Don't panic, the abortion ban is going to fail miserable just like prohibition did.

[fightforfreedom]

It is not enforceable. They will try to enforce it and they will fail. There are Republican controlled States that are poor states. They don't have the resources to enforce the crazy laws they are going to pass. They will have to create an anti abortion police force, court system, in order to enforce it. That costs money, resources.

[uponit7771]

1. True but US population has grown so if proportionally the stories are the same we'll here more of

... the botched abortions etc.

What the SC has done is a travesty

[PortTack]

2. Nailed it!

[Irish_Dem]

3. There is always money for the GOP to foist their diabolical plans on the American people.

[Hugin]

14. They may have exceeded their well this time.

For a group of people who claim to want (checks notes) “less government in their lives”, they have just created the largest nanny state (pun intended) the world has ever seen. It turns slightly over half of the population into criminals-in-waiting who need close watching with more being added at each ruling.

Usually I can discern an end game to sweeping actions. This time I am at a loss unless they aim only to be colossal assholes.

Which leads me back to a claim I have been making for some time now that TFG is only the most prominent example of what is the dominant strain of all republicans.

[Irish_Dem]

17. The end goal is to install white christian male minority rule.

The GOP wants total permanent power.

Yes half the population is now subjugated to the male power structure.

The goal is to control, and to make a docile, compliant population.

Also for the population to live in fear from gun violence.
They will keep killing our children until we learn the lesson.

I agree, Trump is just a reflection of the R party.
Which is not really a political party, but a crime syndicate.

[Hugin]

22. Again though...

Who is going to administer this pipe dream? They are going to be a very busy minority. Of course, it’s ridiculous of me to think there is a plan.

I agree that what you say is what they think they are going to achieve. The reality is, all this will actually accomplish is chaos and division. With much more misery heaped on the already miserable.

Now, I ask you, who does that serve?

[Irish_Dem]

29. Putin and the GOP want chaos, division, confusion.

It is the divide and conquer strategy.

They do not care if people die, or suffer. We are just collateral damage in their quest for power.

I do think they have a plan.

Back in the old days, I assure you the police made time to arrest women and LGBTs.

There is always time and money to enforce the GOP agenda.

[Hugin]

40. Exactly! n/t

[machoneman]

51. Yes, repeal the right of women to vote. Minorities too. Only landed white males can vote. Geesh!

[intheflow]

69. "Slightly half the population"?

Last time I checked, women made up the majority of US and world citizens.

https://www.prb.org/resources/u-s-population-is-growing-older/#:~:text=The%20projected%20U.S.%20sex%20ratio,older%20(see%20Figure%203).

[Hugin]

72. In my haste to post I left out the word "over"...

Thank you for reading my post so closely.



Also, as I pointed out. The group bearing watching is growing exponentially with each ruling. Except strangely, the gun owners.

[intheflow]

73. Ah, I've been there, Friend.

My thoughts flying faster than my fingers can type.

[hlthe2b]

4. Stochastic terrorism is the enforcement. The vigilante lawsuits and threats of felony charges

will drive ob-gyn and IV fertilization specialists out of practice out of fear. The laws are so lacking in any definition of the medical aspects for any and all exceptions that it will be the wild west with physicians and others arrested before any court decisions are available to provide even minimal clarity.

Fear of the unknown and its consequences are powerful deterrence factors. Public targeting is even more so.

Long term, I think we will prevail, but only if we activate the NON-VOTERS--the apathetic. And such reassuring posts (falsely reassuring, IMO) are not going to do that.

[Hugin]

16. The apathy party is almost wholly responsible for this decay of civility.

It can be argued that they have been cultivated by the republicans. Although it is also true that they may be attempting to court them for support. I really don’t know which is the case.

[we can do it]

35. This 👆🏽deserves a thread of its own.

[hwmnbn]

38. +1

[SamKnause]

5. And how many lives will be destroyed during this little experiment ???

People have the right to panic.

I imagine all the ladies who had abortions scheduled yesterday and were told not to come are in a panic.

I sure as fuck would be.

For clarity I am a 69 year old female.

Don't let the nickname fool you.

I was scheduled to have an abortion, but miscarried.

I was thrilled !!!

[fightforfreedom]

12. Believe me, I understand what you are saying.

Poor women are in great danger. They may not have the money to travel. However, I also know women are very resourceful. I also know many abortions are now done with an abortion pill.

[dewsgirl]

24. As far as I know, at the clinic you could choose either(2014). There are

pros and cons to both, but any cons were just removed from the list yesterday.

For those of us that have been born since 1973, this is unimaginable.
If I were single, I would hope I would be strong enough to never have sex again.😟 Well at least until I don't need to worry about an accidental pregnancy.

[Lovie777]

6. Arresting women and putting them into baby factories while eager religious adopting agencies . . .

try to obtain babies to teach them how to hate in cults in red states.

[dewsgirl]

28. Good God it's more like Gilead every single day.

They want Handmaids.

[bdamomma]

32. I kept on

saying that yesterday or even before. Gilead. The problem is who's next???? They are emboldened now. And Thomas said out loud what else is on the chopping block. Same Sex marriage, LGBT, contraception etc. I even shudder if they will take voting away from us.

[dewsgirl]

34. Just sadly terrifying.😢

[bdamomma]

41. We will get

through this, we are not going backwards. Vote in November to get them OUT

[HAB911]

52. he was strangely silent on

interracial marriage

[bdamomma]

53. hmm.....

I wonder why

His ass should be thrown out and his wife part of Jan 6th insurrection posse.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. You might have a point.

Prosecutors' Offices are not necessarily flush with endless cash. They have a budget. Between the number of prosecutors and trial dockets, you can't prosecute EVERYONE. IOW, as a prosecutor, you choose between a trial for a murder or an abortion and you can't have both. Which one? And don't think that their budgets will be increased that much to prosecute abortions. They won't be.

[Walleye]

9. I think that's the whole point. They get to prosecute the people they don't like

[no_hypocrisy]

13. They will prioritize and I don't believe abortions have the same resonance as

murder, attempted murder, mayhem, riots, even BLM (racial discrimination). Women are lower on the Totem Pole.

[lapfog_1]

8. sorry

all they have to do is charge and convict ONE doctor for performing an abortion... or even prescribing a morning after pill.

After that, no doctor practicing in that state will do anything related to pregnancy and termination... even to protect the life of the mother-to-be... at least until she is near death.

in fact, a lot of docs will stop prescribing birth control (if it prevents implantation of a fertilized egg) and IUDs (same reason).

All such services will now go underground. The well to do will be able to travel to get what they need (as they were able to do before Roe). Underground services are not pretty and are very dangerous to the women. Teenagers will be the most at risk.

[mopinko]

31. there were docs who did it pre-roe. there will be again.

maybe not many, but srsly, if they value their oath, they will ignore these laws.

[yardwork]

43. And risk prison? No, they won't.

Much of the country will have zero providers or facilities to offer abortions, even for women whose lives depend on it.

A lot of women are going to die.

[mopinko]

47. a lot of them are already being threatened and killed.

i'm not saying that fixes anything. just pointing out how committed most of the people doing it now are already doing it under threat.

[BumRushDaShow]

58. They won't call it that

As my mother often reminded me and my sisters, that pre-Roe, gynecologists would perform "D & C"s (Dilation and Curettage). This was done for those with excessive endometriosis, cysts, fibroids, tumors, and other issues within the uterus.

[FBaggins]

10. I'm afraid that simply isn't true

You're paying attention to imaginings of police tracking women down or watching period-tracking apps online. That indeed might be unworkable from a budgetary standpoint...

... but there are remarkably few doctors who perform abortions across the country. The states that ban the procedure (or otherwise significantly restrict its use) have more than enough resources to close a Planned Parenthood office. Even the poorest ones.

[onlyadream]

15. Also, many of these loony right wing activists may volunteer to monitor girls and women.

They’re like rabid dogs (with a huge dose of self righteousness).

[superpatriotman]

11. There's always money for cops and prisons

Look around the world. Look at history.

[Buckeyeblue]

18. I don't think there will be much effort to enforce

The problem is that there will be no access in many places. None. Many women will not have a choice. A few lucky ones, who have the means or are fortunate to find people willing to help, will travel to where there is access.

The rest will be forced to give birth.

Hopefully, people vote. If we could flip some state legislatures, maybe we could get a constitutional amendment. We actually need a few...Especially if we have to read the constitution like it's the late 1700's.

[fightforfreedom]

21. It will create an underground blackmarket for abortions.

There will be people performing un-safe abortions. We know this from history. Many abortions are now done with a pill. There will be a black-market for this pill.

Bottom line, if a woman wants an abortion she is going to get one and there is not a dam thing anybody can do about it. An abortion ban will fail, period.

[Buckeyeblue]

33. Agreed.

[Solly Mack]

19. You do know that women who miscarry are already being charged under the fetal assault laws, right?

They are already going to jail for having miscarriages and stillbirths when those prosecuting decide they caused either - from drug use, primarily. Though that was never the intention of the original law. It was to protect women in abusive relationships - to protect them and their pregnancies.

And in countries where abortion is illegal, women who miscarry or have a stillbirth are being charged with murder, with the prosecution claiming the women intentionally terminated their pregnancies.

All a state has to do is grant a fetus personhood and then women can be charged with murder. Don't really have to make a fetus a person legally. Just claim the miscarriage was actually an illegal abortion and charge the woman.

Grant a fetus personhood and women can be charged with all kinds of crimes already on the books.

No need to expand the courts or expand the police force. The system is already in place to arrest, indict, and try women.

And they will - because they already are.

Don't have to believe me. Look it up yourself.

[fightforfreedom]

23. Right, I am on your side. What you are talking about is going to grow in size.

The courts, police have limited resources. Are they now going to investigate every miscarriage? How can you manage, afford that?

[Solly Mack]

37. They always find a way to make life worse for people they don't approve of.

Just ask black and brown people.

[LisaM]

20. But Prohibition fuelled the growth of organized crime.

Yes, Prohibition ultimately failed. But its implementation had horrendous side effects.

[fightforfreedom]

25. Exactly, that's my point.

[dsc]

26. actually Prohibition did succeed in cutting alcohol consumption

the reason it failed is that the cost of doing so was an explosion in organized crime that resulted. But casual drinking all but disappeared during Prohibition.

[fightforfreedom]

27. I don't think so. Lol.

[dsc]

30. history disagrees

the amount of alcohol consumed in the US plummeted and most of that was casual drinkers not drinking any more. Alcohol consumption was massive prior to Prohibition. Again, there were clearly costs involved, and alcoholism was certainly not deterred by Prohibition, but the amount of alcohol consumed fell drastically.

[yardwork]

42. Alcoholism dropped quite a bit during Prohibition.

Rates of cirrhosis of the liver plummeted and didn't climb back up until after WWII.

Your point is correct.

[fightforfreedom]

62. People were making booze in their bathtubs.

How could they measure alcohol consumption when it was illegal?

[Hortensis]

36. Agree. The collateral damage before is the cost of electoral fecklessness.

In a just world, it'd fall on those who brought this on. That sweet, silly 19-year-old child weeping in front of the Supreme Court that her country didn't love her probably didn't have a chance to vote yet.

[yardwork]

39. There will be no facilities offering abortion in many states.

Affluent women will not be affected. They will travel to states that allow abortions. But poor women, teens (and younger), and women under the control of abusive partners won't be able to travel out of state. They won't be able to access care.

[Irish_Dem]

44. Yes exactly.

Well to do women will not be affected by the ruling.
Poor and young women will.

[yardwork]

46. The well-off Republicans make sure they aren't inconvenienced.

Country clubs will probably have out-of-state referral lists for their members.

[Irish_Dem]

48. Also private boutique physicians who do routine D and Cs.

After a friend pees in a cup to get a negative pregnancy test.

[yardwork]

50. Yep.

[anarch]

45. we should bring back prohibition too

or maybe let states ban the playing of musical instruments, or maybe ban any kind of medical procedures at all--like, make Christian Scientism the law of the land and require that everyone submit to the will of God if they are sick, and rely only on faith-healing. As long as we're just letting laws be based on religion and all....

[demmiblue]

49. Oh, god lawd.

[Model35mech]

54. I agree it will fail. It will be unenforceable.

Just as in liquor prohibition, the wealthy and elite will bypass the ban through travel and deceptive medical practices

The bans, by state and federal government must be documented to be unenforceable and productive of harm.

The hypocrisy of that will stand out, and of course, in the name of equity in medical care making that hypocrisy stand out should be part of the work.

But I'll lay down a caveat... I do not mean to -support- a gang-owned and operated black market abortion industry should be fostered or long tolerated as occurred with alcohol during prohibition, but rather to document its rise and its harms.

Moving in parallel to that effort, there must also be an effort for passage of a new amendment to the federal constitution which codifies Unalienable Sexual and Reproductive Rights of Individuals.

Constitutional Amendments are hard to pass and so we don't get them often. This one may have to be generated by the people meeting in state convention, rather than getting it through a minority obstructed congress. That will take much work. An amendment that would prioritizes a woman's choice over her reproductive state is needed but it will be a huge lift. And that must be built constructively from mobilizing cooperation among eager supporters, more than destructive confrontation politics with opponents.

[gab13by13]

55. Once again another, "everything is OK" thread.

[leftyladyfrommo]

57. It's not ok but we haven't lost. The fight is just getting

started.

I just saw where John Roberts said the court went too far.

[Karma13612]

65. But wasn't the ruling 6-3?

If he thought it went too far, why did he vote with the majority?

[leftyladyfrommo]

66. He didn't vote to overturn Wade but he did agree

with some parts.

His court is done. They are nothing but a rightwing political machine. They have no intention of doing their job. Their sole purpose is to advance their horrible agenda.

[Karma13612]

76. Thank you, and

Last edited Sat Jun 25, 2022, 05:30 PM - Edit history (1)

I agree.

This court is now in Kangaroo territory, and I don’t mean to insult Kangaroos.

I am absolutely devastated by this ruling. Embarrassed, sad, angry, tearful, depressed, scared, and demoralized. At 68, I am pretty sure the last part of my life in this country is going to be extremely sad and distressful.

There is a march today that I could attend. But it’s 40 miles away, gas prices are just shy of $5/gal, and it’s going to feel like 90 degrees F. We are in a MAGA/purple area of a Blue state with concrete abortion rights. The point of marching is to make our voices heard. Unless it makes the news, no one is going to give 2 $hits about the March up here. I can hear passers by saying, what’s all the fuss about? We’ve got ours. ….. Oh look! A sale on bathing suits at WalMart! Let’s go!!

I’ve been to two in the last 6 weeks and had good turn outs. I hope I hear later on that today’s is well attended and received. If it was closer, I would go. But I just don’t have it in me.

Edit at 5:28 PM. I decided to go the the march, and I’m glad I did. I just need to get involved again and commiserate with others. We marched, we chanted, we talked and planned. So so glad I went. It was hot, but I took Iced tea and kept hydrated and ‘sugared’!! Woohoo!!

[TlalocW]

56. I'm of two minds

There's the side of me that like most on DU is aghast at all this, and then there's the side that believes when republicans do something like this, they rarely consider the long term consequences, and that it's going to blow up in their faces. Unfortunately, women will suffer while that happens.

[lark]

59. Disagree, unfortunately!

There are enough crazy rw'ers who will push this into the courts to get their revenge on some uppity young (probably minority) woman, no police needed, no special court. No doctor will do an abortion in these places, it would put their and their families lives at risk, so they won't do it. They will move to blue states or quit doing the abortions. Pills (which the states will mske illegal) could be purchased, but if the post person turns you in you are done. Travel is safest, most discrete unless you know your postal person or shipments are done in plain packages.

It will be interesting when the pill and travel issue inevitably ends up at SCOTUS again - bet they will rule for christofascists and against women because they truly hate us and want to control our lives because they don't see us as fully human.

[ShazzieB]

60. Yes, it's going to fail all right.

I'm just upset about all the people who are going to suffer (and in some cases, die) before it's all said and done.

I hate Don the Con and Moscow Mitch more than ever right now.

[Karma13612]

61. I understand what you are saying.

But, the authorities will easily close the clinics by force and with padlocks if they have to.

It still forces abortions to be done underground. And that makes organizing and helping the women who need them very difficult.

[leftyladyfrommo]

67. We did it during the "60s and '70s.

We just found a way.

[ChicagoRonin]

63. I agree, but . . .

Banning abortion is ultimately unsustainable. It doesn't contribute any real economic benefits to the country. It will eat up increased law enforcement resources to enforce, burden individuals or families with expensive unwanted pregnancies, and put a strain on an already overtaxed and under-resourced medical system reeling from a bad funding model and the COVID-19 pandemic. It will unleash black market forces as well as violence.

But keep in mind, on average, 1000 Americans died every year during Prohibition from the effects of drinking tainted liquor. On top of that were the gangland violence and intimidation of average citizens. This lasted for 13 years.

[jalan48]

64. Said one lobster to the other in the pot of warming water.

[dalton99a]

68. It is working very well:

https://19thnews.org/2022/06/patients-abortion-clinics-texas-turned-away-roe-overturned/

https://www.axios.com/2021/12/12/abortion-pills-access-ban-roe-wade-supreme-court

[WhiskeyGrinder]

70. Why would they need to create an "anti-abortion police force"? The cops already exist, and neither

party can stop throwing money at them.

[Wounded Bear]

71. Sure, but many women will die during this "social experiment"...

[niyad]

74. Look at the devastation that prohibition caused.

[Act_of_Reparation]

75. That'll come as little consolation to the women who will die because of this.

I get it. People are hurting, and we want to be able to comfort them. Sometimes, the "silver lining" approach doesn't really work, though.

[Lettuce Be]

77. I do agree but how long with it take and how many will die meanwhile?

I'm mostly concerned about women's health in general. All miscarriages now suspect? Miscarriage is very common. Now doctors will be afraid to provide adequate health care? None of this seems legal and none of it was decided by any doctors or qualified medical professionals.

You are likely correct though. It is completely unenforceable without mass incarcerations and who is going to pay for that? Who is going to check everyone crossing every border? I think we should all start wearing pillows under our shirts for we are all pregnant now, so they have to keep track of us all.

[Orangepeel]

79. uhg. you miss the point

Of course there will still be abortions. the problem, to go with your analogy, is that they will be bootleg abortions that will harm women. Republican controlled states will shut down the legal avenues and make it significantly harder for women to get safe, convenient medical care.

[NickB79]

80. In the years Prohibition was law, a lot of people died though

Lots of organized crime, lots of turf wars and shootouts.

[ecstatic]

81. Women in Texas have been living under that for 10 months now

Some women have even been prosecuted. We have to be cleared about what is happening and what has already happened.