can we find a little compassion for the mindfucked among us?

[mopinko]

i'm going to make an op here out of my reply to this thread-
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100217040402

but i want to add- some day when this whole story comes out we will all see that putler and a handful of oligarchs pulled off the most successful psyop in human history.
not just here but all.over.the.world. some will never recover, but many will open their eyes.
we have to be there to give them a hand up, and welcome them back onto society. we dont need to love them or be their bff's.
but we need to find the grace to treat them like human in need of and deserving mercy.

i have 1 trumpkin in my life. ex bf
met in '15 when this whole thing was a joke. i was the other woman.
he doesnt have a racist bone is his bone either. he collects winter coats, makes go bags, and hands them out under the bridges in the middle of the night when it gets below zero. lives in a mexican hood, and loves it.
he's as decent a man as i know.

he was a bernie fan. and we know they were targeted.
he is likewise very intelligent. a defrocked laywer. for growing weed. his life was one long hustle, still paying student loans on a gold plated sheepskin he only got to use for a few yrs.
the lady is a barely treated bipolar. i have axis 1 ppl in my life. they're hard to love. and if you dont draw a line and say- this much and no more- you lose yourself. i never thought of him as a cheater.

we split up 1/20. hadnt seen him til recently. i know a lot of his friends, and none of them speak to him any more. i almost feel responsible, cuz i know if i dont kick him out, he doesnt fall all the way down that hole.
but he seems in a good space. he's still working mostly remote, he isnt the ball of stress he was. we had too much catching up to do to get into any of that. but 1 friend told me to tell him to call. said he would, but i figured he wouldnt so i poked his friend to do so, him, he'll talk to.

i dont think ppl can keep up that nonsense unless they are in a steady state of stress. he seemed at peace, and got much healthier. not sure if i'll see him again, but our paths do cross.
he's used to being the smartest guy in the room, but he knew if i was in the room, it was even, at best. he also knows i walk the walk. he respects me. i think if anyone can reach him, i can.
were good friends, an old pair of shoes.
i have hope. i'll let y'all know.

[claudette]

1. Sorry

Not from me. I've had enough of them. Searched again - Can't find one iota of sympathy.

[Meadowoak]

2. Same here.

[purr-rat beauty]

3. only the most vulnerable like my elderly mom..

...for those who can dig deeper into their wit and still find no redeeming values, I'll pass. They are a threat in my eyes following JAN 6th and the lack of remorse or insight so many of them have shown proves to me that ultimately they will do harm to our communities.

[jimfields33]

4. Sounds like you are a great person.

Life’s short. Do what you can for him, that’s all you can do. I’m impressed with you!

[demmiblue]

19. Lol... "i was the other woman." n/t

[Beakybird]

5. I'll never be intimate with someone I need to argue with that it's not ok to put babies in cages.

[Ponietz]

6. Any studies of lead poisoning in metamagatry?

They appear incapable of important critical thinking skills, of fully using the neocortex, driven by their limbic system, the Id. For the Id anything goes.

Primitive archetypes, as Jung put it, originate in the Id.
Their hero is a Mephistopheles archetype—a telltale mark of cognitive defect or immaturity.

Perhaps this phenomenon is organic brain damage due to unclean air, food, and water, along with predisposition. Processed foods have made their mark already.

As to the culture it came from, indoctrination, and conscious choice I have no compassion. These thoughts are reserved this week for the Monarch Butterfly, the Sequoia and the Pilot Whale.

[2naSalit]

7. Interesting...

I was thinking similar thoughts yesterday as I drove deep into humperville to visit a friend and check in at an event that was taking place after a three year hiatus, most of the participants are humpers. It's about 70 minutes away.

They were rather subdued. We avoid talking politics but one of the group from the event is running for a nonpartisan office and will probably be okay as she isn't a rabid humper and is normally reasonable.

I really feel for some of them, they were caught up in the fervor and didn't know how to get out once they were in. Others are devout assholes and racists.

Otherwise, I was thankful to see some of them, a few are in their 90s and still carrying on. A few others I was surprised to see and one, whom I really wanted to see and was oblivious to his health issues, is now completely blind! Still themselves and they recognized me immediately by voice, we had a nice visit. I am glad they survived two rounds of covid, the first pre-vaccine. The blindness is from diabetes.

Several are farmer/ranchers who lost a lot in the recent flood in June.

It was an interesting day that ended with a succession of those massive cumulus cloud, storms like storm chasers post, that look like they would cover a few small states simultaneously... big, billowing behemoths with a flying saucer on top that dump small lakes in their wake.

It was kind of metaphoric, a sort of tempestuous but cleansing event all the same, washed all the bugs off the windshield too.

You have a point, of course. It's hard to help those who will also bite you, but for the sake of saving our country and correcting its path, that is what we must attempt with purpose. Might not work but is worth trying.

[mopinko]

10. i've read a bit about cult deprograming.

it's about making a crack where the light can get it. for some it's science. this is one of those areas where he just shuts up if i am in the room. the last time he tried that, around a bunch of his friends including a pharmacist, we all said the exact same thing at the same time.

love your last para. some of us are empaths who have been harshly tried these last 6 yrs, and are bone tired. but we cant ignore our hard wiring.

[2naSalit]

15. Indeed.

I learned it through experience, I have at least one of everything, with the exception of convicted murderer, in my family and have had to deal with them in depth. There is a spot in their understanding where you can link them to reality but it can be tough to find and hard to navigate. Then again, if you want to bring them back from their fantasy, that's the best way to get there. Shocking them, psychologically, is only helpful to a point when it is successful.

I also agree, we who have been pushed beyond the limit in trying to help them are exhausted.

[ecstatic]

22. So interesting. nt

[48656c6c6f20]

8. Not even close

After the 2nd impeachment if you still supported that thing, they should have been expatriated to another country.

[mopinko]

11. sad to see someone on du judging who should be an american and who shouldnt.

[48656c6c6f20]

24. Not sad at all

It's time. If you support a man that wanted to overthrow the USA then you got to go. You're a traitor.

[betsuni]

9. People are weak. It can't be helped.

[mopinko]

12. so they need a hand.

we're all in this together.

[betsuni]

13. Yes.

[Master Jah-Remi]

14. No.

These 4 statements can all be true at the same time:

You can't help but feel compassion for the mindfucked.
You feel this way because you are decent.
The mindfucked may not deserve your compassion.
Your compassion for those whom may not deserve it, may very well be giving safe emotional harbor to those who have stripped you of your right to control your body.

Idk, I guess it's hard to criticize compassion without sounding like a Bond villain; but here I am. I guess compassion is good; great even, unless it weakens your resolve to vote against fascism. And that's how I describe people like your ex (and my brother and my former best friend), drones for fascists.. People who have fallen so far down the rabbit hole of consiracies that they cant tell they have fully embraced fascism. They made choices based on the bigotry they've held inside this whole time. The mindfucking didn't just strike them like a bolt from the blue. They chose it. They continue to choose it.

[mopinko]

32. he honestly doesnt have a bigoted bone is his body.

those that came to it from that pov were already lost. that i cant argue.

it wasnt a bolt. in fact, another path this all took w the left was the whole alt med thing, and he's in on that. i know a few ppl who post natural news memes, and were antivax/mask, big time.
he fell for the idea that if you rly parse the news, you can find the real truth. that's very appealing to a guy who prides himself on being the smartest person in the room. and we here all know that there's something to that.

i guess i'm just obsessed w the human psyche.

[ShazzieB]

39. I hear you on being obsessed with the human psyche.

Boy, do I hear you, because that is a HUGE obsession of mine.

The Trump humpers in my life are all relatives that I never was particularly close to. Avoiding them takes a lot less effort than making contact with them would, and I am happy to ignore their existence for the most part. I honestly don't know what I would do if someone I was really close to you on the MAGA train, and I would just as soon never find out.

I never get tired of trying to figure out what makes people tick, though. Human beings are a lot more complex than a lot of people would like to assume, and I personally believe that very, very few are 100% bad OR 100% good. (Please note that I said "very few," not "none." If 7 years of Trump as presidential candidate, potus, and ex-potus have taught me anything, it's that there ARE people in the world who are evil, mostly, if not entirely.)

But evil or not, humans fascinate me, and what fascinates me most is the complexity and the contradictions that most humans encompass, whether we know it or not.

[mopinko]

40. lol. i'm at the age where it behooves me to figure out

what mommy issues look like. file under- shit i never wanted to know.

[choie]

16. Nope

Not an ounce, not a scintilla, nothing.

[haele]

17. I feel the same sorrow and compassion as I do to an alcoholic.

They did get themselves into it, through avoidance or weakness, which admittedly we all suffer from.
I generally approach being near them as accepting them as them as they are, avoid getting caught up their drama but keeping an eye out to the danger they can cause. They can't be considered friends, even though I will keep to my ethics and respect them as human, whether or not they respect me.
I don't consider any creature an enemy unless they are attacking me or others for reasons outside of their survival.

For whatever reason, Trumpers (and other conspiracy theorists) made their choice to support him and his chaotic world of fear, hate, greed and lies - and no matter how "nice" or familial they can be, they're still responsible for those destructive choices.
One may not think they're a racist, sexist, or criminal, but if they actively support one as a leader, then they're really not that far away from being one.

I will accept Trumpers in the "friend" category only if they're willing to admit they got in over their head and know there is a problem they helped to make that they need to work to fix. And denounce him and his ilk for what they are while they're working on it.

Haele

[mopinko]

33. well, maybe that explains me.

my da was a drunk. he died when i was a teen. i thought i hated him, and was stunned by my grief. it wasnt until the last 10 yrs, since i started my farm, that i started to appreciate all the gifts he gave me.
i also know why he drank- i inherited an autoimmune disease from him and he stated drinking when he started getting sick.
i had forgotten how much i loved him when i was little, and how much he loved me.

i wish i could talk to him one more time. so maybe i just dont want to wear those shoes again.

[Samrob]

18. Nope! They enjoy the lay. nt

[nini]

20. No.

good Germans don’t impress me.

[kacekwl]

21. Nope, watching Sunday Morning today

where Ted Koppel was asking people on a tour trolley questions about election fraud and Jan. 6th. The answers received were dead people voted for Biden to BLM bused hundreds to the capital and everything in between. These people will never change, Ever.

[mopinko]

23. ftr- i'm not talking about anyone who still believes the bs.

i'll leave that to the pros.
and i'm not takin him back either. but its' called grace, and we can all use a little more in our lives. both giving and receiving mercy is good for both parties.

[kacekwl]

27. I'm really surprised

you could find one who stopped believing.

[mopinko]

31. i dont know that he has.

we didnt talk about it, but i know he's not in the hyper charged state any more. there's no sense talking to anyone in that state. he's at peace. so i dont think he can still be in that spot.

[Paladin]

25. Democrats' typical rush to be nice to our enemies will be the death of us.

The death of us, and of our country.

Way too early for such optimistic glad tidings. Count me out.

[Vinca]

26. No . . . sorry. And I question your friend's intelligence to get sucked into MAGA.

[mopinko]

30. well, maybe you should find out more a out how they did it.

like, christopher wylie's book- mindfucked.
they did it exactly like isis does it. they took research meant to stop that, and weaponized it.
and it worked. it's going to be a slow dawning, but 10-15-20 yrs from now, we will marvel at what they pulled off.

smart ppl can be more susceptible cuz they think they cant be conned. they're the ones who fall hardest for the- no one knows this, but let me tell you the real story.

[Hekate]

38. Once upon a time, a very long time ago, I took my husband & teens to see a family therapist...

It was an interesting experience for us adults — hard to tell what the kids got out of it, but the guy said some things hubby never forgot. (One was that we were the most counter-culture family he had ever met, because none of us was motivated by money and status per se. I thought he was joking — he wasn’t.)

But the other thing was — and this is germane to your point — that the hardest people of all to change in therapy were the exceptionally bright. This may be your friend.

[Lucinda]

28. The right has been pushing lies via radio and Fox

since the Fairness Doctrine was ended(1989-ish) So... a huge portion of the country has been given twisted info and outright lies. We lost the requirement of providing opposing views. So many of the folks believed the lies once they went unchallenged.
I always try to find the how and why of extreme points of view...

[chowder66]

29. I'm a compassionate person

but it's reduced to its most basic form (wishing them no harm) in cases where a person shows no remorse.

[Hekate]

34. Mopinko...

[mopinko]

36. ty.

i sincerely hope i can report back good news. for as much as folks have written ppl off, i know how that works, and usually it's happy day when that door opens again.

[ismnotwasm]

35. You can't support Trump and not be a racist and a sexist

[mopinko]

37. well, he just isnt.

he's an old hippie who not only loves everyone, he'll put his body in the way of anyone trying to attack a vulnerable person. saw him do it.