It's starting to look like Trump did not fully understand the declassification of secret documents.

[fightforfreedom]

He understood it like a child would. He learned a president can declassify secrets. All you had to do was say it , sign a memo, done.

I don't think he understood there is a process when a president declassifies secrets. Just my opinion.

[Ocelot II]

1. More likely that he just didn't care.

[vlyons]

8. Bingo!

details, details. let some staffer deal with all the tedious boring stuff

[Ms. Toad]

2. Whether he had to follow the procedures set out

by prior presidents via executive order has not been legally tested yet. So we don't know how courts will ultimately rule on the matter.

[Solomon]

38. I'm so sick of this argument. Whether its been "tested" or not, there are rules to be followed.

I suppose he will pull a bunch of pardons, including one for himself, out of his ass, when he gets convicted. And people will say, "whether he can do this hasn't been tested."

[Ms. Toad]

39. You may be sick of the argument -

But your distate for it doesn't change how the legal system works.

There are no guarantees that his unorthodox method of declassification will not ultimately be upheld, since no one has ever taken a case to court about a president (who has unique classification authority) must follow the rules set out by his predecessors.

[Solomon]

41. Like I said, as long as its Trump, any ridiculous argument or excuse will do.

[Ms. Toad]

48. I hope not - but there aren't any guarantees,

particularly in a case of first impression.

[NutmegYankee]

44. Government requires evidence (record) of an decision.

Without some objective quality evidence (A signed memo or other record), the claim is void.

If he can't produce a record to back up his claimed method of declassification, he won't be able to make that claim in a federal court.

[Ms. Toad]

47. That has not been tested yet.

The president has the inherent ability to declassify information. The limitations on that authority were created by executive orders by previous presidents. No court has yet ruled whether those rules are binding on subsequent presidents.

Very few things are required to be in writing to constitute evidence in a court, federal or otherwise.

[NutmegYankee]

56. Sounds like a faith based argument to me. nt

[Ms. Toad]

59. Have you ever been on trial, or served on a jury?

Was every bit of evidence produced written? Watched a crime show on TV?

The law just doesn't work that way. If there is tangible evidence (including written), the rules of evidence provide ways of supporting a conclusion that it is what it purports to be. If the evidence is verbal, the rules of evidence rely on the jury to judge the veracity of the witness - supported by the fact that the person is testifying under the penalty of perjury. In addition, certain verbal evidence is generally excluded because it is unreliable (primarily hearsay evidence).

[NutmegYankee]

60. Thanks for making my case.

His chiefs of staff have stated there is no such order. Non one around him has backed up his claims. And then there are laws governing classified information and record keeping, which a verbal order would not follow.

[Ms. Toad]

63. You're not in trial yet.

What anyone says out of court is irrelevant to deciding the untested legal question. The jury, listening to Trump and to others who testify, would need to weight the veracity of each and they, not you, would decided who is telling the truth.

There are no laws about how the president is to declassify information. The rules that have traditionally followed have been set out by executive order. Trump has the inherent power to both issue new rules - and to declassify information. What is untested is whether he is bound by previous executive order OR would need to issue a new one before implementing a different procedure.

There are laws about record keeping - which is what he is being investigated for. He is not being investigated, specifically, for the records he has mishandled being classified. You might ask yourself why one of the top legal minds in the country isn't pursuing that aspect if it is the slam dunk you seem to think it is.

(Note: The nuclear information is not classified. It is restricted - and there are laws governing how it's level of restriction can be changed. Unlike classified information, the president does not have the power to change the restriction level of nuclear information. He is merely a tie-breaker in that situation. Guess what - they are pursuing him for having restricted nuclear information, since there is no question as to whether his unilateral actions could have restriction level on that information.)

[NutmegYankee]

64. Nothing is a slam dunk because 1/3 of the country is under his cult of personality.

And I have doubts any jury can be pulled together without at least one getting in. But I've got my decades of DOD knowledge and I'm 100% certain he can't do what he claimed.

[Ms. Toad]

66. DOD procedures

Have nothing to do with the constitutional authority of the president. He could not have done what he claims to have done in any other role than the president. But the president's constitutional authority is not bound by the DOD procedures.

Ultimately, the courts will have to decide whether he exceeded his constitutional authority.

[NutmegYankee]

72. I absolutely do not agree.

But continuing this discussion is pointless

[Kingofalldems]

70. He can't pardon himself for crimes after 12 noon Jan 20, 2021.

At least I hope not.

[Dysfunctional]

43. If the codewords on SECRET and TOP SECRET documents are readable,

then that is illegal. Codewords themselves are classified, they can't just be unclassified.

[Ms. Toad]

50. The president has the inherent power to declassify information.

The question which has not yet been tested is whether he has to follow the procedures set out by his predecessors.

It certainly should work as you suggest - but there is not, at this point, any guarantee that it does.

[Dysfunctional]

58. If the codewords on the documents he had are not redacted,

then every government and military document with any of those codewords has to have the codeword redacted and a new codeword stamped in its place or the document has to be destroyed. Take the NSA, if he has one NSA Top Secret document with the cryptographic codeword intact all NSA Top Secret cryptographic documents have to be changed or destroyed. I know this for a fact since it happened when I had an NSA Top Secret cryptographic clearance.

[Ms. Toad]

61. You're addressing what happens AFTER information is declassified

If declassification happens normally, all of what you describe as carrying out the decision to declassify happens as a matter of course.

What I'm addressing is the untested legal question of whether Trump has to follow the rules set out by his predecessors in executive orders, or whether he can make it up as he goes. Because all of the rules for presidential declassification are set out by executive order, he certainly could have issued a new one declaring that, "By executive order I abolish all other rules for presidential declassification and hereby decree that anything classified material which is removed to my living space is declassified." He didn't do that - he just (theoretically) made it a standing order. The legal question is whether he would have had to formalize the policy through an executive order before implementing it.

Unquestionably, Trump's unorthodox purported method of declassificationcertainly makes it impossible for everything that is supposed to happen after classification (redacting the codeword, destruction of duplicate documents, etc.) But that impossibility doesn't change the reality that the president has the inherent power to declassify things - whether he can do so by informally changing the rules or not is not yet settled law.

[LeftInTX]

51. Trump lost a case at the SC over executive privilege and his documents

However, it is not the same as declassification

https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/01/court-rebuffs-trumps-bid-to-block-release-of-documents-related-to-jan-6-riot/

It was based on legislative need

[Ms. Toad]

53. Correct - both as to the loss, and as to it being very different. n/t

[Liberty Belle]

3. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Especially for a president dealing with obviously sensitive materials such as documents about spies and nuclear secrets.

[SharonClark]

4. He doesn't understand ANYTHING about being president.

He just stamps his feet, closes his eyes really hard, clenches his fists, and blurts out another lie.

[GoCubsGo]

22. Yes, in his syphilis-rotted brain, he thinks being President is the same as being King.

He is just coming to realize that everyone sees that Emperor Trump has no clothes, and it's killing him.

[RockRaven]

5. I don't give him the credit of being dumb or ignorant. He didn't CARE what the rules/laws were.

He wanted what he wanted REGARDLESS of the rules/laws. That is different than not understanding.

[JoanofArgh]

6. The thing is, he had plenty of lawyers

who were telling him otherwise , so I don’t buy this. Trump does what Trump wants to do, rules and ethics be damned. He’s lived his whole life like this.

[2naSalit]

26. +1

He’s lived his whole life like this.

And without consequence.

[Walleye]

7. I think he didn't even bother to sign a memo

[fightforfreedom]

11. It was just reported on MSNBC Trump posted a past memo declassifying something.

It must be about something they found at his house of horrors. A memo is not enough, he thinks it is.

[Walleye]

12. So what was he doing keeping the damn memo then! Jesus

[fightforfreedom]

15. Who the hell knows, the fucker is crazy.

[Walleye]

18. Really, indict him and make him defend himself

[rockfordfile]

42. I agree. indict him. No excuses

[gratuitous]

9. He understood enough

Like when the Russians came calling to offer their support in 2016, nobody on the campaign thought to call the FBI, or if they did, it was "Our people don't call the FBI," like any third-rate hoodlum would refuse to do. While you and I might not know all the ins and outs of what needs to be reported, political campaigns have to know it. They just didn't care to follow rules or procedures because that's for other people, not these entitled jerk-offs.

[JustAnotherGen]

10. A judge doesn't accept that

When you fight a speeding ticket.

I know first hand.

[Vinca]

13. Trump doesn't understand the removal of lint from a belly button, but that's not a defense.

It's like a burglar going into court and claiming he didn't know it was wrong to be in a stranger's home in the middle of the night.

[catbyte]

14. He thought he was Putin or Rocket Man; that he could do anything he wanted.

He never understood the quantum difference between being a strong leader and a strongman. A strong leader is strong and makes decisions to help everyone, a strongman is so weak he feels the need to impose his will on everyone. Pathetic.

[Lettuce Be]

16. He didn't understand a single thing. We had a toddler president.

[fightforfreedom]

21. Right, he understands the basics and then he thinks he knows everything.

He fucked up this time.

[milestogo]

17. He's like Michael from "The Office" declaring bankruptcy

[Walleye]

20. Yeah the judge wouldn't let Alex Jones get away with that shit

[KPN]

19. That's what he wants everyone to think. That's his

ultimate defense, sort of like his go to “I was just joking” defense of inflammatory remarks that inflamed.

I don’t buy it. He was the frigging President. Incompetence is not a defense.

[Quakerfriend]

23. Whether he understood, or not, I don't care.

This false narrative that he had made a sweeping statement and so it was is utter nonsense.

[fightforfreedom]

24. It may be Trump is pretending he did not know the process.

Sometimes I forget who I am dealing with. Trump plays stupid as a defense. That no good rotten fucker is well aware of what he is doing. He is devious.

[gab13by13]

30. Yeah I totally agree,

don't fall for Trump's bs, he plays the stupid card all of the time. He knew what he was doing.

[brush]

37. He's stupid all right. Just thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

Dunning-Kruger Effect is always in effect with trump...which is why he's always getting caught at his schemes. This stolen document one being just the latest.

[OAITW r.2.0]

25. I think the WH lawyers could have explained this to Trump.

Using pictures, if necessary. Were WH lawyers ever asked? Seems like there would have written a legal memorandum(s) and issued them to Trump on the legal aspects of the classification law...if Trump asked them. If they actually knew he had taken the classified information and didn't explain, would the lawyers also be guilty?

[tanyev]

27. If they told him something different that what he wanted to hear,

he would have informed them they were completely wrong. Smarter than everybody, donchaknow.

[Cracklin Charlie]

28. We'll need to see the contents, but...

He seemed to understand which documents could make him money. So, I think it’s more likely that he just didn’t care.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[Kota]

29. But top advisors told him about. He chose not to listen to anyone telling him things he didn't like.

That is what is so dangerous about his presidency. He's dumb and doesn't listen to smart people.

[Chainfire]

31. I guess that Trump could claim that he declassified ALL American secrets.

And let the Chinese, Iranians and Russians request FOIA for anything that they want. That claim could be just as valid as the one that he is pushing.

None of this outrage matters until he is charged.

[blogslug]

32. The documents weren't his to possess

It kind of doesn't matter if they were declassified or not. He shouldn't have taken them out of the White House, much less boxed them up to Florida. He stole those documents from the United States Government.

[brush]

35. Yes, and he had help from many people. Who got the docs...

out of the scif? Who boxed them up? Who smuggled and shipped them to Florida? Who stored them in his basement? Who had access to them in Florida?

A lot of people have yet to be exposed.

[brush]

33. There's a lot he didn't understand about presidential...

duties and powers...and he didn't care to understand.

[LymphocyteLover]

34. exactly... he had a toddler's grasp of the duties and responsibilities of the job

and thought he had unlimited power.

World's biggest asshole, still!

[relayerbob]

36. He knew. He didn't care.

[Midnight Writer]

40. The guy sure gets a lot of mileage out of being ignorant.

[Tree Lady]

45. He sure as hell better not get off

Because of that! Ignorance of the law is no excuse!

[RANDYWILDMAN]

46. That man is dolt

and has done nothing to change that fact. His faults put his country in danger and it that is a crime. prosecute him!

[Skittles]

49. the ONLY thing Trump understands is GRIFT

fucking CORRUPT PIECE OF SHIT

[The Third Doctor]

52. He just didn't care

He showed that he didn't care when he told a Russian Minister our secrets. If it does not have anything to do with himself or of it does not make money it doesn't matter.

[dalton99a]

54. .

[BlueLucy]

55. That's what he wants people to think.

He knew but didn't care. He has never followed rules in his life.

[uponit7771]

57. +1,

[Kid Berwyn]

62. +2

Rules don’t apply to King Pisswig.

[Ilsa]

65. The built a diorama for him, but he got mad and stomped it

and threw it against hhe wall. Then he screamed, "These are my papers and love letters from Kim Jung Il. I can take them to Show-and-Tell at my club next week!

[kentuck]

67. I think he understood very well...

He just didn't give a damn.

He had used the de-classification system before. He was aware of what it was.

[Hortensis]

68. Yes, and Reagan was unable to understand he was breaking

laws written specifically to constrain presidential power. Standard criminal defense argument.

You don't have to go to Fox or Facebook to soak in this Kool-Aid. It's running out of the MSM in rivers.

[Cha]

69. Please Stop.. I don't believe anyone is

giving the terminal Liar an EXCUSE on this Site!

[PCIntern]

71. Agreed...

He knew. He just doesn’t give a shit about anything in this whole world except the 3 feet around him at any given instant.

[Cha]

73. Prescisely.. it's sickening to see Excuses

made for him.. As If We haven't had 6 Concentrated Years to witness what DT is capable of.