x is configured as a variant

it hit children with a vengeance back during the peak -

Children are hospitalized with Covid at record numbers

Jan. 3, 2022, 6:38 PM EST / Updated Jan. 5, 2022, 1:10 PM EST
By Erika Edwards

The number of children hospitalized with Covid-19 is soaring nationwide, especially as the highly transmissible omicron variant of the coronavirus spreads across the country. According to an NBC News analysis, at least nine states have reported record numbers of Covid-related pediatric hospitalizations: Connecticut, Georgia, Illinois, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Maine, Missouri, Ohio and Pennsylvania, as well as Washington, D.C. Some of those children were found to be Covid-positive through routine testing if they had to be hospitalized for other, unrelated issues. But many have been hospitalized specifically because of complications from Covid-19.

The spike in hospitalizations frustrates pediatric infectious disease doctors on the front lines treating children sick with the coronavirus. "It seems like people have tried to downplay the significance of the disease in children," said Dr. Mark Kline, the physician-in-chief at Children's Hospital New Orleans. "We've spent two years rebutting myths pertaining to Covid and children, that it's 'harmless' for children. It's not." As of Monday, Kline said, 14 children were sick enough with Covid-19 to be hospitalized at his facility, and three were in the intensive care unit. The three children are under age 2. The youngest is just 8 weeks old.

At Texas Children's Hospital in Houston, pediatric hospitalization numbers, at close to 70 patients, have surpassed the peak of patients during the surge of the delta variant in the summer, Dr. Jim Versalovic, a pathologist who is a co-leader of the Covid-19 Command Center, said at a news briefing Monday. More than 90 percent of the cases are due to the omicron variant. "More children infected with omicron still translates into a big number of children who may need hospital-based care," Versalovic said.

On Monday, the American Academy of Pediatrics reported a sharp rise in pediatric Covid-19 cases. At least 325,340 cases were reported during the week of Dec. 23, compared with 198,551 cases during the week of Dec. 16. While serious illness from Covid is still rare for younger children, the sheer number of new cases worries doctors. As of Sunday, the number of pediatric Covid admissions had hit a new peak: 1,354 a day, based on a seven-day average, according to NBC News data. And the number of kids who simply occupied hospital beds each day, even if they ultimately weren't admitted to the hospital, reached a record average of 3,081 a day over the last seven-day period.

(snip)

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-warning-symptoms-children-kids-hospitalized-record-numbers-rcna10741

More on the reasons (including what I have been reading about pediatricians calling the result a type of "croup" ) -

Why Omicron Is Putting More Kids in the Hospital

The huge jump in cases means more hospitalizations. And children’s small airways can be more easily blocked by infections

By Marla Broadfoot on January 25, 2022



Until very recently, if there was one silver lining to the pandemic, it was that kids seemed to escape the worst of the virus. Very few became seriously ill or even mildly sick, compared with adults. But now that hopeful aspect may be fading. The number of children hospitalized with COVID has skyrocketed in recent weeks as the Omicron variant fueled a surge of infections, raising concerns that the latest version of the coronavirus may pose a greater threat to children. Nationwide, an average of 881 children under age 17 are being admitted to hospitals with COVID each day, according to the most recent data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Hospitalizations of children under the age of five, who are not eligible for the COVID vaccine, have soared to levels two to four times that of previous peaks. Experts believe the jump in pediatric hospitalizations is likely the result of a confluence of factors. One of them is Omicron’s more contagious nature, and another may be the variant’s newfound preference for airway passages above the lungs, which can be more easily blocked in small children. The big issue is that Omicron is infecting a lot more people.

“We refer to this as the denominator phenomenon,” says Susan Coffin, an infectious disease specialist at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. The hospitalization rate is calculated by dividing the number of hospitalizations—the numerator—by the number of known cases—the denominator. If the denominator becomes a bigger number, so will the numerator, the thinking goes. And indeed, a recent report from the American Academy of Pediatrics indicates that the denominator—specifically, the number of pediatric cases—is growing at an enormous rate. Out of the nearly 9.5 million children who have tested positive for COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemic, nearly 20 percent of these cases occurred in just the first two weeks of January.

(snip)

Still, Omicron’s predilection for the respiratory tract above the lungs could spell trouble for the youngest children, whose airways are narrower and less developed. Coffin says it is easier for these tiny airways to be obstructed by mucus and inflammation, causing infants and toddlers to develop wheezing or croup, a disease known for its characteristic barking cough. “These are classic syndromes of childhood, and we are pretty adept at taking care of them,” she says. Though these conditions can land children in the hospital, they are easily treatable, regardless of whether they are caused by SARS-CoV-2 or another virus.

(snip)

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-omicron-is-putting-more-kids-in-the-hospital/

[beaglelover]

14. Exactly correct!

[Siwsan]

15. Covid is just too tricky of a virus for me to treat lightly

No matter the variant, it just seems to be able to find and hone in on weaknesses in a person's immune system, and attack.

Here's a link to a guy who was fully vaccinated and yet almost died. Admittedly, this was from last May but I contend nobody know how their immune system will react to an infection. It's just not worth the risk, for me. I'm pretty healthy, for my age, but I am going to try to stay that way.


Healthy man nearly dies from COVID-19, urges people to sign legal document for healthcare decisions

MADISON (WKOW) -- Madison man Mike Wiltse was perfectly healthy and newly-wed when he fell sick from COVID-19 and almost died. Now, he's urging everyone to sign a legal document stating their healthcare decisions in an emergency on this year's Healthcare Decisions Day.

When Wiltse got married to his wife Luciana in May 2021, he never expected that in just a few months he'd being handing over the reigns to his healthcare decisions just a few months later.

"I had no idea that I would contract COVID," Wiltse said. "Especially given the fact that I was fully boosted at the time."


https://www.wkow.com/coronavirus/healthy-man-nearly-dies-from-covid-19-urges-people-to-sign-legal-document-for-healthcare/article_f12f8956-bdda-11ec-ab7a-cbc89aed2826.html?fbclid=IwAR2F5Kq99goaTbJH8gtr0BmaI16vpQYgYir06diBXLrxOjh9FlW6ShFBtb8

[BumRushDaShow]

25. "Case counts are meaningless."

They are not "meaningless" from a statistics standpoint (which is a weakness of probably the majority of the population who are math- and science-challenged).

If you have a small city with a population of 100,000 and you know in general, there is say, a small infection (positivity) rate of "1%", then 1% of 100,000 = 1000. And of those (based on how the variant manifests), 0.04% might be hospitalized (which is what CDC calculated for the peak of the last Omicron wave], i.e., "38.4 per 100,000" ), that means "less than 1 person" is hospitalized ( "0.4" of a person ) out of 1000 infected, obviously a very small number.

But once that same crazy-spreading variant starts moving through a community with little or no mitigation - and that means not only hitting the unvaccinated (including children under 5 who are not eligible and even some older children 5 - 11 because they were only recently approved and unfortunately about 34% of them have actually had at least one dose), but is hitting the vaccinated (and boosted) as well as reinfecting some people, then there is a cause for concern.

So now say your infections are up to 20% - 30% of the population (which is what was happening during the peak of the last Omicron wave), and using the "low" number of 20%, that means instead of 1000 infected, you have 20,000. If you keep the same "0.04% hospitalization rate", you are now up to 8, and if that town is in a county with say 1,000,000 people who share a limited number of hospitals and that county also has the same "20% infections", you now might have 200,000 "cases" (positives), and could potentially have 80 hospitalizations that could fill up ICUs in that county's hospital system.

I.e., the more the "cases" the more the possibility of everything else that can go along with that. They call it a "multiplier effect".

And hospitalizations of vaccinated did occur and were much higher compared to earlier variants (from CDC - https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination).



Having a booster helped in that case -



So Omicron caused a surge of "breakthroughs" - just due to how the virus mutated. This doesn't mean the vaccines are useless but again is reflecting "raw numbers". The debate that suddenly had metrics shift to hospitalizations was due to a concern that many who were in the hospital during that last wave for other illnesses ended up testing positive for COVID. But the critical thing in this case would be for reported data to differentiate the "hospitalization caused by COVID" vs "hospitalization caused by something else but exacerbated by COVID".

It's like what happens in the summer during heatwaves and trying to differentiate people "dying from heat stroke" vs "dying from heart disease or other malady that was prompted by exposure to extreme heat".

[SoonerPride]

28. OK, add the word "essentially"

Case counts are essentially meaningless.

Vaccination status is still the primary driver for adverse effects from Covid 19 and any of the multiple variants.

For the vaccinated population Covid 19 is no longer a major concern.

It is time to return to living and the vast majority of vaccinated democrats agree with that.

You are free to feel differently.

[BumRushDaShow]

30. Sorry to have dropped that load on you

But regarding this --

For the vaccinated population Covid 19 is no longer a major concern.

I would give these brand new mRNA vaccines a few more years before declaring victory. The fact that people who are immunocompromised (and there are many many out there) along with the older population - where both groups will need to be continually boosted and boosted and boosted, means that it IS a concern.

"Needle fatigue" has already set in where you have a big chunk of the population who are "fully vaccinated" who have refused to get boosted. You already have only a small percent of the population who even get annual flu shots as it is...

And although I have posted over and over that SARS CoV2 "is not a cold" or "a flu", trying to vaccinate against these types of respiratory illnesses is hard due to the fact that they mutate so much.

However the fact that this new vaccine tech has done as well as it has is a miracle.

[liberal_mama]

36. I think that's easy to say if you live in an area with low spread, but some of us aren't that lucky

My county has actually moved into high spread status, which is pretty hard to do with the CDC's new Voodoo metrics and all the home testing that isn't reported & counted.

Maybe I've got you confused with someone else, but didn't you say in another post that you live in a state with only like 50 new cases a day?

I guess if my state only had 50 new cases a day, I would be a lot more relaxed. I'd still wear a mask because I'm immune compromised (i wore a mask before Covid due to my health conditions), but I'd be probably comfortable going to the grocery store and visiting family.

Most of the people that I know that have recently got Covid were vaccinated. My vaccinated husband got Covid and he was very sick and still has lingering issues several months later.

No, he didn't die, but believe me, you wouldn't want to get this. He literally thought he was dying. In 30 years together, I have never seen him that sick before. My husband is very healthy and has no comorbidities so i was surprised that he got such a bad case.

[SoonerPride]

38. Oklahoma has averaged 75 cases a day for the two weeks.

Hardly anyone wears masks.

I am sure a great number are also unvaccinated because I live in red state hell.

But I am unconcerned about Covid even if I should catch it.

I am vaxxed and twice boosted.

I haven't worn a mask since January and won't unless required to by a business.

[Ms. Toad]

55. So people who wear masks aren't living? Who knew.

It is time to continue to focus on minimizing transmission of a disease about which our knowledge is limited to two years. What we know from those two years is that COVID causes an increase in risk of cardiac events, diminished mental capacity and executive functioning, and a decrease in brain matter. Only time will uncover the other long-term effects. Until we know what those are, the minimizing infection needs to continue to be a focus of our public health policies. Vaccinations certainly need to be a priority - but not the only priority, since they are not 100% effective at preventing disease transmission. Beyond that, especially with cases increasing and already in the former "substantial transmission" range masks are still warranted and should be encouraged (or mandated), rather than discouraged particularly in places which are necessary to carry out daily routines (stores, public transportation, courts, doctors' offices, etc.).

I don't care which party's politics are being prioritized over public health - COVID is a public health matter, and treating it as political (as both sides are now doing) is a disaster. The grown ups need to retake control of the CDC.

[gulliver]

88. +1

[demmiblue]

12. Buh-bye!

[Siwsan]

13. I keep missing the comments of the trolls who attack my Covid posts!!

I think this is the third, this year!

[AntivaxHunters]

19. Would you like me to...

screen shot them should I happen to come across them before they're taken down?

[Siwsan]

22. Sure!

It's always helpful to know if I should start sage smudging my house!

I remember when you could actually look at deleted posts.

[Sugarcoated]

51. Yer gonna go bye bye

[ancianita]

52. Enjoy your stay.

[AntivaxHunters]

65. lol what did that person say?

Let me guess, something stupid that's Covid related?

[ancianita]

67. It was blasting right wing talking points about COVID.

On the first post. Not cool.

[AntivaxHunters]

69. Of course!

[Quakerfriend]

9. Yes, keep on masking!

Cases are up 82% in Pa & hospitalizations are now up 12%.

Went to a family party on Easter- 54 people there-
Now beloved matriarch is positive 😢.

I tested negative this am.

[Demsrule86]

16. There was not one Covid patient in the Hospital where hubs had his surgery...big hospital.

This hospital had done nothing but Covid for two years...no surgeries, no heart attacks... We have colds every year and we can manage this with vaccines.

[Siwsan]

17. Funny thing - I haven't had a cold in over 2 years.

I used to get 2 or 3 a year - at least one would be really bad. The last one I had was early in 2020 and it was very mild. About that same time my brother got a hard case of Covid. Despite being exposed to it, by him, once my cold symptoms were gone, I was fine.

I've never had flu, or if I have, I was asymptomatic, but I understand those cases plummeted over the past two years, too. No doubt things will return to contagious, soon.

[Lucky Luciano]

26. No colds or anything else for me since June 2013! Knock wood!

[Ms. Toad]

56. COVID is not the cold, or a flu.

and we have years of experience with both of those to know that they don't create life-long health impacts.

All we know about COVID is from two years' of experience - and data beyond the criticial stage of the disease is just now being studied. We know that between 25% and 50% of people - even people with mild cases of COVID - have long COVID. Beyond that, for as long as we have been able to measure, people with even mild cases of COVID have an increased risk of cardiac events, and a significant portion have diminished mental capacity, diminished executive functioning, and loss of brain matter. Given what we already know, it is pretty clear that we will learn that there are even more long-term effects yet to be discovered.

Until we have at least a decade of experience with COVID (and preferably longer), we need to continue to focus on disease prevention - not merely on mitigating the damage done by the initial infection.

[bigtree]

20. we also jumped up this week in my state

...they were running a couple hundred reported cases a day for months, up to over a thousand today for the first time since Feb. 1.5% up to 4.5% and pressure on removing covid protections is increasing without much pause, except in the largest city with pushback against even those measures.

It's really a battle zone for the aged, the pre-condition folks and the immunocompromised looking to defend themselves (ourselves) against the virus.

[Precipice_dweller]

34. Adding one (my) data point.

Reading here and elsewhere I've seen a lot of statements to the effect that case counts are "meaningless," it's only the unvaccinated who are going to be affected. While the persistence and peaks of the pandemic are due, in large part, to the refusal of a segment of the population to vaccinate, practice social distancing, and wear masks, that's not the whole story.

I was vaccinated, wore masks, and practiced social distancing. Hell, I worked in health science research and the nature of my work allowed my to isolate far more thoroughly than many for much of the pandemic.

Then, last year I went to the ER with GI pain and chest pain. I woke up a month later to discover I'd stopped breathing during intake and had to be intubated. Pigtail catheters were inserted through my back to drain the fluid from around my lungs, but I still have permanent respiratory damage. The GI pain turned out to be what is now chronic pancreatitis. I now have chronic kidney disease, severe atrial fibrillation, chronic pain, and an inflammatory reaction that flares up to this day. I walk with a cane, struggle with chronic fatigue and mind fog. Needless to say, my career is shot. I'm still struggling with my application for disability. And, yes, testing revealed I was infected by COVID without knowing it, despite taking all of the appropriate precautions.

My point? Be careful out there. It's all well and good to declare that only an infinitesimal number of vaccinated people are going to be affected by COVID....until you're part of that infinitesimal fraction of the population. Keep up with your boosters, keep wearing masks, and use caution in social practices. This virus isn't playing around. Neither should you.

[BumRushDaShow]

42. Welcome to DU

and am so sorry to hear of your nightmare with this disease.

I know I have posted over and over and over here that the mechanism for how this virus attaches to cells and then replicates is unique in terms of WHERE it can attach - i.e., places that have what are called "ACE2 receptors". These are located not just in the respiratory system but also in the renal system (kidneys) in the gastric system (including intestines), in the circulatory system including on the heart, and the neural system including the brain.

If you have a high enough load where some manage to get to those organs, you can be screwed.

I did read an article last week with some research that has uncovered some things about what might be happening with the inflammation responses that can cause more severe impacts. I had posted the below (in part) in a different thread last week - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2903945

The problem though is that we haven't had a virus like this in over a century and as you have now witnessed over the past 2 years (and I say this as a retired chemist who used to work for one of the health agencies), there is a lot of stumbling around going on because "past practices" that they have been accustomed to, have NOT panned out for predicting the behavior of SARS CoV-2.

And regarding "inflammation" - I literally read an article today based on a recent study done by Harvard with a fascinating discovery about what might be happening with the disparate inflammatory responses -

Inflammatory Insights
Study reveals how COVID-19 triggers severe immune response

By NANCY FLIESLER | Boston Children’s April 6, 2022 Research


Illustration of a macrophage battling bacteria. Image: urfingus/iStock/Getty Images Plus


This article is part of Harvard Medical School’s continuing coverage of COVID-19.

A study led by researchers at Harvard Medical School and Boston Children’s Hospital explains for the first time why COVID-19 causes severe inflammation in some people, leading to acute respiratory distress and multi-organ damage. Surprisingly, the study also finds that antibodies that people develop when they contract COVID-19 sometimes lead to more inflammation, while antibodies generated by mRNA COVID-19 vaccines seem not to. Findings were published April 6 in Nature. The team was led by Judy Lieberman, HMS professor of pediatrics at Boston Children’s; Caroline Junqueira, HMS research associate in pediatrics at Boston Children’s; and Michael Filbin, HMS assistant professor of emergency medicine at Massachusetts General Hospital.

“We wanted to understand what distinguishes patients with mild versus severe COVID-19,” said Lieberman. “We know that many inflammatory markers are elevated in people with severe disease, and that inflammation is at the root of disease severity, but we hadn’t known what triggers the inflammation.”

Fiery death of immune cells

The investigators analyzed fresh blood samples from patients with COVID-19 coming to the emergency department at Mass General. They compared these with samples from healthy people and from patients with other respiratory conditions. They also looked at lung autopsy tissue from people who had died from COVID-19. They found that SARS-CoV-2 can infect monocytes—immune cells in the blood that act as sentinels or early responders to infection—as well as macrophages, similar immune cells in the lungs. Once infected, the team found, both types of cells die a fiery death called pyroptosis that releases an explosion of powerful inflammatory alarm signals. “In the infected patients, about 6 percent of blood monocytes were dying an inflammatory death,” said Lieberman. “That’s a large number to find, because dying cells are rapidly eliminated from the body.”

Examining the lung tissue from people who died from COVID-19, they found that about a quarter of the macrophages in the tissue were dying. When the researchers studied the cells for signs of SARS-CoV-2, they found that about 10 percent of monocytes and 8 percent of lung macrophages were infected. The fact that monocytes and macrophages can be infected with SARS-CoV-2 was a surprise, since monocytes don’t carry ACE2 receptors, the classic entry portal for the virus, and macrophages have low amounts of ACE2. Lieberman thinks SARS-CoV-2 infection of monocytes might have previously been missed in part because researchers often study frozen blood samples, in which dead cells do not show up.


More: https://hms.harvard.edu/news/inflammatory-insights

Here's a link to the "Nature" mag publication - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04702-4

Basically what they discovered is that COVID-19 obviously "attaches" and replicates in specific areas of the body that have what they call ACE2-receptors (which appear all over the body - not just the respiraratory system but also on the kidneys, in the digestive system, in the circulatory and neural systems - which helped to explain all the different symptoms that people might present with). But this latest research found that the virus can ALSO attach to certain "canary in the coal mine" immune cells that have none of those receptors, and although the virus can use those types of cells to replicate with, the attachment is weak and not optimal, so instead, if it does attach, it basically sets up a near-catastrophic set of processes that just destroys those cells, and doing so releases chemicals in the body that cause inflammation.

They said that they hadn't discovered this phenomena earlier because the samples that they were testing were often stored frozen and thus any traces of the now-destroyed monocytes or macrophages, would not be picked up.

[NNadir]

79. I'm glad you recovered. Welcome to DU.

[Ms. Toad]

40. I got you beat. We're up 138% over 2 weeks ago.

(Up 57% over one week ago).

We're currently at 109 cases/100,000 over a 2 week period (65/100,000 in the last 7 days). Under the old standards, that puts us in the substantial transmission range. The CDC, when it pretended to care about transmission, recommended that when community transmission was in the substantial range everyone - including those vaccinated - wear masks.

Now that the CDC is continuing the Trump tradition of emphasizing politics over health (to allow the state of the union address to be given without a fight over masks), under 200 cases/100,000 in 7 days became the new low community transmission mark. With Omicrom BA.2, a variant 4 times more infectious than Delta, it is ludicrous that it requires more than 3 times the number of new cases to reach the substantial transmission range. That's the opposite of following the science and prioritizing community health.

And, oh yea, great time to drop the mask mandate on planes.

[Bengus81]

44. Another 303 have died in Kansas since April 1st

Bet your arse they've never had one shot,let alone 3-4.

Deep dead,I mean deep RED Kansas.

[nitpicker]

45. Arlington County VA just upticked to 100 cases a day

https://www.arlnow.com/2022/04/22/arlington-is-now-reporting-more-than-100-covid-cases-per-day/

PS. I went by the local elementary school today for outdoor lunch. The staff were masked, but only 3 kids were...

[haele]

46. Spring break ended Monday. Got a notice from the school today there was a positive case.

One of the grandkids classmates. Everyone was tested at lunch (they didn't call to get her picked up, so I suppose she tested negative) and they need to be tested again on Sunday to get back to school. SAT testing begins Monday...

As it is, I've had a weird cold since Wednesday. Off to get tested now before they come home from school.

Haele

[Kaleva]

47. 10 new cases in the past 2 wks here in my home county in Upper Michigan

[Quixote1818]

53. This number can be very deceiving. When counts are low, even a few more people can make

the percentage jump way up. For example if you only had 1 case and then the next week you had 3 cases then there was a jump of 300% but you only have 4 people with Covid. But if you had 10,000 cases then the next week you had 12,000 that's only an increase of 20% but clearly a lot more actual cases.

[BumRushDaShow]

61. This is why both metrics need to be looked at

without discarding one or the other. "Cases are cases" - they represent the potential for "more cases" via "spread" which can lead to more mutations (as we have now seen the past 2 years).

If you have a very rural area where there were no cases and then suddenly you get "1", that can be just as significant because chances are that "rural area" has little or no nearby hospitals if hospitalization is required, so they get hauled into the closest one that can even handle them, and that might even be in a different county (where people in that county might need the beds). I know in some cases during the height of Delta, there were "rural" individuals actually needing to go out-of-state to get care.

For example, this was a biggy and I just found this latest analysis of the phenomena -

Idaho COVID-19 surge drove patient transfers, strained out-of-state hospitals, new data shows

At least 6,300 transfers sent patients out of Idaho hospitals between August and November 2021, a new analysis reveals, with about 1 in 3 going out of the state.


By: Betsy Ladyzhets and Audrey Dutton - March 16, 2022 4:30 am



Last fall, Idaho was one of a handful of states that went into emergency “crisis standards of care” to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic. The federal government-backed designation allowed hard-hit states to limit the number of patients in its overwhelmed hospitals and, in some extreme cases, ration care based on how sick people were.

Idaho operated under crisis standards for weeks, with the northern Panhandle region staying there for more than 100 days. Several states have formally instituted crisis standards during the pandemic, including Alaska, Colorado and Hawaii, while many others have informally limited the number of patients they take or have taken other measures to deal with surges.

A new analysis of state data from the Documenting COVID-19 project and the Idaho Capital Sun shows the impact of those crisis standards: As they filled up, Idaho hospitals were forced to transfer patients at least 6,300 times, making unusual moves as they scrambled to find open beds.

During this period, Washington Gov. Jay Inslee criticized Idaho’s leadership for “clogging up” his state’s hospitals. Data from Idaho’s and Washington’s health departments back up this criticism, showing high numbers of Idaho patients treated in Washington throughout 2021.

https://idahocapitalsun.com/2022/03/16/idaho-covid-19-surge-drove-patient-transfers-strained-out-of-state-hospitals-new-data-shows/

ETA - here is the map of where Idaho "shipped patients" out of state (from the above article) -



The entire population of Idaho (~1.8 million) is just a couple hundred thousand more than the population of my city (Philly - pop. 1.6 million). The cost of air transport of patients out of state like that can be upwards of $25,000 per flight.

At some point there is supposed to be a reconciliation of where the case came from, but the fact is, that "1" person could be taking up a bed somewhere in a hospital from something that is "preventable" that has not only been politicized, but has been minimized as "inconsequential", with demands that "we move on" (meaning - forget about any more "mitigation" - "let it rip" ).

[BSdetect]

62. Surely the coalmine canaries are exhausted by now?

[TheFarseer]

63. I'm hoping

The media will bury this and cover it up. Sorry, but I can’t do this again. Plus, Dems are going to get annihilated if this is still an issue in November.

[AntivaxHunters]

66. You can't do this again?

You won't be doing jack shit dead from Covid.
You won't be doing jack shit when you're infected with long haul Covid.
Would you have unprotected sex with someone you don't know? But you'll stand in a public space around a bunch of people unmaked. Guess what? STD's are infectious diseases too and they aren't as risky as Covid because the chances are greatly increased with risk of infection from what? Covid.

WTF is up with your take here? It is straight out of the far right with lacking any consciousness of empathy & compassion. Your selfishness is exactly why so many are dead. People on this website have lost loved ones and immediate family to Covid but you can't do this again?


People are dying FFS! I lost my mom who's flag was planted on the national mall at the installation remembering the people who have died from Covid.She was killed by an anti-masker. I have huge issues with what you're saying here and you can claim you can fight for everyone to have healthcare but it has absolutely no meaning when you can't even wear a damn mask in public to protect yourself and everyone around you. Integrity be dammed.

Wear a damn mask.

[Yavin4]

74. If masks limit the spread, then why aren't they working in S. Korea, Germany, and Vietnam?

Germany, which mandated N95 masks as early as Jan. 2021, has a higher case rate per million than the US where over half of the states had no mask mandate at all.

[AntivaxHunters]

76. Masks limit the spread

This has been known for over 100 years that masking limits the spread of infectious diseases. It's one of the reasons why we defeated the Spanish Flu. I can't believe I'm having this discussion on a message board for Democrats.

Do you know where the greatest amount of death happened? In red states which did little to protect people with policies put in place to fight Covid. Hurd immunity kills.

Show me ANY scientific fact which shows not wearing a mask is safer than wearing a mask. Any. Please have at it.

As far as Germany goes....

5 reasons Germany's COVID-19 infections are soaring https://www.dw.com/en/5-reasons-germanys-covid-19-infections-are-soaring/a-59793087

* Waning immunity
* Fewer contact restrictions
* Higher transmission rate of variants
* The effect of unvaxed people
* Seasonal effect

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=vSk0CeDcNYdHYntIld3B0A

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=vSk0CeDcNYdHYntIld3B0A

[Yavin4]

72. The virus is seasonal.

There will always be upticks and downticks in cases a different parts of the year. Look for a major uptick in Southern states over the summer. This has been the pattern for two years now.

We're all going to be exposed/infected at some point in our lives, and there's nothing that we can do about it. The only control we have is to get vaccinated and boosted regularly.

[bigtree]

80. seasonal, meaning any occasion where large numbers of numbskulls gather unprotected

...we can see that holidays, like Spring break and the 4th of July make the numbers jump.

But there are still people who insist it's fine to fill stadiums and other optional gatherings right now because, freedom and they're moving on.

Now that indifference to the virus is being made acceptable by an increasing number of national, state, and community leaders as a political and life choice, there will be an increase in folks telling us to 'move on, and that the virus will always be with us' - and, whose uncaring behavior will actually perpetuate the infections.

[Yavin4]

86. The virus spreads in places where people don't crowd as well.

It spread in Antartica:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59848160

[bigtree]

87. Antartica wasn't responsible for spreading it into my state

...don't be ridiculous.

I live in a state bordered by several others in a commuter corridor. Workplaces are where these commuting crowd lovers affect the broader community.

[Yavin4]

89. We cannot stop the virus from spreading no matter what we do.

It spreads in places with mitigation measures in place like masking, lockdowns, social distancing, etc.
It spreads in places with high vaccination rates.
It spreads in places with low vaccination rates.
It spreads in low population density places.
It spreads in high population density places.
It spreads in red states.
It spreads in blue states.
It spreads in Asian countries.
It spreads in European countries.
It spreads in African countries.
It spreads in North American countries.
It spreads in South American countries.
It spreads in humans.
It spreads in non-humans.

It's going to be around forever. There's nothing that we can do about the spread.

What we can do is this:
1. Get vaccinated.
2. Get boosted every six months or so.
3. Lose weight.
4. Eat healthier.
5. Exercise more.
6. Take vitamins.

Doing these lowers your risk from severe illness, death, and long term consequences. Roughly, your risk level will be the same as for any other major illness or accident or any other health threat.

[bigtree]

90. "There's nothing that we can do about the spread." False.

...just is.

[Yavin4]

92. Two years of rising cases across the country and the planet

No matter what measures were put into place support my argument.

Where's your data to support your argument?

[bigtree]

93. I'm working up my own anecdotal report

...I just need more input from my frontal lobe.

[BumRushDaShow]

81. "The only control we have is to get vaccinated and boosted regularly."

That's not the "only control". Outside of "masking" (as needed) and the other usual mitigation recommendations, improving the ventilation in old piece of junk buildings would also help. You have faulty HVAC systems in many large and small business that have exasperated something as simple as mold and fungi that can dry out, go airborne, and spread throughout a facility or you could end up with a proliferation of Legionella in poorly maintained cooling systems (like water-based cooling towers for air conditioning) -

Published: 06 January 2021

Legionnaires’ disease in the time of COVID-19

Kelsie Cassell, J Lucian Davis & Ruth Berkelman

Pneumonia volume 13, Article number: 2 (2021) Cite this article


Abstract

Due to similarities in initial disease presentation, clinicians may be inclined to repeatedly test community-acquired pneumonia cases for COVID-19 before recognizing the need to test for Legionnaires’ disease. Legionnaires’ disease is an illness characterized by pneumonia that has a summer/early fall seasonality due to favorable conditions for Legionella growth and exposure. Legionella proliferate in warm water environments and stagnant sections of indoor plumbing and cooling systems. During the ongoing pandemic crisis, exposures to aerosolized water from recently reopened office or retail buildings should be considered as an epidemiologic risk factor for Legionella exposure and an indication to test. The majority of Legionnaires’ disease cases occurring each year are not diagnosed, and some experts recommend that all patients hospitalized with community-acquired pneumonia without a known etiology be tested for Legionella infection. Proper diagnosis can increase the likelihood of appropriate and timely antibiotic treatment, identify potential clusters of disease, and facilitate source attribution.

As SARS-CoV-2 continues to sweep through the world’s population, healthcare providers should be on heightened alert for another potential cause of pneumonia with similar symptoms: Legionnaires’ disease. Public health professionals have recognized that due to the similarities in initial disease presentation, clinicians may repeatedly test for coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) before recognizing the need to test for Legionnaires’ disease. Legionnaires’ disease is a common cause of community-acquired pneumonia with ~ 10% mortality; most patients require hospitalization with some progressing to acute respiratory failure leading to intensive care unit admission, similar to COVID-19 [1]. Infections are due to inhalation of aerosols containing Legionella. As buildings reopen and previously stagnant plumbing and cooling systems return to use, many additional cases could present to emergency departments in the coming months. Over the past two decades, U.S. incidence of Legionnaires’ disease has increased over five-fold to more than 3.0 cases per 100,000 population in 2018, with most cases occurring in the summer and early autumn (Fig. 1). Yet, Legionnaires’ disease remains vastly underdiagnosed with the true number of cases estimated to be more than 50,000 per year [2].

https://pneumonia.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s41479-020-00080-5

These are just "common sense" things that can be done that will not only help with COVID but a whole pile of other things often associated with what people call "sick buildings".

[ProfessorGAC]

91. 130% Here, But...

...in a county of 700,000 the seven day MA is still only 138. It was 60 on April 1.
That said, ALL BUT TWO hospitals in the entire county are reporting >20% ICU bed availability. Hospitals actually plan to have 1 in 4 ICU beds available all the time in case of emergency. They don't want to be at 95%, but they don't want 50% either. If availability was routinely that high, they'd reduce the number of ICU beds and increase rooms for noncritical patients.
Being consistently over 25% is less than economically ideal.
So, at this point our county is pretty good.
All that said, the fully vaxxed rate here is nearly 75% (whole population basis), with over 60% at least one booster.
That may have a lot to do with the the low burden on the hospitals.

[DFW]

94. On the way back from the Big Island to Germany

We left Friday night. The crew and some of the passengers wore masks.

On the Saturday night flight from San Francisco to Germany, we flew Lufthansa, and masks were required on that flight, so everybody wore one. In town in San Francisco, it seemed about half and half.

Our taxi driver into town noticed that some of us were speaking German, and I noticed he had a slight accent himself. I asked where he was from, and he said "Soviet Union." This seemed and odd response, and he said that when he left, that WAS the country he left from. I asked what part, and he said the Donyetsk area. We spoke Russian for most of the rest of the ride. He said he couldn't believe how the world he came from had gone completely berserk, and how glad he was to be in San Francisco instead. I guess!