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BREAKING: Microsoft has announced it will pay travel costs for its employees seeking an abortion. (Original Post) In It to Win It May 2022 OP
Good !! once big money gets on the side of right folk will perk their heads out the ground uponit7771 May 2022 #1
So will Apple, Citi, and other companies, while Florida has said they will penalize companies JohnSJ May 2022 #2
Amazon is another such company. nt Wednesdays May 2022 #4
The battle lines are getting drawn, and republicans are on the wrong side of history, and JohnSJ May 2022 #9
Big. Fucking. Whoop. 50 Shades Of Blue May 2022 #3
Wake me when they stop contributing money to Republicans and instead back pro-choice candidates. Midnight Writer May 2022 #5
Happy for the work arounds but... CrackityJones75 May 2022 #6
Work arounds just keep the whole situation from blowing exboyfil May 2022 #11
Maybe. CrackityJones75 May 2022 #14
Exactly. This is a positive thing, and people need options if they live in draconian states that ar JohnSJ May 2022 #17
I didn't mean it that way exboyfil May 2022 #20
Oh no worries I didn't think you did CrackityJones75 May 2022 #22
New York is establishing a fund to cover wnylib May 2022 #33
Good to hear regarding New York CrackityJones75 May 2022 #36
This is great news LetMyPeopleVote May 2022 #7
Instead of paying costs for their employee health care right, why don't Microsoft and in2herbs May 2022 #8
You do realize that Microsoft offers Health, Vision, and Dental insurance at no cost to an employee. JohnSJ May 2022 #13
No one framed the med benefits paid by Microsoft and other corps as a bad in2herbs May 2022 #18
It was quite obvious that the Supreme Court was the issue in 2016. That is when things needed to JohnSJ May 2022 #21
Pull out of states with restrictive abortion laws exboyfil May 2022 #10
Yes Johnny2X2X May 2022 #16
Maybe they could shut down a few select Windows machines in those states... hunter May 2022 #46
This is better than if they didn't do it, but Mr.Bill May 2022 #12
You are so right exboyfil May 2022 #19
You know what's coming next gratuitous May 2022 #15
Shortly after the Roe v Wade ruling, the company wnylib May 2022 #37
I ask again, how will this realistically work? Arazi May 2022 #23
I imagine it would be a reimbursement kinda thing, rather than directly paying the provider In It to Win It May 2022 #24
So an employee has to tell their boss and/or HR to cut them a $400 Arazi May 2022 #25
I would guess that Microsoft will hire a 3rd party to implement the policy gristy May 2022 #28
But their employer is still going to get that bill Arazi May 2022 #38
The 3rd party will pay the bills, roll up the aggregate expense and invoice microsoft. gristy May 2022 #42
Even to pay for the commission of a crime? Arazi May 2022 #43
This. Exactly. fierywoman May 2022 #26
It will be almost certainly be administered as part of their health care package. Ms. Toad May 2022 #44
Abortion will be a crime. Helping someone get an abortion IS a crime Arazi May 2022 #47
The question I was addressing disclosure to employers. Ms. Toad May 2022 #48
Are you willing to bet on this SCOTUS following "constitutional presumptions"? Arazi May 2022 #49
You're conflating two things: Ms. Toad May 2022 #50
There's a Microsoft Access joke in here somewhere nt Shermann May 2022 #27
... In It to Win It May 2022 #32
If you find it BumRushDaShow May 2022 #40
I'd also like to see companies offer to pay expenses to move out of red states. Lonestarblue May 2022 #29
What about employees who don't want their employer to know they're getting an abortion? WhiskeyGrinder May 2022 #30
It will almost certainly be handled the same way all other medical expenses are - Ms. Toad May 2022 #45
So, in the end the poor unemployed women will be penalized. Again. erronis May 2022 #31
might be cheaper and smarter to just buy some senators rurallib May 2022 #34
So Maine Abu El Banat May 2022 #35
time to move out of those states not a texan May 2022 #39
That's nice. Will Microsoft also stop funding the campaigns of pro-forced-birth politicians? n/t TygrBright May 2022 #41
K&r Demovictory9 May 2022 #51

JohnSJ

(92,273 posts)
2. So will Apple, Citi, and other companies, while Florida has said they will penalize companies
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:39 PM
May 2022

that have such a policy

JohnSJ

(92,273 posts)
9. The battle lines are getting drawn, and republicans are on the wrong side of history, and
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:49 PM
May 2022

I only hope they pay a price for that


 

CrackityJones75

(2,403 posts)
6. Happy for the work arounds but...
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:44 PM
May 2022

Happy for the work arounds but these are not solutions.

Another work around that shouldn’t be needed is a fund that everyone can pay into that works like an unwanted oregnancy insurance to provide funds to people who do not work for companies like this. Maybe there is something like this already I don’t know. Maybe that is where planned parenthood goes next?

Again this is a work around and not a solution.

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
11. Work arounds just keep the whole situation from blowing
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:52 PM
May 2022

Just like Catholic hospitals can sit on their high horses about ectopic pregnancies because they can be shuffled to other hospitals.

 

CrackityJones75

(2,403 posts)
14. Maybe.
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:55 PM
May 2022

But if they do overturn then I damn sure want there to be a work around for my 15yr old daughter until we can get it fixed permanently.

Sorry but I have kids that need to have options other than “Too bad people older than you voted incorrectly”

JohnSJ

(92,273 posts)
17. Exactly. This is a positive thing, and people need options if they live in draconian states that ar
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:57 PM
May 2022

anti-women


exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
20. I didn't mean it that way
Tue May 10, 2022, 03:06 PM
May 2022

I agree with you. Providing care is the most important thing. I am just pointing out the only way this sh__t is even viable is the current safety hatches ie a Republican fat catter can always get an abortion or facilitate his wife, daughter, or mistress getting one.

wnylib

(21,511 posts)
33. New York is establishing a fund to cover
Tue May 10, 2022, 05:04 PM
May 2022

traveling expenses for out of state women and to increase the number of available places for women to get abortions. The fund will also cover the cost of the abortion for women who do not have the means to pay.

Meantime, there is a proposed bill to deny extradition and information sharing to states that try to legally pursue abortion providers in New York.

in2herbs

(2,945 posts)
8. Instead of paying costs for their employee health care right, why don't Microsoft and
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:45 PM
May 2022

these other corporations leave these states that are now restricting and will in the future restrict health care rights.

I am not impressed. One thing I'm not hearing is will the employee have to declare the $$ gotten from their employer for travel costs and pay taxes on that $$$?

The response by corporations is not strong enough.

JohnSJ

(92,273 posts)
13. You do realize that Microsoft offers Health, Vision, and Dental insurance at no cost to an employee.
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:55 PM
May 2022

It is part of their benefit package, as do most large corporations.

This is not a bad thing, and framing as though it is, isn't a very wise strategy


in2herbs

(2,945 posts)
18. No one framed the med benefits paid by Microsoft and other corps as a bad
Tue May 10, 2022, 03:01 PM
May 2022

thing! What I said was that since money equates to power, these corps, if they are serious about a woman's right to autonomy, should not support states that are against it and move their corp headquarters to states that give women autonomy. Nothing will change until these red states start bleeding $$$ because of their religious beliefs. Or, they can preach to their voters that God will save them -- just send money.

JohnSJ

(92,273 posts)
21. It was quite obvious that the Supreme Court was the issue in 2016. That is when things needed to
Tue May 10, 2022, 03:10 PM
May 2022

happen. Not after the fact


exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
10. Pull out of states with restrictive abortion laws
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:50 PM
May 2022

Take the jobs and taxes (whatever taxes they pay) elsewhere. Paying travel expenses is not sufficient - have a stated plan for leaving the specific states.

Johnny2X2X

(19,074 posts)
16. Yes
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:57 PM
May 2022

Not enough to pay travel, boycott these states like we'd boycott them if they were being run by ISIS.

hunter

(38,321 posts)
46. Maybe they could shut down a few select Windows machines in those states...
Fri May 13, 2022, 05:06 PM
May 2022


Nah, I'm just joking.

It is fun imagining all the offices of these anti-abortionist legislators thrown into chaos when their computers stop working.

Hmm... now that I think about it, maybe there's something in all that boilerplate everyone automatically agrees to when they start a new Windows machine...

Mr.Bill

(24,305 posts)
12. This is better than if they didn't do it, but
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:55 PM
May 2022

it adds one more negative and difficult aspect to getting an abortion. You have to tell your employer. This is something no woman should have to do. Women not only deserve access to the health care they seek, they also deserve privacy. At the very least, I hope these companies go to great lengths to provide as much confidentiality as possible.

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
19. You are so right
Tue May 10, 2022, 03:03 PM
May 2022

They are already up in your business because healthcare insurance is mostly provided by employers. This just makes that worse.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
15. You know what's coming next
Tue May 10, 2022, 02:56 PM
May 2022

"Next on Fox: Are women getting pregnant just so they can have an employer-paid vacation? Some people are saying that women working for Microsoft are getting pregnant on purpose to take advantage of Microsoft's policy of covering their travel costs to get an abortion."

They will almost certainly come up with a clever alliterative involving really degrading names for such women who may or may not exist.

wnylib

(21,511 posts)
37. Shortly after the Roe v Wade ruling, the company
Tue May 10, 2022, 05:13 PM
May 2022

That I worked for said that our health insurance would cover the cost of abortion for employees.

My first reaction to the news was how hard it would be for a woman to to have to reveal her abortion in order to get it covered. But the anti choice employees said it was a terrible decision because it would encourage women to have abortions, as if they would all rush to get pregnant just so they could get that health benefit.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
23. I ask again, how will this realistically work?
Tue May 10, 2022, 03:34 PM
May 2022

Will women have to tell their boss, HR, they need time off and cash for an abortion? Will the company pay an abortion provider directly? Does that expose them to bounty hunters (in TX)?

Who is realistically going to tell their employer that information?

What if your boss is a fundy nut job? Will an employee be comfortable going back into that environment after an abortion (that your boss/HR knows about?)

In It to Win It

(8,258 posts)
24. I imagine it would be a reimbursement kinda thing, rather than directly paying the provider
Tue May 10, 2022, 03:44 PM
May 2022

It just may expose them to bounty hunters in Texas... but I imagine for companies like Amazon, Microsoft, Tesla and other big companies, it will be the hardest $10k any bounty hunter will have worked for in their life. These big companies won't make that litigation easy. To any bounty hunter, I say good luck trying to collect.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
25. So an employee has to tell their boss and/or HR to cut them a $400
Tue May 10, 2022, 03:51 PM
May 2022

To reimburse for Planned Parenthood in Oklahoma? So everyone knows?

Or can employees just ask for an unspecified $400 reim without telling them why?

Will women do this?

gristy

(10,667 posts)
28. I would guess that Microsoft will hire a 3rd party to implement the policy
Tue May 10, 2022, 04:12 PM
May 2022

The 3rd party will do all the work and keep all documents secure and provide anonymized summaries back to Microsoft.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
38. But their employer is still going to get that bill
Tue May 10, 2022, 05:15 PM
May 2022

Jane Doe who works at Microsoft TX applies for a $400 voucher to use at a clinic in Oklahoma and we’re supppsed to believe Microsoft isn’t going to know what’s going on, even if they’re using a third party?

I’m honestly trying to figure out how this will realistically work. Exactly how does using a third party help with this situation?

gristy

(10,667 posts)
42. The 3rd party will pay the bills, roll up the aggregate expense and invoice microsoft.
Fri May 13, 2022, 03:04 PM
May 2022

A 4th party could conceivably be hired to audit the 3rd party.
The 3rd party could even be an insurance company. MS takes out a policy for big bucks on behalf of all their employees, and the insurer takes it from there.
So many ways to skin this cat.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
43. Even to pay for the commission of a crime?
Fri May 13, 2022, 03:38 PM
May 2022

Don’t forget getting an abortion will be a crime.

There are some states moving to classify it as murder.

Once that’s in place the states can subpoena medical and financial records. Will these companies pay to shield their employees records (or pay for their legal defense against murder since they facilitated the commission of this crime?)

Thank you for your insights into how big corp will handle this

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
44. It will be almost certainly be administered as part of their health care package.
Fri May 13, 2022, 04:45 PM
May 2022
The software maker will “support employees and their enrolled dependents in accessing critical health care — which already includes services like abortion and gender-affirming care — regardless of where they live across the U.S.,” according to a statement Monday. “This support is being extended to include travel expense assistance for these and other medical services where access to care is limited in availability in an employee’s home geographic region.


You don't think they go to their boss to ask for gender-affirming care now, do you? That is handled through their insurer, with a HIPAA wall between those managing payment for care and the employer.

Not to mention that this travel is available for "other medical services where access to care is limited in availability in an employee’s home geographic region." This is a huge benefit for those of us with rare diseases who need to be treated in specialty centers outside of our home state. Specialized care from high volume centers can often make the difference between life and death for those of us with rare diseases. We live in Ohio. My daughter's rare disease is best treated in Minnesota. My rare disease is best treated in NY or TX.

I'm not sure why the first thought of so many people is that in order to receive the benefit of this that it will require disclosure to your boss about the need to use the fund. Receiving health care benefits does not require disclosure of the nature of the illness or condition to your employer, rather than to the third party managing medical benefits.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
47. Abortion will be a crime. Helping someone get an abortion IS a crime
Fri May 13, 2022, 05:38 PM
May 2022

In Texas already.

Crossing state lines to get an abortion will become a crime in the near future.

Will third parties participate in committing and facilitating the crime of “murder”?

Helping trans children get gender affirming care is now “child abuse” in some states. Are third parties participating in “child abuse” now when they help company employees families?

Thank you for input on this. I’m not being snarky. I honestly want to know.

I presume your medical care is not a crime. I’m trying to ascertain how this works when the employee and/or the company are committing “murder” (or “child abuse”)

Furthermore, there is no shield here from the law. HIPAA doesn’t apply to crimes and law agencies can access those records if they believe there’s criminal activity

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
48. The question I was addressing disclosure to employers.
Fri May 13, 2022, 08:41 PM
May 2022

The question I was addressing is the repeated concern that individuals would not want to disclose to their employer that they need to travel for an abortion. The exceptions to HIPAA don't include permitting a third party medical clearing entity to disclose the reason for the expenditure to the employer.

Whether the HIPAA exception would permit that 3d party clearing entity to disclose information to law enforcement, or in response to a subpoena, is an entirely different question (and one which will likely take some time to play out in court).

The draft opinion overturning Roe leaves states free to prohibit abortion within the boundaries of their state. It does not make abortion a federal crime, nor does it required that every state outlaw abortions. Obtaining an abortions in a state in which abortion is legal is not a crime.

There are strong constitutional presumptions regarding the right of citizens to travel between states (commerce clause, privileges & immunities are two such provisions). States are generally constitutionally prohibited from restricting travel for the purpose of engaging in imterstate commerce (e.g. to obtain (and pay for) abortion services.)

That doesn't mean there won't be states which try to make it a crime - just that such attempts are extremely unlikely to be successful.

So - it is unlikely that the HIPAA exception would permit that 3d party clearing entity to disclose information to the state under the exceptions related to criminal activity.

Gender affirming care likely falls into the same category - although it is more complicated because it isn't a one-time thing, and would involve continued care within the state which makes it illegal (e.g. puberty blocking medication taken on an ongoing basis).

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
49. Are you willing to bet on this SCOTUS following "constitutional presumptions"?
Fri May 13, 2022, 09:57 PM
May 2022

Should employees of these companies bet on this SCOTUS adhering to precedent?

However “unlikely” it is that companies won’t disclose your “criminal” medical history to law enforcement, that chance isn’t zero. Should employees gamble on that and involve their company?

I think these concerns ARE related to the point about employees reluctance to tell their employer that they need funds/time off for an abortion (or transgender care for children). All of this will go down in TX (for example) where Tesla is based to name one company that’s offered this.

Should employees trust that red state HR managers/third party entities can be trusted to keep criminal behavior confidential?

I do appreciate the discussion. I’m not adversarial with you. I’m deeply worried that companies are cavalierly offering up this “perk” so they don’t have to face the hard truth about what their campaign donations have wrought.

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
50. You're conflating two things:
Fri May 13, 2022, 11:02 PM
May 2022

1. What I was addressing - employee's reluctance to disclose the reason for their medical travel to their employer

and

2. The legality of state bans on travel.

Employee reluctance to tell employer

There are existing systems for employers to pay for medical care for their employees without receiving any knowledge about the reason for that care. All of this, even in small businesses (third parties), is handled by third parties - generally insurance companies. This is true regardless of the system - from the system I had in my small firm, in which my employers reimbursed me directly for every medical expense not covered by insurance to standard insurance plans, to employers (like Microsoft) which are self-insured. In every instance of which I'm aware, the payment of medical expenses (to providers or reimbursement to employees) is made by a third party bound by HIPAA. This additional covered expense will be covered the same way. It will be similar to my employer's unusual reimbursement of all out-of-poclet expenses: I submitted all receipts to a third party. The third party reviewed them to make sure they qualified, that I hadn't double-billed them, etc. They informed my employer of the amount I was to be reimbursed. My employer cut the check. (In other instances, the third party reimbursed me directly from funds either I (or my employer) had deposited in advance.

Only the third party knows, and is bound by HIPAA not to disclose the information to the employer. The employer has no ability to disclose an employee has had an abortion because they don't know (unless the employee chooses to tell them).

The offer to provide travel assistance for non-local care is a good (and long overdue) thing. People with rare diseases often both incur extraordinary expenses because we hit the out-of-pocket maximum every year ($2,000 - $8,000 in expenses most people hit perhaps once every 10 years or so). In addition, our care is often so specialized that local care isn't good enough. I'm not aware of any employer who covers these expenses. There are a half a dozen centers which see enough individuals with my disease to be competent to treat it, and around the same for my daughter's. When we travel for care, it is completely out-of-pocket. Every single company which has offered to pay medical expenses has used similar language - travel for medical care which is not available locally.

Disclosing anything to your employer about your health is a two-edged sword. You may be entitled to accommodations and FMLA - but you can also be looked at as a resource drain (and potentially less competent). It's not an identical question to abortion - but deciding whether to take advantage of the resources available, when doing so means disclosing to anyone (a third party intermediary, HR, your employer) is not unique to abortion.

Legality of state bans on travel

That's a much bigger question, which goes well beyond (and isn't directly related to) the question I was answering.

Anyone getting an abortion (or assisting someone in getting an abortion) will have to weigh who to trust, and how much they are willling to trust the legal system to do the right thing.

I'm pretty confident that state bans on travel for abortion will be declared unconstitutional. Unlike privacy, interstate comerce is explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, and is governed by the Federal Government (not the states). Part of Alito's analysis in the draft relies expressly on the silence in the constitution as to abortion. Side-stepping the constitution and upholding a state ban on travel would be similar to upholding a state ban on possession of firearms (since the right to bear firearms is expressly mentioned in the constitution). I'm a bit surprised that the court used this case to overturn Roe v. Wade - but that surprise relates only to the instant reversal, as opposed to overturning it a couple of years from now, not to it being overturned.

There is certainly a risk in trusting anyone or the law, especially in the near future until the first laws start making their way through the courts and we see if they . Women who need an abortion in states where they are banned are going to need to make hard choices as to who to trust. If they have an employer who provides medical travel assistance, choosing to take advantage of it ill be just one of those choices. But having that option is better than not having it. Just like having friends/family in statew where abortion is legal is better than not - even if you ultimately choose not to trust them.

Lonestarblue

(10,024 posts)
29. I'd also like to see companies offer to pay expenses to move out of red states.
Tue May 10, 2022, 04:27 PM
May 2022

Women of reproductive age should seriously consider moving to a blue state once Roe is overturned. The religious right will not atop there either. They will pressure the Supreme Court, which probably needs to coercion, to overturn LGBTQ rights and outlaw all forms of birth control. It would take years to see change, but if young women move away, along with LGBTQ, eventually it will have an impact because young men are likely to follow. Already some families with trans kids have moved out of Texas because of the draconian new policy allowing charges of child abuse for providing gender-affirming healthcare to a trans child. No family wants to see their trans child removed from the home and place in the Texas foster care system—one of the worst in the nation known for regular physical and sexual abuse.

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
45. It will almost certainly be handled the same way all other medical expenses are -
Fri May 13, 2022, 04:53 PM
May 2022

by a third party bound by HIPAA not to disclose medical information.

This is not a problem unique to abortion - employers already have mechanisms in place to provide health care to employees without requiring disclosure of sensitive medical information. Even when the plan is self-funded. Even when federal regulations require documentation of the precise nature of the need to disburse funds (FSA, HSA, etc. funds).

Heck, my small employer (fewer than 15 people) paid for all medical expenses not covered by insurance. Even in that scenario, all out-of-pocket expenses were submitted to a third party which reviewed them to determine they were covered, and then reimbursed me and sent the bill to the employer.

I'm sure this will be handled the same way (as a pass-through managed by a third party, or as part of health care coverage, also managed by a third party).

And anyone who doesn't trust a third party which is bound by law not to disclose to their employer is free to reject the benefit and pay out of pocket.

erronis

(15,306 posts)
31. So, in the end the poor unemployed women will be penalized. Again.
Tue May 10, 2022, 04:45 PM
May 2022

Why are we applauding employers who give special benefits to their employees?

Why aren't we figuring out how all women can choose for themselves. Not needing to go to their HR department, or ask hubbie for permission, or taking out a loan (if possible), or undergoing a dangerous unsupervised procedure?

Have the federal government send out abortifacients to every household - just like covid tests. I'd love to watch the RWNJs heads pop on this one.

not a texan

(39 posts)
39. time to move out of those states
Tue May 10, 2022, 05:24 PM
May 2022

Start moving those jobs out of those states. It can't be too much longer and there will no longer be any person with enough education to hire from those states anyway after they ban and burn the books. No new employee will want to move to that state for a job. If you take a long view, now is the time to start the transition.

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