Goodbye, gas water heater --- some of the IRA changes...

[mysteryowl]

Goodbye, gas water heater

A suite of rebates and tax credits will make it cheaper for Minnesotans to retrofit their homes to cut fossil fuel use.

Homeowners could get $8,000 toward the cost of installing a heat pump for home climate control; $1,750 for a heat-pump-fed water heater; $840 for both electric clothes dryers and electric stoves; and $1,600 for insulation.

Heat pumps draw thermal energy from outside air, the ground or water and push it inside a house in the winter; in the summer, they do the reverse. They've been more popular so far in rural Minnesota, as an alternative to propane heating systems.

Some of the rebates are for upgrades to accommodate higher electricity usage, such as $4,000 for larger breaker boxes or $2,500 for wiring.

"It's the type of thing that isn't necessarily sexy, but it's going to be really, really important for this energy transition," said Joe Dammel, of the St. Paul-based nonprofit Fresh Energy.

The different household income limits for the new rebates could exclude some interested customers, said Richard Graves, director of the Center for Sustainable Building Research at the University of Minnesota.

"This is the kind of stuff we need to be scaling as fast as we possibly can, and I'm just worried that might slow things down a little bit," Graves said.

https://www.startribune.com/5-changes-minnesotans-will-likely-see-from-the-historic-climate-bill/600198133/

This looks good!

[jimfields33]

1. I'm just wondering whether the population will get behind electric stoves

I mean I have one, but I do know some who will not be happy giving it up. Chefs in particular.

[mysteryowl]

2. I understand your comments, but it is just a learning curve

[hunter]

14. The better inductive electrics are very similar to gas in their responsiveness...

... and far, far, superior to gas when it comes to indoor air quality and energy efficiency.

Gas stoves emit a cloud of carcinogens and other toxins.

[doc03]

18. I have electric but would prefer gas but it is

not available here.

[DBoon]

27. get a standalone gas grill for those items that absolutely require it.

maybe 95% of all cooking can be done with induction stoves.

A small gas grill would be a specialty item like a hibachi.

[unc70]

3. Gas cooktops are bad for your health

The indoor air pollution is a serious health issue.

[mysteryowl]

4. very true

It burns off various chemicals. Horrible

[PortTack]

5. The one exception I would like to see are for whole house tankless water heaters

Yes, you can get a small electric unit for underneath your sink, but each sink has to have a unit- kitchen and every bathroom. The technology is not there yet for a whole house tankless electric water heater.

The tankless water heaters are a real savings, only burning gas when hot water is called for, which isn’t much

[Dave says]

9. I have a whole house electric water heater

On exit: Oops. I have a whole-house tankless gas water heater, not electric. Hot water on demand. Works very well.

[PortTack]

15. Yes we do to. wanted to go electric, but it's not available.works well, saves a bunch

[Disaffected]

11. Both are readily available,

gas or electric. A whole house electric water heater takes a lot of juice to run however (you would need at least a 200 amp service).

[PortTack]

17. Not really....not whole house. We looked into it and this pretty much sums up what we were told

Because, although the electric tankless units do conserve energy when the heating coils aren’t active, once they do activate, they draw a great deal of electrical power in short intervals. The Eco-18 model required two 40-amp breakers for installation, and it had a 75-amp draw. According to the electrician we consulted, the house in question was already approaching maximum 200-amp electrical capacity before adding the new tankless unit. He explained that if the tankless unit were to kick on at the same time as another high-amp appliance, such as an air-conditioner, then the lights in the house would begin to flicker and the electrical supply would be too strained to power everything.

https://extremehowto.com/the-big-draw-of-tankless-electric-water-heaters/

The smaller under sink units, yes, not whole house

[Disaffected]

23. A 75 amp draw on a 200 amp service

is not particularly high so I don't know where your electrician gets that idea unless the house in question already had a shit load of other electrical draws.. Some whole house heaters draw even more (150 amp) which would certainly be excessive for a 200 amp service but 400 amp services are available in many areas:

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/rheem-performance-0-5-1-0-gpm-36kw-5-year-tankless-electric-water-heater/1001070389

Sure, they are not at all practical for a lot of houses but they are available if you have the service capacity to handle it.

[Grins]

25. I put tankless into the house I built...

…5 bedroom/bath, 3,500 Sq. feet. Actually installed two of those units to run in parallel for those times I had guests filling the house.

Ran beautifully! And My electric bills were no different than my neighbors.

[CousinIT]

6. A new heat pump is in my near future. I will def. take advantage ...

...of any rebates/tax credits. Same w/ electric dryer.

[doc03]

19. Damn I had to buy a new one last year. nt

[GuppyGal]

7. I will be taking advantage of all of this.

[Saboburns]

8. Up the RA!

We haven't gone away you know. It's time the British government..

Oh whoops, my bad.

[Demsrule86]

10. I hate electric stoves and as for electric for heat...it is very expensive.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

20. Fairly cheap where I live.

I built my walls to R30 and use resistance heat. I'll be getting a heat pump installed to further reduce electrical usage.

[Raine]

21. I do too plus the power goes out where

I live often. At least I still have gas for my stove to cook and can still get hot water from my gas water heater.

[NickB79]

12. Damn it, I installed a heat pump 4 years ago

My electric provider had good rebates, but not $8000 good.

And we just got a new electric washer and dryer this spring.

But, I am looking at solar panels and a new water heater soon, so there's that at least.

[moonshinegnomie]

13. i have a gas stove

im seriously looking at induction for my next cooktop.
traditional electric stoves are a no go for me

[3catwoman3]

16. Some years ago, we spent several days with friends who had a heat pump.

They lived in northern Virginia at the time, and this was a winter visit.

I have never been so cold inside a house before or since. Totally inadequate.

[phylny]

22. I'm really surprised that

a heat pump is an option on Minnesota.

We have a heat pump in southern Virginia and our heat is just fine.

[NickB79]

24. I'm in Minnesota and have a heat pump

We also have a wood burning stove in the living room and a propane furnace.

The heat pump is tied into our ductwork and works from April to November, heating in spring and fall and functioning as the AC in summer. Mine is a Carrier that was only installed 4 years ago, and combined with our smart thermostat tied into the furnace controls, efficiently heats down to 20F. Below that, the system automatically switches to propane. We use a few hundred gallons of propane a year and also burn about a cord of oak a year, especially when it's -30F outside.

It still pays for itself after 7-8 years because propane is more expensive than natural gas, and it's way more efficient than a regular AC unit in summer, especially the last few years with lots of 90F days and high humidity.

The newest models are supposed to work down to 0F from what I've read.

[phylny]

26. Great info,

thanks!