Probably an unpopular opinion concerning criticism of the FBI.

[LuckyCharms]

I'm certainly no expert on stuff like this.

I have an in-law who works for NCIS. I also am friends with someone who works for the FBI. I have also worked with classified information in my past life, for several years. Even though my work with this information was a long time ago, I'm all too familiar with the classification and de-classification processes that existed at the time. As a result, I'm familiar with how these documents are handled on a daily basis. I'm familiar with how they are controlled and accounted for, and how they are destroyed if necessary. Finally, I understand the penalties for non-compliance of security procedures as they relate to classified information.

I'm familiar with the security clearance process, and the "need to know". I'm also familiar with reporting requirements of individuals who have ongoing secret and top secret clearances. As one example, if a cleared individual begins to experience financial difficulties, that fact is to be reported immediately to their superior. The reasoning behind this is as follows: It is assumed that financial difficulties may enable a person to be more easily bribed. There are several other situations that are required to be immediately reported while cleared.

Discussions with my friend and family member have given me a rudimentary, very non-detailed understanding of how these law enforcement agencies operate. This has given me an intuitive feel for what goes on in these organizations. I don't know anything more about this than what the general public would know if they did even some cursory research, however, I kind of have a "flavor" of how they generally operate.

All of this being said, I would like to address the current widespread criticism that I read about the FBI (ie: Why did they wait so long to seize the documents, why did they ask first, etc).

It all boils down to the following:

1) Law enforcement at this level is far from "stupid". We are fortunate that law enforcement at this level employs some of the smartest people in the country.

2) There is a specific reason for everything that these organizations do at this level. If they "waited to seize the documents", they had a reason for doing so.

3) If they "nicely requested" that tfg return the documents, or if they waited what is widely said to be "too long" before they did the search, then there were reasons for acting in the manner they did.

4) Law enforcement at this level probably already knows which countries or individuals have illegal access to this information.

5) I GENERALLY do not believe the FBI has been infiltrated/compromised by/with tfg supporters. I would speculate that their duties on the job almost always supersede their political beliefs. And yes, I know there are exceptions.

6) I do not personally specifically equate the Secret Service to the above mentioned organizations in general. They seem to be almost a rogue sub-set organization to me at this point.

I am expressing my opinions of the individuals charged with INVESTIGATING what happened with these documents. However, I will agree that there are some compromised individuals within the employ of the government that allowed this to happen in the first place. Individuals with top secret clearances who either "facilitated" or "allowed" a breakdown of the processes in-place that are intended to protect this information.

As far as "the FBI begged tfg to return the documents" or "they waited too long"...I will just say that us here sitting behind our computers or typing on our phones have no idea about this. Events occurring in these situations are almost never as they appear, and there is usually a reason for every action taken or not taken during an investigation.

[Elessar Zappa]

1. I agree with you 100%.

I think the FBI is doing their job well and knows exactly the score and what’s going on.

[Irish_Dem]

2. We can't assume government agencies are doing the right thing.

We have ample evidence that agencies have been compromised.

High level officials have been corrupted.

[LuckyCharms]

4. I agree that some high level officials have been corrupted.

I further agree that this corruption enabled the removal of the classified documents.

[Tetrachloride]

3. ty for informative post

however , due to complexity and scope, so many unanswered questions. therefore, as for myself, speculation will continue

[LuckyCharms]

5. Well, I'm speculating myself.

I'm just expressing an opinion based on my experiences.

[Ocelot II]

6. I think you're right, and we don't know what we don't know.

Some people have argued that they should have moved faster - notably Frank Figliucci on MSNBC, a guy who's pretty knowledgeable - but there might have been things going on that even he didn't know about. And I have another theory, for what it's worth (and maybe that isn't much), which is based on the fact that the federal agencies, including the FBI and DoJ, are full of institutionalists (not including any TFG holdovers in management, who I hope are gone by now). These are career people who've probably worked for multiple administrations and who have just kept doing their jobs while ignoring the politics. I am guessing that many rank and file employees proceeded as if TFG were a normal president, or at least normal enough that he wouldn't steal government secrets and take them home with them. They could imagine him taking stuff he shouldn't have, like routine letters from foreign leaders, knickknacks and souvenirs (I'm surprised he didn't take the silver), but it's hard to get your head around the possibility any president, even that guy, making off with TS-SCI stuff. That's a movie plot, not real life, and it might have caused some to hesitate and take extra steps to find out whether it was for real.

In the meantime, though, the IC certainly would have been trying to find out whether the missing information was popping up in other places where it shouldn't have been. It's possible that very secret investigations involving the NSA and even the CIA have been going on to determine whether the purloined documents or information contained in them had made its way to foreign intelligence services. And they aren't going to tell us about that.

Maybe this is bullshit, but what's certain is that we don't know what we don't know.

[LuckyCharms]

8. Ah, thank you! That's the word I was looking for but it evaded me...

"Institutionalists".

And you made some great points.

[Beastly Boy]

7. Methinks that yours is a pretty popular opinion.

But one that is not being propagated as vigorously as the others.

[LAS14]

9. Why would you think this would be unpopular? Can you give me...

... some links to DU posts which express a different view?

tia
las

[emulatorloo]

10. I've seen them. But it is not right to call out other DU'ers.

Look around a little, you’ll find threads about ‘why did the FBI wait so long’ etc.

Additionally the OP is a a credible poster, not sure why you would think they are lying.

[gab13by13]

11. When I post that they waited too long,

I get my information, opinion, from former prosecutors. Frank Figliusi was former FBI, guess what he says?

[Effete Snob]

13. People on TV say what the audience wants to hear

So that they will be invited back.

[emulatorloo]

14. Yes I saw the Frank Figliusi stuff. I just didn't like the idea that someone was demanding OP

name names.

[Iwasthere]

12. Wise words

However, why is tRump being handled with such kid gloves? He must be held accountable Now! Not after future elections, or anything else. Our country's security is at stake. We can't withstand another Mueller fiasco. I can visualize him right now, with a shit eating smirk on his face, even now! He believes he'll get away with it all.

[calimary]

18. That's what gets me, too.

[crickets]

15. K&R for the post and the discussion.

[ancianita]

16. Could you please explain your understanding of the difference between a 'bureau' and an 'agency'?

A couple of people I've talked to lately say the FBI is "just a bureau," which to them means it's not even "legal." I haven't pursued them about what they mean, since I'm unclear about what authority difference might come with "agencies" and "bureaus."

If you can't or don't want to answer, I'll just research it. It just occurred to me to ask you, since you have experience in government.

TIA

[LuckyCharms]

21. Sorry, I have no idea without research either. I worked for a government

contractor, not directly for the government.

[ancianita]

24. Cool. Thanks.

[KS Toronado]

17. Agree with you 100%.

[krkaufman]

19. As a counter to the "everything for good reason" view ...

As a counter to the “everything for good reason” view, one needn’t look further than James Comey to see that basic human flaws can disrupt even the most rigorous and supposedly entrenched practices.

[UTUSN]

20. Wingnut know-nothing criticisms on all topics are ignorant. They are undermining

confidence in all institutions, de facto leading to dismantling the government, and making us ungovernable.

Compounded by every yakking head on cable and social.

[jaxexpat]

22. TFG demolished so many "norms" their currency is questioned. With good reason, I'd say.

We shall see. There is, however, one certainty about all this. If TFG skates (no indictment, no jail time, etc.) the justice system failed.

Five-Thirty-Eight polling has the GOP becoming the new majority in the House by a 22% Dem. vs 78% Rep. chance of victory. If, in November, Trump and the Republicans are reeling from the hammer of justice on their deserving little heads that probably won't happen. If they do take the House, that's on the DOJ's horsing around, not-indicting people, while Rome burns. It's 69 days until November 1.

[infullview]

23. So we can spin a nice story

That the FBI gave him rope so they could 1) post surveillance and wait for him to try to sell documents. 2) wait for other countries security organizations to confirm they were sold 3) finger print all the documents for other people who may be involved.

None of this is too far fetched.

[elias7]

25. Informed opinions read, well, like the person is informed

Thank you for your 2 cents. That was probably worth a nickel, to be fair