Serious question: Was former DUer Catherina some sort of Russian disinfo op?

[Tommy Carcetti]

Normally, I don't give much thought about long gone DUers, but I was searching Twitter and I came upon an old--and yet very familiar--Twitter handle: @Catherina_News

@Catherina_News was the Twitter handle for an individual who posted here at DU between 2008 and 2015 under the name Catherina. During that time period she posted over 35,000 times and grew quite the following here at DU, with many fans and admirers calling for her opinion and take on various topics. I can recall more than one "Catherina Appreciation thread."

She wasn't just a regular poster; she was a bit of a board superstar, and she came with her very own fan contingent.

Her focus, however, seemed to be aimed for the most part at various international conflicts that she seemed to pin as overreaching acts of American imperialism. First it was Libya, then it was Syria, and finally it was Ukraine.

Either coincidentally, or very much not, Catherina's take seemed to closely mirror a lot of talking points on Russian state media. This particularly became very prominent towards the end when she weighed in on news surrounding the 2014 Maidan revolution in Ukraine, the subsequent Russia's seizure and annexation of Crimea, and the proxy Russian separatist war in Eastern Ukraine that erupted thereafter.

With benefit of 20/20 hindsight (or is it 2022 hindsight?) we can see how much of Catherina's positions on Ukraine here at DU were simply parroting raw Russian disinformation. However, because she came with her own cheering section, a lot of people bought into the information in her posts and repeated it without questioning. And that really put a cloud over events that were happening in Ukraine and Russia during that time period and many DUers' understanding of the situation.

But what was most tragic about the Catherina situation was that even as many DUers seemed to admire her as a vocal advocate against reckless western imperialism, she was on Twitter laying attack against American Democrats and progressives, viewing them as brainless sheep and eviscerating President Obama (who was the sitting president at the time, mind you) in rather plain, unequivocal terms:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

/photo/1

Meanwhile, she was far, far kinder to the head of the Russian Federation during that same time period:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Anyways, Catherina remained extremely popular with a segment in DU up through the end in 2015 before running into the buzzsaw that was the 2015-16 DU primary wars. She posted this rather obnoxious and self-indulgent GBCW post announcing her departure in November 2015:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027366316

Now, again with the benefit of hindsight, we know there was a huge amount of Russian originated disinformation that flooded social media and the internet from 2014 and on forward. We know that a lot of this permeated into DU, both as it related to issues about Ukraine-Russia in 2014-15 and about the 2016 presidential election itself (for both primaries and general). We also know that DU was taken down in a DDOS attack for two weeks following the 2016 election. I have no idea who was behind this, and if it was a domestic or a foreign attack, but perhaps the admin knows more?

But about Catherina in particular--and note that I usually don't care about the real-life alter egos of our posters. I do have to wonder what her "deal" was/is, because she did have a rather considerable persuasive hold on a lot of her fellow DUers.

Clearly, one look at her Twitter account (starting with her avatar) seems to indicate she holds Russia in very high esteem and the US in very low esteem. Is this just the case of a very enthusiastic "Tankie" (i.e. an apologist for the Soviet Union and its history)? Or are we looking at some sort of Internet Research Agency/Savushkina Street styled operation here? And is DU even important enough to merit such a targeted operation?

There were not a whole lot of details about Catherina that we knew. A few of her fellow posters claimed she lived somewhere in Latin America or abroad, and that she was supposedly a woman of color. At this point, who knows? Maybe she was. Then again, her close tracking of Russian disinformation does make me wonder.

And for whatever it's worth, the @Catherina_News twitter account mysteriously went silent around September 2014 about the same time many people (including myself) began to note of her anti-Democrat, anti-American progressive postings on Twitter.

It remained silent for 8 years...until a month ago, when the account suddenly began retweeting posts about the war in Ukraine.

[JoanofArgh]

1. I remember I looked at her Twitter account back then and there were a bunch of tweets posted in

Russian. I don't know if she lived in Russia ( she claimed South America) but I think she was being paid by somebody.

[samsingh]

2. i think you have a good point. It seems to be a russian plotter

[AZProgressive]

3. Probably a dupe

Hard to tell the difference between dupes and ops but there are plenty of gullible people that repeat Russian propaganda.

DU would probably be targeted but I haven’t seen pro Russia talking points in a long time so MIRT is probably doing a good job of preventing those type of accounts or they stopped coming here.

[LakeArenal]

4. We aren't allowed to call them out in real time.

As it turns out Starfish Saver and Effie Black turned out to be the same person or fake people and I stopped commenting as it was useless to try. So much pushback from the fans.

[Meowmee]

8. I was wondering

I asked once early on who the official trolls were etc. and someone said it was obvious but it is not always so obvious to me.

[CrackityJones75]

134. There are many trolls here

I have ran an online forum on a different topic for over a decade. The number of trolls here is shocking. I don’t mean people that are spirited in discussion. I mean the number of people here only to create discord. I like the administrative setup here but I am not sure it doesn’t get gamed and abused.

[Meowmee]

135. That was my impression as well.

Admin needs to do a better job imo to stop such posts/ people.

[betsuni]

136. I've been called a troll, paid by David Brock, a Republican, wealthy, stupid, because I

support Democrats, don't think they're corrupt corporatist warmonger status quo neoliberals blah blah blah insult, etc. Depends on what the definition of troll is. Anyone who calls Democrats corrupt corporatist warmonger status quo neoliberal blah blah blah are the ones creating discord.

[PatSeg]

154. The really good, professional trolls

usually aren't obvious. The in-your-face trolls are likely to be called out and expelled.

[Meowmee]

173. Yes true

and people can say things that seem trollish to some but they aren't actual trolls.

[PatSeg]

181. Yes

A lot depends on your frame of mind. If you are looking for "trolls", you are apt to find them everywhere. We've become so combative and defensive, we often see what isn't there. Sometimes it is just a difference of opinion.

[hlthe2b]

14. Hmmm. I'd always thought that might be the case.

I can recall both some good and some occasional unpleasant interactions with the "combo"... However, that whole "wypipo" episode was so OTT that I always thought it was intended to incite drama.

[Scrivener7]

45. I trashed the term after a while.

[canetoad]

89. So did I

And there it still sits in my Trash list.

[Tommy Carcetti]

49. Oh, so that guy was "wypipo" guy?

Yeah, that did seem to be rather on the nose to create division and an image.

[hunter]

58. I'm still laughing my ass off about that "drama."

Am I only allowed to laugh at wypipo 'cause I is one?

Growing up in a place that was 99% white and affluent left me a little twisted.

The only thing that saved me was that I was a bit queer and never fit in.

[Effete Snob]

29. I did not know that

Wow.

[intheflow]

32. What?! Starfish Saver and Effie Black were the same?!?

🤯 I had no idea!

[kentuck]

149. They attacked everything I posted.

[RobinA]

167. I Didn't Either

but I did have them both blocked because they didn't allow anyone to disagree with them.

[catsudon]

52. woah

got a story/link on that? i missed it.

[LakeArenal]

54. You might try the search engine. I think the thread by Earl G was pinned.

It’s true. You notice no one is pushing back on it.

[catsudon]

75. yikes

i fell into a rabbit hole .....

[hamsterjill]

60. Or many people.

I’m always suspicious of someone whose post count seems incredulous in an unreasonably short time frame. I questioned her on this and got alerted and a post hidden.

At that point, I figured I’d hit a nerve.

[LakeArenal]

62. Yep. That's how it worked. They knew how far to push to get disagreements an alert

It happened a lot. When we asked about it we were removed

Cancel culture.

[obamanut2012]

160. Accounts liek that can also be shared accounts

Especially if it's an account to sow discord. Like the "Nigerian Prince" type social media scams -- they literally have people posting in shifts. It is another way to rack up post counts.

[hamsterjill]

165. Exactly.

That was my suspicion. But, wow, did she develop a following on DU! If you disagreed with her, her “posse” would be on your ass in no time.

It was a relief in my opinion when she was gone. She was definitely posting for a specific agenda.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

180. I had a post hidden when I called Starfish Saver on its BS.

I recall possibly using the phrase "condescending know it all" in that post.

No regrets.

I didn't know it was tombstoned until I read your post.

[Iggo]

5. Meta!

[Scrivener7]

50. I confess: I find meta fascinating. Remember the meta forum? That

was like a mud pit. But you couldn't look away.

[hunter]

64. At times it was more like a collapsed septic tank...

... that a foul-mouthed drunken grandma had just fallen into.

[Scrivener7]

67. Sputter!

[Iggo]

68. That whole experiment was fascinating...and hilarious!

[Scrivener7]

70. I kind of miss it.

[hlthe2b]

76. It was adddictive. Often toxic, but addictive.

[Scrivener7]

116. It was. They were right to can it. But it was interesting while it lasted.

[obamanut2012]

161. I confess

Same.

[alphafemale]

6. There are pootpoot trolls all over the Internet

They are usually detected here.

[Hekate]

88. I think we have collectively learned something

[Cha]

7. e gods.. look at that line up of fans..

I'm going out on a limb here and say Catherina is full of Shit Troll whether a Russian troll or not..

poor Catherina.. Pres Obama upset her sensitivities.

💙💛

[AZSkiffyGeek]

19. I generally notice names I disagree with

But don't notice when they're gone. That thread is a who's who... And so many disappeared in June 2016, I wonder why?

[Cha]

22. Exactly.. a glaring reminder.. So Grateful!

💙💛

[DURHAM D]

20. Hi Cha

Did you notice how many people in that thread are no longer posting here at DU? Seems like everyone who supported her is gone for one reason or another.

[Cha]

24. Oh yeah... I noticed with

Gratitude!

Durham

💙💛

[Nixie]

26. +1000

It's very noticeable.

[meadowlander]

81. Although in fairness, DU crashed on election night in 2016 and a lot of accounts got crunched

when it was started up again. Plus the name change amnesty post Biden's election.

I started on DU in 2001 on my university account. Since I didn't have access to that email anymore in 2016 to verify the account I had to create a new account.

So a number of those people could still be around under different accounts or different names.

Not disputing that DU gets trolled and that people post in bad faith under fake accounts. It obviously does. I just don't think they all went away in 2016.

[yagotme]

94. Mine got crunched,

but I was working a lot of OT at the time, so I just read a lot. Few years back, when DU did a "reset", I got back in, with a reset password. Retired from job about same time, so, coincidence, anyone????

[AZSkiffyGeek]

119. A lot of the names I recognized ended up at JPR

A lot were “didn’t accept terms of service” in June 2016 when DU switched out of primary mode.

[Hortensis]

84. A lot of people of that type noisily refused to vote for Hillary in the GE,

and after the convention when we were all required to commit to voting for our candidate many refused and were denied access. How many returned under new names is another matter. We do know that to this day some still come here for material to post on the hostile forums they (also?) hang at.

Lol, DU "supports" a number of dependent satellite forums that'd go flat without the steam we provide.

[mcar]

111. They hated Pres. Obama with a passion, Cha

I remember how they started criticizing him on his first inauguration day because he didn't do x, y, z immediately.

Then, of course, we ended up with the 500+ response post where he was called a POS.

Then, the entire crew was banned or left after the 2016 primaries (which I am not refighting here) because Skinner and EarlG wouldn't let them call HRC, our Democratic nominee, the C word

[betsuni]

122. That shocked me. Everyone was united in opposition to the Bush administration, but some people

shifted seamlessly into immediately opposing Obama. I felt like a sucker for ever believing those people were who they claimed to be.

[LeftInTX]

168. I joined DU because I wanted to elect Democrats...

Last edited Thu May 19, 2022, 02:07 PM - Edit history (2)

The JPR group is more aligned with "anarchists"* than wanting to elect Democrats
That group is more protesty than anything

I doubt that many of them even vote. Or if they do vote it's usually for the Green Party. They may have voted for Bernie in 2016.

They just like to complain

*By anarchist, I'm not referring to violent anarchists, but who people who feel:
"The system is wrong"
"The system is always wrong"
"We need to abolish capitalism"
"Voting is not the answer"
"Disruption is the answer"
They don't see electing Democrats as a solution. They feel disrupting things is the means to accomplish their goals. (By disrupting, I mean disrupting people's thoughts online) (I'm not referring to violent anarchists)


They join a group called Democratic Underground..

Maybe they were attracted to the Underground and not the Democratic

We had a member with the name Tierra_y_Libertad https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=103524 He proudly stated that he was an anarchist. He was fairly popular here on DU.

My goal as a Democrat is to elect more Democrats.
I'm also a member of Indivisible. However, Indivisible often conflicts with Democrats. Indivisible's goal is to elect more left wing officials and "hold Democrats feet to the fire".

Here's a Susan Sarandon appreciation thread:
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1280104210

[Cha]

170. Yeah, I know.. I left for 2 years

because I couldn't stand their Slurring of Pres Obama.



💙💛

[relayerbob]

9. And there others who sneak in here now from time to time

Very hard to control it

[Elessar Zappa]

10. Either that or an ignorant dupe.

Glad she’s gone.

[SheltieLover]

11. Kicking for visibility

[BlackSkimmer]

12. I barely remember her, but if she was a troll - she wasn't the first and won't be the last.

[Budi]

13. Maybe Catherine wasn't even a real person. A bot or a Macedonian troll.

The words "American Imperialism" are straight up ref'd from the same ones who wanted NATO to stay out of Ukraine.

RU ops.
Like Catherine.

[Caliman73]

16. There are legitimate leftists that use the term.

The reality is that America has what would be called, an Empire. We have possessions in far off places that we administer same as the British Empire, the Spanish, and other Empires throughout history.

I think that you can legitimately call out things that American foreign policy engages in that can be imperialist, for example, the US interference in Central and South American that started under Monroe and continues to this day. The coups we helped in Iran, Brazil, Chile, etc... The arming of both Iran and Iraq in exchange for oil rights.


That said, you get a lot of co-opting and corruption of those arguments by trolls, and right wing sources who only seek to sow discord and division. You can legitimately criticize actions the US has taken, but that has nothing to do with criticisms of what other countries are doing.

The world is a complicated place. America has done, and continues to do some messed up stuff to different countries. That doesn't mean that Putin is somehow exonerated by those facts. Putin is essentially a dictator and has done equally if not more horrible things to people. The difference is that his reach is much much shorter.

[iemanja]

27. Yes, but defending Putin isn't a legitimate leftist position

It's either trolling or phenomenally stupid.

[Caliman73]

47. 100% correct.

Which is why I made the distinction.

There is no doubt that defending Putin to call out America's transgressions, is an act of utter ignorance or a deliberate and bad faith argument.

No legitimate left leaning or leftist critic of Capitalism or of the American system would hold up Putin as an example to criticize the United States.

[Budi]

34. His reach is thankfully shorter because of our NATO alliance

Our 5Eyes that have to keep a constant check on leaders like Putin, who will smash & grab at will, a peaceful country, murder its people just for posession of its resources.
Rulers like Putin is why NATO exists.

America isn't the imperialist.
But its a handy label used by those who would have preferred Putin run amok.

Checking the voting record makes that case.
If NATO countries hadn't offered the weaponry & assistance from their 1st meeting, where would Putin's invasion be today?

That wasn't US imperialism in action.
That was a global force against a tyrant.

[scipan]

74. Good post. I would take exception to one thing

Putin has done much worse things than the US has. Just look at his soldiers in Ukraine: Bucha, purposely and extensively bombing residential buildings, torturing civilians. And this is how they acted in Syria too.

Putin's guru, I forget his name, has a plan for Russia to take over maybe one third of the world, sharing it with Germany and China. And internally there is only one law: Putin's.

[bucolic_frolic]

15. Seeding MSM with such positions goes back several decades

Stories you would hear and say, that makes no sense.

[obamanut2012]

17. I think it was pretty obvious the poster wasn't real

As in, I think it was a shared account of RWs. Some of us discussed this privately years ago. Her bio also didn't add up.

[hlthe2b]

18. I remember her well. She had quite the following here and she was intelligent, but...

every once in a while she posted something that just seemed (at a minimum) not consistent or really provocative.

I actually hadn't realized she left on her own accord. Just noticed I hadn't seen her posts in some time.

You may be right, Tommy.

[Wednesdays]

21. I noticed that the overwhelming majority

of responders in the "farewell" DU thread have defunct accounts, dead for going on five years or more.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

25. And the bulk seemed to have disappeared right after Clinton won the nomination...

I think I've maybe found two that are still active....

[brooklynite]

23. It's nice to feel important, but DU does not drive politics in the outside world.

Why would Russian bots attempt to sway opinions here?

[iemanja]

28. The Russians try to sway opinion

all over the web, and not just in important places. I remember a lot of people that peddled Russian talking points about the election, whether they realized it or not.

[Tommy Carcetti]

30. In 2014 and 2015, it was rather obvious.

DU does not drive politics in the outside word in general.

However, it is one of the most highly trafficked message boards for Democrats and American progressives on the internet. There's a huge audience here.

In 2014--as in 2022--Russia was desperate to frame what was going on in Ukraine as American and western imperialism run amok, even though its actions were in reality driving the situation.

And it needed host individuals to drive that message.

Problem was, most American conservatives were rah-rah American jingoists not inclined to attack American policy.

On the other hand, there were a lot on the left still angry (and very justifiably so) about acts of overreach by the United States in Iraq. And so they attempted to transfer that justified anger about Iraq into some greater narrative about American imperialism in general, and then transpose it onto the situation in Ukraine, even though direct US involvement in Ukraine was rather limited other than offering basic moral support to a democratic (and therefore more western friendly) Ukraine.

So it made sense to play towards the hard and seemingly anti-war American left in order to co-opt those positions for their own selfish purposes. (Just as they made a play to co-opt legitimate support for Senator Sander's 2016 presidential bid in the primaries in order to turn it into a weapon against Hillary Clinton in the general election.)

I doubt DU was by any means their only target. I'm sure there were many, many targets. But it's not crazy at all to think we were indeed a target.

[AZProgressive]

41. Russia used active measures on both sides since 2014

They’ll tell the left that Ukraine has nazis but will turn around and blame the situation in Ukraine on Jewish oligarchs for the right wing. They were probably more effective in influencing the right wing based on the 2016 election results.

[Hekate]

92. You started an intriguing and valuable thread, Tommy C. Thanks.

[uponit7771]

102. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 If Trial balloons agro here they agro EVERYWHERE. That's not small time

[hlthe2b]

130. Yes. At first glance it is hard to think why they would target both the extremist RW and

Far Left, but opposite messages seemingly did work in some cases to achieve the same end. Manipulation works that way...

[OneGrassRoot]

137. Both groups share a common hatred...

Democrats and whatever they see "liberalism" to be. It is a visceral loathing of us, from both groups.

[W_HAMILTON]

51. Why do you?

Why were we hacked in 2016?

[Caliman73]

57. Bots are not a substantial investment.

Why not put them anywhere there is a gathering of people?

We are not a large site like Facebook or Twitter but we have the attention of at least one nationally syndicated radio program.

Do you actually think that there are no bots, trolls, or other agitators here?

Do you believe that all discussions and points of view are good faith arguments here?

[58Sunliner]

59. Feel free to post your assumption on a base of diminishing returns.

[IronLionZion]

65. Just like any other social media outlet

to divide and discourage us

[yardwork]

115. I remember a lot of pro-Russian and pro-BREXIT posts here.

There were definitely plenty of Russian trolls here there and everywhere.

[Hekate]

145. And pro-Calexit. The guy heading up that group IRL had his office in Russia, acc to the LA Times...

Which was hilarious — only not. Periodically we get a wave of posters who “sincerely” want the US to split up — and with Brexit underway, I guess they thought California should too.

[yardwork]

174. I forgot about them! Just ridiculous.

[moondust]

31. The hammer and sickle in the avatar

might be an indicator.

[Budi]

40. Yup, that kinda makes ya ask, Why would anyone use that as their logo?

When there's so many to choose from to represent what you stand for.

[Sympthsical]

33. I watched the Death of Stalin last night

Great movie, btw.

But the movie revolved around a lot of concern and jockeying about who was and was not most loyal, who was suspected of disloyalty, who was erased or not erased, had their histories revised, and past acceptable behaviors re-categorized as grave crimes against the collective now that the new order has refocused hindsight.

Makes ya think.

[obamanut2012]

35. Isn't that such a good movie???

[Sympthsical]

37. I hadn't read anything about it

Only that it was supposed to be really good. My first thought, "Why is everyone British, and why is Steve Buscemi Khrushchev?!"

And then it just got better and better and better.

[obamanut2012]

39. Yup, vastly underrated

[pecosbob]

96. A better alternative to having them all use fake Russian accents

[hlthe2b]

127. On Netflix?

[Sympthsical]

131. It's on AMC+ subscription on Amazon Prime

I just happen to currently have an AMC+ subscription for $5/month for the purposes of watching the final season of Better Caul Saul. So I've been trying to get my money's worth by watching things on it.

[hlthe2b]

132. Thanks! I have a 30 days left on a Comcast special for AMC+ so I will check it out.

[obamanut2012]

164. AMC+ via Prime

[egduj]

138. Such a hidden gem!

Or at least it was hidden from me. Brilliant movie.

[Cha]

36. This Post Exposes her Twitter feed about Pres Obama & putin..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027366316#post235

💙💛

[rockfordfile]

44. That person was un-American pos. Putin push anti-American propaganda against the President

[Kingofalldems]

48. Wow, I get the impression

that thread was filled with Russian trolls.

[Cha]

66. Yeah, a sad time on DU

Thankfully they're Gone.

💙💛

[mcar]

38. There were many Putin lovers here in those days

so glad they are gone.

[LeftInTX]

110. I know

[kentuck]

42. I remember her!

An interesting poster. She seemed to have a lot of information that the average DUer did not have access to. As I recall, she wrote a lot about Central and South America and Caribbean politics?

I had forgotten about her until you brought up her name. She was on here for a long time. I would not be surprised if she were a Russian disinformation asset.

[Tommy Carcetti]

46. I mean...maybe?

I'm just saying...when this is your reaction to a Putin Op Ed...

https://democraticunderground.com/10023649985#post6

[Hekate]

87. Yikes

[bigtree]

91. I need to take some time to remind myself of why I posted that and what it was about,

Last edited Wed May 18, 2022, 09:00 PM - Edit history (2)

...but tell me why the fuck you singled out a post of MINE in this thread about this troll?

Just fucked up, Tommy.

I do remember that Obama's 'reset' with Russia was in 2011, and that fell apart and Russia became a pariah again about 2014, when Putin first mobilized against Ukraine.

I still think bombing the runway at the Syrian airport was stupidity, and everything wrong with the use of force to achieve political aims, and basically the same U.S. arrogant militarism which had us assume were were rescuing Iraqis from their regime with our own corrupt one.

If you want to make an issue out of Cathrerina, fine, but don't drag me into it. I don't need or deserve this bullshit.

You started another Putin grudge thread the other day where current DUers are found, (H2O Man Will Pitt) in the thread you posted out of the blue, those posters rejecting another poster's anti-Putin screed. Hindsight allows you to do this, and it completely ignores the administration's rapproachment at the time with Russia.

This is my internet refuge, part of maintaining my mental health. I'm going to guess, since you blew off my PM like you didn't give a shit about smearing me in this troll thread and my reputation here. How hard would it be to just post Catherina's own thread on something or the other?

[Tommy Carcetti]

97. I was linking to Catherina's response, not your OP

Last edited Wed May 18, 2022, 09:31 PM - Edit history (1)

The link should have jumped directly to her response.

Nothing was wrong with your OP, which was perfectly fine and simply sharing the op ed piece without comment.

I sincerely apologize if you got the wrong impression or thought I was somehow attacking you or single you out. I can only tell you that was not my intention.

Didn’t mean to insinuate otherwise.

Sorry for any confusion.

[bigtree]

105. maybe because my post was dragged into this troll hunt

...or maybe because a few friends were caught up in another old post you dragged up for this, but this has the smell of McCarthyism

I'm not talking about your targets, but the people in your wake. This stinks, and I'm left to wonder why the link is still there.


here's my response in the other thread, which you ignored:

This was just a few years after Pres. Obama's 'reset' efforts

...being anti-Putin was the denizen of some unsavory republicans, then and now.

Rapprochement with our nuclear rival was also conversely seen as a measure of peace by many notable liberals, so I get the anti-war bent in rejecting suggestions that Russian aggression toward its border neighbor was something which should derail a softening of that repairing relationship with the U.S..

As NATO was trying to curtail Russian troop movements into Ukraine in response to elections in Crimea, the 2010 'reset' initiative of the Obama administration had to basically stop in its tracks and reverse.

I think that caught some folks in between aspirations for peaceful relations with Russia (ie. nukes) and what looked like the potential resumption of the Cold War. Pres. Obama agreed to expand missile protection to several former USSR occupied territories and states, and Russia simmered and sulked.

It wasn't hard to be caught up in the new detente, and have misjudged Putin's reneging on those understandings the U.S. had been working to get agreement on. After all, NATO was in a period where questions had surfaced about it's post Cold War purpose.

Many thought the new oppositional stance was opportunistic to keep NATO in place, ostensibly threatening Russia (remembering the virtual ring of missile defenses around Russia which they said threatened them) or perhaps, that's what the propaganda was pushing at the time.

Easy to lose the thread of the anti war sentiments of the past in the face of renewed Russian agression toward its former captive neighbors.

[Tommy Carcetti]

107. It was in no way meant to be an attack on you. Or anyone else who responded to your post.

I don’t know what else to tell you other than I didn’t mean to upset you and I apologize if I did.

And for what it’s worth, your response in the other thread was right on.

It wasn’t wrong for the Obama administration to pursue a reset. The optimistic hope was that the Medvedev administration might be more than just a puppet regime for Putin and there was a real chance for reproachment.

Unfortunately it didn’t pan out but it was worth a shot. Ambassador McFaul said as much, and I agree.

Unfortunately on this site in 2014 there was a contingent who felt intent on both disseminating disinformation and attacking the then Obama administration and everything associated with it. This was done to spread chaos and divide and sow the seeds for what took place in 2016.

This was never you and again I apologize if I gave you the impression that it was you.

[shrike3]

43. Would not surprise me.

I know real life people who spout the same talking points, and they get their info from "left wing media sources," whatever that means.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

53. Even though I check in with DU daily I don't recall Catherina.

In fact I manage to miss most of the trolls completely.

[UTUSN]

55. (Examining my scars: ) - Yip, found a couple or three from flamefests she coordinated.

Flames are usually based in single issues by activists turned zealots.

[LiberalFighter]

56. Good riddance!

[rockfordfile]

61. I'm curious

How many of those people that supported that pro-putin pos are still around? Looking at a comment from a person in a past thread from 2015, where that person knew about that poster supporting the murdering pos putin.

The other people in that past thread must've known about that pos posts for putin and against our President Obama.

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. She had conversations that weren't about international politics

so I suspect she's a tankie, rather than a plant or bot. See eg https://www.democraticunderground.com/1014137509#post2 - this one conversation I can find I had with her.

[Tommy Carcetti]

79. Interesting. Nt

[LiberatedUSA]

69. Slightly off topic, but in the same realm...

…I wonder whatever happened to Iverglas. I wonder if she ever, during the years, slipped back in with a new account. She had a certain way of posting, so it would be hard to hide if you knew what to look for.

[Scrivener7]

71. That thread is like the opening lineup for Jackpine Radicals.

Mannie Goldstein!

[Tommy Carcetti]

83. That guy was so obnoxious.

Really thought he was way more clever and funny than he actually was.

[betsuni]

125. When I first joined DU he was popular and I never knew what the hell was funny

or clever about "Third Way Manny." Calling Democrats Third Way neoliberals, guess that's hilarious to some people.

[Hekate]

141. Gawd. I had to train myself to not even look at his posts. Just another character in the 'hood, tho.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

155. One of those situations where I really should've blocked them

But I never did, just kept raising my blood pressure over "Eat your peas and cat food!"

[Hekate]

158. I hate blocking people (tho I have done so) because then subthreads disappear too

Still, there are a few…

[AZSkiffyGeek]

159. The only ones I have blocked are posters who spam

I can do without 50 threads saying the same thing in different ways and different forums over the course of a couple days.

[Harker]

72. You're on a roll lately with the archaeological finds.

I'll be interested to see what's next.

[Tommy Carcetti]

172. I'm not trying to make it a regular thing.

Nor am I trying to antagonize anyone who is still here who may have been receptive to some of that disinformation at the time, but has since recognized it for the bullshit that it was.

But do I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder for it all? Maybe. A bit.

The thing is, back in 2014 and 2015, there were posters like Catherina who were knowingly pushing false information about the situation in Ukraine and Russia. And they were getting tons of likes for it on every thread they posted, and appreciation threads for it. And pushing appreciation threads for the likes of Robert Parry and John Pilger who they were citing to push this false narrative. And there was a segment here--thankfully mostly gone, but it was large when it was here--who ate all of it up like candy.

And when I, and a small handful of other posters, tried to counter those lies with facts, we got no appreciation threads or mass likes. We were told we were neocons and war-mongers and sympathizing with Nazis and everything. Even though--as time has told--we were absolutely right.

And it wouldn't be a big deal except that this really was the first act of a multi-act play of mass disinformation efforts, all for further goals.

By 2014, certain Kremlin affiliated social media figures had already open admitted they were grooming Donald Trump to run for President in 2016.

And so the same efforts that got pushed about Ukraine in 2014--including on DU--were repeated two years later when the same folk sought to drive a wedge between Democrats during the primaries so that by the time a nominee was named, enthusiasm would be significantly chilled. And so everyone that were pushing lies about Ukraine began pushing lies about the 2016 primaries. It was just the natural progression.

And so yeah, I think I knew what was coming.

And thankfully DU in 2020 with the election and 2022 with Ukraine was not divided like it was in 2014 and 2016 because that problem had for the most part been excised.

But it did happen. And I can't forget that it happened.

So yeah.

[Harker]

175. I appreciate your thoughtfulness in replying.

Clearly, the lid's off.

[Tommy Carcetti]

186. And FWIW, Catherina was pushing Hillary's emails and the hacking thereof pretty hard.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1251552653#post126

[Harker]

187. Gads.

That's an ugly thread. Good to see some stalwarts in strongly voiced opposition.

I'd be immensely relieved to see the seemingly non-treasonous tiny minority of the republicans gather sufficient numbers in opposition to their fascist majority to fracture them along their faultlines in a similar manner to what our primaries led to for us.

Looks like the goose-steppers are going all in with their international right-wing allies.

I've read a fair bit of dystopian literature in my 60+ years, but did not see this coming until some time after Trumpsky won an election he had preemptively called "rigged."

Thanks for promoting vigilance, and for calling up the record, TC.

[Joinfortmill]

73. Wow!

[yaesu]

77. Well, they lasted that many years on DU without getting the boot so they must not have been too

off topic.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

78. I remember the name (back when I was simply BlueCheese)

I do remember that posted linked to RT a lot.

[Dave says]

80. Catherina who?

Ok, my memory isn’t what it used to be, but I don’t recall a single post by this user.

[BradAllison]

106. I remember someone once posted a bunch of photos of North Korea

I thought it was her, but may be wrong.

[betsuni]

82. That person broke the record for repeating the magic word "neoliberal."

[Hortensis]

86. Yes. The real clue to her following was anti-Democratic propaganda,

and still is. Never fails to get me all teary with bewildered distress, but not everyone on the left likes us.

Or is happy that the Democratic Party's liberal progressive agendas can draw 80 million voters while their attempt to hijack our issues need Russia's help just to spoil our chance to defeat the Republicans'.

Not America's finest or realest.

[Arazi]

95. I don't remember her as being anti-democratic, she was anti-American imperialism

There’s a strong contingent of Dems who grew increasingly bitter about American exceptionalism when we launched the Iraq War, exacerbated by the increasingly horrific money pit that was Afghanistan.

That contingent feel strongly that the wasted war $$ should be going towards healthcare, poverty programs, fair housing, college tuition etc.

They were strong Caitlin Johnstone fans iirc (who has grown increasingly bitter about America’s foreign policy and has recently gotten too whacky).

Some of the rhetoric may mimic Russian propaganda because let’s face it, we have sucked on foreign policy, which has severely damaged our domestic policy. Pointing that out isn’t “anti-democratic” however

[Hortensis]

103. Well, there are a lot of "influencers" whose schtick is undermining Democrats,

implanting distrust and disaffection, always claiming the highest ideals of course but wanting us to fail. Those are who I'm talking about, regardless of what issues they may hit.

Professionals, volunteer hostiles, passionate True Believers, whatever, DU's systems identify and kick a bunch out every day, but with just a little self discipline anyone can inject poison for years by posturing as a committed Democrat offering concerned criticism.

[Hekate]

85. Very interesting, Tommy C. I guess we'll watch developments...

I do have to say I’m glad she’s gone from DU.

…. Or is she? Now that we know, perhaps someone here will spot her return under a different name.

[MerryBlooms]

90. I was thinking the same thing, along with a few of her fan club.

[msfiddlestix]

93. Excellent question

I'm not much of a twitter participant, and only go there via posting on du. So I'm not aware of her twitter presence there.

But I do remember her back then on du. I recall generally her postings during Crimea invasion, and I recall her talent and skills in the art of persuasion, and what appeared to be a "learned scholar and historian" on matters regarding Russia and her history. Many references to Catherine the Great's reign in connection to Crimea.

I suffer from low vision, but I could swear I saw a swastika medal on her avatar image...

You just might be on to something...

[Hekate]

99. And you are?

[Hekate]

112. That was quick, Cunoze! Wonder what your reply was before you were PPR'd.

Bye, Felicia.

[hlthe2b]

128. Don't ya just hate it when you miss seeing the comment?

Of course, they say "curiosity killed the cat" so...

[Recursion]

100. There was a lot on DU in the early 2010s that smelled Russian

I'm still convinced JPR stands for Just Paid by Russia. Or maybe Just Putin Rhetoric.

[DFW]

171. A lot of the real Russians gave themselves away

I'm sure the IRA and Directorates/Units 26165 and 74455 of the GRU have figured out in the meantime that their trolls have to get a hand on how English speakers use articles like "a, an & the," if they want to stop being instantly spotted as Russians. It's very difficult for a native speaker of a Slavic language because they don't have articles in their languages, and it takes a LOT of practice to know when to use them, and when not to.

I guess I shouldn't gloat. When I see how many people post in Republicanese instead of English (for example, using an apostrophe to form a plural), I guess the Russian trolls get their snickers at our expense, too. Since no school in the English-speaking world teaches children to form a plural with an apostrophe, you'd think no English-speaking person WOULD write that way. But some do anyway.

[Renew Deal]

101. This looks more like hard left ranting

But the break in posting certainly is suspicious.

I recently and accidentally came across another prominent and notorious DUer on twitter, but she was clearly not a troll. She's posting pro-dem and pro-Ukraine stuff all the time. She got tombstoned in 2016.

[BradAllison]

104. Who remembers nadinbrzezinski ???

[Scrivener7]

113. Journo Nadin?

[AZProgressive]

114. I follow her on Twitter

Unlike the person in the OP she is the opposite of pro Russia. She even has a Ukraine flag as an avatar.

[BradAllison]

184. I didn't think she was Pro Russian per se

But she had a lot of conspiracy theories about the power grid and government agents at COMICON.

[GP6971]

117. Can one really forget her?

The master of all trades...NOT. Loved her request to the admins to delete her account. It was classic and was published in Monkey Mail. I'll see if I can find it.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

118. I just randomly ran across her on Twitter

She was doing decent work on Ukraine. I was surprised there weren’t any screaming coyotes mentioned.

[Raine]

120. I remember her ... one time we traded info on animals

I think she had birds but it's been awhile. 🤔

[Texasgal]

124. Who could forget Nads? N/T

[betsuni]

126. My favorite!

Proofreader's nightmare.

[treestar]

142. The journalist with the East County Times

Could find conspiracies everywhere. She had one on windmills and found another at ComicCon.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

156. I'd forgotten about the government agents cosplaying at Comic Con!

[BradAllison]

185. Oh it was windmills!

I knew she felt some form of new age energy was gonna kill us all.

[Hekate]

146. Okay you guys. I used to enjoy interacting with her, until something happened ...

She just seemed to slide into another realm. Hope she’s okay.

[obamanut2012]

162. oh god no

Yes, I do, but omg.

[LeftInTX]

108. There were many posters who were like her on DU

I remember someone saying that Russia regretted the demise of the USSR etc etc. There are alot of communist sympathizers that are holdouts from when "communism was cool"....

I basically ignore them because I know "where they're coming from"...Most of the time, they're from the US and think communism is some type of utopia.

People like that even learn Russian because they think "it's cool"....
She is probably more enamored with Russia/communism and perpetuated it here on DU.

That whole Russian loving gang joined JPR....

When I mentioned it could be been someone from JPR who hacked DU, people got all on my case and said I was making the Hillary/Bernie rift worse....

[DFW]

133. Some us learned Russian not only because of us thinking it was cool

Getting in touch with long lost roots/ancestors, and stuff like that, maybe going into the foreign service some day, foreseeing an era when it might be useful in professional life, and finally, because I love their folk music, and wanted to be able to sing those old songs. I even got to do a duet of Russian folk songs with Theodore Bikel one New Year's Eve. Here's a guy who was in a film with Humphrey Bogart and sang the Newport Folk Festival with Bob Dylan, and he invites me to do a duet of Russian folk songs with him! When I entered college, I joined the Balalaika orchestra for the music. It was the only college balalaika orchestra in the USA at the time.

It had nothing to do with loving the regime (Soviet or post Soviet) or socialism. Just like there are dude ranches in Germany, we liked the old Russian folklore. Some of their dissident authors wrote cool stuff, too. Vassily Aksyonov was so uncomfortable to the regime, he was kicked out of the Soviet Union and taught in Washington, DC for a while. I must have read his wistful story about the banalities of Soviet life, На полпути к луне (Halfway To The Moon) about twenty times through.

As for JPR, I hope that all who went there found comradeship and happiness. From I heard, it didn't turn out quite that way, but there is that old expression about people sleeping in beds they made.

[Hekate]

140. Understand completely. Some in my generation had the curiosity for languages & cultures & music

We wanted to learn what was behind the Iron Curtain, because there had to be more than we saw in the news. We were the ones who admired the dissident poets and read Solzhenitsyn’s books as they came out. We were the curious ones.

I got two out of three, seeing as I had no gift for languages, but loved all folk music no matter the language, and loved learning about culture and literature (in translation). And I do remember Theodore Bikel — good lord’n’butter man, what a life you’ve lived!

[treestar]

144. There are people who learn it just to read the poetry in the original

Like Pete Buttigieg learned a language, just to read a book in it!

I learned a little because I got curious to learn another alphabet. I had occasion to see my name in Cyrillic and it raised an interest. That part was easier than I thought it would be. A language with case endings being different was new to me.

[kentuck]

147. People's opinion of Russia has changed over the years...

Just as many opinions of America have changed over the years.

I can remember when Obama mocked Romney for saying that Russia was an enemy.

[Hekate]

151. Actually, poor Romney made a Freudian slip and said "USSR"--I think that's what got him mocked

It sure did it for me; but then, it was political campaign season & we had no mercy.

Later on as Putin tightened his grip and it came out that he thought the breakup of the USSR was the greatest catastrophe in history, I surely rethought my opinion.

[obamanut2012]

163. They are not communists or socialists, they love Russian autocrats

I know several American Communists quite well, and all of them loathe Putin. They consider him a Fascist, which he is. The JPRers are not the least bit left.

Not everyone who learns Russian does it for teh reason you state, either.

[LeftInTX]

166. I'm talking "old school"

In the 60's, 70's and 80's.

I went to HS 70-74, it was "cool" back then..

I got the impression many of that bunch on DU were my age or older and were living in the past....Some had Trotsky and Karl Marx avatars.

What they often said on DU sounded right out of an old counter-culture playbook.

Heck in 2012, when Romney called Russia our "biggest geopolitical threat" we ALL laughed. I laughed. I'm like, "What's Romney smoking?"

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2022/02/romney-putin-ukraine-invasion/622941/

https://archive.ph/2SknR#selection-511.0-525.461

“A few months ago, when you were asked what’s the biggest geopolitical threat facing America, you said Russia. Not al-Qaeda. You said Russia,” Obama told him. “And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back.”

In the days that followed, Obama’s allies repeated the talking point. Romney was ridiculed for his preoccupation with Russia and accused of having an outdated Cold War mentality that made him unqualified for the presidency. Nearly a decade later, with Russia carrying out a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, some are offering mea culpas—and wondering whether they should have paid closer attention to Romney’s warnings about Russia.

When I spoke with Romney, who now serves as a U.S. senator from Utah, on Saturday night, he didn’t seem especially interested in taking a victory lap. But he did express frustration that the past several presidential administrations have not taken the threat posed by Russia seriously enough. We also talked about how the United States should be aiding Ukraine, the Republicans who praise Putin, Donald Trump’s role in the crisis, and how Romney sees it ending.

[Raine]

121. I don't recall her, I guess I never interacted with her. nt

[Coventina]

123. Ha! I remember some of those Putin fans1

They seem to have all melted away.




Just glancing at Catherina's name fools me for a second that it's my name.

[Crunchy Frog]

129. It's really odd that I have absolutely no memory of her.

I guess I wasn't a member of her fan club.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

139. If she was a Russian/other troll/disruptor, why would she voluntarily quit DU

a year before the 2016 election? That doesn't make sense.

There is a hammer and sickle in her Twitter avatar. More than likely she was/is a communist or hardcore democratic socialist who was fed up with the Manchin/Sinema wing of the Democratic party.

That said, Putin is, and always was, an authoritarian fascist asshole, so it also doesn't make any sense for a communist or democratic socialist to defend him, unless they are pathetically deluded.

Here is her journal:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=journals&uid=216211&page=1

[kentuck]

143. Does anyone remember Carlos Jiacinto?

He was DU's first "moderate" troll.

He attempted to dismiss all progressive ideas as "unpopular" and needed to be more "moderate", like Republicans...

[Hekate]

148. Good times, good times

What a great thread.

[XanaDUer2]

152. Yes!

And I vaguely remember some sojourn he went on around the country. It was like a soap opera

[Coventina]

169. I remember him, yes. n/t

[Raine]

176. Oh yes, I remember him. I think that

he had invested in Enron and would defend them. Still I enjoyed his posts, he could be interesting and entertaining.

[NNadir]

150. This is the first I've heard of her. N/t

[Noahv]

153. Here's a thread of her directing people to RT (Russia Today), adding "I don't watch the MSM"

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=803357

[dalton99a]

177. +1

[Iterate]

157. Absolutely an operative.

She/he may have started as a true believer, but the switch had clearly flipped by early 2011. It was amusing to see her postings change to match fine detail of the Kremlin line.

The twitter examples you gave are mere PG-rated filler. The real rants were full of blood and bile, only never shared bu her with DU. Sometime between 2011 and 2014 I saw a network analysis of pro-Putin media and twitter accounts and traffic. She was rated near the top of the second tier. There's a thread somewhere that details some of this.

There were other too, of course, some obvious, some irritating. You dealt with them. The worst were more skilled and subtle:always LBN and Good Reads, guiding the narrative. Now that I think about it, the more skilled ones seldom posted in each other's threads, the way kindred spirits usually do..

[kentuck]

178. My troll antenna goes up...

...whenever any poster disagrees with a post simply for the sake of argument. Their main purpose seems to be to divide and conquer. They create dissension where none should be. They do not support the goal or the overall philosophy of the DU community.

I'm sure many others see the same thing in a few posters that are still here.

[Tanuki]

179. Back then I concluded that Catherina was a man.

I followed a link in one of Catherina's posts to an article written, to the best of my memory, by a writer/intellectual from a privileged background, using a pseudonym, born in Russia but living for some time in either the U.S. or Canada. The writer's interests and opinions seemed to dovetail with Catherina's and the brief bio indicated that the he was a big fan of the guitarist Philip Catherine. I could be completely off base, but at the time it seemed to add up.

[Noahv]

182. Pretending to be a woman is common among trolls

When we think of trolls we think about men, and I think in general women are more likable than men.
This distracts from suspicions that the troll is a troll.
"Catherina" sounds much more innocent and pleasant than "Vladimir" or "Alexei".

[Tommy Carcetti]

183. I always thought it might have been a reference to Catherina (Catherine) the Great.

Of course, she supposedly was a black woman from Latin America, so that would have made no sense.