1 in 7 older Americans rely on Social Security for more than 90% of their income.

[Uncle Joe]

Link to tweet

[DURHAM D]

1. Is Bernie aware that for the most part

you get what you put in?

[spooky3]

3. And lower income people tend to get more than they and their employers put in. Nt

[TheRealNorth]

6. Well that may be true at an individual level....

At the population level, higher-income Americans collect more SS then they put in because they are on average are in better health and therefore live longer.

[spooky3]

7. But they put in more as well. The SS formula is designed to

Provide relatively more for lower income people as a safety net.

[TheRealNorth]

48. Wealthy people don't put that much more in...

Because SSI is only collected up to $140,000 of income.

[spooky3]

50. But that's not the point of the prior posts. The point is that

The SS formula is designed to provide a minimum benefit as a safety net and that in proportion to the $ contributed, it is better than for higher income people.

[Triloon]

17. So what.

So low income workers work their lives away at essential jobs supporting the economy for sub-par pay (first slap), and then get that pay reduced further from SS deductions (second slap), and then -if they survive- they are cemented in to an unalterable below poverty level income for the rest of their lives? (third slap) You got a fourth slap for the impoverished elderly? Maybe they should just shut up about it?
It is simply not economically possible for everyone to be a high wage worker, but damn the rest of them anyway?
I'll give you a cool 100 bucks if you can live without complaint on my paltry SS income for a year.... It doesn't even cover rent, ya know?

[jimfields33]

19. It is designed not to be welfare.

We need to keep it as is or it will go away. Majority make back way more then contributed. This is a great system. Let’s not ruin it.

[Triloon]

21. lol

[spooky3]

25. My posts had nothing to do with what SHOULD be, but

Rather with how SS actually operates.

[Backseat Driver]

29. DH's just covers rent; mine just covers cell phones and food.

We could move, but most nice places, most smaller, cost just as much as we now pay - then moving expenses!!! Ugh. At 74 he needs to work FT hours to pay for supplemental Medicare policies; gasoline, electric, TV entertainment, and mandatory insurances. There's a bit left over for pet bills and miscellaneous household expenses. clothing, and gifts, one expense at a time not to exceed a C-note. My 2002 car has been laid up in the garage for two years. Little value left; even less if it doesn't run. When one must budget on a once-a-month payday of certain day but various DATE, it's tough to use autopay or determine how to use a healthy shopping list efficiently. I subscribe for TP and laundry soap and use dryer balls. We feel very lucky to have escaped CoVid and variants. We don't drive around much and plan our close neighborhood use of the old used paid-off Jeep! Fairly do-able but really boring except for really anxiety-producing current events.

I got plenty of nothin'; nothin's plenty for me. Got my gal (pet); got my song; Heaven the whole day long?

Not even close!

[Uncle Joe]

10. I believe Bernie is aware that insofar as our society

is concerned, for the most part, our measurements of what's "put in" is woefully lacking from the most powerful and wealthiest in our nation; this in turn has a fundamental adverse effect against anything someone of more modest means can afford to put into social security during their working lifetimes.

[CrispyQ]

2. Only 1 in 7?

That surprises me.

[LonePirate]

9. Indeed. That number seems far too low. I would have guessed at least 1 in 2.

That even accounts for many 60 and 70 somethings who are still working to some degree and fall below that 90% threshold.

[ProfessorGAC]

11. I'm Thinking It Makes Sense

Lots of people now retired worked for companies that funded pensions for a large part of their career.
The maximum benefit paid by SS is $40,140 at full retirement age.
I took it early so though I would have made the max, I get more like $30,500. My wife gets a bit under 50% of that.
But, even at the max benefit, someone would only need retirement savings or a pension that pays $425 per month before the SS is under 90% of the total.
I would bet, however, that it's a really big percentage of people for whom SS is over 50% of total income, even if they work part time.

[elias7]

12. The SSA disagrees

The Social Security Administration (SSA) estimates that of the over 46 million Americans receiving Social Security retirement benefits… 21% of married couples and 45% of single persons rely on Social Security for 90% or more of their income.

Maybe Bernie meant that 1 of 7 people regardless of age are reliant for > 90% of their income.

Other facts:

Almost all workers participate in Social Security by making payroll tax contributions, and almost all older adults receive Social Security benefits. In fact, 97 percent of older adults (aged 60 to 89) either receive Social Security or will receive it, according to Social Security Administration estimates.

[USALiberal]

37. Source??

[Uncle Joe]

14. With 54 million of us over 65 that would still come to about 3 million 780 thousand Americans.

[JanMichael]

35. The older boomers and silent generation generally have some other pension

It may not be a huge for most but it's not hard to go over 10%, someone's social security.

The younger half of the boomers and down are going to be even more dependent as defined benefit pension percentage drops even further. But right now there's a bunch of 80 and 90 year olds that have other pensions public and private.

[GoodRaisin]

4. Who said anything about cutting it?

I don’t know what “expanding it” means.

We campaigned on strengthening it.

[Sogo]

15. Trump.

Not only cutting it, but eliminating it all together.

When there was the payroll tax recess towards the end of Trump's term, he said if he were re-elected he would eliminate that tax all together, which would have meant eliminating SS and Medicare all together. I pointed this out to some Trumpseters, and all they could say was, "He never said/meant that."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/08/08/trump-payroll-tax-cut/

[in2herbs]

5. SS should provide a minimum payment to seniors. Most women/mothers take

years off their work history to raise children and take care of family and they are not compensated for these lost years with SS benefits for later years. Expanding SS, crediting the caregiver with earned SS benefits during the time raising and caring for a family and providing a minimum payment will help to equalize the financial injustice that women suffer for being caregivers.

Start by taking off the Regan-implemented SS tax.

[Diamond_Dog]

8. +1000

[spooky3]

13. Generally, if they are married or widowed, they can claim benefits based on

spouses’ earnings. Single people are the ones who currently get the worst deal from SS.

The minimum SS benefit was never intended to be enough to live on, and it isn’t. So, if people believe that should change the key is figuring out how to do it and pay for it, rather than pitting one group against another.

[jimfields33]

20. Many take their husbands SS when they divorce or he dies.

That is a great benefit often forgotten until in the situation. Some woman go from 800 a month to 1700. I live with many senior women and that is exactly what occurs.

[milestogo]

24. Yes thats what happened for my mom.

[Grasswire2]

26. There is a solution for that --- called CARE CREDITS

If only it could be made law.

Social Security work credits issued to people who must leave the work force to care for family members at home.

Care Credits.

If you hire someone to take care of your family, that person earns SS work credits.

If you quit your job and do the work yourself, you get NOTHING for retirement. Nothing.

Work at home is WORK, too. Not earning SS credits for it is discriminatory, largely against women but also against fathers who are primary caregivers.

[Bettie]

27. I was an at home mom

yeah, I worked for 16 years before that, but between DH's job which required travel most weeks, usually unplanned and often overseas, and the cost of daycare, my working would have negated my paycheck. Heck, just the daycare, office clothing, and commuting costs would have eaten my entire paycheck.

So, I stayed home with my kids. I don't regret it, but we definitely took a hit that will show when Dh is no longer working. He knows already he'll have to work until at least 70, possibly longer.

[SWBTATTReg]

16. This number or percentage of Americans solely relying on SS for a substantial portion of their

income doesn't surprise me.

What does surprise me is the sheer number of people who stiffed the government in paying their fair share of SS when the time came due to pay their fair share, and all they really did, was stiff themselves to the point that their reported earnings were so low (at the SS office) that their SS benefits were basically nothing, when it finally came time to collect SS benefits.

They alone caused this (the low SS benefits) all by themselves, by hiding the income, not reporting it, not paying the SS due on the unreported income, etc.

I think Sanders is right to perhaps encourage more SS benefits but he needs to be damn careful, and not reward those that deliberately avoided paying their fair share of SS taxes and the rest of us did.

[dpibel]

23. What is the sheer number?

Do you have some data to support your complaint?

[SWBTATTReg]

38. I don't report or work for you. The numbers are out there, get them yourself.

It's an easy google search.

[dpibel]

43. LOL. "I made a vague unsupportable claim...

you disprove it!"

I can see how it might be annoying to state something as a fact and not be able to back it up and get called on it.

But that's where you are.

Some amorphous "sheer number" of people you believe gamed the system and now get what's coming to them.

I'm actually pretty well read. And I've never seen this assertion. Other than, of course, from you.

Maybe I should just take your word for it.

But I don't think I will. I think I will believe you're kinda...you know...making stuff up.

[SWBTATTReg]

44. And you're the one w/ the knowledge to disprove this fact, that folks do not claim all of their

incomes etc.? Isn't this what you're claiming w/ my claim that folks undercut their incomes, a common and well-known fact? Apart from the fact that (1) a family member and who is a CPA too, claimed this (2) and I'm an auditor, by trade, and definitely are in the field to know of these 'tricks' of the trade, that understating income is a common thing in certain areas.

If you are so called pretty well read (and I seriously doubt this now), you should already know this fact (that quite a few incomes are understated), but you didn't and thus, and thus, since you're not well-read, instead cast doubt against my claim (a commonly accepted claim by the way, and w/ no evidence on your assertion what-so-ever).

Here's just a tiny sliver of the numerous articles that deal w/ understated incomes (which I hope you are able to not just read but understand too).

Wealthy Taxpayers Misreport Income More (in Accounting Today);

How To Spot Hidden Income And Assets In Divorce And Family Law Cases

The richest 1 percent dodge taxes on more than one-fifth of their income, study shows
Those at the very top of the income spectrum deny the U.S. government roughly $175 billion a year in revenue, researchers estimate

Understate Your Income When Filing a Tax Return and Face the Music!

[dpibel]

47. I think you have some problems with this argumentation stuff

I was guessing (rightly, as it turns out) that your "sheer numbers" would turn out to be "I know a guy who says, and, by the way, my uncle."

But note that none of the article titles you quote (albeit without links) addresses your original claim: That people understate their income AND are sad when comes time to get Social Security. Unless you really believe that "wealthy taxpayers" and "the richest 1 percent" are really gonna need that extra $1000 a month from SocSec.

Of course there are people who dodge paying full freight on their Form SE. You seem to believe I am challenging that. I am not.

What I am challenging is your linked assertion that there is a "sheer number" of people who do that and who also are distressed when they discover that it has lowered their Social Security benefit. The fact that you know one such person, or maybe even two, does not mean that the situation is widespread.

Which is what you originally claimed, and what I originally challenged.

While we're here, I have a question about your uncle story in post #45 of this thread: You appear to be saying that your uncle's CPA knew your uncle was understating his income (since the CPA warned your uncle that this would come back to bite him). Seems to me that CPA should get his license yanked. Don't you agree?

This has all been fun in a slightly morbid way, but I will happily leave it to you to have the last word, as I have spent far too much time on this already.

Cheers.

[TheRealNorth]

49. I don't know about actual numbers

But this practice happens a lot with friends I know that work in roofing and construction.

[Demobrat]

28. I know a few people who did that.

My hairdresser, who is very good and always busy, has under reported his income for decades. Recently he looked at his social security statement and freaked. Another friend who did the same thing is a waiter in high end restaurants. Both enjoy fairly comfortable lifestyles. But now they’re getting older and going uh-oh.

Their solution is to “never retire”.

I worry.

[SWBTATTReg]

45. Yeah, my uncle did this and then when it came time to collect his SS, he had undercut his 'earnings'

by a significant amount (per the accountant/CPA that did his taxes, who told him so that that this would come back to bite him) and is getting a pittance now.

I don't feel bad about his situation as he kind of paid himself upfront all of those 'extra' funds upfront instead of paying into SS on a regular basis and then getting it later. Those with businesses of their own seem to be the ones who underpay on SS the most (and don't get me wrong, a lot of small businesses do in fact, do the 'right' thing and pay what they should quarterly).

[JustAnotherGen]

18. Sanders is missing something here

The plan by the GOP is to ELIMINATE SS in five years - ditto medicare.

Its in their plan.

Democratic Party needs to go HARD - GOP House and Senate Candidates are going to eliminate your SS and Medicare. They need to say it over and over and over again -

Especially for folks in Florida and Arizona.

[doc03]

22. Bernie how about adjusting the threshold for taxing

SS benefits for inflation! As it is now middle income people are being punished for having a pension or saving for retirement. We worked hard played by the rules and get penalized.

[Demobrat]

32. You got that right. We spend our working lives living below our means

and then as our reward we get to pay taxes on our social security.

[doc03]

33. I pay tax on nearly 85% of my SS and people that I worked with

that never saved and cashed out their pensions don't pay any tax on SS.

[Demobrat]

34. I will too once RMDs kick in.

I guess my mistake was maxing out the 401k all these years.

[doc03]

36. Tax takes almost 1/4 of my RMDs.

I am in the 12% tax bracket so I pay 12% tax on my RMDs which is fine with me. But in addition to that it subjects 85% of my SS to income tax. So in effect I pay almost double what my income tax bracket is. We sacrificed to have a nice income in retirement then get penalized. I worked with people that drank their money up or lived a lavish life style, never saved a dime. Then they cashed out their pensions and blew it too. Now we pay extra tax on what we sacrificed for. My suggestion put all you can of your IRA investments in a Roth IRA before you have to take RMDs. If you have other savings pay your tax out of that not the principle in the IRA. If you can, do it at least
3 years before you get Medicare. I got burned on that, they base you Medicare part "B" payment on the income you
made 2 years prior. The first year I had to pay nearly double for Medicare.

[Rhiannon12866]

30. Twitter replies:

Link to tweet

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[YoshidaYui]

31. Got that right

:/

I would love an expansion, I might eat better.

[roamer65]

39. Only if the cap on SS taxes is eliminated.

No government borrowing to raise benefits.

The wealthier of us can afford to pay for it and should be made to do so.

[Uncle Joe]

40. That sounds like one of the most logical ideas to me roamer.

It seems to me that we as a nation would be much greater both economically and symbolically if "We the people" placed all Americans whether military or civilian in the "leaved no one behind" boat.

[roamer65]

41. An ideology that has been lost in this country.

Social responsibility.

[WarGamer]

42. My #1 pet peeve issue is raising the BASE Social Security benefit.

Right now it's around $600... should be 1200.

[SWBTATTReg]

46. Just curious, the BASE you're talking about is the minimum amount of SS one can receive?

Thanks!