General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDFW
(54,410 posts)We can't tax unrealized gains because (besides being unrealized, and can thus theoretically be wiped out) their value is purely theoretical, on paper only. However, why, then, are they suddenly good as collateral for a multi-billion dollar purchase? If the value of the shares is vulnerable to a tax authority, it should be just as vulnerable to a lending entity. I realize that a lending entity can take market positions to cover their loss risk, but that only makes sense if the collateral shares are their property to play with. That only becomes the case if the loan is defaulted on.
Actually, if I were a lender, I would never agree to such conditions, but apparently that is standard practice. If an unrealized gain is too nebulous to be taxed (which I agree with), then how come someone finds it solid enough to lend a few billion against it?
From my ignorant, uneducated point of view, I would see this as an either/or situation. Obviously, I don't don't know the ins and outs of the mechanics of high finance, so I'm sure there is an explanation of how a lender insulates itself against a loss, but I don't get how a lender can play with the value of the collateral if no title of ownership has passed. And yet, the lender would HAVE to have that option to secure the value of the loan as long as it is outstanding.
Luckily for me, I will never be confronted with such intricate financial intrigue, and I don't own stock in any companies that play that game. According to some friends back in Texas who have made a lot of money investing in Tesla, I have been way too conservative in my practices. However, I don't have the kind of money that would have made me millions even if I HAD invested "wisely," So it's just a spectator sport for me.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,322 posts)both in terms of the interest they get paid (so that, if all goes well, they come out ahead) and the amount of shares that must be put up as collateral - so that a big drop in the share price doesn't leave them too exposed. But Musk (or whoever) still finds this more profitable (and preferable, because he keeps the control over Tesla) than selling, and paying tax on the capital gain.
DFW
(54,410 posts)I'd ask my daughter, but I'm afraid I wouldn't understand a word she said. Her official title is "international corporate finance attorney," and she gets paid a LOT of money to make sure transactions like that keep strictly within existing laws of all countries involved. She was just here overnight last Friday to visit friends and see a soccer game (Düsseldorf won!). She is fully bi-lingual, speaks English to me, German to my wife, and a mish-mosh of the two when we're all at the breakfast table. But when she gets a call from work, though it's either English or German (she works for the German arm of a big NYC law firm), I suddenly no longer understand a word of what she is talking about.