General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUvalde Police Let Gunman In But Tried To TASER The Parents
I'm hearing and reading so much deeply upsetting information.
I know this is a small town but they were completely unprepared.
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
FelineOverlord
(3,580 posts)Wednesdays
(17,380 posts)What the hell is happening there? It looks like LEO is tackling a bystander and pinning him/her to the ground!
On edit: you can also see it near the beginning of the video in the OP.
sop
(10,192 posts)school after seeing him rush inside with his rifle. When they didnt, some parents attempted to enter themselves, but the police stopped them. A video from the scene shows one cop pinning a person to the ground while another brandishes a stun gun."
Jilly_in_VA
(9,983 posts)The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)If someone is not willing to die, a gun at their belt is no more use than a popsicle stick.
"Courage is the form all virtue must take at the sticking point."
malaise
(269,050 posts)They also prevented parents from going in to try and protect their own fucking children
No wonder Abbott and his goons rushed a fake press conference and covered all of this up.
Truth will out.
Warpy
(111,270 posts)because the shooter was dead and so were the children. Still, they needed to know that anyone alive in there needed EMTs and other first responders, not an extra crowd.
Cops who can't handle people in crisis screaming shouldn't be cops. They're not an occupying military, no matter what Nixon tried to turn them into. We are not the enemy. The guys with the guns are. Barking orders at civilians DOES NOT WORK. I don't know what it will take to get through to some of these meatheads that that's the case, and it doesn't matter if they're in NYC or Podunk, most of them are equally clueless. Well, actually the Podunk cops are a little better, since the people in crisis are their neighbors.
Another thing they need to know is that a taser is not a tranquilizer, it's a weapon, and it can kill people with heart disease.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Protect and serve. If they have no obligation to protect the public, then just who do the police serve?
multigraincracker
(32,688 posts)Why do they guns?
ekelly
(421 posts)They dont care about the kids.
catsudon
(839 posts)this is why some people say "when you need the police right now, they're just 5min-hours away"
the right buys into this to support using guns to defend themselves.
and of course, home schooling so their kids are protected.
schools should be impenetrable during school hours from strangers who have no business there.
i do not know what to do about guns... we have too many...
wnylib
(21,485 posts)That's who they serve.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)smb
(3,471 posts)KS Toronado
(17,257 posts)aocommunalpunch
(4,241 posts)Or these fuckers might set an example for the rest of the scum from their own pocketbooks. Oh, and remember the filibuster is still more important than dealing with ANY of these problems. So fucking sacred.
IronLionZion
(45,451 posts)wnylib
(21,485 posts)department. Imagine what happens if they encounter some of those angry parents in the future.
hamsterjill
(15,222 posts)In Uvalde, everyone knows everyone. If those cops are proven to have hesitated and that resulted in someones kid being killed, they had better move and change their names. This is an area where that will NOT be tolerated well.
Response to FelineOverlord (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
LeftinOH
(5,354 posts)If multiple armed law enforcement personnel **who supposedly have significant training regarding engagement with criminals** aren't willing to rush into a building to restore order, how the hell are teachers (even when armed) expected to do that?
catsudon
(839 posts)it is time for everyone to be armed to protect themselves is what the argument will be.
if the teachers are armed, they're forced to confront the shooter, while the cops outside 'choose' to wait.
i have no solutions, except maybe better security like a fort so no strangers can get in. which should be the best for k-12
TeamProg
(6,139 posts)ooooo, parents!
wnylib
(21,485 posts)meow2u3
(24,764 posts)Traildogbob
(8,748 posts)That video broke me, beat me to my knees. I have a daughter. Those screams from parents for their children. Willing to storm in and die. For that long. Makes me wanna smash Abbotts, Cruzs and that God Damned Mayors (you sick son of a bitch) face to a pulp like those helpless kids ended up. Did not say I would, just this gives me the urge with this much rage. Fuck you Texas GQP. Texas Dems, take this shit show of corruption down. Fight for your kids like those poor parents were denied to do.
Whole lotta fucking Good guys with guns there? Lets give teachers those guns right? Fuck you GQP.
KS Toronado
(17,257 posts)the cops found the time to string up yellow "CRIME SCENE DO NOT CROSS" tape before they found the
courage to go inside the school, heads need to roll in their non-Police Department.
ananda
(28,866 posts)that pervades the criminal justice system in this country.
Scream
Catherine Vincent
(34,490 posts)Those poor parents.
wnylib
(21,485 posts)who would have decked any cop who got in her way of going after her daughter. If a cop tried to taser her, her 6'4" husband would have decked the cop, grabbed the taser and turned it on him.
I am not exaggerating. My friend's daughter is her whole life and she takes shit from no one where her daughter is concerned.
I read one story about a father who did manage to reach the school, break a window, and get his kid out. Kudos to him.
llashram
(6,265 posts)non-action by the goddamn cops... Parents trying to save their kids, cops restraining them and just milling around. Goddamn!!! And I don't give a damn about their protocols. Shots fired in a school, you go in. Try to save as many innocents as possible.
wnylib
(21,485 posts)big time...
Martin68
(22,813 posts)post?
BadgerMom
(2,771 posts)3auld6phart
(1,048 posts)Hell do you suggest? It seems quite obvious the feckin plastic
hats were not going to do anything. What would you try and
do as a parent if you were there ? Yesterday I posted what
needed to be investigated . Damn, I was wrong. That shit
show really needs investigation.
hamsterjill
(15,222 posts)I grew up there and this is having a profound effect. There is definitely more to this story than what is being said at this point. Too many stories circulating with valid information.
That said
this particular video shows a school bus moving in the background. So I believe this video was taken after the shooting had ended. My understanding is that the children who were evacuated during the gunfire exchanges were taken to a funeral home that is across the street. They were not put on buses until the scene was secured.
Im not trying to argue with anyone. We dont know a whole hell of a lot and there are certainly inconsistencies. But I want to try my best to stick to facts and not go too far out there until we know more for certain.
Unwind Your Mind
(2,042 posts)Its so valuable for all of us to hear from someone who is there
hamsterjill
(15,222 posts)I want to know who the dealer is that sold the guns to the shooter. All that has been released is that it was a federally licensed dealer and a legal sale. But I want they dealer identified! Hes probably a member of the good ole boys network and being protected.
The shooter did not have a drivers license. So what did he take with him to prove he was eighteen? An ID card? A birth certificate? I would like to know.
wnylib
(21,485 posts)screaming for the cops to go inside, it does suggest that the shooting might not have been over yet. Or maybe they wanted wounded kids brought out quickly to get emergency treatment. We won't know until someone speaks to whoever took the videos about when they were taken.
I am also wondering if the cops decided to evacuate the rest of the school to protect the remaining kids in other rooms before confronting the shooter. That would make sense. If they confronted the shooter first, they risked more gunfire that could pierce walls or doors into other classrooms.
But I read the account of one of the student survivors about how Ramos was shot. This kid was in an adjoining classroom with a connecting door to where the shooter was. The kid and 4 of his friends hid under a table with a tablecloth and Ramos did not see them when he shot open the connecting door. According to this student, a cop came to the hall doorway and said if there was anyone in the room who needed help to say so. A girl said, "help" and Ramos immediately shot her. Then the cop shot Ramos. An accident by the cop? Or did he use the kid's response to flush out Ramos?
I know we don't have answers yet, but I can't forget that scared little girl thinking she was safe when the cops arrived and calling out, "help," only to die.
hamsterjill
(15,222 posts)Trust me. Everyone I know is crying off and on uncontrollably.
We dont know. We just need to be careful so that incorrect information doesnt gain steam.
wnylib
(21,485 posts)AllaN01Bear
(18,252 posts)samsingh
(17,599 posts)Buns_of_Fire
(17,181 posts)Seems like they did a dandy job of protecting the shooter while he went about his business.
I don't know the answer, and I realize that letting hysterical unarmed parents confront a madman isn't a good idea, but DAMN!
2naSalit
(86,646 posts)At the end of that first thread, they whine about the cops not having any incentives or rewards for doing their fucking job!
WTF?
Those guys are pretty well paid with shitloads of perks like guaranteed immunity and all that so, REWARDS!? Are you fucking kidding me?
The more I see these days, the more I hope I don't get a whole lot older.
Takket
(21,575 posts)I want to know why border patrol killed the shooter. Like, Im glad someone did, but why was border patrol even there and not local police? And why did border patrol go in? Did they go in because the cops were too chicken? Or werent doing anything? (OP video). Or were there local police also inside.
A lot to unpack here but bottom line for me? A good guy with a gun is NOT the answer to mass shootings.
Lasher
(27,597 posts)I just saw that on TV.
YoshidaYui
(41,831 posts)the outrage is gonna explode.
3Hotdogs
(12,390 posts)The cops not going inside themselves, is fucked up.
Bear Creek
(883 posts)The parents were distraught. Just running in would have been disastrous and added to victims. Sad as this situation was the parents should have been removed from the area. It's tough but necessary. Use of taser should be last resort.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)it would seem that this was post active shooting and in the evacuation phase. Notice the bus's coming and going and the police tape all around.
FelineOverlord
(3,580 posts)I just want to emphasize I can completely understand why they didnt want the parents inside.
They still failed to do their jobs properly.
Anyway . . .
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
not fooled
(5,801 posts)Note that it was better-trained and equipped *Federal* Border Patrol SWAT team agents who stopped the shooter. Local LE not much use, apparently, except for keeping parents in line.
My understanding is that BP was called in because they were better equipped and more capable. Makes sense in light of what we know now about the response of local LE.
sop
(10,192 posts)Nah, not so much.
rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)nowforever
(302 posts)Police encountered Ramos before he entered and as he entered school but were unable to stop him. This is an 18 year old who had the gun, he was carrying, for about a week and they exchange fire and then retreat as he slaughters the children and teachers. They walk around outside with their automatic rifles in hand yet cannot enter school to engage suspect. He locks himself in classroom and they cannot figure out how to get in the hallway near the class and take some action. They are trained in firing their .223 automatic guns along with hostage situations and yet this kid somehow outguns and out maneuvers them. I understand the risk but you need to attempt to get in that classroom. Amazingingly, for almost an hour after he locks himself in class they use a key (that was available from the start) to enter the class. They have tactical gear and body armour and yet are afraid to get near the classroom for an hour. So the police listen to kids getting slaughtered and protect themselves from harm. It demonstrates most cops are hero's on the outside and cowards on the inside. Meanwhile the teacher's confronted the gunman as he entered and then stood in front of the children and were mowed down...the cops wearing body armour and automatic weapons cowered outside while pushing parents around...pathetic.
gordianot
(15,238 posts)Tree Lady
(11,473 posts)that would be like a hostage situation at a bank and you know someone inside and cops say you can't go help them. What I don't get is the cops going in after their own kids during that time. If they can go in for theirs why not others?
Evolve Dammit
(16,741 posts)for fucking minutes, let alone an hour??
Turbineguy
(37,342 posts)Republicans. Republicans policy is to put guns in hands of psychos. Psychos kill cops as well has children.