General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGoogling "Can the Supreme Court be sued? Or can individual Supreme Court Justices be sued?
The answer essentially asserts it's impossible.
Question on whether or not a Supreme Court Justice can be charged with any criminal offenses, (I infer that to mean Capitol Crimes and other Felonies included)... Answer: They can be charged, prosecuted and sentenced, but they do not lose their seat on the bench.
The ONLY way a Supreme Court Judge can be removed is to first be impeached by the Senate, and then subsequently be removed .
I see that as a very serious flaw.
Does anyone else view it the same way?
Response to msfiddlestix (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
WiVoter
(909 posts)I think thats a pretty good question.
They can only be impeached
msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)Saves their asses every time.
SYFROYH
(34,172 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,190 posts)which advises a president on his appointments. It was assumed Justices would be older and wiser and patriotic, but what we have is a country where Congress is selected by corporate money, presidents are beholden to interest groups and/or corporations, and they select and confirm Justices. So the power that put the Justices in place - the power filtered through the executive and legislative branches - still have the power to remove Justices, but on paper only. 2/3 is an impossible barrier. It's happened extremely few times, like once or twice off the top of my head, and one because he was a raving drunk.
The Constitution is a clockwork, geared system, but they goofed on SCOTUS. Term limits, limiting the number of each president's appointments, limited by age both on the lower and upper end would all be sound checks to greatly reduce political influence on the Court. But ... you know, changing it is more difficult than removing even one of them.
msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)But that institution needs to be repaired and reformed..
oh. wait. need a sjper majority to make that happen.
Which might be possible in another century, but not in our remaining life time.
malthaussen
(17,204 posts)The alternative would be removal at pleasure, which is far more likely to cause problems. What we are seeing today is the unfortunate consequence of this, one that was considered to be highly unlikely. Congratulations to our society for producing some of the most improbable political consequences in many fields that have ever afflicted a democracy.
There are no guarantees. You pays yer money and you makes yer choice. All we can do is go with the most likely scenario, and hope to be flexible enough to deal with it if the shit hits the fan.
-- Mal
msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)i see that as a serious flaw.
obviously, you don't and you've explained yourself perfectly in the earlier post.
MarcA
(2,195 posts)and the interpretation of the Constitution while advancing States' Rights. If the suits were successful it would be an in absentia decision and only enforced if said jurist set foot in or had property in that State.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)And just where do you think the next level would be?
Yeah, the Federal Court system.
msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)I am intrigued.
onenote
(42,714 posts)Imagine how quickly Alabama or Texas or some other state would gin up a criminal case against a liberal Supreme Court Justice so as to get them booted off the Court so a Republican president could name a replacement.
cynical_idealist
(360 posts)Any changes promoted by Dems may be twisted and abused by the pukes
in future administrations
msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)that would automatically be forced to vacate.
But apparently, not. which I see as a glaring flaw.
Marthe48
(16,975 posts)that I've been thinking about when I think of the 6 unelected, ungoverned, unprincipled thugs who turned the supreme court into their pulpit:
Where the French women spit in the glasses before they serve champagne to the nazis. I feel that way about the 6 despots sitting ont he court.
msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)Marthe48
(16,975 posts)It was a good movie, drama. I liked the cast
msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)Sympthsical
(9,076 posts)If they could be sued or taken off the bench by prosecutions, it would be a shit show. Every partisan and their dog would be gunning for the justices for all offenses real or imagined. The system just wouldn't work.
The checks in place are the President appoints, the Senate approves, and Congress can remove.
Now, the fact Congress increasingly abdicates its various responsibilities due to partisanship and a lack of willingness or desire to make hard decisions due to elections always being around the corner has worsened over time. People look at the Court, but I am always far more in awe of just how much power Congress has let the Executive accrue for itself over the past sixty or so years. These people don't want to be responsible for anything a voter might say boo to.
When you read about Congress in the 19th and first half of the 20th Centuries, you see a body that very much kept its role as a coequal branch of government firmly in mind. They didn't have the kind of deference you see to the Court and the Executive. They were proactively protective of their constitutional role, rights, and prerogatives.
All that said, I would happily support something like term limits for justices. This "Power forever!" philosophy at the heart of Washington is killing us. Not just the justices, but Congress itself. Are people really telling me, we have to have the same leadership over and over, and that's the best we can do? That's madness to me. People hate this word, but we really have become a gerontocracy.
There need to be limits on this stuff.
One thing I'll note. As long as I've been a politically aware adult (about twenty years now), the Court has always been a largely partisan institution. Liberal justices vote liberally, conservative justices vote conservatively. Sure, we had people like Kennedy who would sway one way or another, and it provided some balance.
But it was always going to be a contest, and we never cared when we thought we could win it. If we had six liberal justices who reliably voted the way we wanted, these Court discussions would be non-existent. We'd be all, "That's just how the system is!" Well, we didn't win the contest. After decades of jockeying, the Right got their iron majority first.
We played that game, we lost. What to do about that, I don't know. Just keep voting, I guess. But the way the Court works isn't going to change. Even in all these conversations, we're still angling with the same old game. "Let's get partisan liberals on the Court so they can vote the way we want."
We're happy with how the Court functions when it serves purpose. When it doesn't, well, then it's suddenly a crisis.
But unless someone's amending the Constitution next week, Congress is the check against judges on the bench. It will have to be taken up with them. So it'll never be taken up.
Although I imagine a murder would be a pretty quick path to impeachment. Potentially bribery as well.
msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)the aspect of what I see is a flaw, which is not partisan or political.
Which is that a Supreme Court Justice convicted and sentenced for a criminal offense cannot be removed from the bench, without first being impeached by the Senate for those crimes.
That is the issue I find seriously flawed.
The obvious reason sits before us currently.
Sympthsical
(9,076 posts)There is no automatic constitutional mechanism for removal from these offices outside of death and term limits.
Congress has to expel members unless there's a 14th amendment situation. The President has to be impeached.
It would be like the Wars of the Roses. Once the bar is lowered for people to overturn authority, people with even a little bit of power would go at it with a will. It would cause the system to devolve and the chains of authority to be broken.
The entire legitimacy of the government would crumble. I know people say it's illegitimate now, but people say things. There is potential for a whole lot worse in ways they cannot imagine and are not imagining when they agitate for these things.