If the same old group kneecaps Biden like they did Obama, Clinton even Jimmy Carter

[Peacetrain]

I am going to need CPR.. seriously.. I am just about to stroke out .. I got so damn mad at the hell hounds who kept wanting to put Obamas feet to the fire... or the Clinton haters when she got the nod (who me thinks was the same damn group going after Obama).. who I blame quite frankly for the mess we have with the loss of ROE.. of course the republicans did it.. but when you have people who keep spiking the tires with nails.. our Democratic vehicle for progress is going nowhere!!

[MineralMan]

1. It seems like I'm detecting some of that already.

Very disappointing, to say the least.

[elleng]

3. 'Price' of a 'big tent,' I guess.

[Peacetrain]

4. I have been hearing it also.. and just finished watching a discussion on CNN

and had to just turn it off.. honest to GOD MM..

[elleng]

2. With you, Peace.

[Peacetrain]

5. With you too elleng!!

[Just A Box Of Rain]

6. Until the morning after his tragic murder, I supported RFK in 1968.

I was too young to vote, but not too young to volunteer stuffing envelopes in advance of the CA primary.

My heart broke.

It broke again when the "Dump the Hump" movement ensured the election of Richard M. Nixon.

Oh, when will they ever learn?
Oh, when will they ever learn?

[Progressive dog]

7. I think the attempt might have already started.

Hopefully it won't work this time. Maybe, after Roe, the group will realize what they are losing as social programs get cut and supreme court justices reinterpret the Constitution to take rights from women. I'm trying to remain optimistic.

[mcar]

8. Never fails, Peacetrain

A midterm election with a Democrat in the WH and the far left starts doing whatever they can to suppress the Democratic vote, under the guise of "constructive criticism."

I had hoped that this time they'd be more cognizant of the dangers of Rs taking Congress and state offices over again, but apparently not.

Same damn group, with new recruits.

[2naSalit]

9. They seem to be...

All about getting their end result without thinking through what it takes to get there from here.

[mcar]

10. One begins to think they don't really want progress

[Peacetrain]

11. I know mcar..I know

Just once.. if we could just stop tearing down our own...

[mcar]

12. I really thought they'd have learned after

the horrors of the Trump years. How could they not have learned?

[betsuni]

15. "Earn my vote" "Holding feet to the fire"

Saying everything's about policy but the "constructive criticism" consists mainly of attacks on character, calling people shills and corrupt and weak and so on.

[Hekate]

13. Just had a little set-to with someone who defended Jill Stein & Susan Sarandon on the basis...

… that we can’t go about disrespecting those to our left because reasons.

I pointed out that Jill S was photographed at the Traitors’ Dinner with Putin and Flynn, and that Susan S wanted Trump to win because he’d bring the revolution — and also that whoever financed Jill Stein’s campaign played the Electoral College like a pro.

When I left the conversation that poster was still defending them as friends we ought to cultivate…

My point is: they still live among us at DU, and the ones that took a hiatus will be back.

[betsuni]

14. Yes. Same old group even when they're new.

"But even before he was elected, I was driving with friends to a movie when the guy in the back seat, an old '60s radical, began ranting about how Obama was just a corporate shill, as bad as Republicans. My heart sank. I knew what this meant. I went online, and there they were, the baby-boomer radicals and their political descendants, all foaming at the mouth. ... It would take them a while, but they would make life hell for him. ... At a MoveOn meeting after his first midterm election, the few radicals there were crowing that they had given him a few dollars but had not worked for him -- he was 'such a disappointment.' Right. In two years, all he'd done was prevent another Great Depression, save the auto industry and pass Obamacare, the first big addition to FDR's agenda since 1965.

"As his second term ended, the radicals shifted into overdrive, and after eight years of sabotage, we lost by a hair. ... The remnants of the baby-boomer radicals had passed down to later generations their self-righteousness. ... Watching this unfold, I did my best to figure out how a small group of dedicated, well-intended politicos could repeatedly stymie the very change they wanted. Yes, it was due to overreach on their part. It was believing righteousness beats thinking."

Steven Stoft

And there is the answer to why they do it. That warm fuzzy feeling of personal righteousness and purity. Real progress is an afterthought, really. Nothing is better than something, just for the righteousness feeling.

[Peacetrain]

18. Just makes me so sad... give me strength..

is all I can say some day..

[Hortensis]

16. Michael Moore certainly is up to his old subversive self.

Of course. Whatever goes on in his head is incorrigible. He's far too much himself to change.

His recent "declaration" sounds okay at initial glance, although nowhere does it mention Democrats. His call for removing all Republicans from office (yes!) could almost make you forget for a moment that you're looking for poison you know is aimed at Democratic candidates and Party. Almost.

~ I will help to organize a massive Get Out The Vote drive amongst the millions who follow me on social media, listen to my podcast, and read my Substack column. I will join with others to tour the country. No candidate will get our support unless they sign a pledge stating they will vote to make Roe v. Wade the law of the land; make gerrymandering and voter suppression illegal; eliminate the filibuster; upgrade Obamacare to Universal Health Care for All; pass strong gun control laws; and end the police executions and racist incarcerations of Black citizens.

Moore knows Democratic leaders will determine our stand-together strategy and that there will be important tactical reasons why many Democratic candidates will not be able to associate with him, certainly not agree to give a hostile agent some Karl Rove-type power over them. Or campaign against our candidates by claiming they refuse to support legal abortion, etc. But those "who follow me" can combine with others to throw elections to the Republicans, as he knows well because he's been doing this and sometimes succeeding for over 30 years, including the outstanding "victory" of 2016. So this "declaration" is Moore's promise of more of the same for 2022 and 2024.

Between now and then will come the usual thousands of tepid comments and complaints about Democrats that often as not are delivery vehicles for Moore's special poison. I don't know why his claiming President Obama told Flint mothers to feed their children poisoned water still makes me so mad -- it's certainly no worse than so many other special deliveries. But, "Have you no decency, Sir?!"

He'll be there on the coming election eves as before -- likely pretending to be getting out voters by telling them at length that they're absolutely right that there's nothing at all to vote FOR, yada-yada, yada-yada, yada-yada, before finally saying that in spite of everything they should put their principles aside and hold their noses long enough to vote against tRump.

All in pursuit of the highest ideals, of course.

[Peacetrain]

19. I had to give up on Moore years ago..

I do not understand him

[betsuni]

21. He seems insecure, too easily influenced by other people.

From comments he's made over the years I think he has a complex about not graduating from college and thinks Democrats are too intellectual and elite. It's silly. I don't understand him either.

[Hortensis]

22. :) But "too intellectual and elite" is STANDARD anti-establishment agitator talk.

Bless his insecure little heart.

Except, it's a huge theme among RW and LW populists alike. (So what's MOORE doing with it, aside from making money and keeping his brand on the shelves?) Knowledge is the destroyer of populist movements, so they have to vanquish respect for those who can explain at great length just what we have and have to lose with our government. It's just one of many catchphrases used to deliver toxic emotional reactions through the gut route.

I sure don't understand these creeps, but that's a question for psychologists. There IS something very wrong with people who claim the same (albeit better!) ideals Democrats do but have long-term proven records of discouraging voting for Democrats -- helping elect the sole alterative, the White Male Christian Party that's been fighting equal rights for women and minorities and kicking apart the foundations of our republic for decades now.

Politically, Moore types sell their special mixes of inspiring-dispiriting hypocrisy to niche markets. They're adjusted to satisfy consumer moods responding to events, but the poison pills typically include stimulating and informative sounding discussion of high ideals and inspiring possibilities wrapped around takeaways of disaffecting criticisms and conclusions that Democrats don't really believe in what they say and won't deliver.

We've all seen it a million times. Any genius here is in sneaking it past our own intellectual defenses. But not to mistake his promise to tell supposedly millions of supporters not to vote for Democrats who don't sign his Karl Rove-style pledge for anything but more of the same-old. They of course won't, and he will use that for all he can get from it.

[LiberalFighter]

17. They don't know when to keep their mouths shut. Or at least temper it.

But no. They have to get all in a b about it. Not just the so called very left but also the likes of Manchin.

Neither understand that if they want to get their agenda thru they all need to work together. They can't oppose everything without losing themselves.

[Peacetrain]

20. Precisely. the never ending opposition to everything.. so well said