Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

demtenjeep

(31,997 posts)
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 10:49 PM Jul 2022

what is your plan? How would you react? Could you hold it together? ---shootings

for years I have practiced classroom routines with my students.

I feel pretty confident in my classroom -what I would do/react/say

I think I would be strong for my classroom babies and make sure I protect them.



BUT...if I were in a store, church, parade, mall I think I would flippin' lose it.




My hubby asks what is the difference. I feel the difference would be that it is my duty and my heart to keep my babies alive so my mind would be on that.


the other times, it would just be me and if I were alone, I might just crumple.


hubby said we will work on a plan. He carries so with him I do not ever worry.




do you have one?

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
what is your plan? How would you react? Could you hold it together? ---shootings (Original Post) demtenjeep Jul 2022 OP
Sort of Joinfortmill Jul 2022 #1
Run hide fight. WarGamer Jul 2022 #2
I used to work in very rough neighborhoods. Because of that, I experienced a few Scrivener7 Jul 2022 #3
yeah, every time I've been close to gunfire, it was all over before I could have reacted anarch Jul 2022 #37
I do know that in each of those incidents, if I had reached for a gun or shown Scrivener7 Jul 2022 #39
He carries? Frasier Balzov Jul 2022 #4
no-he isn't stupid demtenjeep Jul 2022 #7
Where do you live that you would fear walking the dog in the dark in general? Withywindle Jul 2022 #20
A multiple-choice quiz. Straw Man Jul 2022 #13
I'm choosing fewer guns overall. Frasier Balzov Jul 2022 #18
How will that help you in the moment? Straw Man Jul 2022 #22
Make enough of them and pour them into society, along with ammunition. Frasier Balzov Jul 2022 #23
Interesting. Straw Man Jul 2022 #24
Your ability to shoot back is the same as his or her ability to shoot at you in the first place. Frasier Balzov Jul 2022 #25
So it's outright bans, then? Straw Man Jul 2022 #26
Virtue signaling is a right wing term to disparage moral people. Frasier Balzov Jul 2022 #27
Absolutely not. Straw Man Jul 2022 #40
I'll try to be more constructive and come up with something practical. Frasier Balzov Jul 2022 #44
This may be news to you ... Straw Man Jul 2022 #47
I taught K-6 for over 15 years and did drills BigmanPigman Jul 2022 #5
drop to the floor WhiteTara Jul 2022 #6
Run, hide, fight DetroitLegalBeagle Jul 2022 #8
I have no idea how I would react. Texasgal Jul 2022 #9
No - every situation is different. Jirel Jul 2022 #10
Yes, this tracks Withywindle Jul 2022 #21
I suspect we will start seeing more shootings during fireworks displays & occasions tblue37 Jul 2022 #42
I was night manager of a pizza restaurant that got robbed by three armed men Doc Sportello Jul 2022 #11
I'm pretty sure I'd react differently if I was with family members as opposed to alone captain queeg Jul 2022 #12
I'd rush the shooter. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #14
If you run don't run in a straight line zig zag Raine Jul 2022 #15
When I was a kid, the actor Dennis Weaver was the Assistant Coach of my Youth football team.... Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #29
That manuver would have saved a lot of lives during WWI Kaleva Jul 2022 #33
Interesting, he was smart and knew that could come Raine Jul 2022 #36
Sorry, but this immediately made me think of this. Xavier Breath Jul 2022 #30
"serpentine" ... LOL! 😂 nt Raine Jul 2022 #35
hahaha! Hey, gotta laugh sometimes! halobeam Jul 2022 #45
I've met my Berserker self. Not pretty. hunter Jul 2022 #16
We had active shooter training at work..run hide fight Demovictory9 Jul 2022 #17
Fight or flight is sn instinctive reaction Kaleva Jul 2022 #34
I've been around shootings before Withywindle Jul 2022 #19
I have been in one obamanut2012 Jul 2022 #28
Take cover sarisataka Jul 2022 #31
I know where the exits are in the stores I go to Kaleva Jul 2022 #32
I have no idea how I'd react. Torchlight Jul 2022 #38
It is always difficult to say what would happen. Caliman73 Jul 2022 #41
Having 3 combat tours under my belt, MarineCombatEngineer Jul 2022 #43
I have generally always been really good during the actual emergency alphafemale Jul 2022 #46

Joinfortmill

(14,428 posts)
1. Sort of
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 10:56 PM
Jul 2022

I'm retired. I go shopping early in the morning when there are few people around. I avoid crowds. I don't sit with my back to the door in a restaurant. I try to learn where the back exit is.

Scrivener7

(50,955 posts)
3. I used to work in very rough neighborhoods. Because of that, I experienced a few
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 11:04 PM
Jul 2022

of pretty close call gun incidents.

In each case, there was just no time to formulate and carry out a logical plan. I was simply lucky.

anarch

(6,535 posts)
37. yeah, every time I've been close to gunfire, it was all over before I could have reacted
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:22 PM
Jul 2022

Which obviously didn't matter since they weren't shooting at me...I'd like to think that if I had a second or two to comprehend what was going on, in some kind of mass shooting situation, I'd at least hit the deck pretty quickly. As it is, I don't go out much, and I try to be aware of my surroundings and stay behind cover as much as possible out of longstanding paranoia.

Scrivener7

(50,955 posts)
39. I do know that in each of those incidents, if I had reached for a gun or shown
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:26 PM
Jul 2022

a gun, I would be dead now.

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
20. Where do you live that you would fear walking the dog in the dark in general?
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 02:33 AM
Jul 2022

Most of these mass shootings happen in broad daylight in highly crowded public spaces, in areas that are generally coded as "safe." Parades, shopping centers, grocery stores, churches and synagogues, movie theaters, etc.

What exactly would a husband with a handgun do to protect you from this at night? What would anyone with a handgun be able to do against a shooter armed with a high-tech military weapon?

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)
13. A multiple-choice quiz.
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 12:48 AM
Jul 2022
He carries?

Does that mean he will shoot first and straighter?

This sounds like part of the problem to me.

We all know "Run, hide, fight," right? So when the first two fail, and it's time to do the third, would you rather be ...

a) armed
b) unarmed

-- ?

We were given active shooter training at my school and were told how many things can be weapons: chairs, desks, fire extinguishers. I found it highly ironic that the security professional who was educating us on all this was wearing a Glock on his hip.

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)
22. How will that help you in the moment?
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 02:44 AM
Jul 2022

It won't.

The word "proliferation" suggests a nuclear war scenario in which one launch will lead to the destruction of the world in a massive chain reaction. That's not applicable to the situation in question. When you are face-to-face with the active shooter, the number of guns in the society at large is completely irrelevant. If you have a gun, you might have a chance, and you might be able to save other lives even if you die in the attempt. If you don't have a gun (or similarly effective weapon), you have very little chance of saving yourself, much less anyone else.

The problem is not so much the raw number of guns; it's who has them and what they do with them.

Frasier Balzov

(2,654 posts)
23. Make enough of them and pour them into society, along with ammunition.
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:25 AM
Jul 2022

Distinguishing who you think should have them is what becomes irrelevant.

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)
24. Interesting.
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:29 AM
Jul 2022

Distinguishing who should have them has been the essence of gun control all along: permits, red-flag laws, background checks, etc. Are you suggesting that outright bans are the only viable way forward?

Please explain how the number of guns in the society is relevant to you in that moment when you are face-to-face with an active shooter. Take all the time you need.

Frasier Balzov

(2,654 posts)
25. Your ability to shoot back is the same as his or her ability to shoot at you in the first place.
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:50 AM
Jul 2022

All you're describing is an environment in which shooting faster, straighter and with more lethal firepower is our nation's highest value.

That's not a worthwhile goal. You really won't like living like that, and you're getting a preview of it.

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)
26. So it's outright bans, then?
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 04:32 AM
Jul 2022

That's what you advocate? "If there were no guns, no one would get shot" is a meaningless truism.

All you're describing is an environment in which shooting faster, straighter and with more lethal firepower is our nation's highest value.

Not at all. I'm talking about how you might have a chance to save yourself -- and possibly others -- in an extreme situation. It has nothing to do with values -- that's just virtue signaling.

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)
40. Absolutely not.
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 07:21 PM
Jul 2022

Last edited Fri Jul 8, 2022, 08:07 PM - Edit history (1)

The term "virtue signaling" can be used by and against both sides of the political spectrum. One might, for example, use it to criticize companies who tout the health or environmental virtues of their products -- "all natural," etc. -- when such virtues are either easily achieved or meaningless: "gluten free" marshmallows, for example.

I use it to indicate that your anti-proliferation stance offers nothing practical to the debate but merely serves to indicate your supposed moral superiority.

Frasier Balzov

(2,654 posts)
44. I'll try to be more constructive and come up with something practical.
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 08:29 PM
Jul 2022

Sit-ins at the lunch counter produced change in their day.

Nobody wants to join me and stage a sit-in at the firing range.

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)
47. This may be news to you ...
Sat Jul 9, 2022, 12:59 AM
Jul 2022
Sit-ins at the lunch counter produced change in their day.

Nobody wants to join me and stage a sit-in at the firing range.

... but firing ranges are not where the problem is.

BigmanPigman

(51,608 posts)
5. I taught K-6 for over 15 years and did drills
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 11:09 PM
Jul 2022

with them too. We never had any real emergencies and the only earthquake was 30 minutes after the kids went home. However, during other emergencies I found that I go into automatic mode amd I just instinctually act and fast. You probably would react the same way...clear headed and on autopilot. Little kids can run really fast and hide in small spots so they sort of have the advantage in that way.

DetroitLegalBeagle

(1,923 posts)
8. Run, hide, fight
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 11:27 PM
Jul 2022

What I do will depend on the situation. I have the unfortunate advantage of having already been shot at and fighting back multiple times. Unlike when I was in Iraq, I won't have a M4 or be wearing body armor, so if I can get my family and myself out safely, then I will. If no escape is possible, then finding a hiding spot, preferably one that provides cover and limited access(a lockable or barricadable door/entrance) between us and the shooter is the next priority. Finally, if no other option is available, fight back with whatever means I have, even if that means doing so in order to provide my family time to escape without me. I have not carried a gun since my very short stint working for the county prosecutors office. Recent events has had me rethink getting my carry permit again(I let it lapse and sold the gun years ago) and my wife is also considering getting trained and licensed as well.

Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
9. I have no idea how I would react.
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 11:30 PM
Jul 2022

I guess I would try to run to safety, I guess.

I hate that we are now in this type of position.

Jirel

(2,018 posts)
10. No - every situation is different.
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 11:55 PM
Jul 2022

For the record, I have been “in” two shootings, though not on a mass casualty scale like the parade incident. One was at a 4th of July fireworks display in Chicago over 25 years ago, and the other was a shootout between two cars on my block in Minneapolis 15-20 years ago, where both shooters succeeded and one crashed his car nearby us as he died. Though I already knew it before then, those incidents brought one thing home: there is no such thing as following a plan when bullets (and cars) are flying. All you can do is keep your head, and adapt.

In the 4th of July incident, it may have taken 10-15 or more seconds before a lot of the crowd figured it out that there were gunshots, not a bunch of stray fireworks. We were jam-packed in a city park with lots of large trees, hedges, etc. Some people started running (and tripping). Others walked urgently, since running in the dark over grass and shrubs where lots of people were packed in, really didn’t work well. I pulled my husband back behind one of the trees, and just waited and watched and listened. The shots did not continue (probably the police at the other side of the park dove in rapidly), and there was no point in being bowled over by half-panicked people. When the initial wave of running and falling was over with, and there were no more shots, we walked back out to the street that was now jam-packed with cops, along with a lot of other folks. How do you plan for that? You don’t know whether the shooter will be 20 feet away, or half a city block away. You don’t know what you’ll have to hide behind, or whether there will be a way to run safely. You don’t know whether the stampede may be more dangerous than the shooter. Hell, you don’t know whether you want to be running into a gaggle of fully activated Chicago cops. You don’t know where “a safe distance” will wind up being.

The second time was surreal. We were on the porch with a couple friends, and saw and heard the shooters just start to go at it as they passed each other at the intersection. We barely registered that they were firing before one car went screeching away and the other suddenly accelerated and crashed about half a block later. It’s not like you could plan for how to handle something like that. It’s happening so fast, the car is already crashing as you’re thinking, “Crap! I should duck behind this wall!” You don’t know if the guy who crashed is dead, or unconscious, or about to come out of the car with a gun. You’re only guessing whether you’re better protected crouching down behind the stucco porch wall, or having only air, or the glass and wood of the front door, between you and potential bullets as you’re trying to run inside and lock the door.

My point is, you have less than a split second to make a decision and do something, right or wrong. You don’t really have an idea of the level of danger, most of the time, unless you’ve just been hit or the person next to you has been hit. You know the old saying that no plan survives the first contact with the enemy, in war? It’s the same thing when you’re in a public place, and someone starts shooting. Literally all you can do is make the best guess about getting something between you and bullets, then taking stock of WTF is going on and what might get you out of harm’s way.

tblue37

(65,395 posts)
42. I suspect we will start seeing more shootings during fireworks displays & occasions
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 07:34 PM
Jul 2022

now that potential shooters realize many people will mistake gunshots for fireworks when they're expecting to hear fireworks going off.

Doc Sportello

(7,522 posts)
11. I was night manager of a pizza restaurant that got robbed by three armed men
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 12:00 AM
Jul 2022

Had a pistol stuck in my eye and got hit in the head with a shotgun. The one thing I learned is that nobody knows for sure how they will react in those situations. Lots of people, especially males, will tell others that they would do this or do that but it's just boasting. They don't know how they would react. One tough guy in the restaurant almost got us killed. I did as the robbers instructed.

captain queeg

(10,207 posts)
12. I'm pretty sure I'd react differently if I was with family members as opposed to alone
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 12:26 AM
Jul 2022

But every situation is unique.

Raine

(30,540 posts)
15. If you run don't run in a straight line zig zag
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 01:42 AM
Jul 2022

it makes it harder for the shooter to hit you. I heard an expert give that advice, advice I hope I never have to use. 🙏🤞

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
29. When I was a kid, the actor Dennis Weaver was the Assistant Coach of my Youth football team....
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 12:26 PM
Jul 2022

he taught us this "trick."

By zig-zagging while running away from someone with a gun it makes it extremely difficult for a shooter to take a bead on you.

We even practiced it with the second guy in line acting as the "shooter" (using our fingers as a gun) and that was a good demonstration of the difficulty of aiming at someone zig zagging randomly.

Typing this makes it seem a bit odd. This was late 1960s and we were living in a nice suburb of Los Angeles at a time when shootings were rare. And Weaver was a very nice and decent man--not some odd ball. And boy was he fast! He could zig zag like a master.

I wondered about why he taught us this trick over the years, and I think part of it was tapping in to the propensity of 9-10 year-old wanting to "play." He could have us practice football techniques, run drills with everything we had, and if we picked up a life-skill in the process it was a bonus.

Kaleva

(36,307 posts)
33. That manuver would have saved a lot of lives during WWI
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 12:47 PM
Jul 2022

and the Civil War. Matching or running towards an enemy in a straight line got many people killed.

Kaleva

(36,307 posts)
34. Fight or flight is sn instinctive reaction
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 12:49 PM
Jul 2022

Some will actually attack an enemy despite there being little to no chance of survival.

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
19. I've been around shootings before
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 02:23 AM
Jul 2022

the best strategy is to stealthily move behind something like a car or wall if possible and stay still.

The caveat is that the shootings I've been randomly adjacent to in cities in the 90s were mostly gang-related, with one or two specific targets, and the main weapons were handguns.

I don't think there is any real way to avoid being a victim of one of these massive shootings with military weaponry.




obamanut2012

(26,080 posts)
28. I have been in one
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 07:32 AM
Jul 2022

I was internally petrified. I lead people to safety and sheltered in place while it was going on. It was surreal and horrific, and we were sent to therapists who worked with combat soldiers. Think of that: we were so traumatized, we had to work with therapists who worked with combat troops with PTSD, and we were all adults. I cannot imagine what kids go through when this happens.

I am not giving any more details of the incident btw.

sarisataka

(18,663 posts)
31. Take cover
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 12:37 PM
Jul 2022

Get my family to safety, help others to safety. Confrontation is every other option has been removed.

Kaleva

(36,307 posts)
32. I know where the exits are in the stores I go to
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 12:37 PM
Jul 2022

That'd be Walmart, Dollar General, Tractor Supply, Ace Hardware, Lowe's, Target, Menards, Kohl's, a local grocery store and the two hospitals we go to. If it's been awhile since I've been to a particular store or other place, I'll first look for the exits to refresh my memory or learn where they are if I've never been there before.

I've told my wife that if we here gunshots, we'll move quickly towards the nearest one that is away from the shooter. As my wife hates stores, I'm usually by myself.

And as my wife and I are introverts, we don't go to public places where there are a large group of people.

Torchlight

(3,341 posts)
38. I have no idea how I'd react.
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:22 PM
Jul 2022

I think about and I know how I'd want to react, but I believe that in most critical situations, what we say we'd do and what we'd wind up doing are pretty far apart everywhere but our own imaginations.

I have zero idea what my response would be, and hopefully, will never know.

Caliman73

(11,738 posts)
41. It is always difficult to say what would happen.
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 07:27 PM
Jul 2022

Somebody once said, "Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the face". That is true. I have been in a few situations that were dangerous in my life. There have been times when I reacted defensively. There have been times when I got the hell out. There have been times when I have frozen. You can certainly try to prepare physically and mentally, and that may help. I know that in the military and sports, a lot of the training is on muscle memory, so that you can engage in certain actions in high stress environments, but some studies suggested that over 1/3rd of soldiers in firefights were not able to, or chose not to fire their weapons.

It sucks to have to say this but when going into a public situation, whether a mall, park, concert, etc... it would be a good idea to get very familiar with the exits and places to take cover.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,393 posts)
43. Having 3 combat tours under my belt,
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 07:43 PM
Jul 2022

I know exactly how I would react, I would try to do my best to avoid getting shot while getting the best description of the shooter I can, but if confronted by an active shooter with zero other choice, I would draw my weapon and defend myself and hope for the best outcome.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
46. I have generally always been really good during the actual emergency
Fri Jul 8, 2022, 08:56 PM
Jul 2022

I have a bit of mental collapse a few days after.

Which isn't helpful.

I may need to learn to decompress and not stay awake 34 hours.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»what is your plan? How w...