Back in a different lifetime, I was in the army

[Cyrano]

I didn't join. I was drafted.

It's in some ways an enlightening experience, as you meet people from just about everywhere. And, over time, you bond with some of them. Some of those bonds last a lifetime.

In many ways, we were all still children. Few of us understood or cared about politics. All we knew was that we were there and had to do battle against any "enemy" the government told us was an "enemy." We were well fed, well housed, well clothed, well trained and were able to put up with some of the horrible shit the army makes you put up with. It wasn't "fun & games," but you were a member of the "club." You belonged.

Many of the people I served with came from the South and, at first, I resented them. At that time, finding good employment in the South was difficult, so many men decided that their best bet was going into the service. Coming from the North, I wasn't used to their opinions, their world views and, in some cases, their bigotries. Nonetheless, when you live closely 24 hours a day with people, you get to know them, you get to know their beliefs, you get to know their strengths and weaknesses, and, most importantly, you get to know their character (even if you didn't understand the word "character" at the time). And, since many of our noncoms and officers were black, or brown, or Jewish, many from the South, (and some from elsewhere), were able to overcome the "teachings" of the society in which they'd grown up.

My own army experiences are not important here. But the bullshit the Republican Party has fed to the American public for generations is where I'm going with this. The Republican Party has always claimed to be "holier than thou" on any issue concerning the well-being of the military and of its veterans. ITS ALWAYS BEEN BULLSHIT. It was just one more facade they put up to con the American public into thinking that Republicans are the "real" Americans and that all Democrats are "Commies" and worse.

What they just did yesterday, is what they've always done. But most of it wasn't this high profile. They've spent decades fucking veterans in the same way they just did. But few noticed before now. I'm still in touch with some friends I made in the military and even though some were "hard core Southerners," they know the Republican Party is fucking them and has been fucking them since day one. They "get it."

Meanwhile, those so-called "Commie" Democrats have done everything possible to improve benefits for veterans and to raise the standard of living for all.

Fuck Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, Mitch McConnell, Tom Cotton, and every one of those motherfu***ng pieces of garbage. They don't care who lives or who dies, who prospers or who ends up homeless, or anyone living out their days, helpless and hopeless, in some dilapidated VA hospital. Fuck the Republican Party in which so many seek to hold the title of America's first "fuehrer."

[Laffy Kat]

1. Great post.

[Baked Potato]

2. Republicans would rather troops come home in a box. Cheaper.

Good post.

[Cyrano]

3. Never thought of it that way. But I can't disagree.

[dutch777]

4. Well said. Now if we can just message this in Dem campaigns we'll have something

Republicans show themselves, quite often, as the enemy of the common person--be that vets, the working class, single moms, on and on. And somehow, we Dems don't often seem to be able to get that point passed on to the voters in a way that they vote D rather than R (or vote at all). I often think this is due to the one issue voters-- those who are for guns, against abortion, will never vote for a person of color or woman or whatever. But somehow I keep thinking more folks would look at the broader issues that affect them, their kids, grandkids and the broader community and GET A CLUE!

[Cyrano]

8. Yep. Far too many human beings live in an ideological bubble

It seems that a bubble would be easy to puncture. But the Republican Party has managed to build one out of steel. Breaking through the propaganda of Fox "news," their online hate sites, and the main stream media's inclination to be "fair" and "tell both sides of the issue," is a difficult barrier to overcome.

These places are where most people get their "news." Far too many people can't/don't think for themselves. And far too few Democratic politicians understand that we need a gigantic "propaganda/truth" machine to level the playing field.

[mopinko]

5. i was shocked to find out how little active duty folks

know about what comes next. ie- my nephew was a major in the army, jr rotc to flag officer to just short of a star. still active duty when he advised his nephew to enlist to follow his dream of being a nurse. was a surgical nurse at reed when his 2 yrs was over.
went home to cali to get his rn and was told- you have to start at square 1, and you cant even be an emt.

if i guy who commanded a base, served 20 yrs at that point, didnt know this, how many of the guys who sign up to get skills they think they can get good money for know this is how it's rigged?
and the reason it's rigged- the student loan lobby. they arent content to have vets use their bennies, they want to make them use them.
the passed a bill on this in cali- the sponsor was targeted and lost his next race. the bill was repealed in the next session. (bill came about will a lot of push from my bro, said nurse's dad.)

my nephew served in the obama wh after this. not only did he bring it up w his cic, my bro took a west wing tour and left a note in obama's medicine chest about it. got a visit from the ss.

and nobody but nobody in power admits to even knowing this is going on.

[usaf-vet]

18. The exact same thing happen to me YEARS AGO. 1965 to 1969 I handed surgical instruments to surgeons.

Every day and sometimes days, nights, and weekends as well. Yet when I got out, I was told you are not qualified to scrub in. You can work in central supply cleaning, repacking, and sterilizing instruments for the next day.

The final straw was when the OR charge nurse ask ME if I knew what a Caldwell-Luc procedure was. And could I pull the instruments that might be needed? The new visiting Otolaryngologists (ENT) wanted to do the procedure the next day. No one else even knew the procedure. The case was canceled, and the patient was transferred to another facility that was staff with "trained" staff.

Caldwell-Luc operation, also known as Caldwell-Luc antrostomy, and Radical antrostomy, is an operation to remove irreversibly damaged mucosa of the maxillary sinus. It is done when maxillary sinusitis is not cured by medication or other non-invasive techniques.

I handed in my resignation because the handwriting was on the wall. Sadly I never scrub in again. I loved the job. But didn't and wouldn't go back to square one.

[mopinko]

26. that's super disheartening to me, as that surgery

might be in my future.

and it's still not fixed. all to feed the bloodsuckers.

[Abolishinist]

6. Your post reminded me of my recent thoughts

about bringing back some form of mandatory national public service. Part of me wants to keep the government out of the lives of its citizens as much as possible, but on the other hand, your experience 'forced' you to interact with those you thought you had little in common with, and conversely as well. There is much to be said for that.

From a random article that I just looked up and will admit to only glossing over...

"Essentially, participants would provide much-needed public services and, in return, receive significant benefits, including covered college or trade school tuition and living expenses, that would lessen the country’s socioeconomic divide. In doing so, they would interact with Americans from other communities, gain life skills, and transform their own futures—and that of the country itself."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/31/us-democracy-mandatory-public-service-program-political-divides/

[Cyrano]

10. Yes, the government provides many benefits to vets

But a spotlight must be thrown upon the underfunded VA hospitals. Too many gave far too much. And the govt. is ignoring them.

[usonian]

7. Spoiled, privileged, manipuliative bastards. Your GQP.

Growing up in the 60's, I wasn't against the military. I was against the war that sent them to injury and death.

They were mostly drafted. And so was I, so I was fortunate enough to enlist in the Coast Guard.

I already got my college degree, so I was suspected as being the ringer,the narc in boot camp (I sure wasn't)

Later, I got to meet people from all over. Officers with masters degrees in optics from University of Rochester, the boot whose pet skunk had hemorrhoids (or so he said, to avoid coming in to work), the machinist, who got me interested in mechanical stuff, the base photographer who developed film for free when he had a batch to do, the deer hunter from PA who a couple of us converted to a photographer (so he could shoot the same buck multiple times), the salty old Warrant Officer who was thrilled that I struck for a rating (Third Class Electrician's Mate) instead of going to a school for it, the guy who studied Zen with Suzuki Roshi in San Francisco who had been trying to get out for years, and finally got out when he decided to stay and convert the entire corps to Buddhism ...

Importantly, since I went in just as the war was ending (yeah, I'm lucky that way) I didn't send someone else to die in Vietnam in my place.

What one realizes in the service is that whether you're in a fighting unit or a life-saving unit, lives depend on you, and there's a certain humility that's engaged in that. Nobody's there to do your bidding like some legal slave. Lives are meaningful.

At one ceremony, the flag was being jostled in the breeze, so I got volunteered to hold it up. That meant something to me, not just a surrogate dick to wave.

I believe in karma, and entertain the notion that you come back as the person you treated the worst in this life. I therefore treat everyone with respect. Maybe they don't know any better when they go off the deep end, and maybe I should somehow, if I can, improve their lot and understanding.

Fucking golden rule. Universally ignored because it's "inconvenient".

[Cyrano]

12. So many individual stories. So many lives changed.

I remember when so many objected to that masterpiece Wall on the Mall in DC designed by the wonderful Maya Lin. It's the most visited site in Washington.

And I believe it's not just to honor those who sacrificed. It's a message to prevent all wars.

I really don't believe the Republican Party grasps this. Or that they give a shit about it.

Given your belief in karma, perhaps those who treated all the best they could in life, will come back and make the world a better place.

[usonian]

15. That's why I am here!

Taking that mission seriously, though I could be better at it.

Posted this the other day.



Thanks for posting.

[Cyrano]

27. I can't grasp how anyone could vote for that empty man

He could never understand that the water pouring down over the names carved into that memorial are tears. Nor would he care.

[usonian]

28. He just encapsulates their rage. At basically everything.

Rage at what? Well, times are never peachy, so there's always something is always there to gripe about.

And when rage is manufactured, as people do for their advantage over others, who don't see how they're being used against their own better interest .... People project their weaknesses onto others.
And even the "Good Shepherd" is weaponized.

Every Accusation is a Confession
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216777247

And throughout history are taken to the cleaners.

I can't grasp how anyone could vote for that empty man
Because they feel empty, or are propagandized to feel so, quite skillfully.


People put up with contradictions to be part of an identity group, hence identity politics, and basically cult membership.
And AFAICT, same rules apply. I was going to post a reply going into this, but the OP yanked the thread. I might as well attach it below.

Here is some background I like to refer:
“Democracy in Crisis: We’ve Been Headed Here for Decades.” Part 1of 8
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/8/6/2044226/-America-2021-The-Good-the-Bad-the-Ugly
Read all 8 to get the "plan" in detail.
This is all a Russian plan. Started years ago.
https://pastebin.com/raw/evbnN5y7

People who feel powerless have only rage.
I figure that a main reason is the deliberate stagnation of government over many years, except for some pretty extreme welfare for the rich.

In short: "They call it trickle-down economics but it's really golden showers"

In response to the yanked question on how to "convert" repubs not entirely deluded by the Qult mentality ...

So, I read a lot on cult behavior and how people escape it (well, some do), and there are similarities to addiction.

I forgot what and where I posted it, and it's long, so here's my summary.

SOME people escape, due to these key reasons.

1. Some feel betrayed, as the rose colored glasses fade. You might compare this to "The Man Who Would be King". Failure helps (hint, hint)

2. Some cannot hold the contradiction in their minds any longer, since denial is key to any cult. One has to deny all outside information (sound familiar) and live with the lies, especially as the lies jump around from one outrage to another, and can contradict each other.

3. Some just hit "rock bottom" when they find that their behavior is just plain self-destructive, as it always was, but they were getting high on their own supply (of group identity or hate)

Others. I ask any therapists out there to chime in and correct. I just wanted to give a high-level view of some of the top breakaway mechanisms.

1 and 2 are particularly interesting as news eventually does get out and ring the denial bell.

You can't break everyone out. Cults will maintain some percentage of people (as "Q" does) but the point is to chip away at the borderline ones, just going along for the identity trip, as people do.
You are seeing some high-level people break away from the zombie curse as it becomes clear that they have been clinging to a "Party of Nothing© " or as I also noted the "Party of Spite© " or POS.

And also, that the "great cause" is purely destructive, with no positive outcome (except for Putin)

And that it has jumped the shark, the great contradiction being (can they see it?) that they want no government control, and at the same time, absolute government control (naturally, of others, but WOMEN ARE PEOPLE TOO.)



more ....

[underpants]

9. The DoD is a jobs program. Where are the big military bases?

Why, they are in the South. Military personnel means money and jobs to their district.

I grew up mostly in the Tidewater region of Virginia. The whole area runs off Uncle Sucker money as many call it.

[The Wizard]

22. The large military installations

in the slave states are part of Civil War reconstruction that should have ended a hundred years ago. Move those military bases north and let the confederates wither on the vine.

[underpants]

23. Well you know

That Spanish Armada might just pop up any day now.

[UTUSN]

11. Wingnuts are mostly non-serving, in prior eras *paid* for substitutes

Great OP, cogent overview of the military experience - the broadening of *our* minds to those of others' "opinions, their world views and, in some cases, their bigotries." Disagree that your experience is "not important."

Besides the main topic of the Repukes' latest vote, your context with the personal sub-topics is priceless to civilian brethren who have always struggled to understand vets and mostly ended up giving up on them/us. I dare say many - MANY - were snookered by the Repukes' propaganda about their "patriotism" and how they were the champions of the military and law enforcement.

*** Sub-topic: "good employment in the South was difficult, so many men decided that their best bet was going into the service." The only other one I've ever heard express this was former Rep. Charlie RANGEL, who said the reason that Minorities were over-represented in the military and in fatalities was that they enlisted because of *economics*, lack of opportunities in education and employment, not for ideology ("fighting Commies" ). I wasn't drafted, did my enlisting while my generational peers were protesting mainly regarding the Draft (only slightly for "peace" ). And did so because of the RANGEL reason: Economics.

Excellent OP.

[Cyrano]

13. Thank you so much for your understanding, UTUSN.

[UTUSN]

17. YOU understanding me!

[kairos12]

14. Chickenhawk scumbags.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

16. Wow!!!!

This veteran could not agree with you more.

Semper Fi Army.

[denbot]

19. Kick

[dugog55]

20. Here is a link to a list of the times the GOP sabotaged Obama's efforts, and this is only to 2015

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/aug/13/every-turn-republicans-undermine-veterans/

[The Wizard]

21. Drafted in 66

Injured in Vietnam in 68. Ignored by the VA until enough WW II and Korean War vets were off the books. I struggled with the VA system until a VA counselor gave me the road map to negotiate the system. After a 26 year battle i was granted my earned benefits.
Republicans are good at chest thumping and flag humping, but when it comes to funding the VA they're a day late and several dollars short. Their feigned patriotism is vomit worthy. And Trump hugging and kissing the flag proclaiming his love really rubs me the wrong way.
Do us all a favor, can the flag waving and fully fund the VA. Don't thank us for our service with words but with action by demanding Congress stop patting us on the back with one hand while knifing us with the other.

[OldBaldy1701E]

24. Hear Hear!

[FakeNoose]

25. +1000 This is the perfect rant

And you are entitled to use any foul language you can think of for those selfish, greedy, traitorous Repukes.

If the military men and women cannot see that the Democratic Party has their back, well I don't know. Their heads must be so far up their asses that it's too late for them. But I believe most of them will finally wake up and see this betrayal, and realize that the Repukes just can't be trusted.

Thanks and keep up the good fight my friend!