The counter argument to socialism is the fear of dictatorship.

[Baitball Blogger]

The Right attacks us with accusations of socialism to win the war of emotions in South Florida, and Latino Americans follow at their own peril because socialism is a word that entraps the mind. They see the kind of socialism that took over private ownership back in their native countries. I would have said that the chances of that happening in America was nil to none until De Santis made his lunge for Disney, but that’s a subject for another day.

Here in America, the right uses the word socialism to trick people into supporting them as they continue to take down safety nets. And these are safety nets that are popular all over South and Central America. It makes no sense. But from previous discussions it’s obvious that we can’t take this issue head on. The idea has calcified in their brains, so I suggest we sidestep.

Socialism wasn’t the only baddie is South and Central America. Before socialist programs could even be implemented there was the emergence of military dictators. Words that would work here are autocrat and authoritarians. And that’s important because I am hearing that Latinos in South Florida like authoritarianism, which is why they tend to gravitate to Republicans. From my experiences growing up in Panama I know this is not true.

Democrats are making a mistake if they broadbrush latinos from South Florida. I think they know this, but they don’t know how to dissect this problem. And I have one suggestion. Pay attention to who you’re polling or talking to. A Cuban American will have a different perspective from any other Latino American. It’s no surprise to me that we keep coming up with the same bleak outlook for South Florida. Almost every interview I have seen with people on the street have a primarily Cuban American focus group. Que sopresa.

Some would add other countries to the mix that favor authoritarianism, but some are more recent arrivals and can still be reached. The galling example is the Venezuelans. The Parkland shootings hit their community hard, and if anyone would support gun control, they would, or should.

I think there is a lot to gain from going outside of the Cuban American community for background information on the voting population. For one thing, you will learn that there is a lot of dislike between latino communities. Which is something you should expect to find because there is a lot of racism. And where you have communities that favor both authoritarianism and are racist, you are also going to find another group of people who feel demeaned and resentful. These groups are the ones that the Democrats should be interviewing for ideas.

One last thing. All of us in Florida are currently experiencing the effects of a racist autocrat. At first, when De Santis began his crazy rein in this State, I thought it was strictly influenced by Trumpism. Now I see it as the merging of the worst of two cultures. Those of us who lived in countries who were run by dictators can see the similarities. Authoritarianism and dictatorships, one and the same.

If South Floridians fear socialism, they should fear dictators even more. Because you need the latter to implement the former. Except in America, if Republican authoritarianism prevails, they will probably end up with something far worse than socialism.

[Chainfire]

1. The fear Communism is what brought the Nazis to power.

Some folks would have us repeat the pattern. A significant proportion of our country would willing accept a dictator as long as it was a right-wing dictator. They could then rid the country of all of the "evil" elements of their society and create a white-wing paradise. The idea of King Donald I would appeal to a lot of people.

[Baitball Blogger]

3. If this is the real plan, we should force the voters to

Come out and say this is the desired effect if their vote. I am not talking about people who would support a coup. I a am talking about everyone else.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

2. "Billy, come upstairs. Lunch is ready. I made hot pockets. You love hot pockets." NT

[Baitball Blogger]

4. ?

[moondust]

5. South Florida

I've heard Ana Navarro talk about the steady flow of RW "anti-socialist/anti-communist" propaganda that permeates South Florida. I think she said it's not just at election time but ongoing.

My (very limited) understanding is that many Latinos in South Florida are descendants of Batista supporters/collaborators/whatever who fled the communist revolution in Cuba.

Question: If those parents and grandparents who fled Cuba accepted the corruption of the Batistas, did they raise their children to accept corruption as a way of life in general, now in the U.S.? That could partly explain their acceptance of and affinity for TFG's GQP.

[Baitball Blogger]

6. I don't even fully comprehend the political background of the first

Cuban Americans. But the most important point in my post is that we should not bunch up all the Latinos in South Florida into one group. The Cuban Americans are the largest group which is why everyone in America defaults to their opinions. But there are weaknesses in South Florida, largely created by this dominant force. And, yes, among their faults may be the kind of things that you point out. But I don’t have enough background to speak affirmatively.

[In It to Win It]

11. You're right about

lumping all Latino communities in South Florida.

I've lived in South Florida all of my life. I've worked in Miami for my entire career. There is a wide range of Latino communities here. Obviously there is the Cuban community but there is also a big Venezuelan community, along with Colombians, Nicaraguans, Dominicans, etc. They each have their own stories about their home countries as it relates to their views on American politics. The younger people of these groups are more liberal than their parents generally, but not all of them... and that's only of the ones motivated enough to cast a vote.

I have no stats to back this up particular part, and its based on what I've seen, but not enough of the millennials and gen Zers are liberal. The hardest part is getting the younger more liberal bloc of these groups to actually get out and vote.

I'm a millennial and most (if not all) of my friends are as well. One of my two greatest friends is from Cuba, and her family came to the USA when she was 7. She is very politically active. She is more liberal than I am. I try to convince her to run for something because I think she would be amazing!... but she refuses (for now). My other friend is 1st generation American and his mother is from Nicaragua. I got him to vote for the first time in 2020.

[Baitball Blogger]

13. Glad to know you.

The millennials are a big part of the puzzle. I have one nephew In Miami who is gay and very aware and active. Another nephew who is Gay lives in Texas, who went the other way. Not sure why. The only thing that makes sense is that his parents in Panama are in the 1% and have kept him in a high standard of life. Kind hearted and would share his good life with others, but his head is turned around with the fear that America will turn socialist. I guess the boy is protecting the golden goose,

[SKKY]

7. I was watching Paola Ramos' special on CNN last night...

Last edited Thu Jun 2, 2022, 01:27 PM - Edit history (1)

...and it's obvious the right has done a masterful job of painting anything Democrats do as classic South American socialism. There is a huge sector of the Latino population who will never, ever vote Democratic. We need to go find the other group.

[Baitball Blogger]

9. Paola was brilliant.

I hope she finds another focus group besides Cuban Americans.

Btw way, I use the term “Hispanic” when I am talking about my experiences in the last century. Today’s term for Central and South Americans is Latinos.

[SKKY]

16. Meh.

I wasn't aware the term "Hispanic" had somehow become a pejorative. So, I asked my wife who is from Spain, and she wasn't aware either. I asked several of her family members, obviously all from Spain, and they hadn't received the memo either. So, I asked our neighbors, who immigrated from Mexico and Chile respectively. They heard something about a memo but thought it was silly and didn't read the whole thing. All of this was after I looked up the word "Hispanic" dictionary.com and, which informed me of the below:

Hispanic is an adjective that generally means “relating to Spanish-speaking Latin America” or to “people of Spanish-speaking descent.” It can also be used as a noun when referring to a US resident who is “of Spanish or Spanish-speaking Latin-American descent.”

In popular use, Hispanic can generally be used to describe anyone from (or descended from) Spanish-speaking parts of Latin America, the Caribbean, or Spain itself. The word Hispanic can both refer to Spanish-speakers as well as people who don’t speak Spanish but still come from Spanish-speaking countries. For one example, Mexican-Americans living in the US can be described as Hispanics, no matter what language they speak.


[link:https://www.dictionary.com/e/hispanic-vs-latino/|

[Baitball Blogger]

18. Well, I grew up in a Central American country and I assure you

That no one walked around referring to themselves as Hispanicos. But remarkably all of them would have used the term Latinos. Actually, with a small “l”. At least in Panama they did not capitalize these nouns.

On the other hand, the people who considered themselves direct descendants from Spain, as your wife, would have referred to themselves as Hispanola or de Hispana with the wiggler above the “n”.

My father, who was Mexican American, would have referred to himself as a Chicano. A perjorative to some but not to him. And although some people might make the argument that Mexicans can be part of the Latino culture, I have always had trouble applying “Latinos” to them because Mexican Americans have so many other choices that they would use first,

In sum, if you’re talking to a person from Central or South America (but not Mexico) I suggest you refer to them as Latinos. That’s how they refer to themselves in their native tongue. If you use Hispanic, you will peg yourself as a gringo. And , look up gringo for the bonus round. It does not mean a white person from a North America. It means ANYONE from North America, including me. Oh, and Britain too.

[brush]

8. They'll end up with fascism, the opposite of socialism.

republicans advertise heavily on Spanish language radio and TV. We Democrats should do the same.

[Baitball Blogger]

10. Why did this take so long?

[brush]

12. Good question. Some IMO don't differentiate between the two...

like what happens with the maga crowd, and before that with the anti-Obama, low-info crowd whose rally signs would call him a socialist, commie and fascist all together. It's crazy. We're not talking about people well versed in political/economic systems.

Thanks for the good info in your OP on the political backgrounds and differences in the Florida Latino community—the mostly conservative Cubans whose grandparents/parents may have been Batista supporters who left Cuba because of the revolution there vs Latinos from other countries in Latin and South America.

It's complicated and Dems need to get up to speed and figure out the best way to gain support in the community.

[Baitball Blogger]

14. You know, I wonder how much the bad

Side of the CIA had to do with installing a right wing propaganda machine in Latin America? This sounds like something they would have done.

[brush]

15. For sure. They've installed right-wing dictators historically as well.

[anarch]

17. why do you think you'd need a dictator to implement socialism?

that doesn't make any sense to me.