Was the attack upon our Capitol worse then the attack on the WTC on September 11th?

[kentuck]

Granted, there may have been more deaths on 9/11 but was it as much of a threat to our democracy as the attack upon our Capitol?

I tend to think not.

Our country was more or less united after the attack of 9/11 but is very much divided after the attack of January 6th. We should have been united but we are not. We are a deeply divided nation.

Our country has been infected with propaganda, lies, and demagoguery. They have effectively played one American against the other.

In my opinion, the attack upon our Capitol has done more damage to our country than did the attack of 9/11.

[Elessar Zappa]

1. Jan. 6th was worse.

It was a coup attempt to install a dictator and destroy our form of government.

[jimfields33]

8. 9/11 was horrid. Changed our country for the worse

We lost thousands on the aftermath as well as day off. We spent trillions we really didn’t have for that day. January 6th was a bunch of fools who failed.

[Bev54]

16. The difference is that the 9/11 attack was from enemies from without the US

1/6 was from within. I don't think the two should even be compared, very different attacks. If people are going to compare, 9/11 brought the country together, 1/6 divided the country.

[Irish_Dem]

2. 1/6 was much worse because our country was attacked by its own citizens.

Much more of a threat to democracy than 9/11.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

3. They were both terrorist attacks,

the difference being that the 9/11 attack didn't threaten our democracy, whereas the J6 attack was a direct attack upon our democracy by the Mango Menace and his minions and the Trumpsters.

[catbyte]

4. J6 was way worse. 9/11 was an "Us Against Them" scenario like Pearl Harbor; J6

was "Us Against Us" and that is a much graver threat to the U.S.

[SamKnause]

5. Yes.

[MagickMuffin]

6. The attack on the Capitol was done by Americans encouraged to do so by the POTUS

9-11 was done by foreigners and to me the financial system, even though they hit the Pentagon. It didn't undo our Democracy.


J6 was a direct attack on our Democracy, planned to cause mayhem and dismantle our Constitution.

[sop]

7. Rupert Murdoch has done more damage to our country than any terrorist.

[uponit7771]

9. AQ could never bring down democracy or America but MAGA can

[OLDMDDEM]

11. Only if we let it happen.

[uponit7771]

12. +1,

[BannonsLiver]

10. Will be interesting to see how much recency bias plays into the responses

From the looks of things, quite a bit.

[Dave says]

13. We agree, however nothing is so black and white

5 people died on or shortly after 1/6. 3,000+ people died at the WTC on 9/11. The horror of the two is incomparable -- it's apples and oranges. 1 million+ have died and many multiples more lives immiserated with the unleashing of the military-industrial-complex under the 'War on Terror' rubric. Even counting the 3,000, comparably few Americans have died. On these terms of tribalism, 9/11 far exceeds 1/6 in terms of Horror and Terror.

The disuniting and future American deaths and immiseration attributable to 1/6 will probably exceed 9/11. However, the 'death' and crippling of our institutions and civility - the dividing of America - will far exceed 9/11.

A comparative value judgement probably depends on which we value more, 'us' vs. 'them'. Myself, we're all 'them' on this pale blue dot called earth. But even from that perspective it's hard to judge. It's kinda the dilemma on the crashing jet plane. Do you put the mask on your child first or on yourself. If you don't take care of yourself, ourselves, Americans first (I cringe on that last idea), there's little we can do for anyone else.

[malthaussen]

14. Worse. 9/11 was not an existential threat, a coup is. n/t

[Johnny2X2X]

15. 9/11 was worse because it so successfully weakened our Democracy

Since 9/11 the country has gotten weaker and weaker because our national unity was destroyed. 9/11 hurt our Democracy in ways we'll never fully understand and it turned 1 party into anti American fascists. The modern Republican Party wants to turn the US into a Taliban like ruled theocracy and autocracy. America as a beacon of freedom died with our actions in response to 9/11.

[Sympthsical]

17. 9/11 profoundly altered history

Not only from a foreign policy stand point where millions were killed or displaced in the aftermath and whose effects tens of millions are continuing to live through. It also changed how the American government operates and conditioned American society to tolerate unprecedented powers of the security and surveillance state. We literally gave up our freedoms in reaction to it, and everyone seems kind of fine with it.

Whatever J6 is, it was not that. Nor will it have the same rippling effects across the globe.

J6 is what is on TV this week, politically speaking. Most people aren't nearly as engaged with it as people who are political junkies online and cable news viewers. Almost everyone was engaged after 9/11 - we had no choice in the matter. It was all anyone discussed for years. I don't hear a peep out of people about J6 unless I actively seek out discussions on it.

We often mistake what we engage with as the most important thing that is happening, that kind of self-involved myopia that prevents seeing the objective with clarity. The kinds of things we navel gaze over or obsess with on social media are often not nearly the most affecting item from a cultural or historical perspective. By next year or the year after, we'll be on to some other thing. Hell, half of what we discuss doesn't make it into the next week in most spaces.

J6 is important. Changes must be made so it doesn't happen again. Criminals need to be held to account.

But it was not 9/11. Not close. Not comparable. J6 did some psychic damage, I think, to some parts of the country. However, limbs aren't flying, countries aren't being run into the ground, revolutions aren't being waged, and demographics aren't shifting due to a flood of refugees.

Sometimes people get to thinking what they stare at all day is the most important thing. Plato's allegory of the cave writ large.

It prevents some from seeing the bigger picture. I mean, these are spaces where some people repeatedly say they don't think inflation is a big deal. So, take it with all that salt.

[ProfessorGAC]

18. +1

Summed up my thoughts nicely.

[AZProgressive]

30. The country will never be the same after 1/6

The next Presidential election could possibly be stolen and we will lose our Democracy. We have a lot of election deniers running for election posts and many of them are successful. Also a sitting President led that attack.

The reason why it gets a lot less attention is because they weren’t foreign Muslims. The fact that they are mostly white is why it is being ignored.

[Sympthsical]

31. We could blatantly lose, too

I never underestimate these things.

But I understand the draw of the dramatic. The more fearful and panicked people get, the easier it is to get them to go along with just about anything. The more eyeballs the media get.

Well, that's not me. There are problems. We see them. We're sorting them.

We are not all going to die.

Not yet, anyway.

The 9/11 comparison is detached from reality.

[AZProgressive]

32. We always have had a peaceful transition of power

Until Trump. I live in Arizona so I wonder if my vote will count in the future. They objected to Arizona’s electoral votes at the same time they stormed the Capitol. That bothers me because my vote never counted since the Republican won all the electoral votes. The one time the Democrat won the state they tried to cancel my vote.

I didn’t have to worry about whether my vote will count or not or that I should move to a safe blue state after 9/11 like I do after 1/6.

[xocetaceans]

19. Roughly stated...

The idea that division started after the 1/6 Insurrection is not accurate. There is division between the 1% and the 99%. There is division between the politicians who support people over corporations, the politicians who support corporations over people, and the politicians who think corporations are people.

Bernie Sanders is the best example of a politician who advocates for people first. AOC is another example of such a politician. There are others as well.

If more Democratic politicians sided more clearly with people over corporate interests, the division would diminish greatly. Sure, there are groups that are ideologically, dogmatically and firmly opposed to anything but their own particular view of the world - i.e., the GOP. There will never be any help from the GOP. However, there are enough pseudo-Democrats (i.e., Manchin and Sinema) that the Democrats never quite seem to get things done for the people. Corporations have no problem getting what they would like, though. This has caused a division between working people and the Democratic Party.

Play that division forward from the 1990s and Trump (possibly with some outside help) is what the result is. The 1/6 Insurrection is purely the fault of Trump, though: he is its specific author. (It is a sign that democracy is in serious trouble in the US.)

To help heal democracy, first, Trump needs to spend the rest of his life in prison for attempting a coup, and, second, (the GOP is not going to help with this) the Democrats have to follow the ideas of politicians like Sanders and AOC and truly reunite the country around a well-paid middle-class that has universal, single-payer healthcare (including dental care, vision care and elder care), free education through PhD (if the student can pass the exams), equal rights for all people (a fetus is not a person, so anti-choice Democrats need not to be tolerated), etc.

If such an approach were taken, it seems likely that the ideologically dogmatic GOP members would be a non-functional minority of maybe 35% of the country. Over time and with more education, that might lessen. But always putting corporate interests over the people's interests has led the country to where it is.

So, yes, the 1/6 Insurrection was worse than 9/11 in that it is a sign of serious internal problems in this country. The GOP wants a corporate theocracy. It's up to the Democrats to chart a better path forward.

[we can do it]

20. Yes

[EnergizedLib]

21. Arguably

I think 9/11 is sadder in that more lives were lost, but I think January 6 was sadder because we were attacked from within, not by radicals from another part in the world who wanted us dead.

This was us, people who walk among us, who wanted to dismantle our institutions and betray our values and everything we stand for.

[Raine]

22. September 11 absolutely the WORST nt

[Baggies]

23. 9/11

I’m interested in how this board viewed these events.

You’ve been here since 2001. Tell me, how many at this site thought 9/11 was an “inside job” and that Bush either knew or let it happen? Or were making interesting connections between the Bush family and the House of Saud? Or were talking about the history of Prescott Bush drawing all sorts of fascinating conclusions?

That’ll give me some insight into how to view current postings regarding J6.

[Novara]

24. They are different events and can't fairly be compared

One was an attack by outsiders. The other was an attack by insiders. There of course will be more division when a country attacks its own than when outsiders attack us.

When outsiders attack us, we are united against the outsiders. No one agrees with the reason they attacked.

But when we are attacked by our own people, we can't be united. It just isn't that simple. People will be loyal for all sorts of reasons - they are family, they are neighbors, etc. They are known to us. Some will agree with the reason we were attacked.

It's much easier to hate "the other."

The only thing these attacks have in common is that they were done by terrorists.

And don't forget that 9/11 united us until Bush used it as a pretext for war. In the wrong country.

[spanone]

26. On January 6th, Americans were the terrorists.

They were both terrorist attacks.

[malaise]

27. Yes - way worse n/t

[Bettie]

28. They were different

9/11 was horrifying, it took away our sense of safety in a lot of ways and the right wing took advantage of that in ways that we still feel today.

January 6th was an insurrection by citizens of our own country. That makes it feel worse. They aren't supposed to be our mortal enemies, yet they want us dead (yes, I believe that many of them do) and they have zero respect for our nation and government. I may not always agree with government, but I wouldn't try to overthrow it or install a dictator.

In my opinion, January 6th was worse, because it showed us just how awful so many among us are, and that elected lawmakers are among those who want to destroy what has been built over the years, simply out of greed, for power as well as profit.

[Beringia]

29. Yes, it was an inside job which I think is worse n/t

[Iggo]

33. Too soon to tell.

Not looking good.

[Amishman]

34. Not remotely in the same league. 9/11 was a thousand times worse.

I can't even begin to imagine the thought process that could pretend to equivalate the two.

We're still dealing with the fallout of 9/11 over twenty years later. It broke our country and the world.

[treestar]

35. 911 worse as to loss of life

and resulting in war in Afghanistan.

I see your point though. It did nothing to attack our Democracy. Nothing happened from that attack itself. Some of our reactions to that attack, being willing to trade liberty for safety or endorse torture, did attack our country's basic premises. But 1/6 was intended to do far worse than that.

[Littlered]

36. 1-6 was worse in many ways.

It was an overt attack on our democracy. It has divided our country and given a voice to the lowest common denominator of our society. If it wasn’t for some true patriots we would now be living in what many might consider a dictatorship.

911 served to unite most of us against a common enemy. Even though that one act led to many missteps, it wasn’t initiated by our own people against our own people.

[marmar]

37. By far.

Our biggest terror threat is what it's always been, and it's not people from the Middle East.

[ForgedCrank]

38. Not to

downplay the seriousness of Jan 6th events, but I'm surprised this is even a question in anyone's mind.
The 9/11 attacks killed more people than Pearl Harbor and resulted in some very serious privacy law problems that we can't seem to get rid of.
In my opinion, comparing the two events is obscene.

[kentuck]

41. I think it is the best comparison we can make.

Unless, of course, you believe the attack upon the Capitol and the attempted coup was no threat at all, then perhaps the attack of 9 /11 may seem the worst of our lifetime? I do not believe it is obscene to compare the two. I do believe it is obscene to minimize it as nothing more than a protest that got out of control.

[ForgedCrank]

42. I said

no such thing regarding the Jan 6th incidents. I find it to be a very serious event.
But comparing it to the 9/11 attacks? I don't think so.
Near 3,000 people were murdered on 9/11. There is no comparison here.

[kentuck]

43. You said it was "obscene".

Words have meaning.

[ForgedCrank]

46. You are

all over the place here.
You previously accused me of "you believe the attack upon the Capitol and the attempted coup was no threat at all".
That is ludicrous, I said no such thing. your new reply has nothing to do with that.
And yes, comparing these two events, one in which 3,000 Americans were murdered, is absolutely obscene.

[malaise]

39. Well known hawk Richard Haas was on Morning JoeScum today

He said the greatest threat to the USA is internal - the threats to democracy.
He said the system has broken down and is under threat.

When you have a fascist, racist ex-president who believes loyalty at all levels should be to him and not the Constitution, you are in deep trouble. And more than a few ReTHUGs share his views.

[Paladin]

40. In the long run, 1/6 was the worst of the two incidents. (nt)

[Tommy Carcetti]

45. As one wise American President once said,

"At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

[kairos12]

47. As of today I would say no because

that attack got us in Iraq. The greatest foreign policy disaster in U.S. history.

Ask me again after the election, though.