One has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other. Leave it to Nina to conflate the 2.

[Budi]

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[AZSkiffyGeek]

1. Gotta keep the grift going... nt

[Budi]

3. Waiting to see how many anti Democratic slogans she can wrap under the cover of pro life.

...

[Hugh_Lebowski]

2. Not that I'm a Nina fan, but I see her point here

I don't quite agree that they're un-relatable to one another

[Budi]

7. The SC fiasco with Roe & Pro-life has nothing to do with M4A.

NOTHING.

Actually It'd be kinda helpful if Nina (or anyone) would answer the ever burning question as to what M4A even means.
Because as of right now there is no policy plan to present.

It's just a handy Campaign Slogan.
6 & 1/2 years later & Where's the policy plan that lays it all out?
How is it funded & where's the cost breakdown? What & who is covered & where's the limit?

What exactly is M4A.
Maybe somdone here can give us some clue as to what it is & how it affects 300,000 million people.

Still waiting...

[Hugh_Lebowski]

18. How's this ... if you claim you are 'pro-life', you should support universal health care

Because people die due to lack of affordable health care, 1000's a day I'd imagine, in the US alone.

You see the correlation now?

[FoxNewsSucks]

30. Some people just like to bash liberals.

Even here on a liberal site.

[lapucelle]

116. This is a Democratic site. People who refuse to support Democratic nominees

and Democratic general election candidates deserve to be called out often and loudly.

[FoxNewsSucks]

130. What about Democratic politicians who refuse to support their Democratic President?

Should they be called out loudly and often?

[lapucelle]

131. Last time I checked, Democrats are allowed to disagree on policy.

Most Democrats have a very high “votes with Biden” rating.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-congress-votes/house/

====================================================



====================================================



=====================================================

[FoxNewsSucks]

132. That statistic has been shown to be pointless.

I'd like to see a rating that includes every issue that was blocked by a democrat as well. Since 538 only counts things that actually are allowed a vote, the "with-Biden" number is artificially high.

[lapucelle]

143. Who has shown Nate Silver's data to be "pointless"?

What votes have been "blocked" in the House?

[brush]

31. Why tie them together? M4All is fine but is not top of the news...

so why do that? It's tangential to Pro-life but so is the need-to-be-explained defund the police to stop killer cops from taking life. Or the recently halted child tax credits that raised tens of thousands of kids from poverty and food insecurity, also tangentially related to pro-life.

There's merit to the term "keep it simple, stupid." Let's not complicate things that don't need to come with an explanation.

[Cha]

57. I think it's a Distraciton.. NT advocated 3rd Party

voting in the General Election 2016.. she's a big part of this fucking problem.

💙💛

[brush]

59. Hi, Cha. Yeah, I remember. She's a Justice Democrat...

and is a continual uproar about something. Just lost again to Shontel Brown.

[Cha]

62. Yeah, SO Happy Rep Shontel Bronw WON!!

brush

💙💛

[LiberalFighter]

146. How many times has she lost now?

[Budi]

35. She's using the sudden horror of loss of Roe to sell the slogan M4A

Nina should explain the M4A policy to sell it rather than grift off of this avoidable catastrophy for women & human rights.

She HAS NO POLICY TO SELL M4A.
None.
It doesn't even exist.

[Nixie]

107. Exactly. It's just a fantasy that was rejected by voters That's reality.

These phony smoke shows have gotten so old and tired. It’s just babbling. There is no M4a plan. And whatever fantasy there was didn’t get by voters. Whoever is indulging these fantasies is about grifting or sour grapes.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

135. Just so I'm clear

When someone doesn't win an election and they advocate something you don't agree with, the result of that election is that it was "rejected by voters" and that's the way it goes.

When someone doesn't win an election and they advocate something you DO agree with, the result of that election is a travesty and the fault of everyone else except the candidate that lost.

Makes sense.

[Nixie]

154. Just so you're clear, it's actually two elections that were lost.

So the narrative that lost twice is the narrative that voters rejected twice. Actually, that part is clear so it seems your post is what doesn’t make sense, sorry. It seems like an opportunity to try and find something to stir up. *edit

And M4a is just a word cloud at this point. It’s not a real thing other than sloganeering.

*this thread is from a week ago.

[yardwork]

36. Universal healthcare is not identical to Medicare for all.

One is an aspiration. The other is a policy proposal that might help achieve the aspiration.

I'm strongly in favor of universal healthcare. I'm not sure that Medicare for all will get us there, especially when some people use it as cudgel/litmus test to divide Democrats.

I agree with the OP.

[Budi]

47. They can't even explain M4A so the go-to sell is 'universal health care!'. Which it is not

Conflation of a slogan with a reality to sell a slogan.
That's been their game play.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

53. I'm not a M4A fan, and ESPECIALLY not for using that name ...

My point is if Nina believes M4A means universal health care (and believes it's the only practical means to achieve it), then it would not be out of line to say that's it's ridiculous to claim you're 'pro-life' ... and oppose it. There likely IS a legitimate correlation in HER mind, even if others could pick it apart as you have here.

She should've said Universal Health Care, I wholly agree.

But it seems like some are reading this argument in the converse, such as that it implies that if you're pro-choice, you should therefore be pro-M4A. But that doesn't logically follow. Pro-Choice is specific to abortion, whereas 'pro-life' implies a much broader stance i.e. 'all life', for one thing, but it doesn't even logically follow period.

Anyways, I don't really like her, or M4A (as a name, at minimum), so ... I'm done explaining my point, no need to reply

[Budi]

55. When we have to explain what she might have meant to say...

..its gaslighting bullshit.

[sheshe2]

73. +1000

When it has to be explained what she meant, she already lost.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

109. I think what she meant was pretty obviously ... what I said. I had no confusion.

People don't like her, I get it. I don't either. Perhaps she had bad intent that I'm not realizing, but it's just because I'm reading the actual words and not trying to do a mind-reading act.

Interestingly, I believe had Bernie said the exact same thing, the reaction would be entirely different here.

Everyone would know he's trolling pro-life people for their logical inconsistency, not Democrats.

[betsuni]

81. +1

[Caliman73]

69. While that statement is accurate, Turner is using the argument in bad faith.

Look, we are liberals/progressives/left. We understand nuance. We are not binary thinkers like conservatives. It isn't either or.

The problem is that Nina Turner is bashing her opponents, who are not (as they should be) the Conservatives that are attacking women's rights. She is bashing on Democrats who she feels wronged her in her recent election.

Who is more likely to try to advance Medicare for All? Democrats or Republicans? She is lashing out at Democrats becaue Shontel Brown trounced her. Because the people in her district didn't want her brand of politics. Turner is bitter and she is not using her position to help the situation but to try to settle scores.

Bernie Sanders is not saying "Democrats suck", though he has pointed out problems. He knows that it is conservatives who are attacking women, healthcare, and bodily autonomy. AOC may push Democrats to do more, but she is not engaging in binary processes like Turner is.

This is a vendetta by Turner, not a real appeal to do something on M4All.

[sheshe2]

74. Nina always bashes Democrats.

She hates us and our "half bowl of shit" President.

Her words are meaningless to me.

[Caliman73]

76. Like I said, bad faith argument.

I support Medicare 4 all, but not in the context that Turner is using it.

Like I said, Turner is bitter. She had opportunities to move up in the party, but got all in her feelings and decided to go in a negative direction.

I typically dismiss her too. Like I said, Medicare 4 all is still a valid concern, but not like she is using it.

[questionseverything]

99. She is bashing pro lifers in this case

[mcar]

4. Ah I see she is going back to a previous chew toy

Guess even she sees that now is not the time for the student loan forgiveness distraction.

[Budi]

8. Or a hint of admission that the real fk up happened back in 2016

Where were you Ms Turner?
Where was all this campaign stumping for saving Roe by M4A, back when it was all on the line?

Huh Nina?
M4A isn't going to save Roe.

You fking hated this woman, Nina.

Link to tweet

[mcar]

9. That's right

They insisted Roe and SCOTUS weren't important and women's issues a "distraction."

[Budi]

16. They did! Said SC wasn't an issue & Planned Parenthood was "ESTABLISHMENT"

All the coded campaign words repeated on a 24/7 loop.
And somehow Nina's managed to conflate the loss of Roe with M4A.
M4A, the slogan, won't save ROE.
ffs

Next up:
"Can't say Pro-choice without saying Pay my student loan!"

[sheshe2]

75. Yup.

Identity issues and voting with your vagina.

She never cared then and she pretends to care now.

[blue sky at night]

5. I missed the horse that rode in here on DU...

as to why there is so much HATRED for Nina Turner, so can someone explain it to me.

And I disagree, if I didn't have Medicare right now I would be F U C K E D. My shoulder replacement cost 57K and my copay was $350.00. Thanks for your time.

[Phoenix61]

11. I think it's stuff like this.

“Stein's offer to Turner was first reported Sunday night by cleveland.com. Turner said then that she would have a decision before the Green Party opened its convention later this week in Houston. She said Monday that she wanted to have an answer for Stein sooner, rather than later, as the Massachusetts physician had other options.“
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2016/08/nina_turner_turns_down_offer_t.html

[blue sky at night]

15. R E A L L Y....

copied and pasted from an article that is S E V E N years old:

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Nina Turner will remain a Democrat.

"I'm going to keep fighting in the party, even though I'm disappointed," Turner said in a telephone interview. "I'm a Democrat, and that's worth fighting for."

Turner upset Democrats at their national convention last week by publicly showing that disappointment, even after Sanders fell in line graciously behind one-time rival Hillary Clinton. She said she had been scheduled to deliver one of the speeches placing Sanders' name in nomination but was dumped at the last minute.

I not real sure but I think some folks here on DU need to get a life, she sounds OKAY to me. I would have been pissed if they shit on me like that.

I am tempted to alert on this OP for trashing a Dem.

[Budi]

21. Oh please. Nina's got an anti Democratic history years long

My question is, how does anyone NOT know of it!

Its not like she hides it.

[sheshe2]

90. Oh.A Democrat?!

It’s official! Sen. Nina Turner is running for Congress. She’s running for the seat vacated by Rep. Marcia Fudge, who Joe Biden has chosen as secretary of Housing and Urban Development. The People’s Party isn’t on the ballot in Ohio yet so she will have to run as a Democrat
snip

Last week we officially registered the People’s Party in Maine, our first state party! Maine has a special rule that requires early registration. Please donate as we prepare to register the People’s Party in all 50 states and offer a progressive populist alternative to the corporate-funded Democratic and Republican parties in 2022 and 2024.

ttps://peoplesparty.org/nina-turner-congress/

Her own words. She is not a Democrat. She is a third party and DU only supports Democrats.

[iemanja]

103. Yes, I really need to get a life

Imagine my petty concern with abortion rights, the Supreme Court, and everything Trump accomplished in part due to Turner's actively arguing against Clinton's election. How dare I care about any of that. It's only my equal rights after all.

[Budi]

19. Stein's pic, sitting at Putin's table & Nina's a lobbyist for Mercury Global, who supports Putin.

Well, its an irresistable match so why the fk not.

[Phoenix61]

20. I didn't know about Mercury Global. Thanks! nt

[Budi]

23. Yes. Mercury was one of the foreign corps listed on the Mueller report.

Foreign influence in our 2016 election & more.
Mercury also helped Nina set up her Amare pr group which has been found to be a favor for her lobbying.
She's paid $300,000 a yr from Mercury lobbying.

There is nothing Democratic about Nina.
Or Stein for that matter.

Saboteurs of Democracy. I can get you a link to all the underhanded backstabbery
Its sickening.

[Phoenix61]

24. Sheesh, I'll take your word for it. nt

[Beastly Boy]

12. Her hatered of the Democratic mainstream defies common sense.

As a result, she is often found on the side of harming Democrats rather than helping the causes she so vocally advocates. Her animosity towards Biden is just one example. Naturally, this pisses a lot of Democrats off.

Oh, and Medicare for All is a brand which denotes a very particular, and not necessarily effective, approach to single payer health insurance. Her tweet sounds just as ridiculous as if I were to say "How dare you say you are pro-food preservation if you are against Frigidaire". As the OP said, one has nothing to do with the other.

[betsuni]

34. +1

[Cha]

61. It's a Distraction, imo.. Maybe if NT hadn't

advocated voting 3rd party in the General Election 2016 along Stein, Sarandon, and other Bully Horns.. we'd have Hillary Supreme Court NOW.

💙💛

[Beastly Boy]

65. Certainly a possibility, if not a probability

Just one of many reasons NT doesn't find favor with so many Democrats.

Aloha, Cha!

[Cha]

67. Aloha, Beastly Boy..

Like someone posted below..

"Don't you dare say you are pro-choice if you refused to vote for Hillary in 2016"

💙💛

[Budi]

13. Loss of Roe has nothinbg to do with M4A.

I'd like her to explain M4A.
She can't because THEY HAVE NO POLICY PLAN to implement it to 300,000 milion people.

Nothing but a campaign slogan. After 6 long years.
Not a plan in sight.
Nothing.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

14. One thing my wife said when she first heard the proposals to do away with private insurance...

"What do they think will happen to everyone employed in the insurance industry if they get rid of private insurance?"
I've never heard an answer to that one.

[qazplm135]

25. They get different jobs?

Same as horse carriage businesses had to do when Ford was around?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

27. So cavalier with other peoples' jobs...

Did the horse and buggy industry completely shut down when cars were invented? What is the transition plan for the 1000s of workers who would be out of a job?
It's real easy to say "get another job" - it's a lot harder to convince people who've been doing a job for 20+ years that they can easily start a new job.
See the pushback that Clinton and Obama received about closing coal mines and such in favor of green energy.

[qazplm135]

29. I mean yeah it did

Pretty quickly.

1000s of jobs versus:

Tens of millions of people with health care
Businesses that no longer have to provide health care and can make more money and maybe even ya know pay higher wages
No worrying about losing your healthcare cuz you lost your job
About ten other benefits that help tens of millions of people.

Yeah I'm pretty cavalier about those 1000s of jobs. Most of which are administrative and guess.what kind of jobs an expanded healthcare system is going to need to fill...

[AZSkiffyGeek]

37. And people wonder why Bernie never gained any traction

Tell me "I'm going to take away your job, but it's for your own good! Don't worry, you'll find another one."
And I'll tell you to fuck off.
Sounds like those dipshits on Twitter spouting "Learn to code!" whenever someone complains about poor treatment at a job.

[questionseverything]

45. So you are saying thousands a day should die for lack of medical care

So insurance company parasites can keep their jobs?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

49. So employed citizens in this country trying to make ends meet are parasites?

Once again you're showing me just how little you care about anyone else.

[qazplm135]

72. Yes wanting to help

Tens of millions get healthcare and making sure no one has to worry about affordable healthcare again is such an asshole move because it means a few folks have to get very similar jobs.

You've really nailed it

[AZSkiffyGeek]

78. Why do you care you just called them parasites

Such a great Democratic move. Good way to win elections. What, pray tell, is the noble job you do that makes you better than those educated middle class parasites you are so eager to cast aside?

[qazplm135]

82. I didn't call anyone a parasite

Hyperbole is a poor rhetorical device.

[Demsrule86]

92. When you can propose a plan that actually would work and line up the votes, let me know.

[pnwmom]

112. Two of my family members have had Obamacare insurance, and all of us have benefited.

The ACA changed the law so insurers weren't allowed to charge higher rates for people with preexisting conditions -- that benefits everyone.

[Budi]

52. K & R

Societal problems seem so easy to solve when its someone else's problem.

[sheshe2]

86. Have you priced COBRA recently?

No worrying about losing your healthcare cuz you lost your job

I lost more jobs than I can remember as they went out of business. Easier to find a new job when you are young. My last job, no one wanted to hire me as I was too old. If it wasn't for Obama and affordable healthcare I would have had nothing.

[pnwmom]

111. Right, but we DO have Obamacare, so people who''ve lost their jobs can go on that

instead of Cobra, if they choose.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

141. ACA still costs money. Less than COBRA, for sure, but if you've lost your job...

ACA was great. We can do even better. We should do even better.

[pnwmom]

147. People with no money in decent states qualify for Medicaid. I'm sorry for the people who don't!

The thing that's keeping the ACA from being better is the same thing that's stopping us from having Medicare for all -- the Republicans.

[treestar]

114. The insurance companies would lay them all off in a hot minute

if anything happened to make it what would increase their profits. Nobody's job is ever all that safe. How many jobs have they outsourced already?

M4A would require a lot of jobs, too.

[Budi]

28. Jfc. 🙄

[qazplm135]

32. Yeah

A couple thousand jobs is way more important than the benefits of universal healthcare.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

38. I get mine, fuck you

How kind...
Also the 1000s was me being conservative. Probably is closer to a million, if not more.

[qazplm135]

71. Yeah I get mine

And literally everyone else gets theirs.

And a few folks have to get different jobs.

This emotional nonsense about a tiny harm vice a large benefit isn't compelling at all I gotta say.

This is really your argument? We shouldn't help tens of millions of people get healthcare, help businesses get out of the business of providing healthcare because a small percentage of people will need to get new jobs?
Really?

How sad.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

79. No that's not my argument

My argument is come up with a fucking plan that figures out how to deal with the influx of unemployed before implementing it, as opposed to “too bad you parasites, find another job, it’s no big deal.”
Of course you at least need to come up with any plan, which the MFA sheep don’t seem to be able to do.
But hey, it’s a great slogan. Especially when you call people parasites.

[qazplm135]

84. Ya know

Usually quotations involve something someone actually said. Just a protip.

Obviously whenever some version of universal healthcare is developed and passed it will involve a plan.

That's kinda how legislation works.

The plan is those people will find new jobs dealing with administrating healthcare.

Hmmm if only there would be a new healthcare administration need by the creation of universal healthcare...

So basically your complaint boils down to no one can be there in favor of universal healthcare unless they have it perfected which is a really weird requirement.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

151. So you are telling me that basically every other first world country can figure it out

but, somehow, it is beyond the abilities of the US to figure out a plan?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

152. I'm saying take into account...

That 1000s (millions?) will lose their jobs if there isn't some sort of transitional plan in place more than just "Get rid of the parasites! M4A!"
This isn't some sort of sudden shift in industry, this is the government and leaders saying "We're going to do away with your job." And then wonder why they aren't thanking us for giving them a different insurance plan than what they already had.
I'm not sure why that is so difficult to understand. But apparently some people just don't care because "they're parasites" who can just get CSR jobs when they're laid off.
And they don't understand that this shift will cause massive unemployment and cost us votes if there isn't some serious talk about how it's going to be done beyond sloganeering and belittling the people it will affect.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

153. So we're off the "there's no plan!" argument. That's good.

As to the jobs, do you not think that if the federal government is going to take over the health care system that there aren't going to be jobs in the new system for people that already have the skill set to do that job? We aren't getting rid of health care. We are getting rid of fucking private insurance. We will still need people to take care of the day-to-day with health care. There will be jobs.

Plus there is the added benefit of saving people that currently pay for private insurance money. Which, apparently, will lose us votes in bizarro world.

[Budi]

42. Well ya. IF THEY ACTUALLY HAD A M4A POLICY prepared to pass thru Congress

They've had 6 & 1/2 years to show us one.
To wite a legislative proposal.
To get enough Congressional support & pass it & get the Pres to sign it.

They have done nothing.
Except yell it to media & campaign on it as a populist slogan.

Where's the policy plan we're all spose to be on board with?
I'm not dropping my ins for another empty slogan.

They gotta present the effort.
So far, nothing.
Let me know when you locate the big plan that, according to Nina Turner, will solve Roe.

[BradAllison]

88. "No free shit", right?

They'll probably use the "extra money" on drugs or something

[BradAllison]

87. The private insurance industry does fine with Medicare patients right now

Everyone who has it knows they really need supplemental insurance.

[alphafemale]

91. The same thing people who carried ice to people's houses did.

The same thing blacksmiths did.

The same thing TV repair people did.

[ck4829]

119. The same thing that would happen to a lot of people employed in the insurance industry if

cancer was cured or communicable diseases were eradicated 100%.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

137. If they don't suck at their job, they get a job in the new government infrastructure.

You really weren't able to come up with the idea that we would still need people to process all that stuff? It's not that hard.

[Autumn]

140. Asked and answered. They will get other jobs. Perhaps answering phones at a Medicare center

instead of people being on hold for two and a half hours to get one question answered.

[MN2theMax]

17. Here's what she said about the 2020 election

“It’s like saying to somebody, ‘You have a bowl of shit in front of you, and all you’ve got to do is eat half of it instead of the whole thing,” Turner said of the choice between voting for Biden and President Donald Trump in the 2020 presidential election. “It’s still sh*t.

That is the point when I lost the need to hear her out.

[sheshe2]

77. Welp.

Voted 3rd party
Not a Dem, her own words.
Member of the Peoples Party
Called Biden a half bowl of shit
Trashed Democrats
Dark Money

[iemanja]

102. Her actively promoting Trump's election over Hillary

and comparing voting for Biden to a bowl of shit. I don't like Republicans ore their enablers.

How can this possibly be difficult to understand?

[lapucelle]

117. People who were here for the 2016 and 2020 presidential general election

campaigns remember well what Nina said about our nominees.

I read profiles.

[hlthe2b]

6. There is a "relegated to obscurity" crowd shouting for you to join them, Nina

and I'd gladly pay your one-way ticket.

[Budi]

10. I'll chip in.

She is a populist, professional anti-Democratic campaigner.
The Dem Party needs to ban her from future runs under their name.
I cannot recall the last time she had a decent thing to say about our Party, our poliicies, our leaders.

Someone really should confront her about her involvement with Mercury gobal & their RU ties.
And that is a whole separate sketchy matter.

[Hortensis]

22. This dishonest agitprop is itself reason to steer way away.

This is trumpist level.

Medicare for All is at most a slogan topping a see-through outline, several years away from reality even if it weren't politically impossible and even if Democrats were in for it.

What would the anti-tax/government Republicans be doing during the 7 years of BATTLE minimum, during which it would have to survive several national elections, that it'd take to develop, pass into law, and put in place?

Does anyone really need to hear that the ACA every patient in our nation benefits from is not just a half-empty bowl of shit, but worse -- an institution of mass death (!), to see those slinging this stuff for what they are?

[Budi]

26. K & R. Thank You!

[betsuni]

33. +1

[yardwork]

40. Well said.

[brer cat]

46. +1

[questionseverything]

50. Unfortunately the aca is insurance many can't afford to use

Basically it subsidizes Insurance company profits

[Hortensis]

54. NOPE! The ACA establishes and protects NATIONAL HEALTHCARE RIGHTS,

AND STANDARDS AND SERVICES THAT WERE NOT PROTECTED IN LAW BEFORE. The new standards cover treatments, physicial office procedures, medications, devices, recordkeeping, and much else. In various ways the ACA benefits EVERYONE who buys insurance and/or who is treated in this country, not just those who purchase through the exchanges.

Although only policies sold through the ACA require the 10 ESSENTIAL COVERAGES that were not guaranteed and often scamped before, it set a standard for workplace and other policies as well.

Remember the "10 essential coverages" the ACA required? These are them. Before the ACA, MANY policies did not provide coverage for any or almost all of these below. The ACA raised national standards for coverage ENORMOUSLY. And Republicans howled at the severe blow to the junk-policy industry.

(Imagine, there were "insurance policies" that didn't cover doctor office, ER, AND/OR hospital visits!)

What Are the 10 Essential Health Benefits?

Ambulatory patient services. This is the outpatient care, from doctor’s visits to same-day surgery, that you receive without being admitted to a hospital.

Emergency services. Insurance companies cannot charge you more for going to an out-of-network hospital’s emergency room in the case of a true emergency, such as a suspected heart attack or stroke,6 nor can they require prior approval for emergency room visits.

Hospitalization. This benefit includes surgery or other overnight, in-patient stays at a hospital.7
Pregnancy, maternity, and newborn care. Insurance must cover medical services for you and your child, both before and after birth, as well as the cost of the delivery itself. Insurers must also cover birth control and breastfeeding services.

Mental health and substance use disorder services. Behavioral health treatment, such as counseling or psychotherapy, is a part of this benefit.

Prescription drugs. While insurers don’t cover all drugs, they must offer a formulary (approved list of medications) for which they’ll pay a portion of the costs.10 The government has categorized approved drugs, and insurers must cover at least one drug from each category. You can find a list of the medicines that your insurer covers by visiting its website.

Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices. This benefit includes devices or services aimed at helping people with chronic conditions, disabilities, or injuries regain or improve skills.

Laboratory services. Coverage includes tests that doctors might run to aid in diagnosis.
Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management. Preventive and wellness care covers routine doctor’s visits, such as annual exams and vaccinations. If you get preventive health services, such as a pap test, from an in-network provider, their services are free. However, not every service that you receive at a checkup is covered, so check your benefits before you go.

Pediatric services. In addition to the above benefits, children’s benefits must include vision and dental care.

[questionseverything]

56. My deductible is seven grand ( unaffordable)

My spouse’s is the same

[Celerity]

60. Exactly, the ACA is a simply a less rapacious wealth extraction scheme when measured in balance, but

a wealth extraction scheme nonetheless.

Yes, of course it is better than what the scumfucking Rethugs would have in play, but it is not even remotely close to being a good system compared to almost all the rest of the advanced world.

It preserves the profit motive, it directly and indirectly helps to ensure that trillions upon trillions of USD in wealth will be transferred from the broad bottom to the narrow top over the coming decades.

And overall, the US doesn't have, on balance, remotely close to as good as healthcare compared to many other nations. Sure, if you are wealthy, then it's a wonderful system. But if not wealthy, then it may well end in years.

Pay a shit tonne more, get less quality overall, and make the rich richer and the poor and middle class poorer. The true American dream.

[Hortensis]

64. Imo, those who empower those attempting to destroy it DESERVE

to lose all the benefits they deny and despise.

IMO, it's also dreadfully WRONG to empower those attempting to destroy it WITH NO POSSIBLE REPLACEMENT IN SIGHT, especially in 2017-18. Tens of millions would have lost their coverage if these people had succeeded. Many would have died and be dying every year.

That the ACA doesn't have everything we want is PROOF of the power of those opposing -- including, tragically, the sabotaging efforts from the left.

My god, the enormous battle for giant (excellent!) ACA package itself took years, and after passage 5000 regulations still had to be created and passed to put it in effect. A real "MfA" bill is yet to be started, not a fraction of a real, workable bill, not one regulation to attach to it (BIG clue there of its proponents' belief in its achievability).

This contempt for what we achieved with the ACA alone, instead of celebrating it as the great, unfinished achievement it was, probably lost us 2016 in itself and came close to destroying the ACA, with people on both right and left calling for its elimination -- especially in 2017 when the Republicans took over the federal government and we couldn't get a bill renaming a post office passed.

Btw, I changed my work in order to qualify for ACA coverage and leave my awful workplace insurance deductibles behind. We hadn't filed a claim in years because the deductibles kept the policies from paying out. Under my Marketplace policy, my premiums dropped substantially, my coverages increased enormously, and I caught up on 15 years of deferred healthcare, including surgery and establishment of care with expensive specialists.

[betsuni]

83. +1

[Celerity]

85. Everything's an excuse or a rationalisation, with (of course) 2016 tossed in

for relitigation yet again. It never ends, sort of like the boundless greed that dictates US healthcare.

You also try to critique shame by continually applying negative projection and codewords about what is, in reality, a simple series of completely truthful comparative statements. On balance, the US is getting gutted via wealth extraction by the for-profit healthcare model that includes the ACA. Less gutted with the ACA than with some dystopian Rethug hellscape, but gutted and wealth extracted nonetheless. To put it into simple terms, the system is, on balance, a massive ripoff. Pay more, get less, with needless pain and yes, death as well.

Finally:

Funny (not really) that you come straight after me and totally ignore the post I replied to:

questionseverything
56. My deductible is seven grand (unaffordable)
My spouse’s is the same

Go on, tell them what an 'excellent' (your words) deal they have. I wager that when premiums and copays are factored in, they could easily be on the hook for 20,000, 25,000 USD (or far far more if a truly calamitous illness rears its ugly head) in wealth extraction per annum, for what is a basic human right in the rest of the advanced world.

Try and sell that 'excellent' deal to the vox populi of pretty much any other advanced nation on the planet. I 100% guarantee you will not at all like the outcome.

[Demsrule86]

98. Well I would like to know why they have two plans...a husband and wife can be on the same

plan...I have found the ACA to be better than many workplace insurances and there is no way to pass M4A anyway. I am proud that we finally after 100 years got healthcare to the folks and if we win the midterm, we can improve on it. I believe we should allow any who wants to join to do so. And that is how we get full coverage. And of course, the Medicaid issue needs fixing.

[Celerity]

110. I never mentioned MFA.

So many people, when engaging with me on healthcare, always default to MFA for their target to go against (meaning they assume that that is my main alternative). Another thing one that you are not doing at all, (as we have talked many times) but another large mistake people make is to assume I am some Sanderite fangirl, when I am not at all.

It is like the entire debate (when looked at well beyond people's interactions with me) is some far too often preconstructed kabuki theatre, with the same roles, the same memes, the same options and assumptions just endlessly repeated.

The ACA may indeed be better than some other plans in some cases, but they all are wealth extractive schemes at the end of the day. No other advanced nation would swap systems, ie swap the ACA or the American model overall, for theirs.

The profit motive is kept front and centre overall in the American healthcare system with the ACA as well. The for-profit insure companies, predatory healthcare providers, the industrial tertiary education complex (physicians, nurses, health science grads often emerge with insane debt, thus the need to overcharge) plus big pharma with its 'lets charge the US insane amounts of money more for the same drugs as we do other nations' models are rapacious drivers of extraction.

As costs (healthcare, insurance, and pharma) and spending explode even further over the next 8, 10, 12 years (by then exceeding 7 to 7.5 trillion USD per annum the system will start to reach crisis breakdown mode. Something will have to give. People will not accept 10 to 15k USD per year, per person, just in deductibles with 1000 to 1200 USD per month, per person premiums added in in top. And I did not even mention copays. That all is where the US is headed, even with the ACA, as the system simply must feed the beast that is the profit motive.

[Demsrule86]

124. I am talking about the ACA...Both my husband and I were on the same policy. Why would

one have two policies and pay two premiums. I sometimes think some don't call and speak to the experts who will help you choose wisely...some of the silver plans are amazing.

[questionseverything]

150. We have one plan but each of us has a deductible

For very low income people the aca can be heavily subsidized, once income gets to a certain level that disappears

If we paid full price our bronze plan would be $1900/ month with a $7000/ person deductible

For us that’s unaffordable

I am glad for the people it helps but mostly it benefits insurance companies

[Nixie]

104. (Your words) So it's okay to reflect someone's words now?

You scolded me the other day about reflecting your words back to you and now you are doing it? I can link to the apology you demanded, but it’s probably better to mention that learning the lessons from 2016 is good since the things you mention were rejected by voters.

So your complaints about “negative projections” and “code words” don’t make sense when taken in the context of actual election results. Your claim “completely truthful comparative statements” doesn’t reflect the 2016 reality of the worldview that voters chose.

[Nixie]

105. Thank you. It's about time we deal in reality instead of endless

fantasy about a failed campaign proposal. Voters obviously chose to expand the ACA and not chase an unrealistic fantasy. Excellent post about reality.

[Demsrule86]

97. A husband and wife can go on the same plan on the ACA and it is cheaper...I know I did it last

year. There are some very good plans out there...I suggest you call and discuss it with a rep.

[Rob H.]

108. My deductible's not that high but

after having insurance under the ACA for three years I wound up in the ER with a kidney stone. They did a CAT scan, give me IV fluids and painkillers, told me to go home and drink plenty of water until it passed, and the hospital bill was $2800. Insurance paid half and I was on the hook for the other half, and that’s with Gold level coverage. Not sure why everyone’s acting as if ACA coverage is the best thing ever—I’ve had health insurance through employers that had lower deductibles, cost less, and would’ve paid out more.

Edit: the amount I paid doesn’t include the $300 charged for the ER visit; that had to be paid up front.

[pnwmom]

148. Gold plans have high deductibles. Is that what you chose? n/t

[questionseverything]

149. No it's bronze that have high deductibles

We didn’t feel we could afford the gold

[Demsrule86]

93. That is untrue. My husband would likely be dead without the ACA and my daughter crippled.

The ACA worked very well and was affordable. The ACA was a Godsend for millions who are alive today because of...easy to announce breathlessly M4A, but what does that even mean? No one knows. And Obama did what no one else could, he passed a health care bill that continues to be a BFD.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

138. Are you arguing that it would have been worse for them under M4A?

Perhaps there are thousands of stories like yours that ended poorly under ACA because it is still unaffordable. Because it is still prohibitive for a lot of people.

We can continue to do better than ACA. I remember when we went from universal coverage to ACA and we were told that it was OK because we needed these small steps to get to universal coverage. Now, anytime anyone brings up universal coverage, we get told it's a unicorn and we need to grow up.

[JohnSJ]

39. Don't you dare say you are pro-choice if you refused to vote for Hillary in 2016

[yardwork]

41. Good point!

[Hortensis]

43. +1000. The alternative if we lost was written on the wall for all to see.

And some chose to inflict the huge risk of the alternative for our nation. Knowing that it would lead to oppression of women and minorities, and death and suffering for many.

The "Sarandons" still want to believe what their little extremist minority wants is on the other side of a national holocaust.

[Budi]

44. Or if you spent years debasing the worth of her well prepared policies while you present slogans.

Thank you, JohnSJ

[Cha]

68. I think NT's OP tweet is a Distraction

from Pushing 3rd Party Voting in 2016 in the General Election.

💙💛

[brer cat]

48. +a million!

[Budi]

51. Tag line.

Thanks

[leftstreet]

58. But Hillary chose a VP who was...nevermind n/t

[Demsrule86]

100. Her choice of VP had nothing to do with her loss...and I did GOTV and I call the crowd

that caused her loss in the General...the 'but her email' crowd. I pointed out we had a Justice waiting and I was told not to threaten them with the courts...something was said here. Jill Stein purposefully campaigned in certain Rust Belt states in order to eke out a win for Trump...fuck them all...Sarandon, Turner, Stein, and all the rest.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

145. "Nothing"? Really? That's pretty strong.

So, look at the scenario. You have a large block of people that supported a further left candidate than Clinton in the primaries. Clinton won the primary. Yup, that's all good. So she then gets to pick a VP, and, instead of picking someone closer to the further left candidate in order to let that person's supporters know that they were somewhat heard, she picks someone that is arguably to her right. And you want to argue that the VP choice had NOTHING to do with it. It at least registers above 0%.

[iemanja]

121. who has a pro-choice voting record

[Rob H.]

125. He can only be considered pro-choice if you completely ignore his time as Virginia's governor

Before he got to the US Senate he erected a lot of barriers to reproductive freedom in VA to the extent that NARAL gave him an "F."

[iemanja]

126. I didn't realize that

though I'm glad to see he's done right while in DC.

[Rob H.]

128. Yep! He's now at the completely opposite end of the spectrum nt

Last edited Wed May 11, 2022, 11:22 AM - Edit history (1)

[Cha]

63. OMG!! Nail Meet Hammer! Just what

I was saying UPTHREAD.. It's a Distraction.. NT advocated 3rd Party voting in the General Election 2016.. she has a lot of GD nerve.

TY John!

💙💛

[sheshe2]

89. +1000

[Demsrule86]

94. Damn right...

[iemanja]

101. +1

[Nixie]

106. LOL!! Goodness, that is excellent!

There could be hundreds of things to tack on to that, but you nailed it!

[Caliman73]

66. We (liberals/progressives) do nuance.

It is not that one has "nothing" to do with the other. One actually does. We use arguments sort of like this against Conservatives regularly.

You can't be pro-life if you support ... the death penalty, endless war (MIC), etc... OR if you don't support ... child care, free education, homeless services, etc....

The problem is that Nina Turner, in her usual bitter style, is trying to bash Democrats rather than going after the actual people who are creating this situation, Conservatives/Republicans. It is stupid to pick fights within a coalition, especially when that coalition is facing a tough election cycle.

I would have no problem with Turner, or progressives, or other people pushing the Democratic Party hard on Medicare 4 All, or BBB, or other policies, Once there is political power to do so. This infighting however, really just puts Democrats on the back foot rather than using the situation to highlight how extreme conservatives/Republicans are about basic human rights.

We can, and should continue to have discussions about access to healthcare and single payor, the problem is that Turner is using this as a cudgel to beat the actual party that is most likely to advance the issue rather than to use the issue on access to abortion against the people who are attacking the right to medical care and bodily autonomy. She is mad because she lost her race...again, to someone that the voters in her district wanted a lot more than her.

[Demsrule86]

95. I live in Ohio and voted for Shontel Brown. I will never forgive Nina for her behavior

during the 2016 and 2020 General elections. This time, she actually campaign against Biden...how she would stand up to him blah blah and accused Shontel of being a criminal...not true. But as Nina is now running for this and that in order to make a living, she will likely find herself in hot water at some point. She drove around in a stupid van covered with anti-Democratic Party crap. I hope she understands, it is over for her in Ohio.

[yardwork]

113. She accused Shontel of being a criminal?! How dare she.

[Demsrule86]

123. I know right...I wish Shontel would sue her...although I suppose she would enjoy that.

[Caliman73]

118. Yeah, that is pretty ridiculous

The Democratic Party is by no means, above criticism. I understand that there are people who want faster and more aggressive policy change. That is a valid discussion to have.

That is not what Turner is engaged in. Like I said in my other responses. Turner is bitter. She is practicing scorched earth on the one and actual party that would even entertain her ideas. The fact that she and her rhetoric are not popular and being accepted within the party, should tell her she needs to change, at the very least, her approach. There are other fiery people (AOC, Talaib, Omar, Pressley, etc...) who have a greater acceptance within the Party, because even when they have controversial stances within the party, they aren't calling the head of the Party a "half a shit sandwhich"

I actually hope that Turner is done. I wish that she could see how she is messing herself up by acting a fool, but she does not seem to have the ability for introspection.

[bigtree]

70. somebody tell me why we can't have Medicare for all

...that doesn't have to do with republicans and moderates refusing to vote for it in red states - which has basically been the argument against it through successive presidential elections.

You know what doesn't go together, as well? Opposition to Nina Turner and opposition to Medicare for all.

It's clear that many opponents of providing Medicare for all are eager to use Nina Turner, or anyone they can associate with Bernie Sanders, to deflect from their opposition to the initiative.

This thread is no exception, with absolutely no reason given, other than they don't like Nina Turner.

I frankly don't care how you feel about Turner, but I really think Medicare for all deserves more consideration, if not support, than this effort to demonize it along with this antipathy to Turner, Sanders, or any other boogeyman used to deflect from the issue.

The worst is that with no actual election resting on the initiative, no red state moderate candidates to protect against the progressive proposal, it's still being demagouged and demonized by people identifying as Democrats.

[Demsrule86]

96. No one has ever put together a plan for MFA. And as a person who investigated Medicare, I

can tell you, it would never work as written. That is the first issue. The second issue is, that we don't have the votes. And people still want their workplace insurance. I have to tell you, I get queasy thinking of Trump in charge of our Health Care too...so any bill would need to be written carefully. And no one has ever written a real plan.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

139. Most 1st world countries other than us figured it out.

Not sure why it's so hard for us when Europe got it right.

[BannonsLiver]

80. Nina is like herpes - incurable and always fighting to stay relevant.

[treestar]

115. Here she's aiming at right wingers

those who claim to be "pro-life." That's the same side for now. For once she is going after right wingers instead of Democrats, something I like to see the progressives do more of. Usually they are blaming Democrats.

[iemanja]

122. No, she isn't

She's aiming at people who aren't necessarily on board with Medicare for All. The right absolutely opposes Medicare for All. Turner is aiming at Democrats, as always.

[treestar]

127. those Democrats would not be pro-life though

or might be for it but think it would never pass. Are they are absolutely against it?

[iemanja]

129. You'd have to ask Turner what she's thinking

But there are Democrats, such as the president, who don't support Medicare for All yet still support a woman's right to choose. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[867-5309.]

133. I don't have a problem with it

"Pro-life" often gets conflated with the death penalty. It's political rhetoric.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

134. She's not wrong.

Assuring health care for every citizen is going to go a long way keep people alive.

[Autumn]

136. That's where you are wrong. One has very much to do with the other.

Hatred blinds people.

[H2O Man]

142. +1

[Doremus]

144. Once again the longest thread on the page.

Have to wonder why, or not.