The damage from this espionage has already been done

[Thunderbeast]

Military and intelligence organizations must assume that any of the secrets held in the Mara Lago basement are compromised. To assume otherwise would be dangerous.

It does not matter if no proof is found that the secrets were shared or sold. The worst-case scenario must be used to save lives and prepare counter-measures to the impact of the treason.

At best, this will cost billions. At worst, our nation will be at increased peril and our intelligence agents will be killed.

[louis-t]

1. Say it with me..."Donnie is a traitor."

[Joinfortmill]

22. Yes, the worst kind of traitor possible, a leader of the free world. May he rot in hell.

[CentralMass]

2. Will the Orange Menace avoid jail time ?

[2naSalit]

5. If it were up to me...

His only means of escape from prison would be the firing squad.

[MiHale]

32. Amen! Put him in front of his "wall".

[Juneboarder]

37. I'm with ya there, but...

I'd rather see him rot in prison for the rest of his life. The world deserves that!

[2naSalit]

41. That would be the best ending...

Especially if he's in for several years. It will kill him, and I'd rather he pass in absolute anguish.

[RicROC]

68. My concern with that scenario is that a future President might pardon TFG

After conviction and sentencing, Congress should pass a law specifically for this criminal that forbids any chance for parole or pardon.

[2naSalit]

74. Good point.

There has to be finality to the punishment, there can be no way out of it.

[Demsrule86]

3. There is no way to know that. Let's wait and see what happened.

[Thunderbeast]

11. THAT is the point!

We can not know with certainty....Therefore we have to assume that in 18 months that the information was beyond the control of the archives, someone else has seen it.

Mara Lago maids and groundskeepers are no match for foreign agents. Too many people knew the documents were there. It would be easy pickings for professionals.

"Wait and see" is just not a safe plan. The information appears to be too dangerous to make an assumption that it has not been compromised.

[BamaRefugee]

44. IIRC he only hires Eastern Europeans to work at Mar a Lardo, easy to infiltrate the staff????

[gratuitous]

13. No, there is no way to know that

And for us ordinary citizens, it probably (and I say probably) won't make any difference. But for any government agencies not to presume that their security has been compromised would be reckless. Not just surveillence and espionage, but diplomatic corps, NGO liaisons, any other foreign service contacts, and international trade officials should all assume that this information is now in the hands of our good friends in Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, pirate ships off the east coast of Africa, and Mrs. Peterson's fourth grade class at Mortimer Elementary.

[Joinfortmill]

20. Yup.

[calimary]

23. Yep. We HAVE TO assume the worst.

EVERYBODY has to STOP giving him the benefit of the doubt!!!

[RKP5637]

49. Exactly!!! Well said!!! None can assume any goodness on his part given his track record! n/t

[plimsoll]

21. We have a responsibility to protect any foreign intelligence assets we have.

Waiting and seeing is essentially saying, "you're on your own." If we don't try to protect those intelligence assets we'll never be able to recruit new ones. That's been the risk with TFG since he won the election in 2016. He seems to be compromised, other peoples lives are endangered by his actions, and even previous Presidents who I loathed wouldn't compromise national security for their own ends. With the TFG, if it doesn't hurt him personally and directly you know there isn't any restraint.

[Scrivener7]

61. "You're on your own" OR "Well, chum, we'll know your identity was compromised when you

fall out a 5th floor window. Till then, we just don't have enough information. So we're just going to wait and see."

[RKP5637]

4. It would be so easy for him/them to have already scanned it all into digital format. n/t

[CrispyQ]

9. Who knows how many people took images with their phones?

Unlikely but certainly possible.

I'm still stunned how slow the response has been to such a breach of security. The Archives, the DOJ, I just don't get it.

[Joinfortmill]

19. They're in uncharted territory

[RKP5637]

47. If most of us had done anything he has done we would be sitting in jail now. The guy

gets away with just about everything/anything. I just don't get it.

[Scrivener7]

62. I think the unlikely scenario is if that DIDN'T happen. Or if he HASN'T already shilled some of our

most sensitive national secrets for a quid pro quo.

[Lonestarblue]

36. I am assuming that Trump had someone make digital copies of all classified documents.

Much easier to transfer to a buyer. And perhaps the reason to move the boxes in and out of the storage room was to get them out of security camera views so documents could be scanned.

I’m hoping the CIA has ways of tracking whether the information in the top secret documents is being used by a foreign government and that it could have come from no other source.

[RKP5637]

48. Yeah, I hope they can track them. He certainly did not have them there for making a scrapbook

of his memories. I think similar to you, they well might have been already scanned and who knows where they might be now.

[patphil]

6. We'll never know the extent of Trump's treachery.

How many documents has he already passed to foreign nations? How many has he destroyed? And does he have any other documents in his possession? This isn't just about the documents he stole, he was president for 4 years, and had countless opportunities to profit at the expense of the nation by selling our secrets.

A man who cares not for the rule of law...actually seeing himself above the law, and has no concern for our nation can't be trusted with sensitive materials of any kind.
It doesn't matter that he is a former president, or that he "claimed" to have de-classified those documents, which he didn't by any legal or proper process, the information in them is still of extreme value to our enemies. It's content is independent of the classification they are assigned.
And, regardless of all that, he is still in possession of stolen property...documents he deliberately took.
His claim of ownership is pure bullshit. They are the property of the Federal Government, and belong in the National Archive.

Trump is a thief, pure and simple.

[Talitha]

7. "And does he have any other documents in his possession?"

Check Ivana's grave.

Seriously, check Ivana's grave.

[geardaddy]

28. Yes, this is my thinking too.

[Scrivener7]

63. The FBI is interviewing people close to him about that now. They think he does.

This will be their 4th pass at Log O' Merde. And he has a dozen other properties.

[Talitha]

75. Thanks for that info, hopefully they'll do a sweep of them all.

Fingers crossed.

[Scrivener7]

76. I know, right? And soon!

And in normal times I would say, "Check Ivana's grave" was over the top." These days? They really should check Ivana's grave.

[Joinfortmill]

18. And an enemy of the United States.

[not fooled]

35. Yep

I think he made money off intelligence and government information starting as soon as he got into office.

[BonnieJW]

45. Passed?

Sold.
He sold copies to the highest bidders. I'll bet he sold copies of the same document to many different bidders. Then when he gave them back, they were all still there.

[patphil]

46. Passed or sold makes no difference. It's the same old treason.

[BComplex]

8. And the danger is coming right now from Saudi Arabia. That golf tournament wasn't

just fun and games. Trump has ushered in our enemies to all levels of our government. They've bought the aquifer in Arizona. They own a shitload of the refineries in Texas. They're buying our real estate at alarming rates.

There needs to be a SERIOUS re-writing of the laws in our country that other countries can't buy our infrastructure and real estate. It's too fucking dangerous.

Back in the 1950's and early 60's, foreigners weren't allowed to own our infrastructure. Republicans will sell their own mother for money.

[CrispyQ]

15. Most people aren't aware just how much of the US has been sold off to foreign interests.

The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.

Not sure who they attribute that quote to, Marx or Lenin, but it's so true.

[Saboburns]

10. We shall see

Much remains to seen.

I am near certain the DOJ/FBI were aware, watching and waiting, and know EVERYTHING.

I offer no proof of this, there is no proof of this.

Yet.

The biggest part of this saga is yet to be revealed. We're still reading the forward, almost ready to begin chapter one.

The crux here isn't that he stole and possessed SCI/SAP documents. It's why he stole them, and what he did, or tried to do with them.

I cannot prove anything yet, though I do want to point out, that this is a at the very least a possibility.

[Joinfortmill]

17. Totally agree.

[SWBTATTReg]

43. I agree w/ you on your 'gut feelings'. Sure we can't prove anything, but what prompted the ...

authorities to start in on tRUMP in Jan. '22 for these documents back? Word of mouth from witnesses, those in the know. We also know that the secret service had a protection detail there at MAL, surely some of these people saw, suspected what was going on, hidden in the basement, after all, it's their duty to protect the ex-president (that's why I don't really take it seriously when others say that foreign agents sneaked into MAL and scooped up secrets by the boatload, too many watchful eyes around).

I also suspect that tRUMP already has tried selling these secrets too, mainly because of his seemingly always unsatisfied craving for money, 365x24. Also there is that constant craving for attention, to be the center of attention hence the secret documents and the praise he was trying to seek, perhaps from his Russian handlers? It seems rather funny that we haven't heard a peep out of them (the Russians) but instead the Saudi (in a way, they do have the money of course, being that the Russians don't have money in excess). Perhaps this is a secret reason why Biden went there to Saudi Arabia, did a fist bump w/ the ruler/prince, that is, the Saudi passed along intelligence to the US that tRUMP was trying to pass along secrets?

In short, you're right I think, Saboburns. They knew. Perhaps that's why the DOJ and others delayed raiding MAL so as to let tRUMP incriminate himself (as well as others)? In any event, djt never deserves to be around any elected office, period. This episode proves this amply. Djt deserves at least, substantial house arrest at a minimum. Biden already has refused to let tRUMP get classified briefings at the beginning of his term, perhaps something was aloof already by then?

[Scrivener7]

64. I so hope you are right that it was a sting. But it seems very, very unlikely to me.

Not least because they don't seem to have a clue where lots of the documents are. STILL.

[LuckyCharms]

12. Agree 100%. K and R. n/t

[Irish_Dem]

14. I'm now wondering if some of the Russian oligarchs

Last edited Thu Aug 25, 2022, 06:19 AM - Edit history (1)

who have been killed by Putin were working for the US. Trump could have compromised them.

[mopinko]

54. hmmmmm

[Irish_Dem]

58. Yep. Anyone Putin kills we have to wonder now if it is connected to Trump.

[Joinfortmill]

16. Very likely espionage throughout his entire term. He's an enemy of the United States.

[RKP5637]

50. Absolutely!!!!! n/t

[frogmarch]

24. And yet,

trump is still walking free.

[RKP5637]

51. And much of the GOP wants him in 2024. It's mind bending. n/t

[Traildogbob]

25. I think it is time

To start preparing charges of “Accomplices” to those lawyers, Fox yapping heads and ALL elected GQP’s that are covering up his crimes with unlimited bullshit. They are all pro treason anti American, actual Enemies of the state. And a Hell of a lot of obstruction to an espionage investigation. His “Lawyers” need some lawing crashing down on their lying asses. Accomplices to Espionage has gotta be bad resume heading for a lawyer. Should be bad for even Port A John cleaner applications.

[Solomon]

26. The other damage not talked about is what country will share secrets with us now, knowing their

assets can be so easily compromised?

[Saboburns]

29. A key point you're missing. Most everyone else is also.

NARA is an archive.

They do not provide security for the millions of secret documents in our government. That the NARA was not aware docs were missing isn't even a little bit important.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THOSE TASKED WITH THE SECURITY OF SECRET DOCUMENTS WERE AWARE THEY WERE MISSING AND POSSIBLY WHO TOOK THEM!

Things like that aren't printed in newspapers. OR ANYWHERE ELSE!

When you finally figure this point out, well then...

Go ahead, give it some thought...

And you might want to slow your roll and stop bitching about how the FBI are clueless stumble bums who didn't even know this stuff was missing for 18 months.

This much I am certain about, the DOJ/FBI know more about this than you or I. The DOJ/FBI know more about this than they have yet revealed.

[gab13by13]

42. Whatever,

when I take out a library book, they know when it is overdue and fine me. Maybe we need librarians to work at the National Archives?

[murielm99]

78. Archivists ARE librarians!

[Scrivener7]

65. Why do you keep posting this same unnecessarily cagey post? We get it. You think it was a sting.

And no, no one else is missing the point you keep telling us we are missing. We just think your scenario is very, very unlikely.

[Saboburns]

66. How come you lecture me so much?

This is, at least, the 15th lecture you've given me this week.

None of the other 14 lectures have made the least impact. Surely you see that.

So, what makes you think that this one will?

Behavior not unlike a compulsion. Perhaps it would be better to just ignore me. However, that's merely a suggestion. And I certainly want you to do what you think is best going forward.

No matter how many lectures that may entail.

[Scrivener7]

70. LOL! We've interacted in THREE threads. You appear to believe that "disagreement" equals "lecture"

which might be an interesting issue for you to explore on your own.

Lecturing would be, for example, telling everyone repeatedly that they're missing a possibility that no one is missing. For example that this is an elaborate sting.

So two things: 1) no one is missing that point 2) this is a discussion board in which people discuss and often disagree. Disagreement does not equal "lecture."

[Saboburns]

72. That's lecture #16

And the 4th in this thread alone.

[Scrivener7]

73. LOL! You're hilarious! Or is saying that a lecture too?

[Saboburns]

77. Not a lecture!

That's actually very kind words.

Which has been rare so far, but hopefully the start of something big!

[tblue37]

30. Precisely. nt

[housecat]

31. Maybe he'll save us an obscenely expensive circus if he just drops dead

When he's convicted, his brainless followers will be very violent, but we might be ready

[MiHale]

38. I don't think there will be violence...

If he’s convicted would be after the trial which could take years. They will move on to their next “golden idol” trump will be tossed aside.

[RKP5637]

52. They would likely accept DeSantis as leader of the cult! n/t

[Texin]

33. Thunderbeast, I believe tRump was leaking info to Putin, Lavrov, et al, before

the *election* in 2016, and of course, throughout his regime.

[lindysalsagal]

34. This really makes Jan 6 look like a fight at the 7th grade dance.

This is far worse treachery.

[housecat]

53. LOL true, but J6 could have been different if they had brains

[TeamProg]

39. K&R Thanks for posting. n/t

[Bondor]

40. Chinese spy?

I recall something a few months ago about finding a Chinese spy at Mar-A-Lago? Did not think much of it at the time, but now it seems pretty important.

[Strelnikov_]

67. Kinda places that episode in a whole new light

It did happen in '19. But the Chinese probably had indications that the Orange One was playing loose with national intelligence information, and some could be floating around Mar-A-Lardo.

[Mr.Bill]

55. I really hope someone was smart enough to put fake documents in

Trump's hands knowing what he was going to do with it. At this point, maybe we should announce that. Great movie plot.

[Saboburns]

56. Been pondering this myself. It just makes sense.

It would be a puzzle piece that fits perfectly and plug a few sinister holes..

[Strelnikov_]

69. "The water evaporator is broken on Midway Island"

Would not surprise me if they have, and have proof that he is trading secrets.

Thing is, how do you bring him down? The GOP will just circle the wagons, claim it is planted.

You would need an ironclad, slam dunk case. Maybe this is the opening act of said case.

[Hotler]

57. And he's still walking free. ... nt

[Hortensis]

59. But what damage is done is not something we can know.

We DON'T know.

It's not that there wouldn't some truth to the post, but the OP is far too absolute. Fwiw, I suspect some damage control actions were taken well before tRump left the presidency, back when our intelligence services first knew sensitive documents had been taken and tRump had refused to return them. But of course I don't know.

[Scrivener7]

60. You are absolutely right. If our security services DON'T assume those secrets are compromised,

then they are idiots.

Though the presence of the docs there in the first place suggests they already are total fuck-ups.

ALSO, no sane nation will ever share sensitive information with us again. And that is very dangerous for us.

[Strelnikov_]

71. " presence of the docs there in the first place suggests they already are total fuck-ups"

Reading how a SCI document is supposed to be handled, yea.

A lot of heads should roll over this one.

Which means there should be a lot of heads rolling over on who did what.

I thing the Orange One is in trouble.