Store owner with shotgun stops robbers with assault rifles

[ripcord]

A would-be robber was critically injured after being shot by a store owner in Norco early Sunday in a dramatic incident that was captured on surveillance video.

An employee who reached out to KTLA said the video shows a man armed with an assault-style rifle walk into the Norco Market at 816 Sixth Street around 2:45 a.m., point the weapon at the owner, and order him to put his “hands in the air.”

Within just a few seconds, the owner steps behind a glass display and fires a shotgun at the suspect, who immediately runs out of the store screaming and shouting, “He shot my arm off!”

“In this case, a lawfully armed member of our community prevented a violent crime and ensured their own safety, while being confronted with multiple armed suspects,” the Sheriff’s Department said in a statement.

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/caught-on-video-store-owner-shotgun-blast/

There is a video in the story, I'm glad this guy was able to step up and defend himself and I hope his heart problems weren't serious.

[sarisataka]

1. Interesting

I have been told this scenario was impossible.

Hopefully the victim recovers quickly.

[rockfordfile]

5. what the f are you talking about?

I expect a store owner to have a firearm.
Not every pos should have a gun so they can murder or attempt to. Ban AR-15.

More gun restrictions to certain public areas are clearly needed. Orlando just had a mass gun shooting. We must stop these shooters before they can cause trouble not afterwards.

[sarisataka]

10. I have been repeatedly assured

Once the bad guy "has the drop" on you there is no way a mere mortal can counter that. The criminal will shoot you dead before you can get your gun. And even if you do somehow get it there is no way you would hit the person with the terror you will be feeling.

Yet here a person just did what is impossible.

I fully agree- not every POS should have a firearm.

[rockfordfile]

16. Well the pos had a gun because of repuke pos

This was a store owner . Ban AR-15. Restrict guns in public areas. is a common sense start

[sarisataka]

19. It may be common sense

But that gun is restricted in CA...

[Zeitghost]

87. Hard to tell

Lots of AR's for sale here that are CA compliant.

[Straw Man]

54. Because it stands to reason that ...

Restrict guns in public areas. is a common sense start

... the robber wouldn't have brought his weapon into the store if there had been a ban on guns in public areas ...

[Polybius]

73. Not exactly

He had an illegal gun with no license. There's an AR-16 ban in Cali.

[48656c6c6f20]

66. What scenario?

Going to the store and having to deal with a shootout? No that's the norm in GunMurka. So let's add fuel to the fucking fire and force people to arm themselves. I want to see a shootout in every corner, don't line the preacher? Shoot the fucking church up. Big Mac was cold? Let's throw down and lock and load. Glorious Days In GunMurka!

[sarisataka]

69. Here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16993266

I am glad I don't live in GunMurka. I never have to deal with a shootout going anywhere.

[48656c6c6f20]

70. You do live in GunMurka

We all do because gun owners are not to be trusted. At anytime they can go ballistic and start shooting up whatever is in their sight. Yes you live in GunMurka.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

81. Well, car owners can go ballistic and start running over people,

as we've seen numerous times, people with baseball bats can go ballistic and start playing baseball with heads, etc.

[48656c6c6f20]

83. Yeah and most are required to get a license

And have insurance. Do you have gun insurance in case you go off and start killing people? I mean it could happen to any gun owner. Look at how many legal, responsible gun owners that have shot the fuck out of people. Do you have to do an eye exam to own a gun? So theoretically we could have blind people going on a shooting spree right? Does you gun have more bullets than your car has gallons? Can you slam another tank into your car in a second or less? Only someone desperate to hold on to the gun culture brings a car to a gun fight.

[ripcord]

82. Don't worry

Those robbers armed with banned weapons will be gone and off the streets for a long time.

[HeartachesNhangovers]

2. So how long should these miscreants stay in prison if convicted?

Forever seems appropriate for people willing to kill for a few hundred dollars, if that. Yes, it's expensive to incarcerate people, but the alternative - having these people out in society committing violent crimes for a living - is expensive, too. Heck, they should get a few years just for robbing the car and parking in a handicapped parking space.

[Amishman]

12. This is a very tricky question

There is no easy answer, but my thoughts are that repeat offenders should face exponential sentencing.

First offense for most crimes? Light punishment (little to no jail) with a one time option to have the offense purged from any publicly accessible records after a set amount of time. In other words, learn your lesson, keep your nose clean, and you can recover fairly easily and live a normal life without stigma.

By the time they get to four, five, six, or more incidents, they should be going away for a lot of years because it is pretty clear that rehabilitation isn't possible. By that point bail should also be removed as an option. The question then becomes how do we house them?

I also think that we need legal reform to reduce or eliminate punishment for victimless crimes - particularly around drug use. That will free up capacity for incarcerating those who have a greater negative impact on society.

[ripcord]

29. They are already facing up to 8 years for violating Californiais AWB

Hopefully he will get at least as much for using one in the course of a robbery.

[Zeitghost]

88. Are you sure?

There are AR's for sale in every gun shop here. It's not hard to get a CA compliant one and the differences can be very hard to notice.

[Calculating]

71. Good ideas

Stop locking up drug offenders and we'll have room to keep violent criminals locked up.

[ProfessorGAC]

84. That's Certainly Step 1

Dangerous people getting short time because prisons are crowded with nonviolent, small time offenders is illogical.
Let out the vast majority of drug offenders, 100% of them if the charge was mere possession.

[BlackSkimmer]

3. Good for that owner.

I heard he had a heart attack too.

I hope the criminal goes to jail. Too bad about his arm. Not.

[bullwinkle428]

4. This store owner showed more guts than the entire Uvalde police department.

[Treefrog]

6. No shit.

I hope he recovers. And fuck the goddam criminal.

[Kaleva]

7. Magahats will argue that this is an example of why teachers should be armed

[BlackSkimmer]

9. Well, a wee bit different, wouldn't you say?

No classroom full of children who could be caught in crossfire.

Good for this store owner. I hope they all do the same.

[Kaleva]

13. The store owner might not have gone for the shotgun if there were customers present?

I suspect the storeowner has little training on what to do in such a situation and rarely, if ever, conducted drills. I could be wrong though and he may have trained and is highly skilled in handling a shotgun.


As for schools, I don't think they normally have kids at the doorways.

[BlackSkimmer]

44. Lol, ok.

[Polybius]

74. He shot his arm off with one shot, in a highly nerve-racking situation

Either he got an extremely lucky shot in or he's very skilled.

[H2O Man]

8. Recommended.

[Kaleva]

11. Personally I wouldn't use lethal force to defend property or money

But, given the circumstances, he may not have had a path to escape and he felt his life was in danger.

[Silent3]

14. Not that I'm in favor of everyone arming themselves for protection...

...since that goes wrong more often than it goes right, I would use lethal force (if I had it on hand) against anyone threatening me with lethal force or severe bodily harm.

Even if the implied situation is "Give us your money/property, and we won't use this lethal force".

Anyone willing to threaten me, or others, with death or severe physical harm for their own selfish desires immediately drops in value as a human being as far as I'm concerned.

[Kaleva]

18. I'd use lethal force too but only as a last resort if I thought life or limb was at risk

[ShazzieB]

59. If somebody was pointing an AR-15 at me, I think I would assume life or limb was at risk.

To me, that would go without saying. I think I would feel so threatened that I would be willing to do whatever was necessary to eliminate that threat. It wouldn't be about whether it's right or wrong to defend property or money with lethal force. It would be about "this miscreant here is ready to kill me and very well-equipped to do it, so if I have a way to stop him in his tracks, then hell, yes, I am going to do just that."

I'm not arguing about what would be most morally right or politically correct or anything like that. I'm talking about what my gut reaction would be. It's easy for us to sit here and armchair quarterback this thing, and talk about whether that store owner "should" have done x or y, but I think it's a whole different thing when you're literally staring death in the face.I wouldn't blame anyone in a situation like that if they went straight to defending themselves the best way they knew how, and I don't blame that store owner.

P. S. Just for the record, I am not and never have been a gun owner, and don't ever plan to acquire one. (The extent of my experience with firearms was shooting a 22 rifle at a summer camp, in very controlled conditions, decades ago.) I am strongly in favor of common sense gun safety laws, especially banning assault rifles.

[Kaleva]

67. I'd run if posdible. The 1st step on self defense is to have a plan.

I've already know what my reaction would be if am armed person came into the store.

I myself know where the exits are in the stores I go to. If I don't, I'll find them first before shopping. Any indication that there's a shooter on the premise and my wife and I will make a beeline to the nearest exit away from the shooter.

When I return home, I most often approach from the north as I'll be able to see the north, west, south and then east side of the home before getting out of the car. I look for anything unusual.

All the exterior doors are reinforced which ought to slow down home invaders long enough for my wife and I to retreat to the saferoom which is the master bedroom. The door to that is also reinforced and has a deadbolt. We'll have called the police. If they make a serious attempt to break into our bedroom, despite me yelling that I'm armed and the police have been called, I'll then feel justified in using lethal force.

[sarisataka]

20. Every situation is unique

But you are putting a lot of trust in a person who is willing to threaten your life to get property or money.

'Please don’t kill me:’ Witness begs for life as South Fulton convenience store clerk gunned down

[Kaleva]

40. Like I said, there may have been no avenue to escape.

I don't know if there was an exit to his right he could have made a move through while using the counter as cover.

Hopefully, most people have a plan. He did have a shotgun within reach and use of deadly force may have been his only plan.

[Zeitghost]

89. Bullets fired from rifles

Often move at thousands of feet per second. How fast do you think a white haired old man with heart problems can run?

[Kaleva]

90. He had time to retrieve the shotgun, aim and fire

Your saying he ought to have been shot dead before he had a chance to fire because bullets travel so fast.

[BlackSkimmer]

45. Someone is in your house threatening you and your family?

What would you do? Reason with them?

Wow.

[Kaleva]

48. Where did I say that?

I bet you won't be able to find a single sentence in all the posts I've made here where I said such a thing.

You may be joking around and think that use of guns for home or self defense is a big joke. That's your right. I take it seriously.

[treestar]

51. Robber was using lethal force

and might have used it anyway. Someone aiming at you with a gun is likely enough.

[Kaleva]

64. As I said, the shop owner may not had an avenue of escape

I don't know if there was an exit to the shipowners right. If so, he could have ducked, used the counter as cover and vacated the store.

It's a really risky move to make a play for a gun, a shotgun in this case, while the baddy already has his gun aimed at you.

[Polybius]

75. He didn't use lethal force

He only shot his arm off.

[lpbk2713]

15. The rifle rounds probably cost more than the bad guy could afford.

I wouldn't be surprised if the weapon was empty.

[Red Mountain]

37. I wouldn't bet my life on that, would you?

The rifle cost a lot. Ammo is relatively cheap.

[Polybius]

76. It wasn't empty

One of the charges was that he had a loaded illegal firearm without a license.

[fescuerescue]

17. Hopefully the store owner get's charged as well as the robbers

Store owner isn't judge and jury and in no jurisdiction, is the penalty for shoplifting getting an arm taken off.

[sarisataka]

21. Shoplifting?

I never have heard of armed robbery referred to as shoplifting.

[ripcord]

24. Screw that

The guy came through the door, pointed an assault rifle at the owner of the store and told him to put his hands up. You need a dictionary because that fits no one's definition of shoplifting. He deserved to be running out the door screaming repeatedly "he shot my arm off!". They all need to be charged for the heart attack they caused the owner which occurred the the course of their crime.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

25. WTF

Please tell me you're not serious.

What kind of crazy talk is this?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

26. Shoplifting?

Methinks you need to look up the difference between shoplifting and armed robbery.
You're just trolling here aren't you.

[Raine]

27. "shoplifting"??? WTF!!! nt

[fescuerescue]

31. No evidence that they indended harm.

they just wanted to steal.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

32. Oh, so you're willing to trust the armed robber's good intentions?

You can be a victim if you want, that's your right, however, others have a right to not be a victim.

[Raine]

33. So the shop owner should just assume that the armed robber

pointing a gun at him means no intended harm. When a thief comes in with a gun whether they intend to harm or not the victim is not going to take the chance that the weapon won't be used. When you are committing a crime especially with a weapon getting shot is the risk you take.

[Red Mountain]

38. Pointing a gun at somebody is misdemeanor assault in NC

Loaded or not.

[ripcord]

41. Thankfully the local sheriff doesn't agree with you.

The sheriff knows that people have a right to defend themselves and someone pointing a banned assault weapon at someone during the course of a crime is without a doubt a threat. Hopefully these guys will be gone for a long time since they are facing up to eight years just for violating California's AWB.

[sarisataka]

43. Here is where I have trouble understanding the protocols

Should you be out shopping and encounter a person carrying a pistol in a holster while they are shopping you should holler gun, leave the store, complain to management, call the police police and even consider physically attacking that person if you are suitably armed with a can of beans or other such item. Reason being you do not know their intentions and they could snap and just start shooting people.

However if a person comes into a store to rob it with an AR15 that is not even legal in that jurisdiction and they're pointing it at people you should not do anything. If you dare to take action against them you should be charged greater even than they are. Reason being there is no indication they are there to cause harm.


Could you please clarify when a person is allowed to defend themselves?

[ShazzieB]

63. If I was out shopping and saw someone with a pistol in a holster, I would not act as described here,

My exact actions would depending on where I was. If I was in a state where open carry is legal, I would simply stay as far away from that dude as possible, get my shopping done, and get the hellout.

If I was in a state or locality where open carry is against the law, I would get as far away from the dude as I could (after carefully memorizing a physical description of him), go someplace where he couldn't hear me, and call police, giving the the description I just memorized. I would also inform store personnel that the cops are coming and why and share his physical description with them. Then I would wait for the cops.

The last thing I would do is risk upsetting him by screaming or attacking him. I think that would very foolhardy to say the least. And the location matters greatly, because there are places in this country where it's quite legal to openly walk around with firearms, holstered or not. If I was in say, Texas, and called the cops on that guy, they'd probably laugh their asses off and hang up on me.

Where I live (and many other places), that shit is not legal, in which case, quietly calling the cops WITHOUT making him aware of it would be the way to go. If he becomes aware he's being reported, he's probably going to make a run for it, so the last thing I would want to do is tip him off.

[treestar]

53. Use of deadly force

the gun the guy had is the factor that counts - using that, no one you threaten with it is required to determine whether or not you "just wanted to steal." How was the clerk to know that? How do you know that?

[Straw Man]

56. Say what?

No evidence that they indended harm.

they just wanted to steal.

If a person points a gun at me in the course of a robbery, I assume that they intend harm. If I thought they didn't, I would just laugh and tell them to go fuck themselves. It's "Your money or your life," remember? That's the whole point of having the gun.

Never trust your life to the good intentions of the person who is robbing you at gunpoint.

[SYFROYH]

61. No evidence of intent to harm except for pointing a rifle at the store owner

That alone is a threat of harm.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

62. I almost choked on that one. nt

[Ace Rothstein]

65. Probably the worst take I've ever seen on DU.

[Zeitghost]

85. In what world

Is pointing a firearm at someone not a indication that they intend to do harm?

This pro criminal, soft on crime attitude is what contributes to people wanting more guns.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

28. I'll take the hide.

You're nuts.

[GoodRaisin]

30. Nothing wrong with the store owners actions. nt

[Zeitghost]

42. You're a bit mistaken

He didn't have his arm blown off for shoplifting, he had it blown off for threatening somebody's life with a rifle.

[BlackSkimmer]

46. Shoplifiting?

Really?

[SYFROYH]

49. Is this satire?

[treestar]

52. He was being threatened with deadly force

that's enough in the law to use deadly force in return.

[ShazzieB]

60. EXACTLY.

Exactly, absolutely, positively, no question, he was being threatened with deadly force.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is being completely unrealistic.

[Mysterian]

72. LMAO

[Polybius]

77. There's always that one person

Come on, man. They arrived in a stolen car too. They were all rotten to the core, and have likely killed before.

[Raine]

22. Good for the store owner

this should make would be a robbers think twice before committing a robbery.

[dalton99a]

23. Excellent.

[tenderfoot]

34. But I thought the weapon the robber used was more effective for protection...

I guess a decent shotgun like the store owner used is a better option.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

36. Just the sound of a 12ga racking should be enough to make one crap their pants. nt

[Red Mountain]

39. The first shot on target is the best protection

Not sure exactly what his setup was.

[TheBlackAdder]

55. A nice Remington 870 will make anyone think twice. A model for everyone.

[Straw Man]

57. More effective for protection against multiple assailants, I'd say.

The store owner won the race. That, more than his choice of weapon, is how he prevailed. At close range, with a powerful long gun, a hit is a hit.

[ripcord]

58. I heard a interview with him today

He said he wasn't going to let someone else decide that he was going to die today.

[SYFROYH]

50. I think the robber still had two arms attached. He's a liar too.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

68. Tactical shotguns are the best close range self defense device

to use against armed assailants, like violent home invading MAGAt fascist lunatics, robbers, and other armed bad guys.

Most folks, (like me), can't hit the broad side of a barn with a pistol.

If armed idiots try to invade our home, they will most unhappy with the prize that they find behind door number one. We live in a rural area full of violent, fanatical fascist MAGAts, and we decided that the threat of them going off the rails on the Qrazy train was substantial enough for us to arm ourselves against home invasion.

[Polybius]

78. Here's the video

[ripcord]

80. The tables turned really fast

The robber was singing a different toon after the store owner slapped him with reality.

[Zeitghost]

86. Hopefully they

can throw in additional fines for parking in a handicap space.

[BlackSkimmer]

79. Perhaps this kind of thing will be a deterrent.

Hope the idiot who had his shoulder shot feels the pain.