To those criticizing people who are looking for a way out of this, now official, "shithole country".

[niyad]

You have absolutely NO idea what people may have endured, are enduring even as we type. How much they may have already put into the fight. What their personal circumstances are. Those of us who can still fight, will. Some are exhausted, worn out, ill. . . any number of things, and just cannot fight any more. Do we turn our backs on them??? That is extremely disappointing to hear.

[wryter2000]

1. I don't know where the critics live

I live in Oakland, CA, in Barbara Lee's district. I will not judge what anyone else decides to do about this situation. It's easy to fight from where I am.

[niyad]

2. And it is easy for someone like me, who has no family, absolutely nothing they can hold over me.

[SheltieLover]

3. Agreed!

[niyad]

6. Thank you!

[SheltieLover]

7. Ty for sharing your wise insights!

Ps - I would never criticize anyone for attempting go escape the United States of Extortion, or any other lifestyle choice for that matter.

[Ferrets are Cool]

4. Aren't we fighting over CHOICE? Living where you wish is a choice too.

Hell, if I could, I would move elsewhere. I don't like America any longer.

[niyad]

5. Exactly!

[Magoo48]

27. Like you, I've been butting heads with "the other side" for a long, long time.

I encourage my children and grandchildren to keep their passports up to date. I support any moves they want to make, implicitly.

Here in OC ca. is my home port. I make my stand here. If the fascists ever take over, I’ll fuck with them for as long as I can, regardless of how progressives decide to play it. Perhaps at some future point in time, the left coast here will be part of a new nation, I probably won’t see it, but it’s thought provoking.

[SheltieLover]

8. Absolutely!

[Ferrets are Cool]

11. Howdy

Rough week for us. First the SC ruling, then that afternoon finding out wifey has her 3 type of cancer to fight. We are driving 4 hours on Thursday to see other doctors who are more closely involved in the treatment of this one ( I don't even know what it's called).
They are telling us it is treatable, but we won't know for sure until after Thursday.
Hope all is well with you.

[SheltieLover]

13. Omg!

I hope your wife is ok!

Yes, it's been a hell of a week, but nothing so personal here, thankfully!

Healing vibes on thd way to you both! 💓💓💓

[niyad]

17. Sending vibes for the very best possible outcome. Your DU family is here for both of you.

[Ferrets are Cool]

42. Thank you my friend

[electric_blue68]

41. Yikes, here's to the best of Successful treatments.

[Ferrets are Cool]

43. Thank you very much

[Texin]

23. For almost all of the past 5-1/2 years, I've dreamt of moving to Vancouver.

Or Victoria would also be blissful. Unfortunately, my 80 year old still working CPA husband won't consider leaving Texas. Or at least he maintained that until about two months ago, and asked me if I'd really like to move to California. Of course I would, but I told him how expensive it is to live in SoCal, which is the only place in CA that would be acceptable to me. I realize I'm contradicting myself, in that Canada is about as much if not more expensive to live as CA, but it's possible to rent in both places, so why not relocate? I'd get the hell out of shithole Texas.

[Irish_Dem]

9. Almost all Americans have immigrant ancestors who came to the US for a better life.

How can we criticize folks here in the US who want to do the same thing?

[niyad]

10. Exactly!!!

[hunter]

36. My ancestors all left shit holes across the Atlantic in the 18th and 19th centuries...

... some of them just ahead of the English hangman.

Our entire planet was originally inhabited by humans who walked, ran, and sailed away from trouble.

"Opportunity" and "a better life" are often euphemisms. Imagine all the families who have fled Ukraine...

My last immigrant ancestor was a mail order bride from Scandinavia to Salt Lake City. She didn't like sharing a husband so she ran away from that place as well.

[Irish_Dem]

37. In two generations since my grandparents landed here, the US has become a shit hole country.

Irish grandparents systematically starved by the British.

For women and LGBTQ, there is going to be plenty of trouble here in the USA.

I love that story about your mail order bride ancestor.

[samplegirl]

12. So many of us have been

trying to push back republicans for years now.
Personally myself since 2003.
It really gets exhausting watching my state go Red.
They have taken more and more control with each Republican administration.
People can no longer sit and do nothing. With whatever is left inside each and everyone of us… now is not the time to give up!
Discouraging as it is, we must fight back with every thread of our being.

[niyad]

14. I have been in this fight for nearly 60 years, and I can understand how exhausted and frustrated

people are. Those of us who can still fight, will. But I support each person's personal choice,.

[treestar]

15. Yes, it is not even possible for most people

and not even needed - I could see getting out of a shithole state.

But this is a chance to pay more attention to state politics! We should help progressives in red states on the state level if we are in blue states.

States are better republics, too - no electoral college crap, and the state Senates perhaps more proportioned to the population. There are chances in some of the states for a victory. Some may be purple and there's a chance to stop the antichoice laws.

[Sogo]

21. +1000

[gldstwmn]

16. +1000

[Hortensis]

18. My criticism isn't for leaving out of choice, it's for imagining

things are anything near so bad it's time to run away. Like any decision based on faulty reasoning and poor information, which I believe this would be for almost everyone, and of course on anger and anxiety, some are likely to really regret their choice. Not all who wanted to return would be able to, or able to return to the prior standard of living. That's very common.

Also scary likely would be seemingly stable nations going bad, requiring further migration -- sometimes really running. If the situation imagined for America happened, it'd be very bad for many other nations whose their freedoms and wellbeing are tied to ours. Btw, what would happen to NATO and every other reciprocal security and trade association around the planet that we belonged to?

That said, if it ever became so bad that Americans actually needed to escape, most doors around the world that are currently open would slam shut. They'd be joining hundreds of millions running from other nations. And, let's face it, most people in good destination nations already think we should stay and fix our problems that tend to become problems for them. BUT, that worst-case scenario would at least be a reason that really doesn't currently exist to have a bug-out option in place, or to add to a list of positive, well thought out reasons for going someplace nice.

I'll get back to DU on this if I have to pack up my Jewish husband and run, IF DU still exists and I dare use it of course. Itm, I don't believe agreeing with people that leaving America because of the current political reverses is sensible is quite the good thing some mean it to be.

[MyMission]

19. Thank you!

I haven't seen posts or commented on thoughts or plans to leave the US. However I have been thinking about it much more seriously since this decision was revealed.

I'm 60, but alone in the world. It's a big world. No spouse, siblings, or kids, except 2 fur babies. I want to and will continue to vote and advocate and fight for democratic ideals, but I see the direction we are heading and don't have a good feeling about my golden years in this country. Considering my options, wouldn't do it for a number of years yet, if at all. People have been moving around the globe forever, after all.

Interesting thoughts about what causes or inspires a person to pack up and relocate to a new country, or even a new city or state. I spent my first 41 years in NYC, last 19 here in western NC to be near my mom. It's a big deal for me to even consider moving. My mother left Canada on her own, moved to NYC and left 25 years later with my dad to move here. I admired her bravery.

[dameatball]

20. Maybe I don't pay enough attention, but is there really a lot of criticism on this issue? Emotions

are ragged and it's easy to fire off a comment one way or another. I do think most of us understand that some people have just had enough, just as I have stated I am not going anywhere. I don't see any massive divide here really.

[treestar]

22. people still come here asking for asylum

and still will.

Overreaction. Doesn't make other countries better.

Even ones that look good don't have the First Amendment - anything could happen there.

[wnylib]

24. We have part of the first amendment.

But, the freedom of religion part has been eroding steadily and the SC ruling on Roe just smacked it down even more. The Evangelicals and Catholic Church have imposed their religion on everyone now, with help from the SC.

SC is invalid now as far as I'm concerned.

[treestar]

26. the SCOTUS did not decide the case

on those grounds. Either case. There are non-religious arguments for not allowing abortion. It happens to be evangelicals who pushed it, but there are religious people who are pro choice and there may be some atheists who are against choice.

I'm bringing up that other countries can seem fine and then go very wrong - how many times have we seen the comment that Germany had a grand history or poetry and music and art and education and science and then still look what happened.

That is what makes the First Amendment freedom of speech the best thing ever. Doesn't matter how bad it gets here, we can always mouth off and try to change it.

[wnylib]

39. I know that there are religious people

who are pro choice. I am one of them. So is the denomination that I am a member of, as well as 2 other denominations that I am familiar with.

The SC gave non religious reasons for overturning Roe. But the influence of religious zealots among "conservatives" in the Republican party is strong.

I am also aware of German society prior to the Nazis. My maternal grandparents were immigrants from Germany when it was still ruled by kaisers. My grandmother's sister lived with my family when I was a child. My mother's brother served in the US army in WWII and spent 2 years as a POW in Germany.

The fascists in Nazi Germany merged religion with politics to enhance the image of divine authority and destiny among the people. So did the fascists in Spain. It is happening here.

[Hekate]

25. Good points

[Ford_Prefect]

28. Along with reaching the ends of tolerance and stress, some are running out of money

while the Congress and Senate millionaires refuse to consider any consideration of how bad it really is.

Friends of mine recently decided they could better afford retirement elsewhere south of the border where medicine, housing, and other necessities were not being priced out of reach by Hedge Fund investors.

[Native]

30. And most of those countries have better healthcare systems.

[Ford_Prefect]

31. Just stay away from the Cartels...and the Tourist areas.

[treestar]

44. It may not apply to one who isn't a citizen

but I have heard of poorer people retiring more comfortably in third world countries. Though something could happen to make those countries unliveable - there's a risk of that.

For instance, someone from Iran had told me that before the Revolution, Iran was really nice. People could live on Social Security comfortably. There were American restaurants and American clubs. Mild weather. There were a lot of retired Americans there. So it worked out - until then it didn't. But it may not always happen. It's just possible.

[Native]

45. I've researched a lot of great places, and it is very eye opening.

We really have become a shithole country.

[dflprincess]

29. Yesterday I told my niece that if things don't go well in November

She and her wife have to get serious about leaving.

[brooklynite]

32. Ciao all...

...who are leaving.

I choose where to live based on the political rights they offer me, and I'll be staying and working to protect them.

[TeamProg]

33. I'm not SEEING ANY criticism of people who are considering leaving the USA.

Are we talking about the same thing?

[niyad]

40. This OP would not have been necessary had there not been such criticism.

[48656c6c6f20]

34. Absolutely, and the Cubs suck ass

Yeah that's for you.

[hadEnuf]

35. I really get some people just having enough and wanting to leave.

And I don't blame them.

But given my stubbornness I'll be dipped if I'll let these fanatical right wing bastards run me out of my own country.

Our parents, grandparents and even some of us have been through rough times. The 1929 stock market crash and the ensuing 1930's. The rise of Fascism, WW2, the McCarthy, years, Vietnam, Nixon and Watergate, the early part of the Reagan years, etc., etc., etc.

Now it's our turn with Trump and the RW fanatics. The slogan "freedom is never free" goes both ways.

[Irish_Dem]

38. Gay couples will be bullied and harassed. And so will their children.

And their children could be murdered in cold blood by a white male with a military grade weapon.

If I were younger, I would leave so my children could be safe in school.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

46. I feel 25-30 years older than I am thanks to what's going on in my life

There are times I feel just plain worn out after half a century of fighting. There are moments where leaving sounds wonderful... But on the flip side of it, there's dealing with the financial issues. And it does help that I'm in California, which is now a pretty-damned-blue state, unlike earlier in my lifetime. Of course, though, it took California time to evolve to where it is now on LGBTQ issues and other important issues. And if the California of today was like California in the 80's or 90's? Yeah, I wouldn't be real thrilled being here right now...

I can understand the frustration and fear and pain of those saying "Fuck it. I'm outta here." I've been there myself.

I also can certainly understand those saying "I'm tired and scared and I'm done fighting."

We have one life to live. Once it's over, it's over. And I cannot and will not judge someone for what decision they make on whether to stay or go - no matter what side they come down on.

Whether it's staying in a red state or the US, or moving to a blue state or another country... Ultimately, people need to do what feels right to them.

[niyad]

47. With you with every word!