Won't student debt forgiveness discourage parents from paying for their kids' college education?

[Alhena]

A lot of parents have traditionally had college funds for their kids. But if the expectation sets in that student loan debt isn't "real" debt and that it's fine to incur a bunch of it and wait for some president to come along and forgive it, it suddenly becomes kind of a dumb financial move to pay for your kids' education.

Or am I missing something?

[ColinC]

1. People who can afford to pay for college don't take out loans

This includes parents who pay for their kids' college. The issue isn't just about the loans but the interest Most people spend their entire lives paying off interest despite having likely paying off the original loan amount several times over. Truth is, at the very least, all interest should be forgiven if the loans are not. Anybody who never took out loans don't have to worry about the interest.

Loans are generally taken out by lower income individuals whose parents couldn't afford to pay for their college. If they or their parents could have afforded to pay upfront, they likely would have.

[Zeitghost]

7. But if you assume they will eventually be forgiven

Why not take them even if you don't need them?

This is going to incentivize people who don't need to take on debt to do it anyway, hoping it will end up forgiven.

[ColinC]

9. You cannot take out student debt you don't need.

Your need is calculated before loans are distributed based on income. If you are given loans, it means you need them.

[Zeitghost]

11. Not exactly

There are plenty of people who qualify but never take them because they can get by without them.

[ColinC]

14. Just because you can get by without them doesn't mean you don't need the money

It just means you find the money elsewhere and might scrape by. Anybody who takes out the loans, needs the money. Many people work full time and go to school full time despite the harm it could do to them and their psyche. This is why completely revamping the system and forgiving loans is so important.

[Zeitghost]

20. If you can get buy without them

By definition you do not "need" them.

Forgiving loans will incentivize those who would have otherwise not taken them to do so, hoping they will get forgiven in round two of loan forgiveness.

[ColinC]

22. Nope. That's not what that means

If you live in your car (which many students are doing now instead of taking loans), then you clearly need them. If you are unable to make a decent quality of life without taking loans, you need the loans. The calculation for this by the government is pretty accurate.

Suggesting people should sacrifice a decent quality of life and that not doing so is irresponsible or effectively stealing, is just ridiculous.

[inthewind21]

28. This won't get me any gold stars but...

"We were forced to take out student loans" No, no you weren't. You chose to take them out. There's no requirement that all must go to over priced colleges. As for your offense taken at the "suggestion" people should sacrifice a decent quality of life so they can go to school full time and not have to be bothered with a job and therefore had no other choice to but to go into debt, which by the way, you were made aware of what you owed and how much the loan would cost in total when you took out that loan, is, well offensive? So do tell, how do you feel about the family where the parents work more than one job, have to carry constant CC debt so they can feed the kids, keep a roof over heads and take care of any unexpected expenses, ie medical or mechanical? You think they should have their mortgage loans forgiven? How abt CC debt? Because the arguments made about student loans is no different? After all, it's just ridiculous to expect them to sacrifice a decent quality of life. Right?

[ColinC]

33. People deserve decent qualities of life

Arguing that they should sacrifice that quality of life when pursuing a major life goal -or even that they should suffer along the way, is pretty terrible. If you cannot live a decent quality of life without taking out loans, then yes: you need the loans.

[Zeitghost]

37. I'm familiar with the process

My mother was a FA manager at a college...

There are plenty of people who need and use loan money. My point is that there are also plenty of people who qualify that do not take them and those people will now be insetivilsed to take on debt they would not have taken otherwise.

Loan forgiveness needs to be coupled with aggressive loan and tuition reform or it will end badly.

[ColinC]

45. Again: what supports your claim that those who qualify and don't take the loans

...indeed don't need the money? Just because somebody can technically survive without it doesn't mean they wouldn't have been far better off with it. Incentivizing somebody to live a decent quality of life to help excel in that chapter of their life is far better than encouraging them to make extensive sacrifices which can negatively impact every aspect of their lives. Your last sentence, if executed properly, would properly address this reality.

[Zeitghost]

50. You must have a different definition of the word need than I do

Providing a higher quality of life is, in most cases, not a need. Many college students would prefer to live more frugally and not graduate with debt, I don't think those students "need" loans. That's not to say that some don't need them, it's just not everyone who might qualify.


I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make. It's a fairly simple fact that there are a group of students who qualify for federally backed student loans but who choose not to take them and go on to graduate college. That group is the only one my comments pertain to. If you do not believe this group exists, then I can understand why you don't agree with my comments; but, I'm really not interested with proving to you that they do exist.

[brush]

32. You're missing the whole point. It there's some relief...

and not there is not total forgiveness which you seem to be ignoring, if there is some relief and those in debt can get out from under some of the debt, they will be able to help their own kids get college educations and their kids will do the same and on and we'll have an educated population able to compete with nations that have FREE college education for their students.

And one more thing, educated voters usually vote Democratic as they are not susceptible to anti-education, anti-women, anti-just about everything, republican talking points.

[H2O Man]

26. In theory, there

may indeed be some who qualify, but do not take out loans. But that in no way is responsive to the post you are addressing, which simply states those who do not qualify cannot get a college loan.

[Zeitghost]

39. I've never challenged that point

My point was that view was incomplete, not wrong.

[H2O Man]

44. "Not exactly."

The person's point was complete. The discussion was about people who apply for loans, not those who do not. Those not going to college -- themselves or a child -- also don't apply for college loans. Thus, they need not be mentioned, either.

[Zeitghost]

52. It was a response to my post

I made a claim that this policy would incentivize students to take loans they would not have otherwise taken.

The response was that those who do not need them do not qualify for them. Which while true, does not address the fact that many who do qualify, do not need or take them. That group is the one I was referring to; they will be incentivized to take loans that would not have otherwise taken.

[H2O Man]

54. Okay.

I think public colleges and universities should be free, same as K through 12. Keep private ones the way they are for those who are more equally than others.

[Ms. Toad]

55. Not necessarily.

Because my marriage was not recognized, it appeared to those making loan decisions as though I had assets but no income when I went to law school. I could have taken the tuition for law school directly out of savings intended for my retirement (I have never had access to a 401(k) program - so aside from maxing out my IRA each year, most of my retirement money is invested in non-tax-sheltered accounts - so no tax implications for pulling it out).

I applied for financial aid, and took out all of the interest-free-while-in-school loans that were offered to me. IIRC, it amounted to about $8,000/year. I had some scholarships in my first year and by the end had scholarships to cover my full tuition - and I still took the loans offered.

When I graduated, we refinanced our home and rolled the law school debt into the remaining principle on our home in a 15 year mortgage. The money we earned by not taking the tuition out of savings more than covered the interest we paid when we rolled it into the mortgage (especially including the 1-3 years of interest-free use we had of the money). We paid it off a couple of years early, and now the house is free and clear.

My parents didn't raise a fool. If you are offered free money (401(k) match, interest-free loans, etc.) take it.

So it is not necessarily true that if you are given loans, you need them.

[CentralMass]

2. Do you have college loans or do you have children who have them ?

[MissB]

3. you are missing something huge

An 18 year old kid can only borrow so much for college. They can borrow something like $5500 their freshman year, increasing a bit until they borrow a TOTAL of $31,000-ish from federal student loans. That is it. $31k over four years. Other than that, parents can borrow Parents Plus loans or they can sign for private loans.

Cost of attendance varies depending on the university, but as an example, my local state U is about $26-28k PER YEAR.

Forgiving $10k doesn't make a dent in how much parents pay for their kids to go to college.

[CentralMass]

5. Exactly. Not a dent. However I applaud Biden for it.

[MissB]

8. same!

I have long since paid off my loans and my kids both got academic full rides. I think I paid $100 for my oldest's first term because of his meal plan choice and the fact that the stipend was sucked away. After that, I didn't have to pay.

This is huge for many families/people. I'm just thrilled. Of course I wish it were more.

[brush]

35. Not a dent? I disagree. It's a10k dent. IMO it should be more...

but it's ten thousand dollars. I don't sneeze at ten thousand dollars.

[GPV]

38. We needed surgery. We got a bandaid.

[brush]

41. It's a start. Look how hard it was to get that.

Give Biden credit for finally moving the public toward accepting student loan forgiveness. Now we can move further.

[world wide wally]

4. When I went to college, it cost about $100per semester hour.

Now it is over $1000 but we keep repeating how important their education is.
Now, think about begrudging these ripoff student loans again.

[Brainfodder]

6. Most of these 10G dissolves were to students with loans from predatory BS colleges?

I am 25 years+ out from last college so ofc I get NOTHING, again!

[Iggo]

10. Yep. Maybe. Some. Don't care.

I busted my ass to pay off my student loans. But if the next generations don’t have to dig out of the same hole I did, I’m fine with that.

I’m not one of those people who thinks that everybody else has to suffer just because I did.

[Scrivener7]

12. $10K? No.

I got a kick ass undergrad education for $40K. I was able to pay for it with summer jobs, student jobs and $20K in college loans. That same education today would be $300K.

I got a scholarship for my Ivy League graduate school, but that would have cost $80K. Today that degree costs around $260K.

$10K is lovely. But no, it won't make parents stop saving for college.

[Alhena]

16. The expectation will grow for future forgivenesses- it will be a regular campaign promise

"Vote for me, and I'll chop an additional 20k off your student loans."

[Scrivener7]

17. Horrors! On the other hand, the world could end in a ball of flame next Tuesday.

So there's that.

[likesmountains 52]

53. And, we believe ALL campaign promises?

Seriously, I really doubt that anyone will stop saving, or take out a loan just in case someone 20 years down the road manages to dismiss the balance. You are just wrong in your assumptions.

[Voltaire2]

13. Education should be free.

All of it. For everyone.

[MLAA]

15. Agree. Healthcare and college should be provided.

[brush]

43. Yes. The nations with the best quality of life offer free college...

to those who want it. Free healthcare too. We're talking many nations who are more competitive against our products on world markets because they have better educated populations.

We don't have to have a huge segment of our population being dumb ass magat, naze Q-anons lapping up every repub talking point put out by the rich, repub elite who all have college degrees and/more.

[roamer65]

18. A lot of parents don't pay for it already.

As to whether it will influence those who do, who knows?

[forthemiddle]

19. My husband and I deferred some retirement savings

To help out our son. We promised that we would pay 1/2 if he kept up his grades.
During that time (the Great Recession) we also took out a Parents Plus loan because my husband’s company was having layoffs. He was at one point working 4 days on, one week off.
As soon as we could we paid off those loans (which was a struggle) and we are finally (8 years later) making up some of our retirement savings.
That means that we have had to realistically defer our own retirement by a few years, so I guess you could say I’m a little bitter.
Oh, and by the way, my husband works for a Foundry, not some cushy office job.
I have heard from so many of those families today that they feel this administration left the manual workers behind today.
I think an interest reduction or refi solution would have went over much better in that demographic.
And yes my son, and his wife (that now make more than us) will benefit. Maybe they will share their windfall?

[FoxNewsSucks]

27. I can't help but feel the same way.

I don't like feeling resentful, but the fact is I paid my loans, paid my mortgage and bills. I didn't have family to help with anything and don't have kids to maybe help in the future. So my retirement, if it even happens, will be less secure because I made all those payments instead of being able to save it for my future.

Good for the people who truly needed this now, but it does get old paying taxes and having every break pass one by.

[Maeve]

21. I went to college when it was still affordable (yeah, I'm that old!)

I could work full-time in summer and pay for a full year of school. My kids couldn't work full time all year and get ahead of tuition and books. I believe one of the four still owes something (which may be forgiven) and all have borrowed money from us that we forgave at least in part. We couldn't begin to pay for college now.

But I don't begrudge any of the forgiveness offered now. Still, anyone who is fool enough to bet on future forgiveness will get a lesson they don't teach in class.

[obamanut2012]

23. I cannot believe sone of the posts here about this

It happens every time this has been mnetionef for ten years.

Education should be free or heavily subsidized. Other first-world countries do it, California used to until Ronalf fucking Reagan.

My college fund didn't even pay for my room and board for a semester, and my parents put every cent in it they could. Acholarships helped, but I paid almost 90k on 15k loans, and that was the 90s.

[USALiberal]

24. Yes!

[AntivaxHunters]

25. This fits

I can't believe some of the posts on this. Unbelievable.

[FoxNewsSucks]

29. I've seen that a lot

possibly drawn by someone who listens to Thom Hartmann. Hartmann was the first one I heard use that on a caller. It disappointed me, because the timing of researchers finding a cure to a disease isn't really the same thing as forgiving loans. In part, because it doesn't actually solve the real problem - outrageous tuition and costs, along with predatory lenders and ripoff universities.

[AntivaxHunters]

34. You mean like....

[Bettie]

40. Weird, isn't it?

How no one says a single word about these "struggling small business people" in the graphic, who were given gifts of millions to help them during the pandemic...as loans, but they knew they'd never be asked to pay them back. They never are, rich people get free money all the damned time, but oh, the horror if people of lesser means get help.

[brush]

47. Big mouth Marjorie Taylor Greene too...forgiven.

And we know she'll be in front of any mic she can find criticize this.

[Wednesdays]

42. Selfishness isn't just a GOP trait, eh?

[Celerity]

30. de rec Do you understand that a US 4 year PUBLIC degree's average total cost is over $100K now?

[honest.abe]

36. Not us.

We are parents of a 5 year old and we are already putting money into 529 college saving plan. There is no way we can count on future administrations being as generous as Biden. Furthermore the cost of a typical 4 year degree is about $100,000.

[albacore]

46. I always read thru the comments on threads like this. This time... tired of discussing the obvious.

Why should parents pay for the kid's higher ed?
An educated workforce/citizenry is a national asset. WE should pay for that education.
Other countries do it? Are we that fucking different?

[brush]

48. Agreed. It's a no-brainer, pure and simple.

[marybourg]

49. Yes, you're missing a lot of things. One is that

if parents and students don’t pay for college when they can afford to, and instead take out loans, the interest on those loans will accrue and the borrower(s) will owe far more several years down the road then they owed initially.

They can then decide to either pay off the inflated loans, or let them ride, paying only what is required. This will affect their ability to borrow for a home, possibly a car. But they’re allowed to make this decision for themselves. If they want to wait for a future President to possibly discharge their loan - if they now fit under the income requirements, which is doubtful if they initially could have paid themselves, but chose not to - that’s their decision to make. It doesn’t hurt me and it doesn’t hurt you.

The one thing they can’t do, at least with federally- backed loans, is to discharge the loan in bankruptcy. So in other words, meh.

[Hekate]

51. I think you are missing something. Such as...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217079727

“Great example of someone benefitting from today's student loan forgiveness plan
Hearing a lot of Republicans whining about student loan forgiveness for folks and how most didn’t go to a trade school. I did. I graduated in 1994. The original predatory loan was $18,000. Here’s what I still owe.

Total Current Balance: $9.198.31
Total Number of Loans: 1

Thank you @POTUS. This is a really BFD to me. 🇺🇸 “