A Religion in Schools Story from the Not So Distant Past

[MineralMan]

While my high school in California did not not have prayers in the classroom back in the early 60s, it still had a Christmas concert every year. I had a reputation as a bass/baritone/tenor vocalist with a wide range and a big voice at the time, so I frequently ended up standing in front of an audience singing.

In my junior year, in 1962, I was asked to sing a solo at the Christmas concert at the school, and given my choice of what to sing. I chose the Schubert "Ave Maria," since I had always wanted to sing it. It's a great piece of music. However, the music director for the concert said, "You can't sing that. It's too Catholic." That seemed strange to me, but I was just 16, so I shrugged and decided to sing "O Holy Night," instead. That choice was just fine.

Both pieces of music were deeply religious, of course. Neither would be allowed now at a public school "Winter" concert. But, in my small town high school, in a town where at least a third of the population was Hispanic and Catholic at that time, it was strange that my first choice of music was "too Catholic" to be performed. I have thought about that contradiction in logic many times during my life.

Anyhow, we often see bigotry and prejudice around religion. We're seeing it right now in the SCOTUS decision to kill the Roe v. Wade decision. While many Christian denominations and other religions don't object to a woman's right to choose, the Roman Catholic Church and a number of Protestant denominations vehemently object to that.

So, "Ave Maria" was too Catholic at my high school in 1962. The right to choose abortion is too Liberal Protestant these days, it seems. Same story; different songs. That is why the founders of the United States of America deliberately forbade the country from having an official religion. I guess only three of the Justices get that.

[dsc]

1. Both would be permitted

Both songs have musical appeal such that they are not solely or even mostly religious

[MineralMan]

2. Actually, probably not.

While both pieces of music are well-loved, both also have an unmistakable religious theme. A decidedly Christian one, at that. Neither has even a shade of secular content.

Since those days, and just four years later, I became an atheist. I still have performed religious music many times after that, for their musical value. However, not in government buildings nor schools.

My point here is that even within Christianity, there are strong feelings about what is appropriate and not appropriate, depending on which denomination of Christianity is acceptable. That argues strongly against the association between government and religion, it seems to me.

[dsc]

11. I teach in the south

And I have gone to many a concert at school and I have heard Mary Did You Know and many other such pieces at them

[MineralMan]

13. The South is not everywhere.

I'm not surprised, though.

[MineralMan]

3. On a side note, I have sung "O Holy Night" many times

around Christmas time. On one occasion, I sang it in three languages - French, English, and Russian. I did the Russian translation myself. I was roundly criticized after that performance by a man who said, "We speak English here. Sing it only in English."

I responded to that criticism by informing that man that the original lyrics of the song were in French, with the title, "Cantique de Noël," and that the English version is, itself, a translation.

[shrike3]

4. Catholics used to be targets of the Klan, second-wave.

What happened in your hometown does not surprise me in the least. We were the only Catholic family in a rural white area. My father wanted horses, and that was reason enough to tolerate what went on. A few of the local ladies came over to welcome my mom to the neighborhood. One of the first questions out of their mouths was, what church we were going to attend? When they learned it was the Catholic Church in a neighboring town, they got up and left and never came back. We were "them Catholics" (I'm quoting) We'd be taunted on the way to school and on the way home. The bus driver shut it down, but then we got a new driver. This guy would sail past our driveway, say, oops, you have to walk. Maybe a tenth of a mile. Then it was decided we would not be picked up or dropped off at our house. We would have to catch the bus about a half mile from home. (Many people, including Catholics and even a nun, refused to believe this actually happened. It did.)

Harry Truman vented in his diary regarding Israel and the behavior of some of its officials: "It's like they're bettering the instruction." (I'm paraphrasing) A obvious reference to Shylock's "Has not a Jew eyes speech?" in The Merchant of Venice. Sometimes I feel the same way about the American Catholic Church. Obviously, many Catholics have gained power, and it seems they are bettering the instruction. They seem to think they have become part of the club: they have not. Evangelicals have made it plain that Catholics and Mormons are not real Christians. If those Evangelicals do attain full power, they will not want to share.

The American church has gone down a very weird path. It is only eight percent of the church total, and in some ways the rest of the church is moving on without it. Two thirds of the church is currently third world, one of the reasons the Vatican so supported the Paris Agreement. Its people are being affected by climate change in real time. Meanwhile, the U.S. Catholic Conference of Bishops dismissed climate change at its last meeting and said the top issue was abortion. Much of the USCCB hates Francis: a couple years ago they actually tried mount a coup: it was laughable, everyone else in the church ignored it. Francis has publicly said a schism between the American church and Rome may happen. If it does, the world church will simply shrug and move on, I've the feeling.

[MineralMan]

5. Oh, yes. The Christian Right Was Anti-Catholic, Until Abortion Became an Issue

In my home town, though, the reason was more centered around the Hispanic nature of Catholicism in that community. There was a long-standing deep prejudice against Hispanics there, despite their making up one third of the population. Or, maybe because of that. Since the local Hispanics were mostly Catholics, that prejudice included anything having to do with Catholicism.

I could not sing that song because "it was too Catholic," but it was fine to sing a different religious song at Christmas time. Very strange. It seemed so to me at at the time, but I was not quite old enough to muster up an argument then.

[shrike3]

6. Prejudice against Hispanics does not surprise me either.

There were no people of color where I grew up. I used to joke that we were the people of color. (I'm Irish.)

There was one Jewish boy in our high school class. He kept it a deep, dark secret and no one found out about it until after we graduated. Smart guy.

Some of the greatest music on earth is religious in nature. I'm talking about music from other cultures, too. Surely it can be enjoyed by just about anyone regardless of creed.

One of my good friends is Jewish. She is starting to get a little nervous. I can't blame her, and there's not much I can say.

[MineralMan]

9. Yes. We humans seem to need someone to hate at all times.

Strange stuff that sits in the primitive parts of our brains, that hatred of "the others."

[shrike3]

12. I'm starting to think it's in our DNA. Chimps are tribal and violent.

We share most of our DNA with the chimp.

[MineralMan]

14. Yes, that's it. We still have evolutionary archaic

stuff in our brains, clear back to the beginnings of vertebrate life. We can think out way out of it, but often don't, unfortunately.

[shrike3]

16. I have wondered if science may progress to a point where we can target that archaic stuff

in our DNA and somehow "edit" it out. Of course, that would open up a whole other can of worms.

[MineralMan]

17. No, not really. Those parts of our brain also include

the autonomic nervous system, without which we cannot live. We are products of our evolution. The basics can't be changed without losing our ability to survive.

[shrike3]

18. Oh well. It was a thought. n/t

[shrike3]

7. I guess Southern Baptists used to consider abortion a "Catholic" issue.

Until they realized they could make hay with it, perhaps.

[MineralMan]

8. Well, abortion was illegal pretty much everywhere

until 50 years ago, so, they didn't have to think about that. With Roe, though, they aligned with the Catholic Church for that. Now, we're hearing about the Christian Right wanting to do away with contraception, as well. So, I guess the Southern Baptists should all just convert to Catholicism and head for Mass on Sunday. Somehow, though, I doubt that will be happening. They still quietly hate the RCC, and the Pope, in particular.

[shrike3]

10. Oh, no, they would never, never do that.

Don't forget, Catholics aren't really Christian. All Catholics are going to hell. But so long as they get prayer back in school and women's reproduction choices voided, their so-called allies are perfectly fine with them going there.

[shrike3]

15. What amazes me is that Catholic pro-life activists work side by side with people who feel

nothing but contempt for their faith.

Reminds me of that joke: "But I never thought the leopard would eat MY face," sobbed the woman who voted for the Leopards Who Eat Faces party.