Don't Exactly Know How To Word This But - Did TFG Create The Idea That The Election Was Stolen.....

[global1]

and convince others in his administration and Party to join him in contesting it and calling it the 'big lie' so he could remain in power?

Or

Did someone tell TFG that he could contest the election and keep him in office?

It's kind of like a 'chicken or egg' question. Which came first?

Was it TFG's idea or did it come from one or more of his minions?

[treestar]

1. TFG's idea

He had already said in the 2016 debate that he would accept the results of the election if he won.

[Claustrum]

2. Exactly this.

He was ready to call 2016 rigged and stolen if Hilary won. He did the same thing in 2016 and 2020, only that he lost in 2020.

[Glorfindel]

4. Absolutely... the monstrous idea of TFG

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” ~Maya Angelou

[TigressDem]

14. But only IF he wins.

[dalton99a]

20. +1. It is part of a lifelong narrative

He and his people (WHITE people) have been treated very badly, very unfairly

[Kaleva]

3. I think it's a holdover from 2016

Back when he claimed he'd win if the election was fair and legal and the only was Hillary could win was by election fraud.

[brush]

5. He was laying the ground work for months that if...

he lost the election would be rigged. He's not the sharpest knife in the drawer but he is a cunning MFer who has evil instincts, but not enough smarts to pull them off.

[Effete Snob]

6. He had already insisted for a long time that if he didn't win, it would be stolen

Long before the election, the narrative that it would only be legitimate if he won.

I mean, they DEFINED a stolen election as a Trump loss.

This was heads I win, tails you lose.

[brooklynite]

7. I believe the latter...

Trump isn't a strategist. He listens to whomever tells him something he likes.

[Thomas Hurt]

8. The Pig was prepared to squeal election fraud if he had lost to Hilary.

It has always been his fn idea.

[Gore1FL]

9. I'm pretty sure the idea and directive came from Moscow. nt

[LuckyCharms]

10. tfg created it, and I say that because...

that's the way he operates.

It's part of the playbook he uses.

Whenever something does not go his way, it's either "fake" or "rigged".

And then he repeats these concepts over and over until it becomes the "truth" to people with weaker minds.

He methodically tried to destroy this country, starting way back when, when he first starting harping on "fake news".

It's gaslighting at its most extreme.

I believe he was most certainly coached by Putin. He was groomed, because he was the perfect candidate for grooming, since he had already been using these tactics before he gained power.

So,

He sets up a series of lies.

He repeats the lies until they become the "truth". He never backs down from these lies, ever.

He gains power.

Then, he creates fear.

His repug enablers side with him out of fear.

Either that, or he has some goods on the republicans.

Fear creates loyalty, because the repugs fear the consequences of not being loyal.

[tanyev]

18. Yep, I think that's just how he rolls.

He was probably whining about fake and rigged tests in elementary school.

[usonian]

11. ProPublica has a list of the usual suspects.

They suggest that origins may have been in the usual internet cesspool and then moved "from the far-right fringe to the center of the Republican Party" as it "stuck to the wall" with rubes.

And this all sounds familiar for a "Party of Nothing"

TFG hasn't had a single original thought other than "GIMME, I'VE BEEN ROBBED"

https://www.propublica.org/article/big-lie-trump-stolen-election-inside-creation

ProPublica has obtained a trove of internal emails and other documentation that, taken together, tell the inside story of a group of people who propagated a number of the most pervasive theories about how the election was stolen, especially that voting machines were to blame, and helped move them from the far-right fringe to the center of the Republican Party.

Those records, as well as interviews with key participants, show for the first time the extent to which leading advocates of the stolen-election theory touted evidence that they knew to be disproven or that had been credibly disputed or dismissed as dubious by operatives within their own camp. Some members of the coalition presented this mix of unreliable witnesses, unconfirmed rumor and suspect analyses as fact in published reports, talking points and court documents. In several cases, their assertions became the basis for Trump’s claims that the election had been rigged.

Our examination of their actions from the 2020 election to the present day reveals a pattern. Many members of the coalition would advance a theory based on evidence that was never vetted or that they’d been told was flawed; then, when the theory was debunked, they’d move on to the next alternative and then the next.

The coalition includes several figures who have attracted national attention. Retired Army Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, who served briefly as national security adviser to Trump before pleading guilty to lying to law enforcement about his contacts with Russian officials, is the most well known. Patrick Byrne, the former CEO of Overstock.com who left his position after his romantic relationship with the convicted Russian agent Maria Butina became public, is the coalition’s chief financier and a frequent intermediary with the press. Powell, who represented Flynn in his attempt to reverse his guilty plea, spearheaded efforts in the courts.

Before Powell arrived at the plantation, Wood had filed a lawsuit in federal court in Atlanta against Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger that sought to stop him from certifying Biden’s victory. Soon after Powell showed up, Wood submitted an anonymized declaration from Salazar as evidence of how the election was corrupted. He then filed an emergency motion that sought access to Dominion machines in Georgia to “conduct a forensic inspection of this equipment and the data therein.” The case was eventually dismissed, but it would serve as a template for the series of high-profile lawsuits that Powell would file in Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin and Georgia.

More at the link.

[Novara]

12. He's been handed everything his entire life and thought he earned it all himself

He is the entire universe's worst sore loser. Russia gave him 2016. It was pure projection saying that if Hillary had won it would have come down to cheating; HE WAS CHEATING. Remember Russia hacked into voter databases? Forensic investigations were never conducted. It is not believable for a second that Russia gained access to 39 state's voter databases and just backed out and walked away. He cheated; he won. He assumes everyone cheats. He doesn't even think cheating is wrong. Remember he said he was so smart for dodging taxes? Cheating successfully is a virtue to him.

So of course he would attribute losing to cheating. And he knows if you repeat a lie often enough, people start believing it.

Remember this?

During the December 27, 2020, call, Trump pressured Rosen and Donoghue to falsely declare the election "illegal" and "corrupt" even after the Justice Department had not uncovered evidence of widespread voter fraud.

"Just say that the election was corrupt + leave the rest to me and the R. Congressmen," Trump said on the call, according to Donoghue's notes.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/politics/trump-election-justice/index.html

He knew damn well he lost legitimately.

[TigressDem]

13. Either him or Putin originated it.

Once he did decide to go with it, though. He's pulling everyone in to make it happen.

IF ONLY he'd shown this much dedication and hustle actually DOING the job of being President.

Sigh.

[chowder66]

15. He's at the least complicit by asking GA to find the 11k votes.

[WarGamer]

16. I believe they had someone who came up with a "back of the napkin"

scheme... something that would thread the needle of legality... if everything went perfectly to plan.

It's been discussed before that the election process and electoral vote count process has loopholes that should be closed ASAP.

The person who WINS... should be the winner, conspiracy theories aside.

[Straw Man]

17. The historical analogy:

"Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?" -- King Henry II

That's the way that mobsters do it. It was his idea, but the challenge is proving it.

[gab13by13]

19. It does not matter,

It does not matter, all of Trump's closest advisors, his lawyers, AG Barr, his freaking daughter, told him he lost the election. All of this means that Trump knew, so his proceeding shows he did so with criminal intent.

It doesn't matter whose idea it was.

[Bleacher Creature]

21. He always believes that anything he loses is fraudulent and seeks out people to validate him.

[Chainfire]

23. Trump sees himself as infallible

therefore if he lost the election it would be that someone stole it from him.

What somebody needs to explain to Trump is this; "If they stole the election, and you can't prove it, it means that they are a hell of a lot smarter than you." "If they won the election, fair and square, it is because the people rejected you." "Take your pick." That might make his head explode.

[rampartc]

24. i've had plenty of bosses - the lazy and stupid ones in particular

who must be convinced that any idea is their own. trump does fit the "lazy and stupid" profile.

[Lettuce Be]

25. Because he simply cannot lose, he had to say it was rigged. He said it before the election that

if he didn't win it was rigged. He also said that in his election against Clinton, i.e. if he didn't win, it was rigged. Now we know that election was rigged (help from Russia) so he was partly correct.