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Celerity

(43,475 posts)
Mon May 2, 2022, 10:46 AM May 2022

Why Doesn't Anyone Like John Fetterman....except for voters?



https://thephiladelphiacitizen.org/john-fetterman/



Back during the fateful 2016 presidential election, when he was starting to get a sinking feeling in his stomach, former Governor Ed Rendell advised the Clinton campaign on a strategy to shore up Hillary’s prospects in Pennsylvania. “Put her in a car with John Fetterman,” he said, “and let them drive through the state, talking to voters in every county.”

Rendell, long the master of what in politics was once called “the common touch,” had recognized what the elite political establishment still struggles with when it comes to the 6 foot 8, tattooed, progressive Braddock, Pa mayor turned lieutenant governor: That, in the last 15 years or so, the electorate’s hunger for authenticity has trumped ideology, and that, as the Democratic Party veered more and more into its elite, bi-coastal brand of politics, its roots as the champion of working families was suddenly in jeopardy.

Alas, we know what happened. Rendell’s advice went unheeded, (one former Clinton campaign official tells me that, in their Brooklyn—Brooklyn! — campaign headquarters, there was precisely one staffer with midwest roots, cleverly nicknamed by all his Harvard and Yale colleagues “working class”), and Clinton lost Pennsylvania amid an exodus of Rust Belt middle-class voters. And now we know that wasn’t a one-off; the drift of folks — of all colors — into the Republican fold who shower after work has steadily continued.

That’s why the Fetterman story this campaign cycle is so fascinating. The Democratic establishment has once again lined up against him — locally, Mayor Kenney, labor leader Ryan Boyer, and Democratic City Committee Chair Bob Brady are all effectively behind the straight-from-central-casting centrist candidate Conor Lamb, even while Fetterman maintains a gargantuan lead in the polls with some three weeks till election day. What’s going on here?

Calculating political risks......

snip


long, in-depth article, worth your time, IMHO, if this race is of interest to you.

Ali Velshi sits on the board of this media org, btw.
71 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why Doesn't Anyone Like John Fetterman....except for voters? (Original Post) Celerity May 2022 OP
He's big, he's a little noisy Jilly_in_VA May 2022 #1
Agreed... PCIntern May 2022 #2
Only if he can get enough votes to beat Dr Oz. Which is far comradebillyboy May 2022 #4
Which is really weird considering that Oz halfulglas May 2022 #8
Sincerity, once you can fake that, you've got it made... Wounded Bear May 2022 #14
repubs have mastered the art of faking sincerity SouthernDem4ever May 2022 #31
+++++++++++++++ not fooled May 2022 #42
I think we have a better chance against Oz than the othe republican jackass, but as you said we JohnSJ May 2022 #23
+1, uponit7771 May 2022 #21
Good article. Don't know a lot about Fetterman compared to other Democratic Penn candidates, but he Hoyt May 2022 #3
We got lost driving into his neighborhood once Wicked Blue May 2022 #5
I love him to bits--he just wants to do what's right renate May 2022 #68
Bigger the win the better. OnDoutside May 2022 #6
He has the ambition, the energy, and the drive DFW May 2022 #7
"the elite, bi-coadtal Dems". . .Now where do we hear that? niyad May 2022 #9
...proudly voted for John today ... nebby70 May 2022 #10
agree, Fetterman is the real deal and has truly proven his smarts & leadership onetexan May 2022 #36
I don't live in PA Jilly_in_VA May 2022 #47
You are spot on. We met Lamb a few times at fundraisers. PittBlue May 2022 #59
Democrats need to win every single race. I don't want another republican elected ANYWHERE EVER. BComplex May 2022 #11
It's not a question of "liking" him... brooklynite May 2022 #12
"A statewide race in a purple state on his own" lees1975 May 2022 #15
Governor Wolf is not LtG Fetterman... brooklynite May 2022 #25
Why do you keep saying this? BumRushDaShow May 2022 #38
Because its my analysis... brooklynite May 2022 #49
"Fetterman won the LtG Primary with only about 35% of the vote" BumRushDaShow May 2022 #51
You see a big difference between 37.5 and "about 35"? I don't. brooklynite May 2022 #52
"You see a big difference between 37.5 and "about 35"? I don't." BumRushDaShow May 2022 #55
+++ discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2022 #56
Which one? BumRushDaShow May 2022 #57
Both really. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2022 #69
Okay lol BumRushDaShow May 2022 #70
This article and video lead me to believe... druidity33 May 2022 #45
"Conor Lamb votes for federal marijuana decriminalization" brooklynite May 2022 #50
"... the electorate's hunger for authenticity has trumped ideology ..." Authenticity? Trump? Jim__ May 2022 #13
See my post #14 above...repubs have fallen for fake authenticity...nt Wounded Bear May 2022 #16
RIGHT !!! The biggest fake is Benedict Donald is a rich white male who doesn't face the level .. uponit7771 May 2022 #22
Ikr? But, "Study finds Trump voters believe Trump is authentic, even if he appears to lie" Dark n Stormy Knight May 2022 #67
About trump voters. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2022 #71
it goes into more depth about that (and remember this is more narrowly focused on PA) Celerity May 2022 #19
"... as mayor, had the names of constituents who had been murdered actually inked into his skin..." Kali May 2022 #44
See, I think the "TV journalists" are (maybe) a little bit scared of Fetterman FakeNoose May 2022 #17
"This election might not really be about the issues" BeyondGeography May 2022 #18
"I think that's right. And Conor Lamb could well be the next Katie McGinty" BumRushDaShow May 2022 #41
Myth-making in action. Note how much of this argument is based on appearance mathematic May 2022 #20
I've said it before- Fetterman is unique, he has those "blue collar" creds. Image is everything! dsp3000 May 2022 #46
The only candidate that looks like he has done time. Sneederbunk May 2022 #24
Only one with a HS GED and multigraincracker May 2022 #40
Read this article the other day peggysue2 May 2022 #26
If anyone's interested in seeing what Fetterman is all about Sugarcoated May 2022 #27
When Fetterman wins the primarie I hope Butterflylady May 2022 #28
YEP Cosmocat May 2022 #33
The lesson will be learned after the November election brooklynite May 2022 #53
That's a rather depressing comment. progressoid May 2022 #64
I'm not saying they won't try to get him elected... brooklynite May 2022 #65
That's the attitude that has caused IA to lose a bunch of elections. progressoid May 2022 #66
+ 1 pazzyanne May 2022 #29
I know a lot of people of color don't like Fetterman NewJeffCT May 2022 #30
I've donated to Lamb in the past; this cycle I've adopted Fetterman. Donate here- I just did NBachers May 2022 #32
Fetterman is the guy that Trump pretends to be. world wide wally May 2022 #34
It's all about perception Martin Eden May 2022 #35
I think he's a rising star. Happy Hoosier May 2022 #37
Interesting that I didn't see anything TheFarseer May 2022 #39
Personally This type of activity pisses me off tiredtoo May 2022 #43
We need more Democrats like him budkin May 2022 #48
The only candidate I've donated to this cycle. d_b May 2022 #54
His trolling was EPIC BumRushDaShow May 2022 #60
And this classic d_b May 2022 #61
.... BumRushDaShow May 2022 #62
Wish we could get someone like him in Florida Just_Vote_Dem May 2022 #58
Elite/establishment/authenticity/elite bi-coastal/shower after work/centrist/establishment against/ betsuni May 2022 #63

Jilly_in_VA

(9,992 posts)
1. He's big, he's a little noisy
Mon May 2, 2022, 10:49 AM
May 2022

he's in your face, and he SPEAKS TRUTH. I can't wait to see him go toe to toe with Rafaelito, Randy Paul, and a few other idiots.

halfulglas

(1,654 posts)
8. Which is really weird considering that Oz
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:14 AM
May 2022

Is so inauthentic, the Turkish not Pennsylvanian quack medicine hawking candidate. He reminds me of something out of a Stephen King novel like The Stand. So creepy. Fetterman reminds me of when you're visiting your relatives and they tell you a new family moved in a few doors down. "Be nice to them, he's a little rough around the edges, but good people."

Wounded Bear

(58,685 posts)
14. Sincerity, once you can fake that, you've got it made...
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:51 AM
May 2022

- Groucho Marx

repubs have mastered the art of faking sincerity, as seen oh so tragically in the trump cult. The most insincere, faked-up, caricature of a "working class" guy who "speaks for the people" in fucking history was "elected" president.



Not saying that Fetterman is fake, he does have that feel of a real, this is who he is type of guy. We need more like him in the Dem party.

SouthernDem4ever

(6,617 posts)
31. repubs have mastered the art of faking sincerity
Mon May 2, 2022, 12:40 PM
May 2022

I have yet to see any evidence of this. I just think their voters are morons.

not fooled

(5,801 posts)
42. +++++++++++++++
Mon May 2, 2022, 01:40 PM
May 2022

when hedge funders and private equity predators get easily recast as blue-collar men-of-the-people in order to run for office, it means your voters are morons.

JohnSJ

(92,333 posts)
23. I think we have a better chance against Oz than the othe republican jackass, but as you said we
Mon May 2, 2022, 12:09 PM
May 2022

can’t take anything for granted


 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
3. Good article. Don't know a lot about Fetterman compared to other Democratic Penn candidates, but he
Mon May 2, 2022, 10:53 AM
May 2022

is an imposing figure with good ideas.

I think he would be a good contrast to MT Greene, Hawley, Boebert, Gaetz, Cawthorne, etc.

Wicked Blue

(5,848 posts)
5. We got lost driving into his neighborhood once
Mon May 2, 2022, 10:55 AM
May 2022

and he was outside, working on a car I believe.

He immediately came over to us and couldn't have been more helpful. Gave us excellent directions for getting back to Pittsburgh, where we were visiting a relative. Somehow I got a vibe that he was headed for great things in the future.

My husband said we had just met John Fetterman and told me what he knew about the man, how he cared for his community.

renate

(13,776 posts)
68. I love him to bits--he just wants to do what's right
Tue May 3, 2022, 04:18 AM
May 2022

And I love his wife, who does good things for the disadvantaged. And his dogs, who are dogs. He and Giselle seem like excellent parents, too. Just good people through and through.

DFW

(54,430 posts)
7. He has the ambition, the energy, and the drive
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:04 AM
May 2022

I wish he would ditch the look of one of the sterner executioners for the Spanish Inquisition. I get the "rugged individualist" role, but it will only carry him so far in a state as diverse as Pennsylvania. Running quotes of support from Elizabeth Warren won't help him much either. They will ring true with people who are already on his side, but will put off the ones in the middle who are just starting to take a look. He's new, he's fresh, he has own style. Fine, WE know that, but the whole state will be voting, so he has to appeal to a very diverse electorate--not just people who think like we do.

nebby70

(471 posts)
10. ...proudly voted for John today ...
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:23 AM
May 2022

... he is the real deal ...
... Lamb is charming and all, but John has the history of DOING ...
... he'll do fine and we've gotta get over judging a book by it's cover ...

onetexan

(13,056 posts)
36. agree, Fetterman is the real deal and has truly proven his smarts & leadership
Mon May 2, 2022, 01:08 PM
May 2022

Conor Lamb needs to get a few more years under his belt to prove himself. I think his head is getting a little too big.

Jilly_in_VA

(9,992 posts)
47. I don't live in PA
Mon May 2, 2022, 03:25 PM
May 2022

but I contributed to Fetterman. I think Lamb is just...colorless and boring in the extreme. He may be a good Democrat but geez.

PittBlue

(4,227 posts)
59. You are spot on. We met Lamb a few times at fundraisers.
Mon May 2, 2022, 08:07 PM
May 2022

I was never impressed with him. We also met Fetterman when he was running for Lt. Governor. He is a brilliant man and is just what we Democrats need! We moved from PA last year and unfortunately I cannot vote for him.

BComplex

(8,059 posts)
11. Democrats need to win every single race. I don't want another republican elected ANYWHERE EVER.
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:33 AM
May 2022

If a democrat is popular locally, with people who ACTUALLY KNOW THEM, and they're ahead in the polls, VOTE FOR THEM.

WTF???

brooklynite

(94,682 posts)
12. It's not a question of "liking" him...
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:40 AM
May 2022

I'm not convinced that he can win a Statewide race in a Purple State on his own. He appeals to the Democratic base, but he's not the type of Senator Pennsylvanians have elected for the past 30-40 years. And based on my personal meeting with him, I can't see the message he'll offer to the Independents and moderate Republicans he'll need to win.

lees1975

(3,874 posts)
15. "A statewide race in a purple state on his own"
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:53 AM
May 2022

The same claim was made about Governor Wolf when they ran on the same ticket, "he appeals to the Democratic base." In elections for statewide office in Pennsylvania in recent years, that "Democratic base" which re-elected Bob Casey four years ago, runs around 58% of the vote in off year elections. Fetterman and Wolf got 58%.

I think this seat is going to flip, and I think Fetterman will pull down 55% of the vote or better.

brooklynite

(94,682 posts)
25. Governor Wolf is not LtG Fetterman...
Mon May 2, 2022, 12:14 PM
May 2022

...and in my analysis, Wolf carried both of them over the line. Very few voters pay attention to whom the LtG candidate is in the General Election.

brooklynite

(94,682 posts)
49. Because its my analysis...
Mon May 2, 2022, 03:40 PM
May 2022

Fetterman won the LtG Primary with only about 35% of the vote. That doesn't suggest a large November turnout on his behalf in November. As for comparing 2018 with 2014, there are many other factors that could come into play: (incumbency vs non-Incumbency, Republican opponent, etc.).

I learned politics in Pennsylvania, and I've studied the kinds of candidates they tend to elect Statewide FOR THE SENATE. Fetterman doesn't fit the model I see as successful, and he didn't address those concerns when we met.

BumRushDaShow

(129,326 posts)
51. "Fetterman won the LtG Primary with only about 35% of the vote"
Mon May 2, 2022, 04:20 PM
May 2022

Um no....




I learned politics in Pennsylvania, and I've studied the kinds of candidates they tend to elect Statewide FOR THE SENATE.


But simply looking up the actual results is not do-able?

Your mind had already been made up when you supposedly "met" Fetterman.

And based on your "analysis", why did Arlen Specter (formerly a Democrat many decades ago when he tried to run as a Democrat for the District Attorney here in Philly, and when he didn't get the "machine endorsement", switched parties, ran as a Republican, and then won the position)?

And then fast forward with Specter as a GOP Senator (after his 1980 election and 5 terms) - why did he lose after a party switch back to being a Democrat, who went on to lose to teabagger Toomey for a Senate seat that he had held for 30 years?

And why the hell did Katie McGinty get LESS votes than Hillary Clinton in 2016 when McGinty ran against Toomey for that same Senate seat?

https://www.electionreturns.pa.gov/General/OfficeResults?OfficeID=2&ElectionID=54&ElectionType=G&IsActive=0



https://www.electionreturns.pa.gov/General/OfficeResults?OfficeID=1&ElectionID=54&ElectionType=G&IsActive=0

brooklynite

(94,682 posts)
52. You see a big difference between 37.5 and "about 35"? I don't.
Mon May 2, 2022, 04:36 PM
May 2022

As for "making up my mind", I don't think you understand my process, which I've refined over the past decade. I don't look for candidates to "like"; I look for candidates who I think can win in a competitive environment, regardless of whether they're more liberal or more conservative than I am. Unless I have a personal relationship with them, I don't like (or dislike) any of them. I met with all three candidates for an hour each. Two of them (Lamb and Kenyatta) were able to explain their political philosophy, their big issues and what they wanted to do once elected. Fetterman didn't. The meeting wasn't adversarial; if I had made my mind up ahead of time, I'd have had no reason to meet with him or for him to meet with me.

BumRushDaShow

(129,326 posts)
55. "You see a big difference between 37.5 and "about 35"? I don't."
Mon May 2, 2022, 05:48 PM
May 2022

Last edited Mon May 2, 2022, 06:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Because you apparently neglected to look at the rest of the field and results for that primary, and do some extrapolation.

Analysis: Scandal surrounding Lt. Gov. Stack could hurt Wolf in 2018 election

BRAD BUMSTED and SAM JANESCH | The Caucus May 6, 2017


HARRISBURG — The mood of Pennsylvania voters, incensed about the self-serving actions of their politicians, could propel the scandal surrounding Lt. Gov. Mike Stack and his wife, Tonya, beyond the normal shelf life of a few weeks or months into an issue in the 2018 election that could hurt Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf, political analysts say.

It’s clear Wolf wants Stack off the ticket. And he never chose him in the first place, given lieutenant governor and gubernatorial candidates run separately in the primaries. Stack and his wife allegedly heaped verbal abuse on members of their state police security detail and their mansion staff, prompting complaints to the Wolf administration, The Caucus first reported last month. Inspector General Bruce Beemer is said to be near completion of a report that will be delivered to the governor.

Wolf hasn’t said whether he will release the report to the public, but the allegations have already been widely reported across the state, as have Stack’s apologies and denials of any “abuse.” Stack’s wife was allegedly the worst offender, sources say. But a source sympathetic to Stack says the lieutenant governor can’t “throw her under the bus.” As the elected official, Stack is still responsible. The inspector general’s report will likely determine whether Wolf will need to take decisive action to endorse and fund an alternative candidate for lieutenant governor.

The Stacks’ conduct, if proven, is “appalling,” said Moe Coleman, director emeritus of the Institute of Politics at the University of Pittsburgh. Wolf should move with “party elders” to leverage Stack out of the 2018 primary and then recommend a running mate whose campaign the multimillionaire Wolf could help finance, Coleman said. Stack has insisted he is running for re-election.

https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/analysis-scandal-surrounding-lt-gov-stack-could-hurt-wolf-in-2018-election/article_e08f5f28-3274-11e7-bcc5-3fad7a098ca3.html


Pa. Lt. Gov Mike Stack lost primary race because of geography, not scandals: spokesman

Published: May. 16, 2018, 4:13 a.m.

(snip)

When Stack won the Democratic primary in 2014, Stack collected more than 351,000 votes for nearly 47 percent of the vote. Political newcomer Nina Ahmad, of Philadelphia, joined the race late this year but with a war chest of about $800,000, which helped to propel her to a second-place finish in the Democratic primary with more than 23 percent of the votes.

Chester County Commissioner Kathi Cozzone surprised some people with a strong showing in third place, with more than 18 percent of the vote. She was the first name that appeared on the ballot, which carries an advantage, but had only raised about $62,000. Stack, meanwhile, had to settle for less than 17 percent of the votes, even though he had amassed nearly $1 million for the primary race. The only candidate he beat was Montgomery County businessman Roy Sosa, who finished with just more than three percent of the vote.

Stack's campaign spokesman, Marks, said it takes $3 million to run a competitive statewide race, especially when geography is working against a candidate. The loss was the first time a sitting lieutenant governor had lost in a primary, according to the Associated Press.

(snip)

https://www.pennlive.com/politics/2018/05/pa_lt_gov_mike_stack_john_fett.html


If Stack had not run, one could take that 17% of the vote that he did get, and add it to the 37% for what? Right. 54%.

And I say this as someone who voted for the runner up - Nina Ahmad - for that primary. But I sure as hell warmed to Fetterman after seeing this ad - and I have posted it many times on DU but it cuts to the chase of his "personality" -



And interestingly enough, just as Tom Wolf is an alumnus of the Peace Corps, John Fetterman (as "the next generation" ) is an alumnus of AmeriCorps. That netted Fetterman a nod on President Obama's "Champions of Change" list -

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/champions/americorps-alums/john-fetterman -



As for "making up my mind", I don't think you understand my process, which I've refined over the past decade. I don't look for candidates to "like"; I look for candidates who I think can win in a competitive environment, regardless of whether they're more liberal or more conservative than I am. Unless I have a personal relationship with them, I don't like (or dislike) any of them. I met with all three candidates for an hour each. Two of them (Lamb and Kenyatta) were able to explain their political philosophy, their big issues and what they wanted to do once elected. Fetterman didn't. The meeting wasn't adversarial; if I had made my mind up ahead of time, I'd have had no reason to meet with him or for him to meet with me.


Fetterman reminds me a lot of Cory Booker - both men were mayors of a city (where obviously Newark, NJ is many times larger than Braddock, PA), but both men also "had their hearts in the right place" and made the effort to literally get out into the streets to WALK THE WALK AND ACT.

E.g., when Booker was out there digging people out of the snow -



Democrats have ceded the term "populist" to the GOP for some idiotic reason. I see Fetterman as a literal "liberal populist". The "populist" doesn't necessarily hue to a strict talking point party line but manages to tap into certain perspectives of the philosophy of the party that can be highlighted and added to the party's repertoire to broaden the message.

The fact that D.A. Larry Krasner won a 2nd term in office here in Philly without the "party machine" vote, should give some hints regarding how some things are bubbling under the surface and manifesting here.

BumRushDaShow

(129,326 posts)
70. Okay lol
Tue May 3, 2022, 11:46 AM
May 2022

I actually stumbled on an article yesterday (I think from back during that 2018 election) that noted the contrast of what was the millionaire buttoned-up shirt, suit and tie-wearing Wolf vs the double pocket casual shirt and jeans-wearing Fetterman, as sortof like an "odd couple".

But in my mind, both are true "old school 'liberals'" - one who chose to go into business and the other into public service. Both were involved in service activities that were designed to help people (Peace Corps and AmeriCorps). And they are 2 sides of the same coin.

druidity33

(6,446 posts)
45. This article and video lead me to believe...
Mon May 2, 2022, 03:01 PM
May 2022

he can work to persuade Rs and Indys that he'd be an excellent choice. And of course his righteous crusade to legalize weed. Does Conor Lamb support legal weed?

https://thephiladelphiacitizen.org/watch-john-fetterman-jeff-bartos/

brooklynite

(94,682 posts)
50. "Conor Lamb votes for federal marijuana decriminalization"
Mon May 2, 2022, 03:49 PM
May 2022
https://triblive.com/news/politics-election/conor-lamb-votes-for-federal-marijuana-decriminalization-after-opposing-it-in-2020/

That said, I'm not convinced marijuana is the "killer issue" people here seem to grant it. Among all the States that have legalized it, there has never been a pro-marijuana candidate who blew up a political campaign and unexpectedly won an election on that basis.

Jim__

(14,082 posts)
13. "... the electorate's hunger for authenticity has trumped ideology ..." Authenticity? Trump?
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:43 AM
May 2022

A significant part of the electorate has turned toward Trump and Q-anon. That is not a turn toward authenticity.

uponit7771

(90,348 posts)
22. RIGHT !!! The biggest fake is Benedict Donald is a rich white male who doesn't face the level ..
Mon May 2, 2022, 12:06 PM
May 2022

... of legal scrutiny others face therefore he feels free to do what he wants.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,771 posts)
67. Ikr? But, "Study finds Trump voters believe Trump is authentic, even if he appears to lie"
Tue May 3, 2022, 03:37 AM
May 2022
A post-election survey suggests that Trump voters continue to stand by the president due to his perceived authenticity, despite appearing to be a "lying demagogue."

According to the study, published Wednesday by the American Sociological Review, voters can find candidates "authentically appealing" even when a candidate lies.

The study showed that even when voters believe a candidate is untruthful, they can still view that candidate as an “authentic champion of constituency.”

Researchers from the Tepper School of Business at Carnegie Mellon and the MIT Sloan School surveyed 400 people. They conducted two online experiments on a simulated college election.

The study concluded that Trump supporters were more enthusiastic in their support of him as a candidate to the extent that they justified Trump’s lie as a form of "symbolic protest." The more they viewed him as an act of protest, the more they believed him to be authentic.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/05/02/trump-supporters-were-more-enthusiastic-their-support-him-candidate-extent-they-justified-trumps-lie/573371002/

Abstract
We develop and test a theory to address a puzzling pattern that has been discussed widely
since the 2016 U.S. presidential election and reproduced here in a post-election survey:
how can a constituency of voters find a candidate “authentically appealing” (i.e., view him
positively as authentic) even though he is a “lying demagogue” (someone who deliberately
tells lies and appeals to non-normative private prejudices)?

Key to the theory are two points:
(1) “common-knowledge” lies may be understood as flagrant violations of the norm of truthtelling; and (2) when a political system is suffering from a “crisis of legitimacy” (Lipset
1959) with respect to at least one political constituency, members of that constituency will
be motivated to see a flagrant violator of established norms as an authentic champion of its interests.

Two online vignette experiments on a simulated college election support our theory.
These results demonstrate that mere partisanship is insufficient to explain sharp differences
in how lying demagoguery is perceived, and that several oft-discussed factors—information
access, culture, language, and gender—are not necessary for explaining such differences.
Rather, for the lying demagogue to have authentic appeal, it is sufficient that one side of a
social divide regards the political system as flawed or illegitimate
https://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/attach/journals/feb18asrfeature.pdf

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,481 posts)
71. About trump voters.
Tue May 3, 2022, 01:16 PM
May 2022

IMO, there are few factors that aren't mentioned much or are sometimes considered less important. These are factors in the 2016 and 2020 elections that played a role, again, just my opinion.

Just a few thoughts up front about people. People interact by "connecting". I don't really believe that trump eats McFood on any regular basis but saying that gives folks a "connection" to just like remembering. I'm sure that the lying filth has 3 people following him everywhere ready to make him some fresh lobster salad or whatever he wants. Also, decision fatigue and information overload play huge roles when campaign issues get complicated.

Many trump voters were either a few cans short of a 6 pack or just lacking the plastic thing to hold it all together. These folks are primed for actions of the "shoot from the hip" nature.

We're talking about someone who's aggressively denigrating and prone to harsh and insulting statements... emotional outbursts. Folks that have a poor ratio of thinking with glands v brains would be prone to liking trump.

Nothing unites people like a common enemy. For some people just that much may be enough to swing them.


Aside from that, your username reminds me of a favorite Warren Zevon song.

The deal was made in Denmark on a dark and stormy day
So he set out for Biafra to join the bloody fray

Celerity

(43,475 posts)
19. it goes into more depth about that (and remember this is more narrowly focused on PA)
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:57 AM
May 2022
Lamb has done his best to reflect this tradition of political pragmatism, but to no avail, and that ought to be a wake-up call about the type of candidates these times call for. We’ve seen a parade of Conor Lambs before, right? Blow-dried candidates right out of central casting who hit their marks time and again with pithy, if unexciting, talking points.

Maybe it’s time to consider that, as inequality and opportunity gaps have soared these last 15 years, these central casting candidates are precisely what the electorate has been rejecting all this while. Think of it; what was the election of Barack Obama — and especially the repudiation of Mitt Romney — really about, other than a refutation of the typical pol? What was Trump, for that matter?

This election might not really be about the issues

If party elders are making decisions on Fetterman based on his stance on issues — he’s too far left — they just might be missing the point. As Rendell intuited six years ago, he’s something different, and maybe representative of a way back for Democrats into the good graces of working-class voters. A dude who, as mayor, had the names of constituents who had been murdered actually inked into his skin just might be the kind of contrast against plutocrats like Oz or McCormick that plays well in a general election.



snip

So let’s apply the Oxman postulate to this race. Has there been a better politician in recent years at branding himself than Fetterman? Lamb and Kenyatta haven’t stood a chance at convincing voters that what you see with this guy ain’t what you get. Fetterman’s lead has been big enough that he hasn’t even needed to try and define his opponents, other than shrugging off their attacks as those we’ve always seen lobbed by career pols.

And the stakes? Fetterman’s ads attest to a working-class dystopia out there, an overly-foreboding tone perhaps to those of us in the elite bubble, but one that is perhaps right on for those increasingly left behind in the age of stagnant wages, rising inequality, and oncoming automation.

Kali

(55,019 posts)
44. "... as mayor, had the names of constituents who had been murdered actually inked into his skin..."
Mon May 2, 2022, 02:44 PM
May 2022

wow

FakeNoose

(32,706 posts)
17. See, I think the "TV journalists" are (maybe) a little bit scared of Fetterman
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:54 AM
May 2022

He's actually very likable, not the least bit scary, and he's a true liberal/progressive. He doesn't project a slick movie star image of a liberal politician, so they don't really know how to relate to him. But it's not fair to judge John Fetterman on looks alone. His track record as mayor of Braddock and as Lt. Governor speaks for itself.

I believe independent, non-party-affiliated Pennsylvanians will give him a chance, as long as they're willing to listen to his ideas. He really is one of us and he cares about our state. He's been working for us for a long time.

Dr. Oz is a joke and a TV huckster. I'd be shocked if voters chose him over John Fetterman.



BeyondGeography

(39,377 posts)
18. "This election might not really be about the issues"
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:57 AM
May 2022

I think that’s right. And Conor Lamb could well be the next Katie McGinty.

BumRushDaShow

(129,326 posts)
41. "I think that's right. And Conor Lamb could well be the next Katie McGinty"
Mon May 2, 2022, 01:34 PM
May 2022

The resulting vote tally of that race was significant in that it really established the vote-splitting that was going on with the top-of-the-state-ticket races, and that was before they passed Act-77 that got rid of straight-party voting.

I.e., Hillary Clinton got more votes during that election than Katie McGinty.

mathematic

(1,439 posts)
20. Myth-making in action. Note how much of this argument is based on appearance
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:59 AM
May 2022

Fetterman:
6 foot 8
tattooed
pictures of bald, overweight, goateed Fetterman throughout the piece

Lamb:
straight-from-central-casting
ken doll-like hairdo
Blow-dried candidates right out of central casting
Wonder Bread candidate

It says something when halfway down the article I started to wonder if the author was bald. Edited, after I found a pic of the author: he's completely bald. Remarkable!


This article is strangely dancing around it's main point: the (white) people of PA will support Fetterman over Lamb because he looks like them. I don't disagree with that, actually. I just think it's dumb to make this about who's politics, Fetterman's or Lamb's is more popular in PA (it's Lambs).

dsp3000

(487 posts)
46. I've said it before- Fetterman is unique, he has those "blue collar" creds. Image is everything!
Mon May 2, 2022, 03:17 PM
May 2022

I've said this in every fetterman post in this forum. Trump got elected on his personality. this electorate will do the same for fetterman and I feel he'll be able to pick off alot of blue collar trump voters that give a passing glance on politics.

peggysue2

(10,836 posts)
26. Read this article the other day
Mon May 2, 2022, 12:15 PM
May 2022

I did not know about the Rendell suggestion of teaming up Clinton and Fetterman in PA. Or maybe the name simply didn't click. But it's certainly an indication that even then PA powerbrokers had their eye on Fetterman as the working class whisperer.

Yes, Fetterman does not fit the mold of your average politician. He doesn't look the part, doesn't sound like anyone else in the pack. But . . . I think we all can agree that voters are hungry for someone different, 'authentic,' the real deal, a candidate that lights a fire under the electorate. I worry about the man's debate skills. Still do, not for the primary but the GE.

However, out on the campaign trail, out at the meet and greets with voters, John Fetterman is a star, someone who can excite, inspire and give people hope that not only can we win this thing but send someone to the US Senate who will actually serve the American people.

That's a gift.

So yes, he's odd, different, a counterpoint to the poise and professional appearance of a Conor Lamb who on paper is the perfect candidate, a candidate we've seen time and time again. And maybe that's the point.

John Fetterman's difference is winning the hearts and minds of the electorate. He's an unapologetic liberal who is willing to stand firmly on Democratic values. No weasel words or tap-dancing. He's progressive on many issues but doesn't hesitate bucking the progressive wing when his positions diverge.

Maybe John Fetterman is the sort of candidate we would have more likely run across pre-television when appearance and presentation were less important than what a man stood for in words, policy positions and heart.

Whatever the case, the voters and the people who know him love this man.

Let's get it done!

Butterflylady

(3,546 posts)
28. When Fetterman wins the primarie I hope
Mon May 2, 2022, 12:29 PM
May 2022

The head of state democratic party learns a lesson from this. The people want someone who isn't afraid to be different. Fetterman has gone to all the counties of PA. Even the reddest of red. Now that's a man who shows courage and love for the whole state.

brooklynite

(94,682 posts)
53. The lesson will be learned after the November election
Mon May 2, 2022, 04:42 PM
May 2022

Some people here don't believe it, but Party officials generally LIKE to win elections. Get him over the finish line, and the State Party Chair (whom I know) will pay attention.

progressoid

(49,992 posts)
64. That's a rather depressing comment.
Mon May 2, 2022, 09:32 PM
May 2022
"Get him over the finish line, and the State Party Chair will pay attention."

So they won't pay attention until he wins the election? Geez, maybe paying attention during the election would be helpful.

brooklynite

(94,682 posts)
65. I'm not saying they won't try to get him elected...
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:05 PM
May 2022

I’m saying their inclination will be to nominate more Mai stream candidates until someone different actually shows they can win.

progressoid

(49,992 posts)
66. That's the attitude that has caused IA to lose a bunch of elections.
Mon May 2, 2022, 11:13 PM
May 2022

The supposed main stream candidate gets support from the party elites. Then that milquetoast candidate runs a campaign based on 1970's tactics and the party is stunned that they lost. Again.

Lather, rinse, repeat.



NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
30. I know a lot of people of color don't like Fetterman
Mon May 2, 2022, 12:38 PM
May 2022

for the incident where he chased down & pulled a shotgun on a black guy he mistakenly thought had fired a gun, and some progressive don't like him because of that as well.

He seems pretty accessible and self-deprecating on Twitter (he seems genuinely to feel lucky to have met his wife - calling himself "Shrek" because he's just a big ogre)

Martin Eden

(12,874 posts)
35. It's all about perception
Mon May 2, 2022, 12:52 PM
May 2022

Because Republican policies favor the wealthy elite at the expense of blue collar workers.

Happy Hoosier

(7,367 posts)
37. I think he's a rising star.
Mon May 2, 2022, 01:10 PM
May 2022

Is he perfect? Nope. Who is? But he's a real dude and I think he can take a seat for us.

TheFarseer

(9,323 posts)
39. Interesting that I didn't see anything
Mon May 2, 2022, 01:12 PM
May 2022

about his stance on issues or anything he’s campaigning on. I’m afraid all the consultants and talking heads will infer that white bread candidates just need to get some tats and put on a Slayer Tshirt to connect with voters.

tiredtoo

(2,949 posts)
43. Personally This type of activity pisses me off
Mon May 2, 2022, 01:59 PM
May 2022

While a staunch Democratic supporter, I have had many disagreements with the party and their actions. This goes all the way down to the local levels. Last election i noticed there was no Democratic candidate running for a seat on the local parks committee. I put myself up as a write in candidate in the primary election. Didn't really want to be on the committee but felt we should have a candidate in every race. This action took place late in election season so I was to late to actually register for position. Where with enough signatures or a fee I would be on ballot. So write in was my only possibility. After the election i called the county clerk to see how i had done. He told me the good news and the bad news. Good I had won the election, Bad the state party said I needed at least 5 percent of the vote won by the biggest Democratic candidate. the candidate was our state senator and I did not get 5 percent of the votes she got.
Resulting in no Democratic name on the ballot for parks committee. Why can't the powers that be in our party let the people decide what's best?

 

d_b

(7,463 posts)
54. The only candidate I've donated to this cycle.
Mon May 2, 2022, 04:56 PM
May 2022

I fell for this dude back in 2020 when he was trolling Republicans over the Big Lie.

Wish I could vote for him.

BumRushDaShow

(129,326 posts)
60. His trolling was EPIC
Mon May 2, 2022, 08:19 PM
May 2022



John Fetterman
@JohnFetterman
·
Dec 21, 2020
🚨 VOTER FRAUD IN PA FOUND🚨

🚨DEAD PEOPLE VOTE IN PA 🚨

... for President Trump. 😆
Jeremy Roebuck
@jeremyrroebuck
Is this our first documented case of an actual ballot cast in the name of a verified dead person in the Philly region during the 2020 election? Note: The man was caught and charged by authorities. He also cast the fraudulent ballot for Trump.
Image
John Fetterman
@JohnFetterman
My dude in Texas owes me $3M now. X 3️⃣. 👇
4:07 PM · Dec 21, 2020





John Fetterman
@JohnFetterman
·
Dec 21, 2020
Replying to @JohnFetterman
My dude in Texas owes me $3M now. X 3️⃣. 👇
John Fetterman
@JohnFetterman
me thinking about that handsome reward rn
4:10 PM · Dec 21, 2020





John Fetterman
@JohnFetterman
·
Dec 21, 2020
Replying to @JohnFetterman
me thinking about that handsome reward rn
John Fetterman
@JohnFetterman
Best Case of Voter Fraud in PA:

Dude in Forty Fort
41%
“Returns in sunglasses”
41.2%
It’s Bartman!!
17.8%

7,023 votes·Final results
4:15 PM · Dec 21, 2020





John Fetterman
@JohnFetterman
·
Jul 5, 2021
Shouting out the most famous case of voter fraud from 2020: “My dude from Forty Fort” -in Forty Fort PA-while wearing a “My Dude in Forty Fort” T-shirt is *truly* next level. 🤩

#💀👵🏻 🗳
Image
John Fetterman
@JohnFetterman
ICYMI: My dude in Forty Fort represented 20% of the TOTAL VOTER FRAUD in Pennsylvania during the 2020 election out of 7M ballots cast.

PAGOP: We must change PA’s constitution for 2024 to mandatory voter ID because 5 dead moms all voted for Trump.
Election 2020 Pennsylvania Mail-In Voting
citizensvoice.com
Forty Fort man applied for a ballot for his deceased mother, detectives allege
A Forty Fort man forged the name and signature of his deceased mother on an application for an absentee ballot, prosecutors allege.
9:16 AM · Jul 5, 2021 from Pennsylvania, USA


When we were endlessly pummeled by the loons with lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit, both Fetterman and Shapiro set the ship right, with the much appreciated help of Marc Elias and his team.

Just_Vote_Dem

(2,817 posts)
58. Wish we could get someone like him in Florida
Mon May 2, 2022, 07:40 PM
May 2022

A Democrat like him could trounce DeSatan in the governor's race IMO.

betsuni

(25,596 posts)
63. Elite/establishment/authenticity/elite bi-coastal/shower after work/centrist/establishment against/
Mon May 2, 2022, 08:35 PM
May 2022

working families/Hillary corrupt beholden/elite bubble.

Author forgot to insult Democrats as "neoliberal." The way some people go on you'd think all Democrats are extremely rich upper class elite establishment FDR types who enjoy martinis and smoked oysters every cocktail hour, and cigars of course. But somehow, unlike extremely rich upper class elite establishment FDR, Democrats know nothing or care nothing about the working/middle classes. What is the point of this lie?

And Hillary (middle class background) campaigned extensively in Pennsylvania. That election wasn't about economics or policy. White working class votes against their own economic interests and they like it.

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