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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy have no higher ups been arrested?
MSNBC has been covering the John Eastman emails all day. He carefully orchestrated a plan to throw out ballots in enough areas to give Trump the win.
Why hasn't he been arrested yet? Why hasn't Mark Meadows been arrested? Why hasn't Navarro been arrested? Why hasn't Trump been arrested?
If you or I did a fraction of what these people did, we'd already be sitting in jail.
This really feels like the Mueller report all over again. We think something is going to happen, and never does.
What is Garland and the DoJ doing? There is no justification for zero arrest warrants for these people.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)But Im sure you will be told it takes time.
😏
Irish_Dem
(47,302 posts)Trueblue1968
(17,237 posts)Irish_Dem
(47,302 posts)Stuart G
(38,439 posts).................it really wasn't over till Nixon resigned. Took a long time then, and now too.
.................You got to have ...SOLID PROOF!!!
We ain't there yet, but we are getting there. The proof is gradually getting out. It will be up
to Joe Biden, if he sends Trump to prison. Yes, Trump is guilty, but the proof must be attained legally.
.....................We are still having hearings, the proof will come, and it will be.. absolute proof. Why? say that.
......................Very Simple Indeed:.....Donald Trump is an absolute crook who thinks he can get away with everything
.......................Yes, it is that simple..but sometimes it takes time to get the ... ABSOLUTE SOLID PROOF
......................AND ONE MORE.....TIME IS ON OUR SIDE, NOT THE SIDE OF DONALD TRUMP!
Fiendish Thingy
(15,651 posts)Most of the significant physical evidence/documents have only emerged in the past few months.
Rushed indictments result in acquittals or dismissals.
DOJ wont seek indictments until their case is ready.
Real life isnt like Law & Order where crimes are investigated prosecuted and convicted within the hour.
Eastman is going to prison.
SoCalDavidS
(9,998 posts)On Law & Order, the bad guys are held ACCOUNTABLE.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,651 posts)Pun intended.
Scrivener7
(50,992 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(15,651 posts)And his prosecution was easier for DOJ and charges were simpler.
Your 16 month timetable is way off as well, since most of the significant evidence has emerged since the beginning of the year when SCOTUS ruled against Trumps privilege claims (Biden ordered another tranche of Trump documents released just today), and when Pences staff, some of whom were in the room when the coup was plotted, have testified to the committee.
So, really, its been about 5 months since the evidentiary floodgates opened. Not much time to prepare a case that will result in conviction.
Scrivener7
(50,992 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(15,651 posts)Seditious conspiracy is a complex, difficult charge to prosecute- the insurrectionists being prosecuted for seditious conspiracy only received those indictments because of intercepted recordings and messages stating their intent to overturn the election/interfere with the electoral count.
The seditious evidence on the coup architects, showing intent and other required criteria for conviction has only been released in the last few months.
By comparison, Mitchell was convicted of obstruction, perjury, and simple (non-seditious) conspiracy- for prosecutors, a much simpler task to get a conviction.
gab13by13
(21,385 posts)if they didn't they are dumber than the Michigan AG because she was told by the National Archives that they received fake electors documents.
The Eastman coup plan was known about 7 months ago.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,651 posts)The Eastman coup plan was revealed in somebodys tell all book (Woodwards?) last fall, but the documents werent released until after SCOTUS ruled on Trumps privilege claims in January, and they are still coming out from different sources (latest batch is from University of Colorado, IIRC).
DOJ wants an overwhelming, incontestable amount of solid physical evidence to present to the grand jury, and then the courtroom jury.
Im fine waiting until the end of this year/early next year for indictments that are less likely to be dismissed or result in acquittals.
Scrivener7
(50,992 posts)Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #39)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,651 posts)Dont know how closely you follow politics, but the presidents party almost always loses seats in the first midterms. Inflation is pushing 9%.
Losing Roe and the January 6 hearings are the only atypical factors that might tip the balance in Dems favor this cycle, but a lot of that will depend on the effectiveness of Dems messaging on those issues.
DOJ indictments later this year might help, but I havent seen any serious person suggest it will make or break the outcome of the midterms.
Demsrule86
(68,639 posts)(whiny voice) Merrick Garland yada yada was never voting with us anyway and could never be a dependable vote...Oh, Democrats won't do what I want...damn it...time to elect Republicans because that would be so much better Yeah right.
Marius25
(3,213 posts)That's what the majority of Americans care about.
Grasswire2
(13,571 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Smh.
Ohio Joe
(21,761 posts)The old 'The party not in power wins big in the mid-terms' bundled up with 'Dems are doing nothing about 1/6'. Yet... Here we are, 6 months out and running neck and neck... You would think it would show by now but... The public hearings coming up... The overturning of Roe yet to show it's effect... But hey, lets call running a proper investigation a loser... We should be crying 'lock them up' instead, just like... Who did that? Someone... Let me think...
former9thward
(32,066 posts)He was indicted in early 1974. So about 7 months from the time of the crime. And that was when the DOJ was being run by the same party as the people they were indicting.
This DOJ is run by the opposite party of those they would indict so they aren't "indicting the boss". Far, far easier.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,651 posts)former9thward
(32,066 posts)Not me....
Fiendish Thingy
(15,651 posts)It and still took almost 3 years to put him in prison.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)Is that your example now? In Jan 2024 will you still be saying it takes 3 years?
Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #12)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
msfiddlestix
(7,285 posts)Guess I missed the news he's finally been arrested.
took long enough. when is his sentencing to take place, I don't want to miss it.
SoCalDavidS
(9,998 posts)Demsrule86
(68,639 posts)StarryNite
(9,458 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)that would lead to criminal charges. Sucking up to trump is poor taste at best, but not criminal.
SoCalDavidS
(9,998 posts)Oh well, maybe next time.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)but we gotta have evidence unless the core of the DOJ's case is, "we know they are guilty."
Just_Vote_Dem
(2,818 posts)They saw it on the teevee!!!!!!!!!!
SoCalDavidS
(9,998 posts)I really think we should be envious of TFG. He obviously knows what he's doing. Since he's gotten away with stuff his whole life, and there's not enough evidence to even charge him with a crime, he's a master tactician.
I suppose we'll just have to live with the consequences, if he runs again.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)or wrongly.
Trying to keep him off the ballot by looking to the end of earth is not democracy. Either the evidence is there, or it's not.
He's unfit for office, but that's all we really know and that is not a crime.
SoCalDavidS
(9,998 posts)Doesn't seem like "beating him at the polls" stood in the way of his attempting to overturn the last election.
gab13by13
(21,385 posts)the insurrection continues.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)trump staff didn't help in transition. But why would Biden's staff even want those fools to help?
Besides, trying to keep someone off a ballot just doesn't seem right in a democracy. I could probably make an exception for trump, but doubt it's even necessary. He'll be dead in a few years and is losing appeal.
Scrivener7
(50,992 posts)sweet spot?
gab13by13
(21,385 posts)so we have a majority in Congress, oh wait. Beating them at the polls won't gain accountability.
Grasswire2
(13,571 posts)...that allow them to replace electors with their own slate.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Proud Boyz showing them where to enter the Capitol, you have him.
If all we've got is trump said "fight," we are in trouble.
Scrivener7
(50,992 posts)easy to believe because it was a paper case. But that disappeared.
The proof in the obstruction of justice case was quite public, but the statute of limitations on that has run out.
This insistence that "ho hum we never bring cases because there is never any proof" doesn't really jive with reality.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)got mad because the DA overruled them by saying something like, "we don't have enough evidence, not one witness to testify as to trump's involvement."
They aren't the first old guys who quit when a young boss -- with more responsibility and things to worry about they those 2 guys can even imagine -- said, No. I hope that's the extent of their dissatifaction.
It is not a paper case. The DA has to PROVE trump, not his staff, intended to defraud the city, state. Admittedly, we all know that is true, but you have to prove it.
The trump organization will still have to pay back taxes if the tax authority can prove they manipulated things. But that's far from a criminal conviction.
The solution would be for trump to just drop dead eating fried chicken.
Scrivener7
(50,992 posts)Cases brought against him in NYC ALWAYS mysteriously disappear.
And they always have.
Carlitos Brigante
(26,501 posts)sure you'll have plenty to back it up. Right, Capt. Evidence?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Carlitos Brigante
(26,501 posts)prove the horseshit you've been repeating ad nauseam.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Carlitos Brigante
(26,501 posts)sure in your head you think you're being clever. But it's just sad. Criticizing someone, when their own colleagues are being critical. Is not not anywhere in the orbit of "this guy is a Donald Trump lackey". That's one. Two, I'm still waiting for you to back up your claims about this being just some "generational thing". You see, I don't need to make up some bullshit to be critical of someone. Maybe you should try it. What all this tells me is that you're not interested in honest discussions. Just some sub-par trolling, at best.
But hey, good luck with all that.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)two old guys are right about there being sufficient evidence to convict trump, and the DA is shrieking his duty (which apparently to you guys is to indict trump not matter what else is going on in Manhattan)?
Carlitos Brigante
(26,501 posts)lame ass rhetorical games aside. These are not some geriatric patients they pull out so they me retirement home. Your weird obsession with their age as a sort of device to weasel yourself out of these arguments, mean dick to me. Where I come from, it's called experience. If you have any evidence, anything at all that indicates these persecutors are incompetent, unethical, what have you. Put up, or please STFU. You're embarrassing yourself.
Again, I know I'm wasting my time here, but point out where you're getting the whole "they don't like the guy". This ain't high school or the playground. These are grown ass men who stepped away from jobs in the private sector, to build a case against the dumbest fucking high profile criminal I've seen in my life. They put in the work. They believe they had a case. This isn't some "neener, neener, we don't like you." type situation. If you claim that it is. Bring the receipts. This is the third time I've asked to bank up your made up claims. You're still unable to point to anything concrete. What makes you think they're lying?
Do yourself a favor and stay away from the childish strawmen. Regardless of what else is going on in Manhattan, and not a single person has claimed this is the only case they should work on. A prosecutor should be able at a bare minimum, to walk and chew gum.
Lastly, look up the meaning of shrieking.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Carlitos Brigante
(26,501 posts)who the fuck this guy was up until a few months ago. And now you're crying like he's your daddy. Pathetic.
WarGamer
(12,463 posts)gab13by13
(21,385 posts)without investigations everything else is moot.
FuzzyRabbit
(1,969 posts)There was a section in the book where the author explained why some workers are assigned company uniforms and others aren't. The executives who make these decisions decide that themselves and everyone above them in the hierarchy can wear their own clothes, everyone below them must wear a (usually embarrassing) uniform.
Lawyers are pretty much the same. They will not prosecute government officials who they think outrank them. TFG, Mark Meadows, etc were higher ranking officials than justice department attorneys, therefore they will not be prosecuted for their crimes.
Sorry to be such a gloomy Gus, but he sooner we accept this the sooner we can focus more on things we can do something about.
onecaliberal
(32,887 posts)Theyre making a list and checking it thrice.
Just in case its not patently obvious.
Scrivener7
(50,992 posts)They must be harangued and insulted.
Just_Vote_Dem
(2,818 posts)People who understand how long the system can take get insulted and harangued when they try to explain how long the justice system can take. It took years before the guy who nearly killed my aunt finally came for trial, and he ended up getting away with it anyway.
gab13by13
(21,385 posts)What takes time are the appeals and scheduling trials then appeals. To get there someone needs to look for evidence, the select committee does not indict.
Scrivener7
(50,992 posts)Response to Marius25 (Original post)
SoCalDavidS This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ohio Joe
(21,761 posts)I've been hearing the 'the party not in power wins big in the mid-terms' meme since President Biden was elected and yet... Here we are six months out and running neck & neck. We still have the televised hearings coming up, plus the effect of repugs overturning Roe is still to be felt... I think I'll pass on the baseless doom and gloom about November.
Demsrule86
(68,639 posts)in any way.
SoCalDavidS
(9,998 posts)Just because I'm pointing out something that I believe will cost them votes, does not mean I don't support them.
If you can't see that Democratic voters will feel demoralized, if there is no accountability, then I don't know what to tell you.
I'm not the only one to express this opinion at DU, and the others who did support Democrats too.
bucolic_frolic
(43,257 posts)and many would be dragged down with them, and our guys would be persecuted if we set this precedent. So the powers that be are grappling with the ramifications of prosecuting high political crimes.
choie
(4,111 posts)can hold their leaders accountable, but the exceptional U.S.A. can't.
BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)And it removes any claim to the greatness of our democracy.
bucolic_frolic
(43,257 posts)Elite crimes tend to get buried and not travel overseas. Are the Brits or the Canadians or the Australians doing any better? How about the French or Israelis or the Italians? They catch their criminal leaders, years and years later.
Demsrule86
(68,639 posts)electing Republicans who will further destroy the courts and everything else? There may not be enough fucking evidence for a conviction. I don't know for sure. However this I know, it was not voting for the Democratic nominee in 16 General that placed us in this situation and elected Trump. My suggestion is to stop with the Blackmail that is rampant (nice midterm you got there and if you don't XYZ...it might not be so nice) on this thread and vote for Democrats in the midterm...for Fuck sake there was a SCOTUS justice already on hold in 16.
And still, we heard 'but her emails'...now we hear if 'we can't get indictments yadda, yadda. It's the same thing and will cause worse consequences than even 16. There is never any reason to elect Republicans-not ever. So let's all put our differences aside, put on our big girl/ big boy pants, and vote a straight Democratic ticket in the midterm. We need to all show-up. This midterm is a BFD.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,494 posts)In America and most of the free world, money and asset control means power and little else counts. Lying to, and deceiving our general public seems an admirable quality for many. Throwing shade and projecting are now graduate-level skills. Having white skin provides access to the free and easy lane.
Because there are no statutory penalties for intentionally lying for political or monetary gain ('cause free speech and aww shucks), corporations and the ultra-wealthy can continue to brainwash the public and control more of our lives.
In my experience, our system of justice protects the wealthy and can destroy a good working person's life with one arrest for petty crime.
KY
Efilroft Sul
(3,581 posts)ChazII
(6,205 posts)the jury will rule.