Should women continue to enlist in the military?

[StarryNite]

For one thing there is a high incidence of rape in the military.

For another thing, what would we be fighting for? Freedom? Hell, we don't even have the freedom to choose what is best for our own body.

[Native]

1. Excellent point!

[jimfields33]

18. Colleges too. Many rapes at colleges. Could be more then in the military.

6200 rapes in the entire military
Colleges don’t have these numbers available but it says 1 in 5 college females are raped. The hard numbers must be huge.

[TwilightZone]

2. We haven't fought for "our" freedom since World War 2.

And even that's arguable. We were largely fighting then for the freedom of others.

If not WW2, then we'd have to go back about 160 years.

[StarryNite]

5. Good points but...

protecting the freedom of other countries also helps to ensure freedom for our own because a united front is a stronger front. But now only half the population will have freedom.

Also, in the future we could be under attack.

Army...
"The Army exists to serve the American people, defend the nation, protect vital national interests and fulfill national military responsibilities."

[link:https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/us-army-overview.html#:~:text=The%20Army%20exists%20to%20serve,and%20fulfill%20national%20military%20responsibilities.|

[TwilightZone]

12. In the future, sure.

But when was the last time we were in actual danger of losing even part of the nation?

Hard to argue anything other than the Civil War. There were isolated incidents in WW2 - balloon bombs over the West Coast, etc. But the country at large was really never in danger of takeover or invasion. Nor is it now.

That being said, Pearl Harbor and other Pacific battles could be an argument in favor of WW2 being the most recent from a "defend the nation" perspective.

But Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? I don't see where our "freedoms" as a nation were ever at risk.

As for the Army's mission statement, I don't really see that as proof of anything. Of course they're going to defend their purpose for existence and their huge chunk of the budget.

[StarryNite]

14. " But when was the last time we were in actual danger of losing even part of the nation?"

Yesterday

[lastlib]

3. Why should women defend a country that doesn't defend them?

To defend their status as livestock? Eff that.

[Lars39]

4. The irony is that there will possibly be more females enlisting

due to poverty.

[StarryNite]

6. That's a good point too.

[StarryNite]

9. In Tempe, AZ in one location yesterday...

just one day...in one city...in one location...30 turned away.

"Since all seven Planned Parenthood health centers in Arizona stopped providing abortion services Friday, dozens of patients were sent home. “I know in our Tempe health Center location there were over 30 patients scheduled for abortions today and they all had to be turned away and other health center locations we also had to turn patients away,” said CEO Planned Parenthood Arizona Brittany Fonteno."

[link:https://www.azfamily.com/2022/06/24/2-providers-arizona-suspending-abortion-services/|

[Lars39]

10. The fear those poor women must have felt...

just heartbreaking. All their carefully thought out plans and arrangements to be replanned. And what of those women really trying to get back before an abusive SO became suspicious? I hope everyone is ok.

[StarryNite]

11. What about the ones who chose to end the pregnancy

because the baby will be malformed with many health issues? Maybe they don't even have insurance to pay for all the medical needs of a healthy baby let alone one that is unhealthy from the beginning. Will the anti choice crowd be rushing to adopt babies like that? I seriously doubt it.

[Lars39]

13. In that video with Anna Navarro, she pointed out

that there were already 420,000 children in foster care, waiting to be adopted.
There are so many reasons, so many scenarios…these republicans just don’t care. They just want control.

[StarryNite]

15. Exactly!

[Ananda62]

7. As a female veteran

I served as a JAG officer overseas from 1990-1994 (during the Gulf War). I was proud to serve and, as base prosecutor for 3 years, I only tried one rape case. However, I no longer recognize this country. People’s rights are being stripped away. Fascists are getting elected. Blue states are wondering about seceding. For those reasons, plus the risk of being stationed in a state with abortion restrictions, I wonder why any left-leaning person - man or woman - would want to serve.

[Thomas Hurt]

8. The christofascists would love to see that. Just another benefit of over turning Roe.

[Irish_Dem]

16. Why should women risk their lives for a country that refuses to give them equal rights.

A country which hates women and murders their children as they sit in classrooms.

The US is not a country worth fighting for any longer.

[StarryNite]

17. I know.

[keithbvadu2]

19. Libertarian website Lew Rockwell is not too keen on Christians joining the military.

https://democraticunderground.com/100215928974

"The goal of any responsible American parent these days is to keep the daughter off of the stripper pole and the son out of uniform"

Libertarian website Lew Rockwell is not too keen on Christians joining the military.

I'm not too keen on them.

https://tinyurl.com/y39s22cc

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2004/10/laurence-m-vance/should-a-christian-join-the-military/

[Wounded Bear]

20. It's an idividual choice, of course...

I see the logic on both sides. As a veteran from the Vietnam era, I made that choice. Over the years I've come to realize that things aren't so black and white with questions like this. I don't disparage anyone who chooses either way.

[StarryNite]

23. Oh, I don't disparage one for either choice either.

I'm about choice, that's the whole point. I just wonder if the fact that we have lost our choice makes fighting for a country that doesn't want us to have choice and doesn't even respect life is really worth putting your life on the line for anymore. After all, we are only a "free" country for part of the population. You have to be a certain gender and a certain color to be considered worthy of all the freedoms.

[haele]

21. Yes. There's just as high a rate of rape in the military as there is in college.

There are just as many reasons for women to enlist/get commissioned as there are for women to go to college or trade school.

But for one thing, in the Military, it's getting harder and harder for the higher ups to sweep rape or sexual harassment under the rug because unlike in private or public institutions of learning, the military is under pretty constant oversight from Congress and they're always being watched. And the military has to provide sexual harassment/rape diversion training and survivor/reporting support that is separate from the command structure -and linked to Civilian Law Enforcement. Rape and any sort of Sexual Coercion are prosecuted under the UCMJ; there are serious repercussions when a man (or woman) is charged, whether or not it's by the Military or by Local/Federal Law Enforcement.

In the 1990's, as a reservist CPO, I was a witness in a Courts Martial under the UCMJ in a Sexual Harassment/Coercion case that ended up with an O-4 being asked to retire without benefits, and then going to trial in a Civilian court afterwards for 2nd degree Assault and Rape.

There are a lot more resources for women in the military regarding their reproductive autonomy than there are for most women in college or university - or in the average private workplace, for that matter.

Haele

[StarryNite]

22. So do you think a woman in the military who conceives

from rape would have a better chance of having an abortion if that was her choice?

Don't read that as snarky, I'm really asking because I don't know the answer.

[haele]

24. Yes, a woman has a better chance for an abortion in that particular situation.

Pregnancy is a military readiness issue, and the choice to go through with a pregnancy is a major investment that the DoD has to put money aside for. Not only that, pregnancy of dependents and any complications from that pregnancy is also a readiness issue.

The only issue concerning abortions in general that currently is in place is the Hyde Amendment (which does have exceptions for rape and incest as well as maternal health since 1993) which the military currently gets around by allowing military members to go off base for surgical abortions under TriCare.

As of the time the draft overturning of Roe v Wade came out, my sources tell me the DoD has already started considering working with the VA (which does not operate under the Hyde Amendment) to expand Abortion services there as an interim stopgap to protect military members and their dependents because, again, the right to to choose to go through a pregnancy or have an abortion is recognized as a readiness issue in the Military.

I know the taxpayers spent about $400k to train me for my military job between 1979 to 2000. Probably another $400k in the admin to deploy me on my reserve weekends and annual 3 weeks in the 1990's. If I got pregnant and had to miss a year, that's time and extra money to replace me during those deployments.
That's a lot of money even now.

So yes, military women and female dependents have previously been able to access abortion services pretty easily up till now if the base clinics or hospitals could not provide abortions.

Haele

[StarryNite]

25. Thanks!