What do you call a high school with one door?

[BlueIdaho]

A fire trap. But that’s just what a straight faced Cruz proposed yesterday. Republicans are not serious leaders with serious plans - they are buffoons playing to undereducated gun humpers.

[demtenjeep]

1. Triangle shirtwaist fire

But not being from America Raphael wouldn’t know that

[Diamond_Dog]

11. Republicans will now ban

teachers from mentioning the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory in history class.

[Otto_Harper]

19. Or, the Rhodes Opera House Fire (1908)

It changed fire laws for this country for the next century.

[Backseat Driver]

50. That same year: the Collinwood Fire (Lakeview Elementary- March 4, 1908)

Killed 172 students and 2 teachers; this fire resulted in building code changes. There are many sites on browsers commemorating/memorializing this tragic fire. As a kid, I recall visiting the memorial garden built over the original school site with my dad who had come to live nearby after 1930 and graduated from Collinwood High School--must have made an impression.

https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/394

[Demovictory9]

2. the devil flew off with Ted's soul long time ago

[Ray Bruns]

22. I'm pretty sure that was the NRA

[radical noodle]

44. Same thing

[jmbar2]

3. A bottleneck, followed by a stampede

making it easier for the killer to kill more people.

Ted just ain't very smart.

[Generic Brad]

65. Plus a second shooter has easy targets

Cruz’s idea would be Columbine on meth and steroids.

[AngryOldDem]

4. A death trap.

Also against fire code.

Ted Cruz is a moron.

[markie]

5. exactly!

all building codes require a second means of egress.... Republicans are frickin' idiots



https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-4-accessible-means-of-egress/

[AllyCat]

6. How does one limit doors at a funeral?

[lostnfound]

68. A link to yesterday's funeral shooting for those who don't know

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142925111

[njhoneybadger]

7. Change the subject, make it about doors.

Sad thing is I have relatives parroting the same shit.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

8. Pretty sure he meant 'one entrance'

Very possible to have one entrance but also a bunch of other doors that open from the inside only.

You've seen 'emergency exits' before, right? They usually have signs that say what they are, and that an alarm will sound if door is opened, etc?

[Effete Snob]

12. That's stil ridiculous

Elementary schools have rotating collections of children outside for recess for much of the day. If a shooter opens fire on the playground, the children are trapped by the one entrance bottleneck.

Likewise high schools conduct outdoor gym classes all day long.

None of these people knows how a school works.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

14. So you put unscalable fencing up around the whole school

and that fence has one, monitored, guarded entrance.

I'm not saying I'm a fan of the idea, just that it's possible.

[ret5hd]

16. Get them acclimated to their future:

[MarcA]

73. +1000 n/t

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

84. My high school looked nothing like that, ...

... but it sure felt that way at times.

"Students, take out a pencil and complete this pop quiz. Young Master Bozo, please stop sniffing the quiz handout and start answering the questions. Wait, here's an announcement from the office: President Kennedy has been shot in Dallas. Ok, you have five minutes to complete the quiz, starting now."

[UpInArms]

17. A metal bulletproof fence?

Smh

[Effete Snob]

18. And a moat with sharks

with laser beams attached to their heads.

Leaving no escape routes or alternative entrances for rescuers.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

29. Again, you could have emergency exits in the fence

Look I'm not saying I like it, nor that it's the 'best answer' but the real best answer is not politically possible, and will never happen.

Meanwhile, kids are dying at school.

BTW, it'd also be entirely possible to have an 'emergency responders' entrance method.

You know how cops and fire trucks can cause the traffic lights to change as they approach, to let them through faster?

You can use that same tech for opening a gate on a fence.

[Effete Snob]

37. I did not realize you were serious

The notion of high bulletproof walls around every school is utterly bizarre.

Then we do shopping centers?

[Hugh_Lebowski]

47. I'm serious that it's possible to do

Everyone's throwing up (imho kinda bullshit) reasons that suggest there's no way this type of solution could help save kids ... now downthread someone else is suggesting it can't be done because of money woes of schools.

Now you're putting forth an argument that is essentially saying 'why should we do that with schools, and not shopping centers?' I get your point, but it's not really a strong argument AGAINST fortifying our schools, is it?

Look, I'm merely arguing that each of these concerns in this thread being raised ... could be mitigated. It's also politically practical, as opposed to the optimal solution ... which would be taking everyone's guns away.

I want guns out of the hands of unstable killers as well, but who knows if/when that'll happen? Fortifying schools, as distasteful as it is ... could definitely help in the meantime.

Even though shitbird Ted Cruz is proposing it, and we all hate him.

[patphil]

60. Sort of like what they have around prisons. Maybe it could have a few gun towers also.

[MarcA]

75. Just like the walls and guarded entries in Afghanistan

to protect the citizens from the bad guys. No problems there.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

85. And after that we do churches.

Then hospitals.

On the up side, think of all the jobs that will be created.

[ck4829]

39. "not politically possible" - That means we've consented to it not being possible

I don't consent to this.

[IronLionZion]

24. They can just shoot through the fence

I'd feel better if they didn't have guns. Then they can just punch the fence or stab it or a run truck into it. All of which is better than shooting guns.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

31. Yes, that would be the optimal answer, no more guns

But that ain't happening anytime soon (if ever) and kids are dying now.

How many times have mass shootings of children at school happened by a shooter doing his deed through a fence? Plenty of schools with fences around them today.

Also, you do know there are types of fences (and walls) that would not allow someone to shoot through them, right?

[IronLionZion]

34. Who's going to pay for all that?

there are schools all over America that are struggling to manage basic funding from local tax revenue.

[thesquanderer]

45. Republicans would pay for as much school security as necessary to keep the NRA happy. n/t

[IronLionZion]

46. I doubt they would pay for anything

they talk about mental health treatment but won't pay for that either. They are the tax cut and privatization party. So if anything, they would cut funding for public schools even more since their kids go to private schools.

[MarcA]

74. They would loot the Public School Funds for their cronies,

close public schools and have everyone be on their own for education.

[inthewind21]

51. OK

Who's going to pay for all that? The same people who voted against funding already? But hey, let's trumpet the asinine logic and instead of actually addressing the problem, let's just make Alcatraz an elementary school! Better yet, just send your kids there at birth so they get accustomed to it from the beginning.

[lindysalsagal]

21. I don't know why everyone forgets schools are full of ground-level windows

If I wanted in, I'd shoot out one and jump right in. It's all just talk.

[Effete Snob]

35. Yes, but you don't know where the land mines are buried

With a minefield around the school, and every student and staff member having memorized the map, you won't make it near the windows.

Also, pits with tigers in them and tree branches hiding the tops.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

38. Fences and/or walls around the whole school would largely obviate that entrance method

As I've said upthread, I'm not saying I LIKE this 'solution', but at least it's politically and physically practical.

[rsdsharp]

77. And how long is it going to take a large high school to funnel 1500-2000 students

through one door? Especially when they’ll probably want to up the ante by adding a metal detector and back pack searches at the choke point.

[dsc]

41. My school has several buildings with multiple doors

which is common for my region (south) and schools built in this era (late 1960's and 1970's). We have a west wing building with 12 classrooms (our entire English department, 2 science teachers, 3 math teachers). We have a main building with about 40 classrooms (5 math teachers, 3 science teachers, entire social studies department, 2 foreign language teachers, many CTE teachers, 2 ROTC teachers, ESL teacher, remote class teacher, main office, nurse, social worker, clinic), a gym complex with gym and arts rooms, a carpentry building, and an auto work buiding, plus a cafeteria. The kids have to travel between buildings. The lay out is large, we have two parking lots, front on a fairly major road. Just what should we be doing?

[Hugh_Lebowski]

53. You fence around all the buildings?

Or you build a new school, that can be better secured?

It's not like there aren't 'ways' is all I'm saying.

[dsc]

56. And the money for this?

Building a new school will be very expensive to say the least. It should also be noted that a single entrance for 900 students would make mornings much slower.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

62. The House could write a bill that would fund this, federally

And then make the PuQ's go on record voting against it, showing what a bunch of lying asses they are.

Or maybe they can be pressured into going along with it.

Give every school $500K for fencing/walls, cost will be in the 10's of Billions nation-wide, but we've funded plenty of similar projects, as a society, over the years.

Probably could use technology to mitigate the traffic jam. Parents (and school buses) could have something similar to FastTrak that lets them into the lot quickly and automatically.

[MarcA]

76. Drive-by shooter types would love a crowded single entrance

wall/fence around a school. Guess we could do like they do in DC and have a vehicle free zone around the school. More dealing with the effect instead of the cause.

[wryter2000]

69. He said door

Sounds like the door the shooter went through was an emergency exit. Folks here can correct me, but I believe schools currently have only one entrance because of past shootings and current security.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

70. I understand he said door, hence my original verbiage

Not sure on the question of how this particular shooter 'got in', but it should NOT be possible for that to happen in the vast majority of cases (i.e. it's not like a custodian at the school who's the perp).

[wryter2000]

72. You're correct

However, in this case, the lock on the door failed, so it can happen.

Your solution--one entrance with lots of emergency exits--could work, but that's not what Cruz was proposing.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

86. I'm going to guess that fire codes would not allow only one entrance.

You might want to read about the Station Nightclub fire that occurred on February 20, 2003. 100 people died, mainly because exits had been blocked. Also, anyone who did not get out in the first 90 seconds was doomed. That's how quickly the fire became deadly.

One huge problem I have with the way fires are presented on TV or in movies is that there's somehow plenty of time to get out. Or to go back in and rescue something. The reality is, there is essentially no time.

[ProfessorGAC]

88. Code In Illinois Specifies...

...the number of exits based on capacity.
I want to say they need one exit per 120 people, PLUS the primary exit/entrance. (Pretty sure about that 120.)
A place with a fire marshal capacity of 200 would need 3 exits.
Schools may be even stricter, I'm not sure.
And, any business open to the public needs a second door, no matter the capacity.
I'm also pretty sure that the code specifies that the multiple exits can't be on the same wall. That makes sense. If there were a fire at the front, there'd be no way out without going through the fire.
One more example to add to your Station incident was Cocoanut Grove in 1942. Over capacity crowd & exit doors chained shut. Only one way out and some of the front doors opened inward. 492 people died. The second deadliest fire event in US history. (Iroquois Theater here in Illinois was the worst.)

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

89. Thank you for the information on Illinois code.

Probably most fire codes are similar.

[ProfessorGAC]

91. I'd Think That Would Be The Case

I doubt Illinois is all that different in this regard.
My numbers might be off plus/minus, but I know I have the basic principles down.
There were 2 clubs we played where we had to do an odd stacking of the PA, because code says there has to be 5' of walkway (width) to an emergency exit. The stage was so far left of center, we set 3/4ths of the system on one side & a quarter on the other side, otherwise we'd create only a 3 foot escape route.
Ruined the stereo sound. Our sound guy hated going there, but the money was really good.

[barbaraann]

9. Wouldn't Cruz's home be safer with just one door? n/t

[Effete Snob]

13. Sealed. With him inside.

[global1]

27. And No Doors!!!...nt

[2naSalit]

64. Like a prison cell?

[IronLionZion]

25. Locked from the outside

just leave him in there for house arrest

[Stuart G]

10. "Sarcasm"...I must take issue...The BAA..which I am a member of...("Buffoon Association of America")

Last edited Fri Jun 3, 2022, 09:54 AM - Edit history (1)

..has decided in a special meeting called to discuss this matter, That Ted Cruz is much "TOO STUPID AND IGNORANT"
to be a member of our group...

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ted Cruz obviously belongs in another group...."Extremely Idiotic Goons of America" ..........and we have no
connections with them. ...opps time to hide again for Stuart G....

[Ray Bruns]

28. Shouldn't that be BAA ("Buffoon Association of America")

[Stuart G]

30. You are totally correct change will be made to BAA

[CTyankee]

66. Is that why he is grossly ugly? Even with other repukes contending for ugliest republican, he wins

hands down.

[Wounded Bear]

15. A kill house...nt

[Stuart G]

20. Cruz is ....STUPID.. (simple fact) ...(ain't complicated is it?)

[Emile]

23. Cruz blaming everybody and everything but the gun.

Nothing new here!

[Stuart G]

33. OF COURSE ...everybody & everything but the ....GUN...why? because.....

for Cruz the stupid looze, who is a booze. and a buffoon too.....and 4 Cruz the gun is fun!!

[RainCaster]

26. Cruz is Ooze. Bought & paid for by the NRA

[LetMyPeopleVote]

32. Carnival Cruz is an idiot

His children attend a very expensive private school and each building at that school has multiple doors

[Stuart G]

36. I LIKE THAT ONE "Carnival Cruz" ...thank you for reminding me of it...

[elias7]

40. There are 131,000 K-12 schools in the US, with 0.7% having shootings in past 10 yrs

You can try to modify entry/exits with metal detectors and armed guards and spend trillions of dollars. Or, we could ban access to weapons of war.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

59. What exactly would banning access to weapons of war look like to you, practically-speaking?

How does that work? You making it illegal to OWN one? Or just to BUY one going forward?

If the former, there's ZERO chance the government wouldn't have to do a buyback of 10's of millions of weapons from people who bought them legally. How much you think THAT would cost to implement the system, AND pay the public off? Many of these guns went for $1000+. If there's 50M of them, at $1000 a pop ... that's $50B costs just for the buyback alone.

And if the latter, how does that solve the problem created by the fact that there are already 10's of millions of them in the hands of the public?

Or the fact that a number of mass shootings have been carried out by people using handguns and types of long guns that aren't normally considered 'war weapons'?

It wouldn't cost 'trillions' btw. Could give every school a security grant of $500,000 (which should go a very long way) for a total of $65.5B. Not chump change, but well under even 1 trillion, let alone trillions.

[keithbvadu2]

42. Would Rafael approve Congress having only one door on Jan 6?

Would Rafael approve Congress having only one door on Jan 6?

[BidenRocks]

43. Mexico

Due to high crime, so many buildings are built behind walls with armed guards.

So much for that little house on the prairie image.

[eleny]

48. A coffin

[rurallib]

49. My aunt taught at Our Lady of Angels in Chicago when it burned killing nearly 100

Just before Christmas of 1958 (Dec. 1, 1958). She was elderly and had ended her day at noon. She was in the convent when the fire took place.

I was thinking they had doors locked, but upon reading about it again, I see that students were trapped due to the fire which totally cut off egress routes.

Anyway, when I first heard of Cruz's insane comment the first thing I thought of was my aunt's school and all this kids trapped in that burning building.

[mwooldri]

52. I got a different word. Jail. NT

[LiberatedUSA]

54. A code violation. N/t

[hlthe2b]

55. Simplified, a "DEATH TRAP" whether fire, tornado, bomb threat, carbon monoxide scare, or gun

incident. When they harden the windows too to make them less breakable and bulletproof, we may as well just give the kids an ampule of cyanide to wear around their neck.

I am not being facetious. Just disgusted at the ignorance and callousness.

[CaptainTruth]

57. The International Code Council would like a word...

[Warpy]

58. Tell TED if there's a fire, a GUN might get damaged

He'll forget that idea fast.

[Snackshack]

61. 1,000,000+ Americans dead...

The GOP recently purposely lied about the deadly nature of a virus. Did all it could to misinform, distract or otherwise interfere/confuse the response to this pandemic. The result of this is the death of over 1 Million Americans.

How > 1 million Americans can die and not 1 person be put in jail shows just how fucked up our justice system and how depraved the GOP is.

This new round of the GOP giving America the 🖕on any meaning gun legislation after another 19 children were executed should surprise no one.

[LiberalBrooke]

63. A prison.

[dsharp88]

67. Couldn't a gunman simply BREAK A WINDOW TO ENTER???

What's a little broken glass on the floor considering all the blood he's about to spill?

This has to make Ted Cruz' all-time 10 dumbest things he's ever said.

[malaise]

71. A fire hazard? N/T

[Dan]

78. Kill zone.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

79. I call it non-existent in the USA. Building and fire codes do not allow.

If one was found - private or public - any fire marshal would instantly shut it down.

In addition, any such place would not be insurable.

KY

[czarjak]

80. Picky, picky, picky!

[Dukkha]

81. Cruz is school on Saturday, no class!

[Darkstar53142]

82. The Columbine shooters had pipe bombs...

...which would have made short work of any locked doors or windows.

[eppur_se_muova]

83. A violation of fire safety codes. Everyone knows this except Ted Cruz. nt

[calimary]

87. All I can say is No Shit!!!

[Rhiannon12866]

90. This discussion brought me back to a fire drill when I was in high school

The fire alarm rang when my friend and I were in our homeroom, pretty far from the main entrance - so we opened and jumped out the window...

[Blue Owl]

92. Save for Gohmert, MTG, or Boebert... only Ted Fucking Cruz could come up with something this stupid

[Beartracks]

93. They have serious plans: They seriously plan to do nothing, except...

...push to relax gun laws and continue to fellate the gun lobby.

========

[House of Roberts]

94. Cruzcatraz.

😳