Dave Chapelle

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Let me preface my remarks by saying he is a tremendously funny man. He has a new special on Netflix about the naming of an art school after him in DC. He had attended it as a youth. When they first named after him he did a Q and A session with students who drilled him about his dragging of trans folks. A lot of them said as a result of that the school shouldn't be named after him. His defense was basically comedy is art and art should never be censored. Besides being a very funny man, among the funniest, he is a very smart man. He has to see how hurtful his words were. It seems his most vociferous defenders are MAGA or the MAGA adjacent who have essentially lost their war against gay folks and have found a new target in transgender folks.

[Geechie]

1. In response to the ridiculous defenders of "punching down,"

I found this in a Quora exchange:

‘That's not so much a “liberal” thing as it is a “don't be a dick” thing. The idea is that if you're trying to be funny for a living by picking on someone else, then go after people with more power than yourself: they can probably take it, and might need the reminder that they're not always right. (While the people worse off than you probably have enough problems as-is.)

‘Besides, kicking down tends to make for lazy comedy full of stereotypes and clichés.’

~ Daniel Nebdal

Nice way to sum it up.
[link:https://www.quora.com/What-do-liberals-mean-when-they-say-Dont-punch-down-Do-you-agree-with-it|]

[Johnny2X2X]

8. I partly agree

He's a dick, but comedy not punching down in the past is simply not true. The great comedians of all time made fun of everyone, that's kind of their thing. Richard Pryor made fun of disabled people, gays, and drug addicts. Eddie Murphy made fun of poor people and homosexuals. Lenny Bruce made fun of everyone. George Carlin targeted the establishment more, but he also made fun of all sorts of people. Comedy makes fun, it's what it does.

And the thing about comedians, is they've always had a history of making more fun when someone tells them they shouldn't talk about a subject. They used to jail comedians for talking about certain subjects like sex or race, comedians responded by talking about them even more. So don't expect people saying comedians shouldn't punch down to have the desired effect, in fact it's going to increase that type of comedy.

I think Dave Chappelle is using this backlash to draw more attention. He easily could be a little contrite and make the issue go away, but he's gaining from it so he's not. If I don't like what he says, I can tune out.

[Geechie]

11. Who said comedy didn't punch down in the past?

Of course it did, it just wasn’t as funny as that directed at oneself or the dominant power structure.

[leftyladyfrommo]

2. I just think the role of standup is to question everything.

Standups should be free to say whatever. That's their role. They make fun of our ridiculous side.

I follow a lot of stand up comedians. Some seem awful to me but I respect to put their views out there.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. I don't question his right to make fun of any group he wants.

I do question the wisdom and humanity involved in doing so.

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. Someone needs to point out our stupidity.

It takes a lot of guts to risk getting booed off stage.

So many stand ups have a lot of built up pain. That's where their comedic edge comes from.

If I don't like them I just don't listen or watch

[OneGrassRoot]

10. Is there specific "stupidity" you see...

here on DU that you're referring to?

Inquiring minds...

[EarlG]

4. Of course standups should be free to say whatever

It doesn't mean that people have to celebrate them when that "whatever" is hateful garbage. It also doesn't mean you have to respect them just because they put their views out there.

If I passed by some asshole who was standing on a street corner spouting transphobic bigotry, I wouldn't think, "Well I disagree with what this guy is saying but I have to respect him for yelling it at everyone who walks past."

Dave Chappelle is a rich, famous, and celebrated multi-millionaire with a huge fan base and a series of specials on Netflix. Now, after using that platform to repeatedly target trans people, he's whining about being censored because people don't want to name an art school after him.

That's not censorship. It's what happens when you say a bunch of bigoted crap and people no longer want to be associated with you.

[leftyladyfrommo]

6. To each his own. I don't believe in banning even awful

Books and I don't believe in censorship. Although I have to admit that i wish someone would shut Trump up.

[EarlG]

7. Who is censoring Chapelle?

He has the absolute freedom to say whatever he wants. And he does say whatever he wants. All the time. He makes millions of dollars doing it.

People also have the right to not want to be associated with his raging bigotry. Not celebrating someone isn't the same thing as censoring them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. You should be free to say almost anything you want with the emphasis on anything.

You shouldn't be free from the social consequences of doing so.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

15. None of us are, of course

We have become a society where so many people think what they say is the "final word" and is never to be questioned. They fail to get that the First Amendment works both ways. Someone can say something awful. We can then say "You know, that's a pretty fucking rotten thing to say."

The First Amendment means the government can't censor someone. It doesn't make people free from being called out for what they say.

Last time I checked, Chappelle is still free to speak and still collecting checks.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

13. Including people's very existence?

There is a pretty big gap between "humor" and "bigoted rants." He left that gap in the rearview mirror several miles ago. If someone's "jokes" blatantly dehumanize people - their rights, their existence, their dignity - it's gone too damned far. "Beet juice"? "Beyond pussy"?

And there are some things that should not be questioned. I sure as hell didn't find the picture of Roseanne dressed like Hitler removing a bunch of burnt gingerbread men from the oven to be funny either.

No one is censoring the bully. We're responding to his cruelty by calling it out.

(Edited to add): I have a lot of built-up pain too. Good grief, I could easily write 50,000 words about some of the pain and trauma and misery I've seen in my life. I'm a walking ball of neurosis and scar tissue and open wounds. In my line of work, I try to hide it with blatantly bad jokes. Most of those jokes at my own expense. Every so often, "picking" on someone else. However, when I resort to the latter, I also try to be funny and not hurtful at all. If I make a little joke at someone and they're hurt? I've fucked up. Period. It doesn't matter if I think the joke was okay. They didn't, therefore, it's wrong. End of discussion.

When someone is laughing at you and not with you, it's no longer comedy. It's bullying.

If Chappelle hurts that badly inside, maybe he ought to seek counseling instead of questioning people's very humanity.

I'm also sorry to say I find it hard not to read your responses with skepticism, considering some of the prior things you've had to say on trans issues.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

12. He sees how hurtful his words are... And he doesn't care

I'm sorry, but the man has made it clear for over half a year now. From doubling and tripling down on the hateful rhetoric, to "I will not be summoned," he has done nothing but escalate this repeatedly since The Closer, and rightfully being called out for The Closer.

There are so many ways he could've used this as a topic for humor. There are so many ways he could've brought up the trans community in a way to "encourage discussion." "Beet juice," "beyond pussy," misgendering Daphne Dorman, calling Lia Thomas a "man" and calling Lil Nas X a "slutty f**" are not the way to do so.

"Wow, she wears more makeup than Tammy Faye!" "Her wig has its own ZIP Code!" "Those shoes aren't meant for walking!" and stuff along those lines, hey... Ha ha. Funny. I mean, shit. Most of us have used the ol' "It takes a lot of paint to make a girl what she ain't" line from time to time. We're not expecting to be put onto a pedestal. We don't see us as above humor.

What he wanted to do instead is resort to downright dehumanizing, cruel statements. When it's difficult (if not impossible) to tell the difference between someone's "jokes" and the rantings of Fuckface Carlson, that's not humor. When you have Laura Ingrate applauding your "jokes," it's not humor. And not once has he stepped back. Not once has he shown any compassion or remorse whatsoever.

The very same Dave Chappelle who snapped because white people were laughing at his jokes about blacks now sees no issue in punching down on and attacking a vulnerable community.

No one is trying to censor the bully. We've responded to him exercising his First Amendment rights by using our own to call his ass out. He is a bigot. He is a bully. His humor is abusive and not funny. He has completely acted like an UltraMAGA - both in his initial attacks, and then ratcheting them up when he was called out. And if he feels discriminating against him is wrong (which, yes, it is) while he thinks he can discriminate against others, he's a hypocrite.

He has shown me a great deal about his character since last fall. I'll be blunt: I'm not impressed by it. At all.

Do unto others as you'd want done unto you, Dave. And maybe he ought to use that intelligent brain of his to think long and hard about the hurt he's inflicted upon people for several months now, and maybe think about how he would feel if someone did this to him.

[Elessar Zappa]

14. I agree with you.

I love most of Chapelle’s stuff but when he started going full speed at the trans community, I quit supporting him. His remarks go beyond humor into the hurtful.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. The most painful thing is he has a gift and he's using that gift for ill.

And it can't be for money because he walked away from a fifty million dollar deal with HBO because he felt people were laughing at his comedy for the wrong reasons.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

17. I casually followed him over the years

I can't say I watched everything he did or I was a huge fan. I'd catch Chappelle's Show here and there. And I enjoyed it. But he changed at some point and went from comedy that covered everything (including himself) to targeted cruelty to a vulnerable community. That's where he lost me. It could've been any community - Jews, Mexicans, Asians, whatever. I just can't cheer on someone who wants to inflict cruelty upon others for how they're born.

Maybe someday he'll wake up and realize what he's said and done. I don't know. As they say, you can lead a jackass to water but you can't make him drink. Until the day he fully understands the harm his "comedy" has done? He won't have me as a fan.