why i think today's shooting moves the ball.

[mopinko]

they're calling this a chicago shooting, but that is totally wrong.
highland park is a far north suburb. it's about halfway to milwaukee from where i am, on the northern edge of the city.
the reason ppl spend insane amounts of money to live in places like this IS.TO.BE.SAFE.
to have access to the big city. to jobs and culture and all that, but far enough away from all the supposedly rampant crime.
(blue cities are not the worst for crime, rural red states are.)
i'm already hearing people say- we never thought this could happen here.
now you know.
what are you going to do about it?

[leftieNanner]

1. Moves the ball?

If Sandy Hook and Uvalde didn't move the ball, then this won't.

Wish it would. I understand your point.

[mopinko]

2. glaciers move an inch at a time.

but at some point, they let go.

[leftieNanner]

6. Good analogy

Especially since a glacier in Italy (I think) let go yesterday.

[mopinko]

17. yeah, why that's top of mind.

[MyOwnPeace]

12. SANDY HOOK...............

How in the name of whomever you call your 'Divine/Spiritual Leader' could you let THAT happen and NOT DO A F**KING THING????????

I have lost all faith in our citizenry AND government.

As long as $$$$ runs the Congress, we are just 'targets' for their sponsors.

[cilla4progress]

31. This is true

and infects all 3 branches.

The root of all evil.

[Chainfire]

20. Ain't that the damn truth!

A society that accepts the murder of their children as a fair cost to pay for "gun rights" is too far gone to govern themselves.

The gun violence is a symptom of a failing society, not the disease. We will only get relief when we put the Fascists in government back under the rocks that the slithered out from under. Then, and only then, can we deal with the gun issues. We need sane leadership and what we get, overall, is something quite different.

Look at the human waste that we send to govern us. Jordan, Johnson, McConnell, Cruz, and the series of "Gs" Graham, Gosar, Gaetz, Gomert and my personal favorite, MTG. It is our fault, we, as a people, haven't done enough. We won't know what "enough" is until we get there. Hint: voting and complaining is not enough.

[Cosmocat]

22. Right

Even before the SC went full on shit show, this would have been a fart in the wind.

Now, and when the completely solidify power in DC, we could have a couple mass shootings a day killing dozens of people and they will force everyone to carry guns at all times while hunting down gays to imprison or kill them.

We will be forced to live in their alternative reality.

[moonshinegnomie]

41. one thing about politics is money talks

highland park and its surrounding towns have huge amounts. they are among the richest towns in america

[North Shore Chicago]

3. Until we have sensible gun laws

AND enforce the ones already on the books.

NOTHING will stop another one, and another one. Plus, after trump normalized incivility and provoked violence I don't see it going back any time soon.

Humans really are a sick species.


Hello my southern neighbor!

[calimary]

30. I'd rather have "TAKE ALL the guns AWAY" laws.

I’d settle for taking away ALL the mass-murder machines. WAR weapons - that DO NOT belong in civilian hands. PERIOD.

[PTWB]

32. Handguns?

[calimary]

49. You know what, my friend? The way I'm feeling right this minute,

my answer would be yes.

I lost two friends that way, awhile back. The two of them were close friends as well as relatives. And everything was great until that one day.

They got into an argument. And it evidently accelerated beyond all self-restraint. And there was a handgun in the house, within easy reach. And in a heartbeat, she grabbed it and “settled things” with him. And then, with her mom having heard the gun shot across the house, ran, frantic, to where she’d heard it, screaming her daughter’s name. Which was when her daughter stepped behind the door and shot herself.

And we were all stunned into silence and utter shock. I will NEVER forget that day. That phone call from a bereft mutual friend to deliver the horrible news. I’ll NEVER EVER forget that.

Something died in me that day: any sense of “understanding” toward anybody who feels he/she is entitled to own any damn guns and/or as many damn guns as desired. I have no sympathy or empathy or patience for that point of view. No more. No longer. No got.




UNLESS… I can have my two friends back. Alive, joking, laughing, sharing, commiserating, being friends. I’d be VERY happy to shut up about guns in that case! Instantly and forever. I’d make that deal with anybody, anytime, anywhere.

[H2O Man]

4. Recommended.

I hope so.

[Emile]

5. They will blame violent video games.

That's what they do.

[mopinko]

18. ya know, all that crap is paper thin now.

they cant say it, but even they dont believe it any more.

[RockRaven]

7. You ever heard of Newtown, CT? Same median income as Highland Park, IL....

And Parkland, FL has a median income even higher than those two.

Did those earlier two incidents move the ball appreciably? This shit happening in richer neighborhoods doesn't change anything. Those who refused to act before will still refuse to act now.

[MyOwnPeace]

14. And Columbine ain't no slum either!

[mopinko]

19. actually, they sure did. esp sandy hook.

moms against gun violence has moved the ball a lonnggg way.

[RockRaven]

21. Really? What outcome/metric are you referring to?

[mopinko]

34. do you think we would have even been talking about passing a bill after uvalde

w/o the activism that started w sandy hook?

[RockRaven]

37. That bill is as strong as wet toilet paper. It's pathetic. An embarrassment to our country that

that is all we have done. I don't count that as moving the ball at all. But mileage may vary, I guess.

[qazplm135]

39. that bill is what we in the legal world

like to call, de minimis.

Now, I don't blame Dems for it, because it's the best they could get from Republicans.

But if it's moving the ball, it's like going from first and ten to second and 9.

[MyOwnPeace]

47. You're being a 'homer' official.........

I see it a more like 9 1/2 - at best!

[milestogo]

8. Michael Jordan had a home there.

Home to some very wealthy people.

[Frasier Balzov]

9. No more parades, but plenty more guns and bullets.

If Americans are forced to choose between armed anarchy and a thorough pacification of the public, which do you think they'll choose?

[npk]

10. American culture embraces violence

We have just been reaping what we have been sowing for decades.

[brewens]

11. Tucker will claim AntiFa attacked Independence Day. I hope they identify the shooter. Usually

they aren't that smart. Maybe this time it was a real pro that made a clean getaway? I would suspect some skill at disguise and plan to change clothes if that's the case.

[LizBeth]

13. Columbine. Not the richest, but wealthy.

[JI7]

15. Columbine, Parkland, Newtown were similar type of areas

And People in those areas are already supportive of gun control and vote blue.

The problem is at the national level and red states and gun nuts consider these areas to be elitist, global Jewish areas they see as the enemy.

[LeftInTX]

16. Na...Maybe at one those RTL Crisis pregnancy centers

Maybe at a Mega Church..

Still that church that was shot up didn't do anything. They were all a bunch of Trump-loving rednecks and still are. Even the pastor's daughter was killed and they remained gun-toting Trump-lovers afterward...Forget that.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shooting

[KY_EnviroGuy]

23. Very iconic photo and local news link....

Photo credit: Brian Cassella / Chicago Tribune

For more photos and current coverage, see:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-highland-park-shooting-fourth-of-july-parade-20220704-ai4yuthlqfac7ljmv5zj2tiybe-story.html

Highland Park shooting: 6 dead and 2 dozen others likely shot at parade by gunman, who remains at large
By Jake Sheridan, Katherine Rosenberg-Douglas, Gregory Pratt, John Byrne, Steve Sadin, Karie Angell Luc, Rosemary Sobol, Jeremy Gorner and Lisa Schencker
Chicago Tribune
Jul 04, 2022 at 3:34 pm

Snip...

The shooter, a white man between 18-20 years old with long black hair, who was last seen wearing a white or blue shirt, opened fire from a rooftop with a high-powered rifle and targeted spectators, according to police. He remained at large as of Monday afternoon.

Highland Park is an idyllic suburb nearly 30 miles north of downtown Chicago bordering Lake Michigan. In 1998, Vanity Fair said the largely white and Jewish suburb “has the feel of a gated community without the actual gates.” Michael Jordan made his home there for a time when he was with the Bulls.
----------------
The Lake County Major Crime Task Force, Highland Park police and the FBI are leading the investigation, but “there are dozens of police agencies on the scene and our federal partners are deployed as well,” according to police.

The shooter had not been located and people in the area were being advised to “shelter in place.” Highland Park police patrol Commander Cmdr. Chris O’Neill said the shooter remained unidentified and was considered armed. A rifle was recovered from the scene.

KY..........

[ramapo]

24. Sorry. No. Naive thinking

That ball isn’t moving until a lot of Republicans are voted out of office

[mopinko]

33. the ball needs to roll over them.

and it CAN. remains to seen if it will.

[pnwmom]

25. And right across the border in Michigan the gun laws make it easier for crazies. n/t

[shrike3]

53. He didn't have to go any further than Indiana, I'm afraid.

[LeftInTX]

55. He's 22 or 23

I believe he can purchase firearms in Illinois.
Additionally, he lived in Lake County, which is the same county that Kyle Rittenhouse is from

[shrike3]

59. Good point. Gun laws in Illinois are not nearly as rigorous as people think they are.

[Evolve Dammit]

26. no words anymore. Not the country I grew up in. I guess those are words. n/t

[duckworth969]

27. You're kidding, right?!

Move the ball my ass! Nothing gets done about this shit, wake the hell up 😡

[mopinko]

35. way to introduce yourself.

welcome to du.

[MyOwnPeace]

36. Seriously 'duckworth' - welcome........

'Others' may think that glacial speed is proof of 'speed' - and in the meantime we have more and more and more and more dying for the NRA and a shitty reading of the 2nd.

[Traildogbob]

28. Looking at

The just released photo, how the fuck was he not a “bright” red flag. Look up deranged evil, this photo come up. Sr and Jr need to be arrested for bringing this asshole to the world. Looks pretty fucking “groomed.” By right wing.

[ancianita]

29. It moves the rich to move the ball where. What if they find out they're being caught up

in some random death theater. First the real death news is about a "shooter/sniper." Suddenly it's about Robert Crimo who police are "looking for." Seriously?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=747645

[qazplm135]

38. nothing

until people actually make gun control an issue they vote on.

Some do, but most don't.

Until we start making gun control, choice, and voting rights issues we turn out to the polls for like the right turns out for abortion, this will keep happening over and over again.

We have to stop fighting ourselves, and recognize that whether you are liberal or moderate or centrist or progressive or whatever you are, that together, we have a LOT more in common than the other side.

Whether it's AOC that gets in your craw or it's Sinema and Manchin, it doesn't matter. We can resolve those fights AFTER we remove these people from power at every level.

[relayerbob]

40. It won't

[USALiberal]

42. You must of not seem the other mass shootings!

[USALiberal]

43. Cap key not working??

[ToxMarz]

44. You got it correct in the first sentence.

The right wingers are calling this a "Chicago shooting".

That is all, right or wrong.

They have the explanation that frictionlessly fits their world view Sadly they can rest easier with that than facing the reality of what the true danger/solution is and reexamination of their ideology that they are WRONG!

[drray23]

45. it does not move the ball.

the milquetoast gun legislation that was just passed will allow the Republicans to say they already did something and that it's not effective.

[llmart]

46. I'd like some of what you've been smoking if you think this will "move the ball".

You know what will actually move the ball? People voting in massive numbers for all Democrats so that we can rid ourselves of the Republican menace that is ruining our country. We need vast majorities in both Houses of Congress, in governorships, and of course the Presidency so that we can dig in and write and pass the laws to get all of these weapons of mass killings out of circulation. Round them up in any way necessary and macerate the hell out of them.

[MyOwnPeace]

48. Beautifully stated.......

[calimary]

51. THIS. Most assuredly and definitely and unquestionably THIS.

[mopinko]

54. that would be the ballgame of which i speak.

i think it will get people to vote. and it will be clear who to vote for.

[llmart]

56. Americans have very short memories.

WE need to get people to vote, not just sit around hoping they will "get it". If ever we needed to use our voices loud and proud, it's now. We need to drown them out with our passion for saving our democracy. I will not be intimidated by them and keep who I'm voting for to myself.

This is war! No more playing nice.

[mopinko]

58. i have no idea why you think i would disagree. that's exactly the ball.

[soldierant]

50. "(blue cities are not the worst for crime, rural red states are.)"

Something that Arthur Conan Doylle already knew, and had Sherlock Holmes say

If course he was talikng about England, not America - and alsi aboutcrime lore domestic than mass shootings - and his rationale was that in, for instance, city slums, you are living so close yo your neighbors that it's far harder to keep a secret than it is when your nearest neighbor is two miles away. But it still is not totally obsolete as a theory.

The quote is from "The Aventure of the Copper Beeches" -

“Do you know, Watson,” said he, “that it is one of the curses of a mind with a turn like mine that I must look at everything with reference to my own special subject. You look at these scattered houses, and you are impressed by their beauty. I look at them, and the only thought which comes to me is a feeling of their isolation and of the impunity with which crime may be committed there.”

“Good heavens!” I cried. “Who would associate crime with these dear old homesteads?”

“They always fill me with a certain horror. It is my belief, Watson, founded upon my experience, that the lowest and vilest alleys in London do not present a more dreadful record of sin than does the smiling and beautiful countryside.”

“You horrify me!”

“But the reason is very obvious. The pressure of public opinion can do in the town what the law cannot accomplish. There is no lane so vile that the scream of a tortured child, or the thud of a drunkard’s blow, does not beget sympathy and indignation among the neighbours, and then the whole machinery of justice is ever so close that a word of complaint can set it going, and there is but a step between the crime and the dock. But look at these lonely houses, each in its own fields, filled for the most part with poor ignorant folk who know little of the law. Think of the deeds of hellish cruelty, the hidden wickedness which may go on, year in, year out, in such places, and none the wiser.

[calimary]

52. Dayum.

[soldierant]

61. Yes. Way ahead of his time.

[mopinko]

57. yup. i've thought of that often.

i grew up in a burb at the end of the commuter line, but my family has deep roots in this city.
when i moved back, my family thought i'd lost my mind.
but this is exactly what i think.

[soldierant]

60. Me too. He doesn't address the situation of

the "smal town where everybody knows everyone else," but I think often that just means they know their name and possibly recognize their face - it doesn't mean they actually know them

[mopinko]

62. eggzactly.

it's so hard to know another person, what happens behind closed doors.
so much easier to hide when there are fewer sets of eyes.

[Samrob]

63. I talked about this in an earlier post. The reason really good stats are not kept by law enforcemen

is because it would shatter long-held stereotypes about the scary black people. Yes, there is way too much crime in the inner cities and black on black crime really hurts me and scares me simply because my grands and most of our family live in major cities across the US. But GUNS and easy access to them are our major crime problem today. AND guns in the hands of renegade police need to be studied and reported on too. I may be wrong but the most dangerous people to our nation and law enforcement are white males of any age.

Police will shoot and kill an unarmed black male or female in the back or in the bed more quickly than the will shoot an armed white shooter. And white gangs even gather to take on law enforcement in some rural areas. I have never heard of a black gang do this.
As more and more of these mass shootings come to the communities majority white venues, perhaps something substantive will be done about gun control?

[mopinko]

64. i'm old enough to remember the day the cops shot hampton and clark in their beds.

and to know that the reason chi has 'the toughest gun laws in the country' is because the white power structure was scared shitless of the panthers.
and that the reason chi remains awash in guns is because the cops look the other way.

i rly think when it starts hitting rich white people, things change.