While the AR10 and AR15 are nearly identical weapons, the AR15 gets all the news

[Kaleva]

The AR10 could be considered the big brother of the AR15, firing heavier and more powerful rounds. One could go hunting bigger game with an AR10. Something you wouldn't do with an AR15.

One can buy and fit high capacity magazines for an AR10 just like one can for an AR15.

However, despite being more powerful then an AR15 and they both are pretty much mechanically the same, AR10s are rarely used in mass shootings. There's some reasons for this.

One is the AR10 is heavier and a little longer

Another reason is that the rounds are heavier. A fully loaded 30 round mag for an AR10 weighs more then a 30 round mag for an AR15.

The AR10 has greater recoil because it fires a more powerful round.

The AR15, being lighter, shorter and firing a mid-powered round making it more manageable when rapid firing is the gun of choice for mass shooters.

The AR10 is better suited for long range shooting. Like for actual hunting.

Should the AR10, being mechanically very similar to the AR15, be considered an assault weapon and be banned just like the AR15 even though the AR10 is very rarely used by mass shooters?

[SoonerPride]

1. Yes.

It’s not an assault weapon because it’s popular with psychopaths but because of how it functions.

It too should be banned.

Because if you ban the AR15 but not the AR10 guess which assault rifle would now be the favorite of mass murderers?

[PTWB]

2. The Mini-14?

[SYFROYH]

4. An AR15 with a different grip?

Nonpistol style.

[Timewas]

9. Maybe

PSA versions...... AR15 a shorter barrel, easier to conceal. Same functions..

[Zeitghost]

16. Which function

Are you referring to?

[Kaleva]

22. How does a semi automatic shotgun function differently then a AR-10?

Should we ban the shotguns too?

[bluedigger]

3. It would probably come down to the profit margins.

That should be the determining factor in any logical examination of the problem, should it not?

[Sandy Becker]

5. The AR15 has the "distinction" of being the most popular weapon of that general type.

There are literally tens of millions of them in private hands.

[bluesbassman]

6. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Let me ask you a question: If it only “rarely kills a child” in a mass shooting, is that acceptable to you?

[Kaleva]

21. Semiauto shotguns are rarely used by mass shooters

There is very little talk about banning them.

[NickB79]

7. What's interesting is that the military is replacing the M-16/M-4 with an AR-10 variant

The M-5 made by Sig Sauer will be replacing the M-4. It fires a much more powerful round (6.8x51) vs the 5.56x45. The 5.56mm can no longer reliably penetrate body armor worn by Russian and Chinese soldiers.

[slightlv]

8. Distinction without much difference

they would just adapt.

[kacekwl]

10. Yes.

Yes.

[msongs]

11. can it be used to hunt racoons in the chicken hut and kids in a school? yes it can nt

[bottomofthehill]

12. Maybe because thousands of AR-10' were made but millions or AR 15's were

They should both be banned they are weapons of war

[Kaleva]

27. One can buy an AR 10 as easily as one can buy an AR15

[Lithos]

13. What about banning based on the type of bullet it is designed to use?

Not sure that helps though, but trying to think through a different type of classification.

[Zeitghost]

15. Then you have to be prepared to ban hunting rifles

Because they are far more powerful than most AR or AK variants. And any attempt to go after hunting rifles is a non-starter in today's political climate.

[Recursion]

17. Which leaves us with the absurdity of the AWB

Under which the gun used at Sandy Hook was legal, unless it had a bayonet lug.

What we should do is ban (or rather recategorize under the NFA) all semi-automatic weapons that accept a detachable magazine. This is, at least as far as I can tell, what people *think* the AWB does, even though it doesn't. The AWB says that semi-automatic weapons that accept a detachable magazine can't have bayonet lugs or grips at more than 70 degrees from the body.

The reason we politically can't ban all semi-automatic weapons that accept a detachable magazine is that some Republican will hold up a Remington 742 Woodmaster, a.k.a. "Grampa's old hunting rifle", and talk about how the Godless Democrats are coming for Grampa's gun. But, really, it can shoot just as quickly and just as many rounds as an AR-15 can, so I can't honestly think of a reason not to ban it. It's just a political non-starter.

[Zeitghost]

18. See the California AWB

And how easily detachable magazines became "fixed", first with a bullet button and then when those were banned, with various other devices.

[sir pball]

29. In all seriousness, why not NFA *all* firearms with "detachable ammunition feeding devices"?

I can shoot my Marlin 1895 lever-action just about as fast as a yutz can fire an AR (assuming the yutz isn't just spraying bullets into the ceiling, that is) - with instantly replaceable magazines/"clips" it would be even more devastating on the receiving end than an AR.

And then there's the guys making 100% non-assault-weapon 50-state legal pump-action ARs…or the guys making UK-legal lever-action ARs! The quick reloads are the truly devastating feature; even a full-auto isn't much of a threat if it's limited to 3-5 rounds before you gotta stuff the shells in one by one.

[Kaleva]

24. I proposed a way to identify an assault weapon by the cartridge it fired

Semiautos that fire high power rounds commonly used for hunting and rimfire rounds would fall outside this classification..

Maybe later today , I'll post a link to that for you to look at.

[Joenobody]

32. So they would just start selling more

ARs chambered to 30.06 or .308?

[Kaleva]

42. Guns that fire those calibers aren't used often, hardly at all, by mass shooters

[Zeitghost]

38. Ban certain calibers

And you would have a dozen new calibers on the market tomorrow.

[Kaleva]

43. My proposal covers a range.

If the new caliber falls within that range, then the gun chambered to fire it would be classified as an assault weapon.

"One is often asked to define "assault weapon". Here's my definition.
Last edited Sun Jan 6, 2013, 05:09 PM - Edit history (2)

Any semi-automatic weapon that fires a rimless, semi-rimmed, or rebated rim centerfire cartridge that has a bullet of less then 6.5mm in diameter or a metal based case length of less then 50.8mm or caseless ammunition of any dimension or any rimless, semi-rimmedd or rebated Polymer-cased centerfire cartridge of any dimension.

The appearance of the gun has nothing to do with the above definition. The gun could look like a hunting rifle or it could look like something out of a Hollywood war movie. The gun could have a bayonet lug, grenade launcher, flash suppressor, pistol grip or folding stock and it might not be an assault weapon as defined by above. Or it could. It all depends on the action of the gun and the cartridge it fires.

Such a definition keeps things simple. All one has to do is first determine if the gun is a semi-automatic, see if the cartridge it is loaded with is a centerfire round and then measure the cartridge. No fuss. No muss.

If one has an issue with including semi-automatic handguns in the above, then one could refine it further by saying an assault weapon is a semi-automatic firearm that has a barrel length of 16" or longer and fires a rimless, semi-rimmed, or rebated rim centerfire cartridge that has a bullet of less then 6.5mm in diameter or a case length of less then 50.8mm.

A semi-automatic, or self-loading, firearm is a weapon that performs all steps necessary to prepare the weapon to fire again after firing—assuming cartridges remain in the weapon's feed device or magazine.

A centerfire cartridge is a cartridge with a primer located in the center of the cartridge case head.

"The rimmed cartridge is the oldest of the types and has a rim that is significantly larger in diameter than the base of the cartridge. "

"On a rimless case, the rim is the same diameter as the base of the case; it is known as an extractor groove."

"On a semi-rimmed case the rim projects slightly beyond the base of the case, though not as much as a rimmed cartridge."

"Rebated rim cartridges have a rim that is significantly smaller in diameter than the base of the case, serving only for extraction."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_%28firearms%29

Rimmed cartridges do not have an extractor groove.

According to the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI), a cartridge is "a single round of ammunition consisting of the case, primer and propellant with or without one or more projectiles." Only the projectile portion is the bullet.

The case length of a 7.62x39mm cartridge is about 38.7mm



Polymer-cased ammunition (or PCA) is the concept applied to define the alternative to use polymer-based casings instead of metal-based (brass, aluminium or steel mainly) in the manufacturing of ammunition.

Caseless ammunition is a type of small arms ammunition that eliminates the cartridge case that typically holds the primer, propellant, and projectile together as a unit."

[hunter]

14. It's becoming a generic term like Xerox or Kleenex. That's all.

Any "military style" gun to people who don't care about the distinctions, which is most people.

[asa4ever]

19. I received training with the M-14 in the army. I fired expert, but only by 2 targets over the 2 days

It is heavier than the AR-15 but I like it for hunting. I don't use a scope and have the sights set at 250 yards.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

28. My first tour in Vietnam,

I carried the M-14, it was heavier, couldn't carry quite as much ammo but it was reliable with a bigger punch as opposed to the first generation M-16A1, which I carried on my second tour, it was a POS, I would've rather had my M-14 back.

[pecosbob]

20. Just wait until the Army's new service rifle becomes the most popular gun in America

All the gun-worshipers will be clamoring for the Army's new XM5 service rifle. Chambered in 6.8 mm, the rounds exit the barrel with almost twice the kinetic energy of the 5.56mm. The SIG Sauer Spear, the civilian variant is available now for around $8,000.00.

[crickets]

30. Perhaps the kinetic energy of the round might be the benchmark

for which weapons are to be barred from sale or use by anyone not actively serving in the military.

[Zeitghost]

39. That would ban just about every hunting round

for anything bigger than a squirrel.

[rownesheck]

23. When the people

have proven they aren't mature enough to make smart decisions, then we need to take some shit away. Probably not a popular opinion, but it's mine. Hell, I would even ban vehicles that get very low mpg (hummers) and also those stupid loud mufflers that morons "roll coal" with.

Or, if banning those weapons isn't feasible, then it needs to be mind bendingly difficult for anyone to obtain them. They would need to take classes on how to use them and would need to be re-trained every 6 months. They need to register them like a car or boat, and they would need to attend meetings with victims of gun violence every 6 months in order to hear their stories.

And while I'm at it, anyone who wants these weapons needs to be signed up with the military, regardless of age. When we decide to go attack a nation "to protect our interests", they get to be on the front lines.

I've had shit taken from me and I've learned to deal with it, although I'm still not happy about it. Does anyone remember video rental stores? Yes, I loved going to an actual building and perusing the shelves looking for a movie I hadn't seen, or hadn't seen in a while. It was awesome, but now they're gone. I've had to evolve even though I don't like it.

[Kaleva]

26. I have a revolver but it's not to protect property.

If someone breaks into the home at night and starts taking stuff, I won't go downstairs to confront them. My wife and I will stay in our bedroom with the bedroom door locked. The door is reinforced and has a deadbolt. We'll call the police. If the home invader tries to kick in the bedroom door despite being warned I am armed and the police have been called, then I'll use the gun.

[48656c6c6f20]

25. Better safe than being sorry about dead children ban all gunz.

Yes shotguns too. Tired of the world using gunz to solve their problems. And fuck GunMurka

[Kaleva]

31. Reading new threads and still no one has an issue with AR-10s

Just talk about AR-15s

[SoonerPride]

34. What the fuck is this shit?

I have an issue with ALL GODDAMNED ASSAULT WEAPONS.

BAN ALL THOSE FUCKING THINGS.

FULL STOP.

[Kaleva]

35. Threads and posts specifically mention the AR-15

Here are some examples of recent OPs:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216758175

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216757786

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216756472

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216756045

I've been looking but can't find any posts about the more powerful AR-10.

As for mass shootings, the one instance that I found, so far, I'm still looking for other cases, where AR-10s were used was the Las Vegas shooting but most of the guns he had were AR-15 style guns and he made most of his shots from the AR-15s.

"With frequent help from hotel bellmen, he brought five suitcases to his room on September 25, seven on the 26th, two on the 28th, six on the 30th, and two on October 1.[15][9][8] His arsenal of weapons, associated equipment and ammunition included fourteen AR-15 rifles (some of which were equipped with bump stocks[d] and twelve of which had 100-round magazines), eight AR-10-type rifles, a bolt-action rifle, and a revolver.[16] On September 30, he placed "Do not disturb" signs on the doors of both rooms.[15]"

"The AR-10 rifles were equipped with various telescopic sights and mounted on bipods.[78][83][84] Paddock was found to have fired a total of 1,058 rounds from fifteen of the firearms: 1,049 from twelve AR-15-style rifles, eight from two AR-10-style rifles, and the round used to kill himself from the Smith & Wesson revolver.[27]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting#Weaponry

The apparent fact that mass shooters don't use high powered rifles like the AR-10 is probably the reason why no one here, that I have ever been able to find, has specifically called for them to be banned. A number of hunters like them because they, the AR-10s, are chambered to fire rounds used to hunt game such as deer, elk, big horn sheep and such.

[Kaleva]

37. They aren't the preferred choice for home defense either.

For home defense, the more popular choice is the AR-15 for those who want a rifle for that purpose.

[SYFROYH]

36. AR10 guys are really weird.

[Zeitghost]

40. Not as weird

As 10mm guys.

[SYFROYH]

41. True that. Yellow-tinted shades clique.

[Fla_Democrat]

44. Ahem