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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOMG! Remember when Pence said, 'I'm not getting in that car'?
https://www.rawstory.com/mike-pence-secret-service/Raskin suspects the vice president's Secret Service agents were reporting to Trump's agents, and the plan was to take Pence away from the Capitol to corrupt the certification process as part of the insurrection.
"[Pence then] uttered what I think are the six most chilling words of this entire thing I've seen so far: 'I'm not getting in that car,'" Raskin said. "He knew exactly what this inside coup they had planned for was going to do."
"It was a coup directed by the president against the vice president and against the Congress."
Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)Pence knew what was about to happen. He would probably be dead, along with democracy, had he taken that ride.
And, this was the last ditch effort.
C Moon
(12,213 posts)70sEraVet
(3,503 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,205 posts)AdamGG
(1,292 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,173 posts)but an alt read is that he feared for his life if he went with them, and figured instinctively in the moment that he would be better off with the Congressional crowds around him.
CrispyQ
(36,470 posts)I'm betting he didn't even know at the time that the crowd had a symbolic gallows & noose & were chanting "Hang Mike Pence." Pence was acting on the knowledge that Trump would do anything to stay in power. "I could kill the Vice President of the country and not lose voters."
lastlib
(23,239 posts)...and put Pelosi next in succession line. Probly their intent was to get him out of the Capitol and keep him from doing the count.
sop
(10,191 posts)oldsoftie
(12,553 posts)Not to diminish the stand that Pence took, but him getting locked inna closet wouldn't have stopped the count from being validated.
ToxMarz
(2,168 posts)And whatever he may or may not have done would be argued invalid (just where we are now) until eternity by which ever side didn't like what he did or didn't do.
oldsoftie
(12,553 posts)Unlike some of the idiots
ToxMarz
(2,168 posts)But that isn't the same as Pence having been taken to an undisclosed location "for his safety," never to return for the count and Grassley taking over. With pressure on him to do the wrong thing from his fellow Repukes and crazy rioters, and him holding all the cards, we'll never know how he would have reacted.
wnylib
(21,481 posts)could have taken over?
oldsoftie
(12,553 posts)MagickMuffin
(15,943 posts)So, sorry no VP Pelosi.
Article II of the US Constitution was vague on several points about succession. Following the assassination of John F. Kennedy, the 25th Amendment was drafted to make it explicit. Ratified in 1967, it answers your question.
Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
Only six years after its ratification this section was used twice in 14 months. Spiro Agnew resigned as Nixon's VP, and was replaced by Gerald Ford. After Nixon resigned and Ford became president, Nelson Rockefeller became VP.
lastlib
(23,239 posts)but she is next in succession behind the VP.
wnylib
(21,481 posts)in case both the president and vice president are unable to do their job. The speaker is not in the line of succession to the vice presidency.
At the time of the coup attempt, Trump was still president, so Pelosi would have remained as Speaker and Trump could have appointed a VP replacement for Pence, one who would do his bidding. Didn't even have to kill Pence. Just make him too Ill to function for several weeks, or threaten him to make him resign.
lastlib
(23,239 posts)(I've read the Presidential Succession Act.) TFG could have apponted a VP replacement, but a Democratic Congress would NEVER have approved an appointment, with inauguration two weeks away. My point was that TFG would NEVER have made Speaker Pelosi next in line for the presidency behind him.
whopis01
(3,514 posts)He could care less if it was Pence or Pelosi.
His goal was to remain as President. He didnt care who was next in line. Trump wanted Pence out of that position because Pence wasnt going to try to keep Trump in power.
Captain Zero
(6,806 posts)That day.
Trump would have used Pelosi's, Grassley's and Pence's deaths to declare martial law until he could have the ARMY RUN ANOTHER ELECTION. Under Martial law he remains president, unless he had got killed too, THEN POMPEO would have been president.
I say DOJ needs to look at what POMPEO was doing from election day until Jan. 6.
Pachamama
(16,887 posts)Hekate
(90,708 posts)I agree with Raskin about how chilling Pences words were: he knew. That call-out to Mme Speaker had the same effect on me the insurrectionists meant to kill them both.
tikka
(762 posts)Hekate
(90,708 posts)ShazzieB
(16,412 posts)It sure does.
calimary
(81,304 posts)But if the mob had had its way thered have been few left standing to uphold the law and seek accountability.
God only knows what a mob fired up into a grievance frenzy like that would have done. I dont even want to think about it.
DENVERPOPS
(8,835 posts)every Dem Senator and house member, and every Dem aide and it would have been a house of horrors. With Pence thrown in for disobeying Trumps orders to overthrow the election.
Pence obviously had been privy to many interactions between Trump and certain Secret Service Agents on his presidential detail.
He knew that many of them were loyal to Trump, and not to the office he held.
He knew he shouldn't trust the so called "agents" that he didn't know or recognize to drive him anywhere.......His survival depended on that decision, but you would never know it the way he is still carrying on trying to obliterate the dems and suck up to the Repubs like January 6th never happened, and as if they hadn't tried to take him out..........
Grassley would have done what ever Trump and the Republicans would have asked him..........
calimary
(81,304 posts)Pelosi would have been one of the early targets. And out of fear, cowardice, or mendacious greed and ravenous opportunism, the mob would have thrown any remaining caution to the wind. They genuinely believed that THEY had some mantle of truth and entitlement giving cover to whatever ends they went to, to justify their means.
At least thats my suspicion.
Every last one of em belongs behind bars.
treestar
(82,383 posts)soldierant
(6,880 posts)Remember "Nancy! Oh Naaan-cee! Where are you, Nancy?"
czarjak
(11,278 posts)PatSeg
(47,482 posts)2naSalit
(86,643 posts)Javaman
(62,530 posts)the orange asshole and his room full of crooks would have killed him and would have blamed "antifa" or the left of BLM or anyone they felt convenient at the time.
wryter2000
(46,051 posts)If the plan was just to take him somewhere he could have had an excuse to do what Trump wanted. Hed already been looking for a reason to do that.
Response to Joinfortmill (Original post)
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keithbvadu2
(36,818 posts)geardaddy
(24,931 posts)Backseat Driver
(4,392 posts)brush
(53,784 posts)At least his instincts saved the certification of the vote. If he'd gotten in that car, it wouldn't have happened.
And who knows what would've happened to him?
Samrob
(4,298 posts)Samrob
(4,298 posts)brush
(53,784 posts)Emile
(22,780 posts)vanlassie
(5,675 posts)wnylib
(21,481 posts)demanded of him. And the possible consequences of refusing.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)Bettie
(16,110 posts)with regard to Secret Service agents.
I doubt their commitment to protecting our President and VP. Not all of them, but there sure seem to be some bad apples in there.
Joinfortmill
(14,427 posts)Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)with expensive apartments, gifts, etc. It was a big news story a week or so ago, then it disappeared.
One of the SS agents was assigned to Jill Biden, wasn't he? There should have been some heads rolling.
Bettie
(16,110 posts)who were on Jill Biden's detail and Kamala Harris'.
Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)Hekate
(90,708 posts)intheflow
(28,476 posts)Who were the Trump agents that thought it was okay to disrupt the election by convincing other agents to kidnap the VP to disrupt the vote. FFS, that should be the lead of this story.
dalton99a
(81,513 posts)Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)Shall not stand. Let justice prevail. Lock the Republican traitors up.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Preferably under oath, with a court reporter taking it all down? Or is that wild-eyed radical ungoodthink?
FakeNoose
(32,641 posts)It wasn't that he feared for his life or safety. It was that the secret service agents wanted to get him away from there, and then he couldn't complete the task of confirming Biden's election.
Mike Pence may be guilty of a lot of things, however on January 6th he was determined to see it through and complete his job. He never tried to subvert the Electoral College or delay Biden's confirmation. THAT was Chump's plan, and Pence refused to go along with it - to the point of saying "No!" to Chump's face.
Was Mike Pence a hero? Well no, because a hero would have invoked the 25th Amendment and declared Chump unfit and removed him from office. Pence never did that despite numerous opportunities.
LiberalArkie
(15,716 posts)LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)H2O Man
(73,558 posts)oldsoftie
(12,553 posts)Along with 2/3 of both houses.
He couldn't do it.
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)I sincerely believe that. And Lying McCarthy proves it in his taped conversation with Liz Cheney.
IMO between 1-7-21 and 1-20-21 this would have passed, McConnell and McCarthy would have given their members the green light to vote their conscience.
Response to Tommymac (Reply #67)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)There is verified evidence that supports that. I'm no Pence admirer, far from it, but Pence refusing to be taken away for his own safety in order to remain to carry out his part of the certification fits that scenario.
At this point, what plots may have swirled among those trying to find a way to pull off their coup d'etat are speculation and conspiracism based on what MIGHT have come to their minds. I'm sure many of them would have done anything, though, and any that aren't already disproven (whether we know it or not) could conceivably be true.
I've put a pin in it.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)Seemed to me, [in my scanty viewing] that there was a nefarious? plot to get the VP into a car and abduct him.
[My wife had seen a few minutes at some earlier time, she couldn't tell whether it was a movie double fake trick play or a triple thick play. I turned it all off].
usonian
(9,810 posts)You don't "get in that car".
For a more detailed account of gangsters, read "The Way of the Wiseguy" by "Donnie Brasco" Joe Pistone.
Specifically chapter 34 of the same name.
As for the resemblance to certain politicians and parties, the names have been changed to protect the guilty.
Midnight Writer
(21,768 posts)Along with all the other Republicans who denounced Trump that day, only to later walk it all back.
Novara
(5,842 posts)Either he was in fear for his life or he knew they'd overturn the election.
It's damning either way.
lame54
(35,292 posts)When asked to be VP candidate
gab13by13
(21,350 posts)that entire agency needs to be scrutinized. Now this is back in the 70's but I knew someone who got into the SS, he was the son of a Mafiosa criminal.
raccoon
(31,111 posts)Kid Berwyn
(14,907 posts)Secret Service didn't like African Americans in 1963. Ask Agent Abraham Bolden.
Former U.S. Secret Service Agent Abraham BOLDEN was the first African American Secret Service agent to serve in the White House, personally appointed and literally hand-picked by President John F. Kennedy to the White House detail. Agent Abraham Bolden reported overt racism by his fellow agents and outright hostility toward the "n------loving president," quoting fellow Secret Service agents on the JFK detail.
In addition to enduring all manner of personal indignities, he was concerned at the lack of professionalism in those assigned to protect the president and reported his concerns. He was told, "OK. Thanks" by his superiors. When the problems weren't addressed, Bolden requested transfer back to the Secret Service office in Chicago.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10025609769
Hes advanced in years, but still sharp.
kentuck
(111,098 posts)I would not be surprised.
Iggo
(47,558 posts)Dont get in the car.
(Funny thing is, in that movie, right after the assassin tells him thats how theyll try to get him, the assassin offers him a ride and he gets right into the car. Cracks me up every time
lol.)
2Gingersnaps
(1,000 posts)and then turn around and lay cover for a traitor who definitely did not care if Pence was hung. It would have given him the excuse he needed.
MustLoveBeagles
(11,611 posts)Hugin
(33,152 posts)Yet, they all still walk free. To run their proxy government from historically anti-United States areas of the nation.
Nope... Not getting better.
mrsadm
(1,198 posts)betsuni
(25,537 posts)cab67
(2,993 posts)Not suggesting they were assassins or anything - but perhaps they were from one of those private security services and were hired to get Pence away from the ballots?
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)Pence knew that.
Joe Biden insisted on having his old agents. They need to be investigated, too! Who was in that car? They have records.
Evolve Dammit
(16,736 posts)BobTheSubgenius
(11,563 posts)But there is no smoking gun that I know of. I sure HOPE there is one, and that we get to see it soon.
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)It was perfectly clear they planned to kidnap Pence. He knew what was taking place.
The media has never given Pence the credit he deserves. That hang Pence was clear. The Trump gang would have not been bothered at all. They are all gangsters. Some just hangers on, but very much a part of an attempted Coup.
I can not wait for the public hearings.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)was killed or disappeared. Martial law was part of the big plan.("Green Bay Sweep"
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)BlueJac
(7,838 posts)I sure hope I am wrong.
niyad
(113,325 posts)suspicious little mind can see a scenario where white satan gets into that car, and suffers a "heart attack". Not necessarily fatal, but incapacitating. chuckie steps in, and the rest goes according to plan.
Wayyyyyy too close a call.
John1956PA
(2,654 posts)The professional hitman, Javert (portrayed by Max Von Sydow) warned Condor (portrayed by Robert Redford) that, one day, a car would pull up and someone familiar to him would exit it and offer a ride. Javert's advice was to the effect, "Do not get in the car." Sure enough, the scenario eventually played out when a car pulled up and the CIA operative (portrayed by Cliff Roberson) offered a ride to Condor, who wisely declined.
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