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sl8

(13,779 posts)
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 06:09 AM Aug 2022

Scanning students' homes during remote testing is unconstitutional, judge says

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/08/privacy-win-for-students-home-scans-during-remote-exams-deemed-unconstitutional/

Scanning students’ homes during remote testing is unconstitutional, judge says

Ohio judge says room scans could form a slippery slope to more illegal searches.

ASHLEY BELANGER - 8/23/2022, 5:16 PM

As the pandemic unfolded in spring 2020, an Educause survey found that an increasing number of students—who had very little choice but to take tests remotely—were increasingly putting up with potential privacy invasions from schools. Two years later, for example, it’s considered a common practice that some schools record students throughout remote tests to prevent cheating, while others conduct room scans when the test begins.

Now—in an apparent privacy win for students everywhere—an Ohio judge has ruled that the latter practice of scanning rooms is not only an invasion of privacy but a violation of the Fourth Amendment’s guaranteed protection against unlawful searches in American homes.

The decision came after a Cleveland State University student, Aaron Ogletree, agreed to a room scan before a chemistry exam, even though his teacher had changed their policy, and he did not expect it to happen before the test. Because there were others in his home, he took the test in his bedroom, where he says he had sensitive tax documents spread out on a surface. These confidential documents, he claimed, could not be moved before the test and were visible in the room scan recording—which was shared with other students.

After the test, Ogletree sued Cleveland State for violating his Fourth Amendment rights, and Ohio judge J. Philip Calabrese decided yesterday that Ogletree was right: Room scans are unconstitutional

[...]

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Scanning students' homes during remote testing is unconstitutional, judge says (Original Post) sl8 Aug 2022 OP
A clarification, please. Hugin Aug 2022 #1
Here's an example FBaggins Aug 2022 #2
Wow. Hugin Aug 2022 #3
Because they can see the student's screen -- it's a shared screen obamanut2012 Aug 2022 #4
They are there to obtain a credential exboyfil Aug 2022 #5
As replied above - but also it isn't possible FBaggins Aug 2022 #7
Tape a foam core board to the back of your screen littleredhen Aug 2022 #8
You'd think studying for the test would be easier. Hugin Aug 2022 #10
Who knows. littleredhen Aug 2022 #11
It does seem like an exercise in fantasy. Hugin Aug 2022 #12
When good now means winning and evil means losing malaise Aug 2022 #21
That's probably the best explanation of the situation. Hugin Aug 2022 #25
Everything on your computer screen gets recorded. Sympthsical Aug 2022 #14
Some places have the tests in the Library's study rooms obamanut2012 Aug 2022 #18
Sure Sympthsical Aug 2022 #20
My spouse taught remotely for two years frazzled Aug 2022 #6
C'mon, the tax documents couldn't be moved? Put a blank piece of paper over them. FSogol Aug 2022 #9
I am sure they did it on purpose to force it to be changed obamanut2012 Aug 2022 #19
If the choice is using my camera to show the space is free of cheating materials or FSogol Aug 2022 #22
Yours wasn't an unreasonable search kcr Aug 2022 #23
Oh, there was some massive shit last semester over this Sympthsical Aug 2022 #13
Thanks for the firsthand report. Hugin Aug 2022 #15
It took time away from the tests as well Sympthsical Aug 2022 #17
Remote learning was a farce to begin with: just let people cheat all they want. MichMan Aug 2022 #16
Proctored tests are such a scam. Gore1FL Aug 2022 #24

Hugin

(33,147 posts)
3. Wow.
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 06:39 AM
Aug 2022

I did notice one glaring omission in this particular scan was an image of the computer screen itself. What’s to keep an open text document or webpage from appearing there?

That said, what happened to trust and privacy? In college level courses most people are there because they want to learn.

obamanut2012

(26,076 posts)
4. Because they can see the student's screen -- it's a shared screen
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 07:29 AM
Aug 2022

Like if you have a Zoom or Teams meeting. Which is fine -- they take the tests in specific programs. But the room scan? No.

FBaggins

(26,737 posts)
7. As replied above - but also it isn't possible
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 08:19 AM
Aug 2022

The camera being used is built into the laptop.

Lastly - many such tests use a custom secure browser that fills the screen and won't let you switch to other software.

littleredhen

(17 posts)
8. Tape a foam core board to the back of your screen
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 09:23 AM
Aug 2022

If you really want to cheat. Put formulas or whatever on that. People that want to cheat can always find a way. That window could have a friend outside it to add formulas or you could have a phone taped under the table. You hope they don’t, but it’s always possible.

Hugin

(33,147 posts)
12. It does seem like an exercise in fantasy.
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 09:43 AM
Aug 2022

People are learning all of the wrong things. However, they are learning, I suppose.

malaise

(269,004 posts)
21. When good now means winning and evil means losing
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 11:01 AM
Aug 2022

Cheaters win - ask the Slobfather.
I heard the author of The Devil’s Advocate discussing how the meanings of good and evil have changed over time. It’s frightening.

Hugin

(33,147 posts)
25. That's probably the best explanation of the situation.
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 03:38 PM
Aug 2022

When someone can cheat their way to the Presidency all bets are off.

Sad state of affairs.

Sympthsical

(9,073 posts)
14. Everything on your computer screen gets recorded.
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 10:00 AM
Aug 2022

Browser windows, etc. It's all part of the system. You're expected to have everything on your computer closed except the testing window.

obamanut2012

(26,076 posts)
18. Some places have the tests in the Library's study rooms
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 10:49 AM
Aug 2022

With dedicated computers that ONLY have the one program on it, and some have hand-level cameras for notes, etc. The rooms have nothing in them but a table, chair, and computer, and you can generally bring nothing in, except for maybe a pencil and paper given to you by a staff member. It's like the SAT/LSAT, etc. -- you have to empty out your pockets, etc.

Sympthsical

(9,073 posts)
20. Sure
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 11:00 AM
Aug 2022

And in-person classes have the usual restrictions. All these protocols came into play when campuses were shut down due to Covid. No one was taking tests on campus.

But there is something very weird, discomfiting, and invasive to, "Show us your house." Some of my classmates had to take their tests in their kitchens or living rooms because that's where the family computer was. So, it's like here's my living space.

I have a home office. It's just a desk and a single bed I bought for my mom when she visits (she can't do stairs). There's nothing to see here. But if my computer was in my bedroom, I would feel very, very, very uncomfortable with it. I'm a gay man. I don't want to panic glance around before a test to see what's left out in there, lol.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
6. My spouse taught remotely for two years
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 07:43 AM
Aug 2022

(Undergraduate and graduate students). His students were not required to have their screens turned on because some might feel ashamed of their living situations, etc. Most did appear on screen, but a few, especially students who were back in their home countries, did not. Plus, because of extreme time zone differences in China or South Korea, some of the students had to view recorded class sessions asynchronously. This was the required policy of his, and many other, educational institutions. He checked in by email or phone with students frequently if things seemed amiss.

This required changing up his normal testing procedures radically. Instead of midterm and final papers (he felt they had little access to research resources beyond the Internet), he gave quizzes that contained questions one could only answer if they had listened to the lectures. Class discussion was noted, and course-end presentations were required. Was it perfect? No, but watcha gonna do. He felt the students stepped up and were highly engaged.

But never was a student required to have their camera on.


FSogol

(45,485 posts)
9. C'mon, the tax documents couldn't be moved? Put a blank piece of paper over them.
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 09:27 AM
Aug 2022

Something about this doesn't pass the smell test.

obamanut2012

(26,076 posts)
19. I am sure they did it on purpose to force it to be changed
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 10:50 AM
Aug 2022

So, good. It is unconstitutional. They can go to on-campus testing rooms instead.

FSogol

(45,485 posts)
22. If the choice is using my camera to show the space is free of cheating materials or
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 11:35 AM
Aug 2022

driving to a testing center, I'll take the remote every time.

My company keeps an office clear of all materials for when we need to take a cert exam. I took two last year and moved the tablet around so the proctor could insure it was clear. This is not an unreasonable search.

Sympthsical

(9,073 posts)
13. Oh, there was some massive shit last semester over this
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 09:57 AM
Aug 2022

I was taking a biology class online, and we had to use Proctor for home exams.

We had to scan the entire room we're in with our webcams prior to starting on the test, and the professor could then review it to see if you had any notes, books, etc. laying around.

Better than that, if she thought the scores were too high, she'd go through and analyze where our eyes were and call the people into question over what they were doing, withholding grades until their explanations satisfied her. I never had a problem because I'm good at school and would be done with hour long tests in under ten minutes. However, some classmates were stay at home, with small children about who needed/wanted attention, etc. Some were in their kitchens and things.

We all have shit going on at home.

Well, on the last test before the final, the professor (who was notably not very present during Zoom classes) got a bug up her ass and called into question a good chunk of my class mates including some lab partners, because their eyes were looking in "strange directions." And it's really tricky, because I know I look down when I'm just staring and thinking about something. One of my lab mates told me she had an aquarium off to the side she'd look at while thinking.

The whole situation was an obnoxious clusterfuck. I took my tests in my home office, but I have work papers everywhere in here. So before any test, I was cleaning up and hiding away half my work set up.

One of my classmate's husbands who is a lawyer kept saying all semester, "There is no way this would stand up to a challenge." People were positively surly the whole time and wanted to refuse it but were told they'd fail if they didn't comply. And since it was a required RN course, people couldn't refuse.

It honestly kind of felt like it was only ever brought into play when some professor decided they wanted to slap their dicks on the table and assert authority over the class.

I'm glad someone's calling it out. It's way too much. Professors shouldn't be poking around my home.

Hugin

(33,147 posts)
15. Thanks for the firsthand report.
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 10:21 AM
Aug 2022

All of that picking up and detailed scanning sure takes away from productive learning time, IMHO.

I'm sorry you experienced that...

My days as a mentor are long over. A tiny little minority of two where I was, believed that the core of all learning is encouraging problem solving while instilling a background in the field. To include knowing where to go or who to talk with to get some pointers to where the answers may live.



Sympthsical

(9,073 posts)
17. It took time away from the tests as well
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 10:39 AM
Aug 2022

The room scan came after you clicked to start the test. So, the exam clock is ticking away while you awkwardly try to maneuver your camera around to the AI's satisfaction.

I think one of my chemistry professors had the right idea with online exams. She designed the tests in such a way that if you knew the material, you'd be ok. You had enough time to go through the problems and equations and get it all done. We were given 10 minutes extra at the end so we could take a picture of our work and upload it.

If you did not know the material or how to do the problem, you weren't going to finish all of the test. There was just no way you were going to be able to flip through all your notes, google, etc. and then still sit there are trying to work through the equations.

I knew what I was doing, but I was still using at least 80% of the time going through it and the rest for double checking everything. And you could see from the spread of scores that they approximated what you could expect in a normal classroom. She designed the problems herself, so there was no googling to find the answers.

Some professors with online courses get lazy, though. I had a summer class that consisted of a billion untimed quizzes. They were open note, so it was very whatever. However, when looking something up, I discovered all the quizzes were on quizlet. All of them. All of the answers. The professor just lifted quizzes from the text publisher, I think.

It wasn't a very well designed class, lol.

Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
24. Proctored tests are such a scam.
Wed Aug 24, 2022, 12:09 PM
Aug 2022

We teach students how to research and then we tell them they have to memorize instead.

If I can utilize Google to make it appear that I have mastered all of the provided coursework, why did I bother to take the class in the first place?

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