Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:08 AM Jul 2022

Another Way to Look at the Use of the "B" word to describe a man.

Use it on DU with reference to a woman, and the thread will be hidden by a jury.

Use it to define a man, and it is likely to be left on view.

Why? Because that word is treated as misogynistic when used to describe a woman. It is generally taken to mean that the woman in question is not a submissive person who keeps her opinions to herself. If a woman asserts herself, some will use that word to describe her.

When used to describe a man, it generally refers to a man who IS submissive and unassertive. Or one who is a coward.

That is why the word is seen by women as a slur on women in the first place, no matter how it is used. When applied to a woman, it means she is acting like a man. When applied to a man, it means that he is acting like the mistakenly stereotypical woman who is submissive and weak. In both cases, the word is insulting to women and reflects the attitudes of our patriarchal society.

It is an ugly word which actually describes a female dog, not human beings. That is the only use of the word that is not misogynistic.

136 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Another Way to Look at the Use of the "B" word to describe a man. (Original Post) MineralMan Jul 2022 OP
I think there is too much hysteria about words. LakeArenal Jul 2022 #1
I'm not being hysterical in any way. MineralMan Jul 2022 #2
You prove my point. I'm talking individual words LakeArenal Jul 2022 #11
+1 llmart Jul 2022 #19
Yes. LakeArenal Jul 2022 #24
Hear, hear! Jilly_in_VA Jul 2022 #30
Amen. llmart Jul 2022 #41
"Can we all stop being uptight about every single word?" FoxNewsSucks Jul 2022 #43
I recall a thread where someone was whingeing on about the word 'sucks' being misogynistic Celerity Jul 2022 #104
+1 BeerBarrelPolka Jul 2022 #105
That's right, FoxNewsSucks Jul 2022 #111
Yes, it has gotten excessive PatSeg Jul 2022 #66
Yeah, let's ban hysteria, hysterical, hysterically, ... dalton99a Jul 2022 #49
Exactly my point. llmart Jul 2022 #57
no more Def Leppard for you! Celerity Jul 2022 #106
+1 dalton99a Jul 2022 #109
Such a GREAT song! FoxNewsSucks Jul 2022 #112
it is one of those 'HYPER 1980's' power ballad classics, lolol Celerity Jul 2022 #114
Those were all excellent, FoxNewsSucks Jul 2022 #115
here is a wee bit different type of early 1980's tune with some serious cowbell, lol Celerity Jul 2022 #116
Yes, when something is extremely funny, PatSeg Jul 2022 #68
I would like to Rec this whole subthread ms liberty Jul 2022 #62
I didn't know about this debate and I just used "bitch." arlyellowdog Jul 2022 #3
Whether a word is funny or not depends on who is hearing or reading it, I think. MineralMan Jul 2022 #4
The problem is some don't consider context FoxNewsSucks Jul 2022 #27
+1 llmart Jul 2022 #47
Yes, I think we need to take into consideration PatSeg Jul 2022 #71
Using a gendered word as an insult is offensive. Period. Ms. Toad Jul 2022 #113
No. Not always. FoxNewsSucks Jul 2022 #117
See point #2 in my original post. Ms. Toad Jul 2022 #120
I think the wholesale condemnation of certain words.. quickesst Jul 2022 #44
Yes, and I've heard a black man use the n word to another black man. Neither was offended. BlackSkimmer Jul 2022 #85
Surely you corrected the man on his usage of the n word? BannonsLiver Jul 2022 #90
Oh, of course. BlackSkimmer Jul 2022 #101
... BannonsLiver Jul 2022 #102
Back atcha. BlackSkimmer Jul 2022 #103
Unless a woman uses it of course ... Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #5
It's quite easy to avoid using all of those gender-related insults, MineralMan Jul 2022 #9
What does the PC Guidebook say about using it in a context like this ... Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #25
Think about the use of it as a verb. MineralMan Jul 2022 #46
Jaysus... llmart Jul 2022 #50
✔️ LakeArenal Jul 2022 #70
My whole point earlier Jilly_in_VA Jul 2022 #87
+1 BeerBarrelPolka Jul 2022 #91
Words inthewind21 Jul 2022 #127
I BeerBarrelPolka Jul 2022 #135
I didn't even know that dick meant penis when you were a kid Polybius Jul 2022 #118
It did, though. MineralMan Jul 2022 #124
Look at the way the military uses it. milestogo Jul 2022 #6
Yes. Exactly. MineralMan Jul 2022 #10
Was there a sale on charcoal fluid? Sympthsical Jul 2022 #7
I don't know. I never use it. MineralMan Jul 2022 #14
As a kid, I always liked to see how high I could get the flames Sympthsical Jul 2022 #17
+1 Croney Jul 2022 #8
OP makes a great point Bobstandard Jul 2022 #12
Sometimes words like bitch can be empowering. It depends how you use it . I have a mucifer Jul 2022 #13
I've referred to mitch as Moscow's B... ecstatic Jul 2022 #15
Not handwringing, and I'm not telling anyone what to do or not do. MineralMan Jul 2022 #16
Bitch is used very casually among younger groups of people ismnotwasm Jul 2022 #18
I hate it when I am forced to think Jerry2144 Jul 2022 #20
Thanks. Thinking take effort, MineralMan Jul 2022 #35
Part of the problem for our side as we obsess over a little things like figures of speech Walleye Jul 2022 #21
Well, figures of speech carry a great deal of meaning. MineralMan Jul 2022 #37
That's a good point. Walleye Jul 2022 #51
My jaw dropped when I saw that video of Gaetz! IjustDontlikeRepugs Jul 2022 #55
You better believe it. There are still way too many think that way and talk that way. Walleye Jul 2022 #60
"He's an asshole." Talitha Jul 2022 #79
Hahahaha IjustDontlikeRepugs Jul 2022 #81
Everyone has an asshole (and an opinion) so nothing madinmaryland Jul 2022 #132
thank you G_j Jul 2022 #22
My pleasure. MineralMan Jul 2022 #26
Setting aside the B word for a moment. BannonsLiver Jul 2022 #23
Had he not incited the mob that then put him in fear, he wouldn't have been mocked. FoxNewsSucks Jul 2022 #29
Agreed BannonsLiver Jul 2022 #31
I must not have gotten to that one yet. FoxNewsSucks Jul 2022 #39
NO inthewind21 Jul 2022 #128
Totally BeerBarrelPolka Jul 2022 #130
Ask the people who are pushing it. BannonsLiver Jul 2022 #131
He's being mocked because he espouses "manliness" and "masculinity." MineralMan Jul 2022 #32
"Fear shaming"? Elessar Zappa Jul 2022 #34
He's lily-livered Jilly_in_VA Jul 2022 #89
Hey! BannonsLiver Jul 2022 #93
LOL BeerBarrelPolka Jul 2022 #94
Go have another bottle of scotch! madinmaryland Jul 2022 #133
Don't tempt me with a good time. BannonsLiver Jul 2022 #134
Hey there MM. I'd like to share a great paper on the topic, with many points to consider 🤓 Ziggysmom Jul 2022 #28
Very good. Thanks! MineralMan Jul 2022 #33
Like "Jello" "Bandaid" or "Kleenex" FoxNewsSucks Jul 2022 #36
I agree that we should be very careful about using gender-related insults. MineralMan Jul 2022 #40
Although I ForgedCrank Jul 2022 #38
Exactly. Which is why eliminating such loaded insults MineralMan Jul 2022 #42
+1 imaginary girl Jul 2022 #45
The anti-vulgarity society is up Triloon Jul 2022 #48
Democrats must purify themselves to perfection and wear 100% certified pure clothes dalton99a Jul 2022 #53
Thanks for contributing to the thread. MineralMan Jul 2022 #54
No Problem. Triloon Jul 2022 #97
+1 BannonsLiver Jul 2022 #63
+1 BeerBarrelPolka Jul 2022 #86
This message was self-deleted by its author traitorsgalore Jul 2022 #96
Virtue Signalling at it's finest... radicalleft Jul 2022 #122
Bingo inthewind21 Jul 2022 #129
Besides referring to women, men or female dogs, it can mean something difficult, panader0 Jul 2022 #52
Yes, it is also used in that way. MineralMan Jul 2022 #56
It's hard to insult anybody these days Red Mountain Jul 2022 #58
Not really, if you think about it a bit. MineralMan Jul 2022 #59
Priggish Lecturing (nt) ProfessorGAC Jul 2022 #61
I see. Oh, well... MineralMan Jul 2022 #73
Fair warning ... non-PC speech is referenced in this post. This stuff is not for the timid. Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #78
+1 BeerBarrelPolka Jul 2022 #88
if you have gay friends... bahboo Jul 2022 #64
Of course. BannonsLiver Jul 2022 #80
In Hawley's case I would go with weenie. It implies more that he is scared. LiberalFighter Jul 2022 #65
You can bet someone would find weenie offensive. BannonsLiver Jul 2022 #67
Ah, I found someone who is offended!!! PatSeg Jul 2022 #74
Dachsy would trample Hawley LiberalFighter Jul 2022 #75
Ha, ha, ha!!! PatSeg Jul 2022 #77
So would George Conway's corgis Jilly_in_VA Jul 2022 #92
What I am getting out of this thread rownesheck Jul 2022 #69
Some agree with my opinions. Others disagree. MineralMan Jul 2022 #72
I remember it during the custom van craze! gay texan Jul 2022 #76
Or your bitchin' Camaro. LakeArenal Jul 2022 #107
Man.... gay texan Jul 2022 #110
Can't always read the room before throwing out fighting words. Iggo Jul 2022 #82
I think about the seriousness of climate change and then read how offended some are by this jalan48 Jul 2022 #83
I can do more than one thing at a time. MineralMan Jul 2022 #98
+1000 Celerity Jul 2022 #108
Thank you. BlackSkimmer Jul 2022 #84
Yes. You're right. MineralMan Jul 2022 #99
I've never understood why it matters what word is used in an insult nini Jul 2022 #95
Language is a habit. MineralMan Jul 2022 #100
True, and I know I don't speak for all women nini Jul 2022 #126
I'd use the B word to describe MTG and Josh Hawley edbermac Jul 2022 #119
It's a slur whether used on a man or a woman. William769 Jul 2022 #121
Yup. Roisin Ni Fiachra Jul 2022 #123
Exactly. MineralMan Jul 2022 #125
Do you remember the few folks using "Rhonda", when referring MerryBlooms Jul 2022 #136

LakeArenal

(28,844 posts)
1. I think there is too much hysteria about words.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:11 AM
Jul 2022

But I understand that words can be more hurtful than a slap. Still individual words are too often parsed and analyzed.

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
2. I'm not being hysterical in any way.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:19 AM
Jul 2022

And, by the way, "hysterical" is also a slur against women. You can look that up, if you like. Here's a link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria

Given the number of insulting words available in the English language, a little thought will always find a suitable insult that is not gender-related, it seems to me.

Most people do not think about the underlying shades of meaning in the words they use, especially when using insulting words. They should think about that, I think.

LakeArenal

(28,844 posts)
11. You prove my point. I'm talking individual words
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:30 AM
Jul 2022

It happens all the time. My point isn’t about the word hysteria. I didn’t call anyone hysterical. You took the word hysteria and immediately focused on the one word. Changed the word and then called it a slur.

llmart

(15,552 posts)
19. +1
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:42 AM
Jul 2022

My son and I were watching a male comedian on TV and he was hilarious. At the end of the program we both said, "That show was absolutely hysterical."

It had nothing to do with a slur on women or a mental medical condition. We both knew what we both meant.

We all need to stop parsing every post and word on DU and focus on the big picture. Sometimes I get the impression that certain DUers are competitively trying to "outliberal" (I made that word up) each other in a way for them to feel superior in their liberalness.

Jilly_in_VA

(9,995 posts)
30. Hear, hear!
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:51 AM
Jul 2022

I get really tired of having to "watch my language" and being told to do so every whipstitch because I
might offend someone". I understand the BIG OFFENDERS--the racial slurs, the ethnic slurs, that stuff. But come on, everyone, now everything is "offensive" to someone, it seems. I could probably pick a word to be offensive to me; I'm 79 and don't like being called "elderly" because I don't feel that way, but I'm not going to make a cause out of it.

Can we all stop being uptight about every single word?

llmart

(15,552 posts)
41. Amen.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:59 AM
Jul 2022

Or is that going to be a word that atheists will take me to task for? LOL (FYI, I'm an atheist).

I think we just add more fuel to the other side's fire and gives them more ways to attack us on social issues. Social issues are all they really have to go on and they take that and run with it. We've lived through their denigration of political correctness and now wokeness.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,434 posts)
43. "Can we all stop being uptight about every single word?"
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:07 PM
Jul 2022


No shit. I've seen so many good posts removed, because of someone who probably didn't even get the point due to their rush to be "offended".

I've also seen other post remain in the same thread using the same word in the same context. The double standards need to go.

Celerity

(43,497 posts)
104. I recall a thread where someone was whingeing on about the word 'sucks' being misogynistic
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 07:04 PM
Jul 2022

talk about pedantic nonsense taken to an absurd degree



it is that type of ridiculousness that will cost us elections if adopted as official messaging

another example

'fear shaming', mentioned negatively (and rightly so) by BannonsLiver (hat tip to them)

what the absolute fuckery is that all about?

that level of ludicrous word policing and openly infantilising (omg, now I am being anti infant! /sarc off) projection is the stuff of destroying our party

FoxNewsSucks

(10,434 posts)
111. That's right,
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 08:49 PM
Jul 2022

and it just gives ammo to the MAGAts to call liberals "snowflakes".

But the worst is how it wastes time that should be spent thinking about actual problems.

PatSeg

(47,584 posts)
66. Yes, it has gotten excessive
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 01:06 PM
Jul 2022

and it often feels like people are just listening to individual words, not what is actually being said. This can end up shutting down meaningful conversation.

We all have words that we are sensitive about, but most of us don't go around correcting others because of our own personal preferences. I tend to listen more to a person's intentions and meaning, not their vocabulary choice.

I don't feel "elderly" either, but I understand that to someone in their twenties, thirties, or forties, that is what they see and at their age, I probably did as well. When I was in my fifties, I remember a very young employee referring to me as "old", which really threw me off. She meant it as a compliment though, as she didn't see me as acting or talking like an "old person".

Meanwhile, I'd like to carry on insightful, interesting conversations without feeling that my every word is up for scrutiny or censor. It would be nice if we spent more time actually listening to people, instead of always judging them.

dalton99a

(81,570 posts)
49. Yeah, let's ban hysteria, hysterical, hysterically, ...
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:21 PM
Jul 2022

While the planet is burning and our democracy is hanging by a thread

WTF.


llmart

(15,552 posts)
57. Exactly my point.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:29 PM
Jul 2022

It's almost August and we have a fight against corruption from the GOP on our hands and a democracy to defend in any way possible. On a forum such as this and at this crucial time in history, we need to focus on coordinating all Democrats to find out what each of us can do to help elect more Democrats - LOTS more Democrats so we can get to work on the extremely important issues like climate change.

I believe that just recently Calimary had an excellent post about what we can be doing right now for Democrats. I bookmarked it myself because I can do more than the one thing I was already doing and I'm going down to my township hall and sign up for being a poll watcher. I'm in Michigan and it's been reported that Republicans in this state have gathered 800 people so far to be poll watchers throughout the state (or maybe it was poll workers/watchers, etc.). I haven't heard that there is a massive effort by Democrats to do the same.

Celerity

(43,497 posts)
114. it is one of those 'HYPER 1980's' power ballad classics, lolol
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 09:31 PM
Jul 2022

this is actually probably my favourite DL song

and it has COWBELL

lol

DEF LEPPARD - "Let It Go" (Official Music Video)




and this song too

3 great remix videos (I am such a remix fangirl, lol)


Def Leppard - Photograph (KGM Sasha Extended Version) (the video is the dog's bollocks)




Def Leppard - Photograph (Extended Mix Re-Edit) (sledgehammer drums, love it!)




Def Leppard - Photograph (Long Wolf Remix)


FoxNewsSucks

(10,434 posts)
115. Those were all excellent,
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 10:24 PM
Jul 2022

I've never seen any of them, thanks! I think I liked the first one best.

Photograph was my favorite, until Hysteria. And of course, Animal



I did get a laugh about the cowbell, because any time cowbell and rock songs comes up I think of this MOOOving performance



It's even relevant to this thread because there are always myopic prudes who are offended by the Bob & Tom show. And will likely be "offended" by seeing the term prudes.



Celerity

(43,497 posts)
116. here is a wee bit different type of early 1980's tune with some serious cowbell, lol
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 10:47 PM
Jul 2022

Italian hardcore punk legends from 1983, on the Welcome To 1984 (a Maximumrocknroll compilation)

Raw Power - Fuck Authority



In 1983 they recorded a 19-track demo (sometimes referred as Brown Studio Tape) and two songs appeared in the Italian punk compilation, Raptus. The tape also included the song «Fuck authority», which appeared in Maximumrocknroll's international punk and hardcore compilation, Welcome to 1984.













PatSeg

(47,584 posts)
68. Yes, when something is extremely funny,
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 01:11 PM
Jul 2022

I often call it "hysterical" and that has become a fairly common usage of the word.

arlyellowdog

(866 posts)
3. I didn't know about this debate and I just used "bitch."
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:21 AM
Jul 2022

I was joking with my sister who is 73 (I’m 72) and she said something teasing me and I said, “Oh, my God, you’re such a bitch.” I’ve said it jokingly on texts to my brothers also. A funny insult word.

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
4. Whether a word is funny or not depends on who is hearing or reading it, I think.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:22 AM
Jul 2022

Others might see it differently.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,434 posts)
27. The problem is some don't consider context
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:48 AM
Jul 2022

there is an automatic knee-jerk "I'm offended" reaction even when there is clearly not an intended offensive use.

I find it disappointing that those same "offended" people will use words like "dick" or "Prick" when referring to a man.

I'm personally not offended by any of those words IF the context is the behavior of the individual being insulted. But the double-standard is annoying.

llmart

(15,552 posts)
47. +1
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:18 PM
Jul 2022

Absolutely. Furthermore, I am not going to apologize for a post that I made a couple years ago when I called Trump a prick.

PatSeg

(47,584 posts)
71. Yes, I think we need to take into consideration
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 01:19 PM
Jul 2022

a person's intention before we pass judgment on the use of certain words. I have had words said to me in the cruelest context imaginable, but I have heard and even used those same words without any problem at all. It was the intention that made the difference.

There are a handful of words that I've never used and never will, as I can think of no harmless intention that would apply.

Ms. Toad

(34,087 posts)
113. Using a gendered word as an insult is offensive. Period.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 09:01 PM
Jul 2022

(1) please provide examples of those same "offended" people using dick or prick to refer to a man. For example, I have never referred to a man using a gendered slur.

(2) using gendered/race/etc. terms as insults when those terms are inherently connected to the dominant class is not the same as using a gendered term connected to a historically discriminated against class. Are you offended by the double standard which allows colleges to create affirmative action plans to increase the number of minorities when historical discrimination can be shown - but not to increase the number of white men at the same colleges? It isn't a double standard when the gender of the insulting term is female (or when the race of the insulting term is a minority)

It doesn't matter if you are personally insulted, using bitch as an insult is misogyny. The TOS prohibit misogyny, so I expect not to encounter it here - and to have it condemned when it is used.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,434 posts)
117. No. Not always.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:00 PM
Jul 2022

Sometimes the gender-identifiable word has no more significance than simply identifying who the bad-behaver is - the male or the female. It is not the point, and has the same use as saying the person in the blue shirt is the one who punched me. As opposed to the person in the red shirt.

It is NOT always about whether they are male or female, but which person the insulter is talking about.

I'll acknowledge that I've never seen you call a guy a "dick" or "prick", but I've also never seen you object to that. If you have, I apologize for missing it.

Using gendered terminology to insult BECAUSE of gender is indeed wrong, but that's not always the case and it doesn't help things to react to every use as if it were.

Ms. Toad

(34,087 posts)
120. See point #2 in my original post.
Mon Jul 25, 2022, 01:59 AM
Jul 2022

I don't comment about people using white as an insult, either.

Calling Josh Hawley, specifically, a bitch (since that is what seemed to start this recent spate of misogyny) is calling him a weak, cowardly woman. That is the reason that word is being used - because it is associated with stereotypical traits asociated with women - running away from a threat.

Using a female-identified word as an insult IS misogynistic. It is not a neutral description of someone (otherwise it wouldn't be an insult). Specifically, with the word "bitch" - when directed at men is used to bring them "down" to women's level - to imply they are not real men. When directed at women, it is to call out women who are being assertive - i.e. not being silent, not deferring to the men in the room, etc.

quickesst

(6,283 posts)
44. I think the wholesale condemnation of certain words..
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:11 PM
Jul 2022

.... and subsequent wholesale condemnation of those who use them, are short-sighted, overly rigid in their beliefs, and should concentrate more on context, rather than their own narrow view of what certain words convey.
There are certain situations where certain words are used in a mutually humorous situations that occur with male to female, female to male, male to male, or female to female. Believe me, if anyone who takes offense at certain words no matter the context were to butt into a humorous situation occurring between two consenting parties, they would probably be told In not so PC words, to " go f__k themselves", but if another man called my wife a b****, he would find himself staring up at the ceiling in a daze, and wondering what just happened. If a woman were to call my wife a b****, well, she would take care of that herself, and I would just stay out of the way.
There are certain words and phrases, given the size of the population, and the diversity of individuals, that will never be accepted under a specific, or narrow definition. It is an uphill battle for the wrong reasons, and the top of the hill is nowhere in sight.

 

BlackSkimmer

(51,308 posts)
85. Yes, and I've heard a black man use the n word to another black man. Neither was offended.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 03:54 PM
Jul 2022

But just try saying that as a white person to a black person.

When people call a man the b word not in jest, it is meant to infer that they are like a woman, and not in a good way.

There's a world of difference, and you know it.

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
5. Unless a woman uses it of course ...
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:22 AM
Jul 2022

I can hardly think of a woman in my life who has never referred to some other woman (and sometimes men) as a bitch. My grandma's generation, no, but they're long passed.

I guess when a woman says it, they don't mean 'not a submissive person who keeps her opinions to herself', they mean 'this chick was mean to me/bugs me in some way'.

So it's entirely different, and obviously no man could EVER use it in the same way as women use it, entirely acceptably, on a regular basis.

I've taken to using the word 'dick' when describing females who are being really mean.

Just so people know that I 'know the rules'.

Which is to say ... pejoratives specific to MALES ... pretty much A-OK in all cases.

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
9. It's quite easy to avoid using all of those gender-related insults,
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:26 AM
Jul 2022

it seems to me.

And speaking of "dick," my middle name is Richard. That is what people called me in my youth, since I share my full name with my father. So, I was "Richard" to prevent misunderstandings I have always objected to being called "Dick." That dates back to when I was 5 years old and a neighbor woman called me "Dickie." I said, quite pointedly, "My name is Richard!" At 5 years old, I knew that calling someone a "dick" was an insult, and wouldn't have it.

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
25. What does the PC Guidebook say about using it in a context like this ...
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:48 AM
Jul 2022

"Steve wasn't really mad, he just wanted something to bitch about"

Where the context makes it quite clear that it refers to 'complaining', which is an accepted definition of the word.

Is the verb form just as horrific as the noun form, used as a direct insult?

Am I signaling my lack of virtue if I use it in this capacity from time to time?

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
46. Think about the use of it as a verb.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:15 PM
Jul 2022

It's the same thing, really. There are many suitable synonyms that can be used instead.

Again, it is used because it fits the stereotype some have of women as whiny complainers. That's why it's used in that way.

How about using "complaining" or "grousing" or whatever other synonym? Shades of meaning.

llmart

(15,552 posts)
50. Jaysus...
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:22 PM
Jul 2022

we're not writing a PhD thesis on our DU posts. Some of us don't have the time or inclination to sit around and ponder everything we post on DU, with a thesaurus and dictionary on hand to make sure we have found the perfect word to express our outrage.

Jilly_in_VA

(9,995 posts)
87. My whole point earlier
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 03:59 PM
Jul 2022

Can we just STOP being offended over every little word?Jaysus, people! Get a grip already.

 

inthewind21

(4,616 posts)
127. Words
Mon Jul 25, 2022, 03:43 PM
Jul 2022

That's all they are. Words. Words which can, and have changed in meaning and use over time. I for one can find plenty to be offended over without having to hang on every word spoken. I highly recommend Netflix "The history of swear words" See how they started, what they originally meant, how that meaning changed over time and how they were used then and now. This tenancy to take EVERYTHING to extremes is completely unproductive and serves no purpose. Just ask the Me Too movement what going overboard gets you.

Polybius

(15,475 posts)
118. I didn't even know that dick meant penis when you were a kid
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:41 PM
Jul 2022

I would have thought that that slang term didn't start until the late 60's.

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
6. Look at the way the military uses it.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:25 AM
Jul 2022

You call a male soldier a bitch, you are insulting him. He's weak and inferior. In other words, he's a woman. And its not because of how he is acting. Its because the greatest insult to a military man is to call him a woman. So, over and over, the military reinforces the idea that women are inferior.

Sympthsical

(9,108 posts)
17. As a kid, I always liked to see how high I could get the flames
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:39 AM
Jul 2022

So I'm always happy to see when someone else likes that, too.

Bobstandard

(1,328 posts)
12. OP makes a great point
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:30 AM
Jul 2022

Both usages are pretty indefensible.

I heard it used positively once. On a walk one day my Kerry Blue Terrier, one of a notoriously loud breed, was yap, yap, yapping at just about anything when we ran into a woman walking three Kerrie’s of her own. We stopped to chat. Regarding my dog Mimi admiringly, in a broad English accent she said, “oh and she’s a mouthy bitch, isn’t she?”

mucifer

(23,564 posts)
13. Sometimes words like bitch can be empowering. It depends how you use it . I have a
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:31 AM
Jul 2022

t shirt that says

Feminist
She Devil
Vegan

If it had a line on it for bitch I would have bought it .

I remember being at the women's march and someone offered me a vegan leaflet and I pointed to the shirt I was wearing and she started cracking up.

ecstatic

(32,731 posts)
15. I've referred to mitch as Moscow's B...
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:35 AM
Jul 2022

I apologize if that offended anyone, but damn, don't we have more pressing concerns right now? We can resume all the handwringing and circular firing when our democracy is secure.

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
16. Not handwringing, and I'm not telling anyone what to do or not do.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:37 AM
Jul 2022

I'm simply explaining why many people object to that word. You can make of what I wrote whatever you wish, of course.

ismnotwasm

(42,006 posts)
18. Bitch is used very casually among younger groups of people
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:41 AM
Jul 2022

Without rancor. It’s meaning changes, it can be negative or positive depending on who it using it. I’ve seen women activists say things like “And that’s why you don’t get no bitches dawg” —when referring to terrible men and misogynistic behavior. The speaker is not using either word “‘bitches” or “dawg” to degrade, but to describe a situation.

When using it as a misogynistic/homophobic reference, as you’ve said here, another word should be used probably. I like “potato”, personally.

My female German Shepherd likes water and mud puddles I let her cool down after activity in a couple favorites she has. I got her some bling that says “Muddy Bitch” in hot pink. It’s technically the truth lol.

Jerry2144

(2,110 posts)
20. I hate it when I am forced to think
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:43 AM
Jul 2022

I've used that term to describe complaining about something petty. similar to "piss and moan" about something. But you're right, even in that connotation or context it is demeaning, degrading, and potentially misogynistic since it is negative. I guess griping would be the best word to substitute.

Thanks for opening my eyes - another word I shall strike from my use. I don't even like to use it for a female canine.

Walleye

(31,045 posts)
21. Part of the problem for our side as we obsess over a little things like figures of speech
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:45 AM
Jul 2022

Do you want to hear misogyny listen to what Matt Gaetz said the other night. A lot of it is in the intent, not the words. I find there is much more misogyny in the Supreme Court ruling and they didn’t use any offensive words

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
37. Well, figures of speech carry a great deal of meaning.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:57 AM
Jul 2022

They subtly affect our thinking in ways we don't always recognize.

Walleye

(31,045 posts)
60. You better believe it. There are still way too many think that way and talk that way.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:46 PM
Jul 2022

Just using the odd offensive word is not our problem. Women know real misogyny when we see it

BannonsLiver

(16,448 posts)
23. Setting aside the B word for a moment.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:46 AM
Jul 2022

Is mocking Hawley for running away “fear shaming” him? He was in fear for his life and took appropriate action by running away. Should people mock that?

BannonsLiver

(16,448 posts)
31. Agreed
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:52 AM
Jul 2022

Though I don’t see that distinction being made by those who are attempting to make the fear shaming point in the other thread.

 

inthewind21

(4,616 posts)
128. NO
Mon Jul 25, 2022, 03:49 PM
Jul 2022

It's not "fear shaming" when you get mocked for creating your disaster. What's with all this "shaming" BS? And we wonder why dems are labeled s snowflakes offended by EVERYTHING.

BeerBarrelPolka

(1,202 posts)
130. Totally
Mon Jul 25, 2022, 03:59 PM
Jul 2022

Some of these responses are pollyanna and sickening. The pomposity and arrogance has made me not want to come here anymore. I'd rather be called a bad name then be shot in the freaking head. There are some delusional people on this site without a doubt that have not experienced what real threats and violence are all about.

I apologize if I offended anyone, but I've dealt with real violence my whole life including being shot.

BannonsLiver

(16,448 posts)
131. Ask the people who are pushing it.
Mon Jul 25, 2022, 04:48 PM
Jul 2022

I’m in the “pretty much anything goes” camp when it comes to attacking modern trumpublicans.

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
32. He's being mocked because he espouses "manliness" and "masculinity."
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:53 AM
Jul 2022

He ran like a coward. He could have walked across that hallway in safety. He is a hypocrite. "like a bitch" are entirely the wrong words to use to describe what he did.

It's like saying some man made some other man "his bitch." In saying that, what someone is implying that the second man was made into a subservient sex slave. Again, it insults women in general, and reveals that the person speaking thinks that is the role of a woman.

Words carry a lot of meaning. That makes it important to think about the words we use, it seems to me.

Ziggysmom

(3,410 posts)
28. Hey there MM. I'd like to share a great paper on the topic, with many points to consider 🤓
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:49 AM
Jul 2022

Below is a link to the JMU paper. I've come to especially agree with these paragraphs in the conclusion:

"The normalizing of bitch indicates the lack of imagination that results from living under conditions of entrenched inequalities. Why is “bitch” a preferred tool of women’s empowerment? That women would rather call themselves or other women bitches—rather than feminists—suggests that domination and subordination have become the only legitimate options in U.S. society. Even if women who proclaim themselves “bitches” could be taken seriously, that would hardly be a feminist solu- tion; we’d have women divided into the categories of “bitches” (honorary men) and “doormats” (all other women). Sound familiar?
A woman who enjoys the honorary status of man by using “bitch” may have fun with “the girls” or win temporary acceptance from “the guys.” But this individual gain ultimately is part of a collective loss for women. That women use “bitch” re- inforces the idea that women are essentially different from men, and in a negative way: men may act like jerks, but women are “bitches.” And only men who act “like women” (members of the subordinate category) will be accused of “bitching.” Wom- en using men’s pejoratives for women is flattering to men; at the same time, those terms legitimate sexist ideas about women."

https://www.jmu.edu/socanth/sociology/wm_library/ezzell.reclaiming_critical_analysis.pdf

FoxNewsSucks

(10,434 posts)
36. Like "Jello" "Bandaid" or "Kleenex"
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:57 AM
Jul 2022

Widespread common use has lessened the meaning of The B-Word.

As with most words, I wish people would look at the entire context before automatically being "offended". And those who are offended should also refrain from calling men "dicks" or other gender terms. If they're genuinely offended, that is.

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
40. I agree that we should be very careful about using gender-related insults.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:58 AM
Jul 2022

Wouldn't hurt if we did that.

ForgedCrank

(1,782 posts)
38. Although I
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:57 AM
Jul 2022

find the use of such words to be quite insensitive, it tells me more about the person using it than the person they are referring to with such words.
They are generally either someone I wouldn't care to be around, or simply someone who hasn't really given this much thought.

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
42. Exactly. Which is why eliminating such loaded insults
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:00 PM
Jul 2022

from what we say is a good idea. There are always better words one can use to insult someone.

Triloon

(506 posts)
48. The anti-vulgarity society is up
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:20 PM
Jul 2022

bright and early on it's Sunday morning patrol.
Here they are with their aloof and superior attitude, arrogantly believing that lesser persons need the meanings of common words explained.
Yes, insults are insulting. Duh.

dalton99a

(81,570 posts)
53. Democrats must purify themselves to perfection and wear 100% certified pure clothes
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:27 PM
Jul 2022

before they can wrestle with pigs

The F-word can only be used once in a PG-13 movie.

I propose a similar quota: One bad word per annum per member



BannonsLiver

(16,448 posts)
63. +1
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:56 PM
Jul 2022

What I find fascinating is the very intense, visceral reaction to a word…followed by yet another very lengthy thread about the word.

Response to Triloon (Reply #48)

panader0

(25,816 posts)
52. Besides referring to women, men or female dogs, it can mean something difficult,
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 12:24 PM
Jul 2022

such as "climbing that steep hill was a real bitch."

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
78. Fair warning ... non-PC speech is referenced in this post. This stuff is not for the timid.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 02:49 PM
Jul 2022

When my hip, young, and openly gay next door neighbor wants me to come over for a cigarette and chat, he'll text me, and it often goes something like this ..

Ryan: F*g?
Me: Mmmm yeah, I'd love to come over for a f*g!
Ryan: I bet you would, sl*t!
Me: You wish, bish!

It's just between the two of us in a private communication, how we talk sometimes to amuse ourselves.

Bearing in mind that I'm hetero-flexible myself ... do I need to refuse to engage in this way, out of like principle or something?

Or maybe practice self-flagellation (or similar penance) afterwards?

BannonsLiver

(16,448 posts)
80. Of course.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 03:01 PM
Jul 2022

Have heard it many times. My guess is those who are most invested in telling people they can’t use this word don’t have a lot of gay friends, though. And if they do, you know they sure as hell aren’t correcting them when they say it.

BannonsLiver

(16,448 posts)
67. You can bet someone would find weenie offensive.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 01:06 PM
Jul 2022

In another thread someone attempted to make the case “suck” is offensive. As in “this movie sucks”.

rownesheck

(2,343 posts)
69. What I am getting out of this thread
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 01:16 PM
Jul 2022

is that you must be the most cool headed and relaxed person. Your responses to everyone who isn't necessarily in agreement with you seem so calm and measured.

I wish I was like that. I'm usually quick to anger.

Oh, and I'm one who doesn't necessarily agree, but I can see your point. And I'll take it into consideration.

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
72. Some agree with my opinions. Others disagree.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 01:22 PM
Jul 2022

That's fine with me. I learn from everyone and I'm not in a popularity contest here.

It's the discussion that interests me, so...

Thanks for your kind words.

gay texan

(2,471 posts)
110. Man....
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 08:40 PM
Jul 2022

Awesome van! get some side pipes, some Cragar ss rims, with some T/A's and youll have one bitchin sled!


I miss those days.....

Iggo

(47,565 posts)
82. Can't always read the room before throwing out fighting words.
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 03:17 PM
Jul 2022

And when you don’t, your message gets gobbled up by the thing that will kill our movement, the Democrats’ weapon of choice for suicide: The Tone Argument.

So have at it, kids!

jalan48

(13,883 posts)
83. I think about the seriousness of climate change and then read how offended some are by this
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 03:21 PM
Jul 2022

word, and all I can do is shake my head in disbelief.

Celerity

(43,497 posts)
108. +1000
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 07:38 PM
Jul 2022

the OTT word policing (such as people going off about how the word 'sucks' is misogynistic) is an insidious distraction by design

it is a divide et impera gambit launched from within

nini

(16,672 posts)
95. I've never understood why it matters what word is used in an insult
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 04:15 PM
Jul 2022

I don’t necessarily pre-think the exact words I’m using when insulting someone.

An insult is an insult and the worse thing I do is throw in lots of f bombs etc. 🙂

I don’t insult someone who doesn’t deserve it and that’s my only rule really. If someone calls me a bitch my reply is a thank you for the compliment. Pisses them off they don’t get to me. I know I have thicker skin than most though.

nini

(16,672 posts)
126. True, and I know I don't speak for all women
Mon Jul 25, 2022, 02:52 PM
Jul 2022

and wouldn't dream of doing that.

My take is I don't want to be looked on as some fragile female that can be offended by someone's words - that is giving someone power over me in my opinion. Again I have a tougher skin than most.

I had this discussion with a coworker once and she is not as tough as I am so she didn't agree with me. And that's ok because our early years were different etc. One's upbringing etc. plays a part in all this stuff and it's not a one size fits all view.

That being said,, yes we should all be more aware of different opinions - including myself.

edbermac

(15,945 posts)
119. I'd use the B word to describe MTG and Josh Hawley
Sun Jul 24, 2022, 11:58 PM
Jul 2022

When dealing with Republicans I just can’t help but curse.

MerryBlooms

(11,771 posts)
136. Do you remember the few folks using "Rhonda", when referring
Mon Jul 25, 2022, 10:31 PM
Jul 2022

To Ron DeSantis? I sure do. I remember them being told it was offensive, but they doubled down, week after week, until one or two got hidden. Then the other guy, slinked quietly off, and pretended he never used that slur. Do you remember? I sure do. These posts have quietly sunsetted into never happened land. But I remember.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Another Way to Look at th...