PBS Newshour had an excellent segment raising an important point

[NewHendoLib]

About Pence. Essentially...yes, he did the right thing on Jan 6. But all of this could have been possibly avoided if he came out much earlier to clearly state Biden won.

The other conclusion discussed - that what Nixon did was very bad. What Trump attempted is far, far worse, as in the biggest crime against our form of government.

[okaawhatever]

1. K & R

[uponit7771]

2. K&R,

[MerryBlooms]

3. r&k

[Stuart G]

4. Thank You Very Much for posting those ideas from PBS Newshour...K and R

[Samrob]

5. I still maintain that Pence would have if he could have. He was looking for a way to do it but

was halted on every turn. How many people did he ask if he had the authority? his initial instinct may have been to not do what Trump was asking but he would have done it if he had gotten the ok from any one of the people he went to for advice.

He had already done and said too many deceitful Trumpian things to be held in high regard. That said, I am happy that he took the advice of Constitutionally dedicated men.

[NewHendoLib]

6. Exactly.

[llashram]

10. this++

and if just one has given the go-ahead, we would be living in a country where a con artist, a sexual predator with a grifting family along with a fascist racist rubber stamp of everything d. trump said. Thankfully he found a backbone when forced to make the decision on electoral procedure...

[not fooled]

13. ++++++++++++++

punce is no hero, only a weasel who was smart enough to ask around before doing what red don wanted.

[calimary]

14. He's just another "broken clock."

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Butterflylady]

24. Yes he asked and was told his job

Was only ceremonial. Even if he tried to do anything it would have been illegal and wouldn't have changed anything.

[The Roux Comes First]

44. I Cannot Agree With the Idea That His Actions Would Not Have Changed Anything

Given the obvious chaos at the capitol and throughout our country these days, a choice by Pence to violate the law, Constitution, and all precedent, I feel, could well have made the catastrophe much worse. If the yam poured kerosene on the maddened, self-absorbed and self-proclaimed rioting "patriots," any move by Pence to nullify the vote would likely have been more like a railcar of fertilizer.

[uponit7771]

39. +1,

[eppur_se_muova]

42. AND if he had announced his refusal a month before, would he still be alive on Jan 6th ?

Don't put anything past these MAGAts.

[msfiddlestix]

7. Excellent point, one I keep thinking since the hearings began.

Pence is being presented as the hero that saved our democracy. To a certain extent I'd agree, but for the fact that he could have said just this fact once it was clear Biden was the winner of that contest.

Yes, it would have made life even more miserable possibly even precariously close to danger long before Jan 6. so I feel mixed about it.

But I do see a potential run with Liz Cheney on an Independent Party Ticket, winning Independents and conservative Dems, and possibly traditional "never trumpers" Republicans.

damn, I hope not.

[bucolic_frolic]

9. He (Pence) may have been aware all along

that he was in their way, expendable, and just been saying to himself, 'let's see how far it goes, maybe I won't have to do anything, or it will dissipate'.

Perhaps he felt in danger if he spoke up earlier.

[Leith]

17. I mostly agree

It seems that, what with the language used and the way the story of Pence was told today, the committee is going out of their way to make Pence the good guy - completely innocent in every way. Well, since the whole point of the proceedings is to concentrate on that one gigantic crime the orange monster planned and executed (and not the entirety of the maladministration), ol' Mikey is innocent. He was complicit in everything else since he became the VP candidate.

I think that making Pence look almost saintlike is chapping chump's butt. And that makes me smile.

[Whiskeytide]

27. I think what they're doing is, at least in part, sending a message ...

… to others in future elections that doing the right thing is commendable. The next state SOS or election official faced with something like this might be bolstered to stay within the law if pence is canonized a little.

[milestogo]

8. Pence was in a horrible position that no VP had ever been in.

And he came close to losing his life for doing the right thing. I can't believe MAGAts are unmoved by that.

[KS Toronado]

11. Lot of repugs in the know should have been warning the public

none did, and as far as Pence doing something brave, he doesn't like making waves.

[rurallib]

19. Yep and not a one stepped up for the country

And even after the event no one stepped up to do the right thing, even during an impeachment.

Pence could have done a lot of good after the insurrection to speak up then but -- NADA

[Snackshack]

12. Not only is what DT...

Did much worse then Nixon it also eclipses what Benedict Arnold wanted to do and he’s pretty
much the gold standard of American traitors and DT left him in the dust.

[Beartracks]

22. Trump left even Benedict Arnold in the dust.

Just bears repeating.

Folks don't call him Benedict Donald for nothing, but "Trump" should forevermore be equated with treason.

============

[SouthBayDem]

15. The newshour has all their segments on YouTube

I'll watch when i get the time. Is it this one?

Transcript: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/jan-6-committee-examines-how-trump-pressured-pence-to-overturn-the-2020-election

[NullTuples]

16. Pence was a coward. It's just that it was to our benefit. That does not make him a hero.

He's always been a snake, working within the system and they were asking him to burn that system down.

[Rebl2]

18. Is it

possible he feared for his life, as well as his family’s lives?

[slightlv]

20. I'm a little bit beyond where you guys are

where Pence is concerned, I think. All this making him look like a good guy is going to come back to bite us in the butt, I'm afraid. I wish the J6 committee would cut it out. The story can be told and the contrast between him and Trump made without making him seem like a saint. He ain't one. While watching the hearing today, I got the distinct feeling he's getting a great lift at his campaign to run for Prez in 2024. We don't want him. The Dominionists and the Reconstructionists definitely DO want him on the ticket, and they DO want him as prez. We'll be living under a Theocracy much like Iran faster than you can sneeze three times in that situation. And like msfiddlestix said, I can see a potential run with Liz Cheney on an Independent ticket, capturing Independents, conservative dems and never trumpers. That would not only cut into the Republican numbers, it would cut into Democratic numbers, as well, and leave us at a disadvantage. I could easily see Pence and Cheney elected and starting us down the road on Theocratic form of government. God save us from the Bible thumpers... especially his kind. He's just too damned dangerous to let near the levers of power. He's every bit as dangerous as Trump is; he's just more quiet about it.

[NonPC]

26. Don't Worry About Pence 2024

Pence is an unelectable tool. Maybe he could get elected in Indiana, but he does not have enough charisma to be President. So why does it hurt that the Dems are being super nice to him. Yes, he should have helped extinguish the flames in early December which might have prevented the January 6th riot. But I think the reason he didn't, is that he didn't know what the evil empire was planning for January 6th -- they didn't let him in on the backup plan. He probably thought the whole "Stop the Steal" thing might finally fizzle out on it's own. He guessed wrong.

[slightlv]

45. I hope you're right, NonPC.

I guess I worry whenever I see someone built up like this; the fantasy takes over the reality. And we've had WAY too much of that with the MAGATs! Also, religion is wrapping itself around so much of our government and other institutions it just makes me real queasy.

[calimary]

46. You're not alone, slightlv.

Your worries are well-founded.

[renate]

50. I concur with everything you said

Donald has always been full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Pence was told he couldn’t overturn the election, he wouldn’t have been in on the plot, and he was just like the rest of the normal population who could never have imagined an actual coup in the United States of America. I’m sure he thought it would just end in a roadblock for Trump and that would be that.

[gademocrat7]

21. K&R!

[ancianita]

23. Yes, a clearer look at Pence's 'heroism'. MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell just made the same point.

[Upthevibe]

25. Kick. N/T

[tonekat]

28. I watched that too.

Pence is definitely no hero.

Barr could have spoken out months earlier too.

There was a good article in the NYT today about not letting these folks; Ivanka, Jared, etc.. have their reputations "laundered/dry cleaned".

[soldierant]

29. The point about Pence

depends on the assumption that Proud Boys and Oath Keepers and all the other Nazis are persuadable by facts. Sure, some are/. A few. But I've seen no evidence that it might be general.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

30. Just what I was hollering from the kitchen while making dinner to my husband

in the other room watching the hearings.



Same with Bill Barr. He enabled Pissolini all that time, helping him do all kinds of damage and crimes, rather than exposing that stuff, he saved it up for his book.

[cilla4progress]

31. As Lawrence O-Donnell said tonight,

Pence has known since 2001 that as VP he did not have the power.

He was there when Gore gaveled the Senate closed and gave up the Presidency to Bush.

This country was at a juncture then. We took the corrupt path.

[Captain Zero]

32. has anyone considered Pence feared for his life much sooner that Jan. 5-6?

He had spent four years in this freak show. Do you think he wasn't well aware
of trumps and the trump family's vindictiveness and vengefulness when they felt they were crossed?

Pence may have considered that he had to live until Jan. 6 in order to do what he did on Jan. 6.
Have you considered that?

otherwise, with Pence dead or some other way "out of the picture" it certainly sounds like Grassley would have doddered right into dictatorship with trump. Although I think it's more likely that Grassley would have been conveniently sidetracked after a coup and with Pence and Pelosi dead, that would have made Mike Pompeo your vice-president.

[PoliticAverse]

33. "if he came out much earlier to clearly state Biden won." - Perhaps, or perhaps...

it would have resulted in a plan B that succeeded.

[YoshidaYui]

34. lawrence odonnell used the word "TRAITOR"

if the DOJ charged him its either death or life in prison.

[ShepKat]

35. when dealing with an abuser

especially one as narcissistic as the orange maggot.... it is safest for self and family to be stealth and steadfast as quietly as possible to get what has to get done, done - and minimize the damage towards loved ones. Threats are common and with followers like his....

[Raster]

36. All of them... All of them... All of them...

...could have come forward much earlier than this.

Many "patriots" are only coming forward now because of the J6 Committee holding their feet to the fire.

There will be no ticker tape parades for ANY Republican, Liz Cheney included.
We don't hand out GOLD STARS because a Republican did the right thing and actually lived up to the "solemn" oaths they took to support and defend the United States Constitution, against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.
That should have been the rule, and NOT the exception.

And frankly, one political party has been the stalwart defender of the Constitution.
One party actively works to make sure everyone gets to vote and their votes are counted correctly.
One party doesn't seem to think they deserve a gold star for just fulfilling their oaths and doing their duty.
And it's NOT the Republican Party.

[Ilsa]

37. Lawrence O'Donnell said the same thing. It would have taken

the wind out of trump's sails and not allow the myth of the steal to gain traction.

[The Jungle 1]

38. No way could he speak out earlier!

His lips were stuck to trumps fat ass.

[dlk]

40. Pence didn't do the right thing until he was cornered

Even then, he consulted with experts to see if he had an out. When he realized there wasn’t one, he caved. Pence is a weak, mealy-mouthed weasel. He only did the right thing when there was no other viable option-a profile in cowardice.

[NewHendoLib]

41. Yup!

[LaMouffette]

43. Above all else, Pence is a self-serving politician through and through. I believe the reason he did

not speak up and say, "I can't legally overturn the election. I'm not gonna do that. Nope!" prior to January 6 was because he didn't want to go against Trump's voters. Pence wanted to stay in their favor so that they would one day reward his loyalty to Trump by electing him president.

Pence also probably hoped that Trump's little scheme (and Big Lie) would actually work and Trump would remain president and he would remain VP.

It wasn't until his very life was threatened and Trump backstabbed him that Pence finally came to his senses.

[jaxexpat]

47. Pence didn't try it simply because he was told by smart people that it wouldn't work.

The good of the country, preserving the constitution, honoring 200-plus years of precedent, none of these things have any meaning to a "kingdom of heaven on earth" fruitcake like him.

Pence is an opportunistic jerk who was just barely canny enough to finally see that Trump had sent him into the eye of his psychotic storm to play a sacrificial role in his lame and dumb-assed attempt to prove how all who dare to doubt his brilliance are the real fools. He finally figured out Trump was using him to try and create an appearance of only secondary involvement. His was to maintain Trump's plausible deniability for participation in the shit that would inevitably hit the fan when the wacky, "emperor forever", plan went south. A keystone cops version of the Hitler/Mussolini duet.

There is not a whit of honor nor altruism to be found in any individual or combination of all Trump's team of villains. If any good action was actually done by his administration, it was either by error, accident or as a smokescreen to cover other, heinous, activities. None had any interest in good government or government at all. It was always about picking up the odd billions left unattended or garnering power by kompromat on whoever had let their guard down for a moment. For every revelation about Gen. Flynn's outrageous behavior there were/are other "generals" whose tender parts were equally at Trump's mercy. And so in the leaders of the industrial sectors, the communications and technology sectors as well. Even for those more clever, more experienced or simply better, none had the silver bullet or kryptonite to go up against the imprimatur of POTUS. There is much to uncover and they've had nearly six years head start.

[sloopdog50]

48. Really?!

Oh, yes, now all the tRumplicans are coming forth with the own brand of righteousness regarding their complicity in allowing this national act of sedition to occur.

Mike Pence - stayed on tRump messaging or silent until he no longer could. Power, position, and money...these are what is in control of our government. Until we are relieved of this type of nationalism, we will continue to be under-represented and democracy in peril.

[LiberalFighter]

49. It was pointed out when Trump said pence was on board with declaring electoral votes illegitimate

he should had immediately put out a statement disputing it.