If Mike Pence had not called out the National Guard?

[kentuck]

What would have happened?

General Milley testified in the First Hearing last night that Pence had to take over as Commander in Chief because the elected Commander-in-Chief had shirked his duties and had joined the other side.

Trump did not speak to the mob until he had heard that the NG was on its way to the Capitol. It was only when the National Guard was on its way to quell the violence, by force if necessary, that Trump decided to call off the dogs.

But, if the domestic terrorists inside the Capitol had stayed and their armed comrades over in Virginia had been on their way to the Capitol, after the Capitol Police had been rather beaten down, however heroically, what would have happened?

No matter what we think of Pence, as a right-winger or as a delusional presidential candidate, we have to give credit where credit is due. Donald Trump was not going to call out the National Guard or any help for the Capitol Policemen. (Although the Metro Police gave them all the support they had to counter the attack, it was not enough) It removed the attackers from the Capitol, in my opinion.

Early the next morning, they were able to return to the floor of the House and resume the factual counting of the Electoral votes.

[C_U_L8R]

1. Still, Mike Pence is no hero

If he were, he'd be pounding on Congress' door to testify.

[MadameButterfly]

20. Pence just wanted to run for president, and instead saved democracy

However delusional, he was clear that he couldn't run if he was implicated in a failed coup, or if a successful coup ended democracy.

Whatever Pence's failings, the goal of being president was enough for him. It was even enough for Nixon. It took Trump, our first mentally ill narcissist president, beholden to Putin and in deep financial trouble to decide it had to be a dictatorship.

I wonder if Pence will ever let go of his original ambitions enough to own his own heroism. Because he did save democracy. Not a bad legacy.

[H2O Man]

2. Recommended.

I agree 100%. I do not like Pence, nor Ms. Cheney. But I respect what Pence did that day, and what Cheney has done since.

[kentuck]

5. One should never put Party over Country.

That is my guide.

[H2O Man]

19. Definitely!

[bucolic_frolic]

3. In that window of time how did Pence assume the authority for operational control of the government?

He wouldn't exercise 25A solutions. Trump was still president. Shirking responsibilities is not a delegation of duty. If it were, leaders of all stripes public and private would be vulnerable all the time.

So there must have been a tacit acknowledgement by some that 25A was not in play, but do what makes sense, we'll all look the other way.

General Alexander Haig had his moment, and it brought the house down on him.

[David__77]

6. Institutional forces weren't prepared to act.

That he wasn’t arrested is emblematic of a system deep in decay.

[UpInArms]

10. Thank you for clarifying

Because that was not how it came across to me in watching last night.

[kentuck]

9. When he said "politics, politics, politics", he was responding to Meadows request...

..to keep control of the "narrative" and say that Trump was still in control, etc, rather than saying that Pence had taken over the duties of the Commander in Chief. Milley seemed to think highly of Pence's actions, as I recall?

[UpInArms]

11. That part somehow escaped me last night

And I was trying to pay close attention … thank you.

[kentuck]

13. They moved rather quickly and covered a lot of information.

In my opinion.

[milestogo]

12. Is that what General Milley said?

I recall him saying that Pence had asked for support, not that he had become Commander in Chief.

I believe that Pence contacted Milley, after which Milley contacted Trump. Trump made no requests for support because things were going as planned.

Remarks from General Milley:

Pence -- not Trump -- called for help
The committee also showed new video from its interview with Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley saying Pence was the one who ordered National Guard troops to respond to the violence on January 6, but that he was told by the White House to say it was Trump.
"Vice President Pence -- there were two or three calls with Vice President Pence. He was very animated, and he issued very explicit, very direct, unambiguous orders. There was no question about that," Milley says in the video.
"He was very animated, very direct, very firm to Secretary Miller. 'Get the military down here, get the guard down here. Put down this situation, et cetera,'" he added, referring to Pence.
Milley also described his interactions with Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows that day, drawing a stark contrast between those conversations with Pence.
"He said: We have to kill the narrative that the vice president is making all the decisions. We need to establish the narrative, you know, that the President is still in charge and that things are steady or stable, or words to that effect," Milley says in the video, referring to what Meadows told him.
"I immediately interpreted that as politics, politics, politics. Red flag for me, personally. No action. But I remember it distinctly," he added.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/09/politics/jan-6-hearing-takeaways-thursday/index.html

[kentuck]

14. That was my interpretation of what Milley said..

Not a direct quote.

But, I suppose, if Pence was giving orders to the NG and Homeland Security, etc, he was the "acting Commander-in-Chief".

[getagrip_already]

15. just a question really....

But did pence have the authority to order the ng to do anything?

tfg was still cic. And officially pence had zero powers of the presidency.

How did he order anything? I'm glad he did and the ng followed, but was that an illegal act?

Could a rogue vp order an ng assault on citizens somewhere for bad reasons?

[milestogo]

16. I don't know what powers the VP has.

It does not seem unreasonable that a VP would be allowed to call for the National Guard. Governors have that power.

But Pence was never commander in chief. I assume Milley made a judgment call based on the urgency of the situation.

[kentuck]

17. Pence was never the Commander in Chief by title...

Only in reality. He saw the necessity, that Donald Trump was doing nothing to protect the Capitol or the people inside.

[milestogo]

18. And that Trump was trying to have him killed.

If someone wrote a screenplay with these elements it would be considered too far-fetched.

[kentuck]

21. Truth is stranger than fiction...

...in this case.

[scipan]

22. Does anyone else remember Pelosi

called the governors if MD and VA to send their national guards? And Gov Hogan said yes, not so sure about Virginia.

I don't think she had the authority, but they were in desperate straits.