I think some people are just not willing to give others a break.

[madaboutharry]

I was fortunate to have not been burdened with student loans. My parents paid for my education. I know how lucky I was.

Is there something wrong with me that I am very happy for those who will find some relief from the burden of student loan debt?

This is my opinion, but I think that the people who are complaining about "it not being fair"...blah, blah, blah...are the same people who don't think that tax money should be spent on anything that has to do with making the lives of the American people better. They are the same people who don't care if children go hungry all day and would say "Why should I pay for someone else's kid to eat lunch?"

It should also be pointed out that this isn't total loan forgiveness. It is some relief. Many people have far more debt to pay off than is getting forgiven.

We just don't live in a culture where we care about each other. That is a fact about who we are as a country.

[Walleye]

1. When I went to school state colleges and universities really cheap

I went two years to LA city College for $6.50 a semester. I got I think that’s kind of unfair to the people who came after. But there was nothing I did or could do about it.

[meadowlander]

2. Yes, exactly.

I'm never getting married or having kids but you don't see me bitching about all the tax breaks for married couples and families.

Sometimes as a matter of public policy, spending money to benefit some people to achieve a wider societal good (e.g. population replenishment, a more educated citizenry, fewer young people in debt and unable to buy homes or start families, rewarding people for their service to their country to encourage more people to do it) is the best outcome.

Not every single thing the government does has to be 100% fair to every single person.

[FoxNewsSucks]

13. I do think some of those things should be revisited though,

The world is overcrowded, maybe it would be better if governments weren't encouraging more births via tax policy.

[Sogo]

15. "Not every single thing the government does has to be 100% fair to every single person." Well said!

Being on my local HOA Board, I've had to explain as much to some of the residents whose condos weren't in need of as much attention as others....

[Bettie]

41. That last sentence

is the thing we all need to remember.

Not every single thing the government does has to be 100% fair to every single person.

It is impossible to be 100% fair to every single person all the time, because we all have different needs.

Very wise statement, meadowlander.

[KentuckyWoman]

3. Republicans

What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine. The end.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

4. These people, ultimately, worship 'competition' and degrade 'cooperation'

In that regard, they're simply less evolved. This is essentially reptilian thinking on their part.

[Skittles]

5. if I have to pay for something and someone else doesn't

I am happy for them

[BlueCheeseAgain]

6. I think some liberals are skeptical of this kind of forgiveness because it's imprecise.

A typical Democratic economic plan tries to help broadly, targeted more towards people with lower incomes. Student debt forgiveness helps a fairly small number of people (12% of the population), who tend to be pretty well off. (Not very well off, like the typical recipient of Republican largesse.) It also doesn't really address the root causes of the high cost of college. Really, the main reason for the design of this plan is that this is really the only tool that Biden has.

So for liberals who are skeptical, the problem isn't that other people are getting a break-- it's that they'd prefer a better, broader program.

[luv2fly]

7. For me it's about personal responsibility

You take on a debt, you know it. With that knowledge, you plan to pay it back.

Personal responsibility dictates you don't foist that debt onto others.

It has absolutely nothing to do with not giving others a break.

[Sky Jewels]

11. But a huge portion of students have to choose between crippling debt and not getting a higher degree

which would likely lead to higher wages.

It wasn't like this when I was young in the '80s. There were relatively cheap public university options and student loans usually didn't follow and hamper people economically for decades. Students could realistically work to help put themselves through college. Now a lot of young people can barely make rent, let alone pay for college, even with decent full-time jobs.

Judging today's students by the pre-1995 standards is wrong, wrong, wrong, IMHO. These kids didn't ask to be born in a time of ridiculously unaffordable higher education, just like we didn't ask to be born in a time when "government" hadn't been made into a dirty word by fucking Ronald Reagan.

[marybourg]

17. At 18, most students are not sophisticated enough to have

made a study of the merits of college, a particular college, or a course of study, especially when over-selling and even outright fraud has taken place. They heed society’s call, maybe overstated or outdated, to better themselves by getting a college education.

“Personal responsibility” is a Republican catch phrase which only seems to come into play for the poor, people of color and immigrants.Never even heard it used against the multi millionaires and billionaires who got tRump tax relief, PPP forgiveness, or even agains tRump himself and his cohort who take advantage of loopholes in the tax law that they bought with their lobbying money.

I went to college paid entirely by the tax-payers of NYC. For professional school I got a Pell grant paid for by the taxpayers of the U.S. My professional school tuition was $7500 for the entire three years.Same school now $189,000 for the three years. Not everyone in this country was in a position to avail themselves of these perks that I was able to because I had a well paid spouse to support me.

Not every single thing the government does has to be exactly fair to each individual in the country. Society as a whole, not just the individual college graduate, benefits from an educated and well paid citizenry.

[luv2fly]

19. You're right, 18-year-olds generally don't have that information

And too many parents, and public schools, don't teach them about money. I was lucky, my parents did. They helped instill in me a sense of personal responsibility, perhaps long before it became what you call a "Republican catchphrase."

I know my opinion isn't popular here. That's okay, I don't agree with a lot of other people's opinions about things either. I'll still vote for Democrats, and I'll still work to continue to help people. I'll also still believe that people need to take responsibility for their own debts.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

26. Well said n/t

[mopinko]

21. you should be able to discharge in bankruptcy. it's a guaranteed loan.

lots of people either dont finish, or for some reason dont get to use their degrees.
i know someone who went to nw law on loans, started his own practice, and got cracked for weed a month before it was legal in cali. he was able to discharge all his other debts, including to the irs. his life was ruined.
he's a paralegal making $20/hr. he's 57 and still making payments.
he made plans. plans dont always pan out.

and a lot of people got degrees where wages have been stagnant for decades. how is a 20 yo supposed to see that coming?
c'mon man. drop the malarky.

[luv2fly]

23. I'm well aware of the fact that not everybody's college plans work out as they might like

But if you borrow money with open eyes and an understanding you need to pay it back, then pay it back you should. It's pretty simple. I'm not asking you to agree.

[mopinko]

28. you didnt do dumb things at that age?

those ppl thought they were buying a ticket to a good life. when that didnt work out, they literally cant pay it back.

[leftstreet]

24. +1

non-dischargeable student loans are another reason lenders became predatory

[Karma13612]

34. Oh dear, that is so sad! I agree with you 1000%!!

I got a degree in Pharmacy. As in fully registered Pharmacist, passed the boards in NYS and Connecticut. The potential to make good money was there. I worked at it for nearly 10 years and hated it about 85% of the time. So, I cast it all aside looking for a career where I would be happier. I did pay off all the school debt during that time. In those days, school didn’t cost you the price of a kidney.

Fast forward, never found another lucrative career. And no one gave me credit for my BS in Pharmaceutical Science. No job put me on the pay scale at anything but entry level. I worked my way up from scratch every time. All these folks that say a college education is your ticket to a great paying job are not right 100%.

Now, after being on the earth 68 years, I’ve had numerous careers and jobs. Found some enjoyable but the money was horrible. I ended up never making more than $50K a year because, as you say, wages never went up. I started my working life in ‘78 and we all know that by then, the middle class had a big target on their back.

Oh, and talking about getting your money’s worth from tax dollars: The high school guidance counselor didn’t help guide me at all. Zero. When I actually went and paid for career counseling in my early 30’s (Johnson O’Connor Research Foundation in NYC), the results said careers like Pharmacy were dead wrong for me. I was vindicated but it didn’t help at all for which direction I should go. They suggested marketing research and public relations, both of which had zero appeal for me. What do you do when you are good at something, but don’t enjoy it. And conversely love things you are bad at??

“What color is your parachute??” HaHa!!

So, live and learn.

[mopinko]

36. ftr, this person is a trumpkin.

ex bf, broke up in early 2020. hadnt seen him before a couple weeks ago. we never did talk politics, but he's in a better place. working remote has made a big diff. the job is 1 thing, the grind of getting downtown on time every damn day is a job of it's own. i think this was very much central to what drove him over the edge.
some of his old friends have been trying to get in touch w him. i'm very much wondering what's going through his head today. i'm sure this moves the needle. how much is the question.

we do need to figure out how to reach these ppl. not all are reachable, but i'm convinced many are. i know the hurt left behind in many families and relationships. they need healing. i didnt get a lot of positive reaction to this thread. but hopefully that's just the beginning of the story.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217042696

[meadowlander]

25. Not when the need to take on debt in the first place

is driven by social inequality and institutionalized racism.

Rather than taxing corporations (who derive value and benefit from an educated citizenry) appropriately and then subsidizing higher education, we've put all the risk and costs on students and then finger-wag at them when opportunity passes them by through no fault of their own.

Fifty years ago, people didn't have to go into substantial debt to get a job they could support their family on. The cost of training you to do your job fell largely on your employer. Those costs have been placed on 18 year olds instead who have to crystal ball gaze which industries are recession proof, off-shoring proof, automation proof, within their skills and aptitudes and interests, compatible with their family responsibilities and location constraints, will pay enough to cover the debt given rising housing and health care costs and then roll the dice and hope for the best.

It is not the personal responsibility of that 18 year old that 50 years of public policy has failed them.

[Hekate]

27. *Predatory lending* should be a felony. Haven't we learned that by now?

[Johnny2X2X]

8. When I went

I went to a state university funded by taxpayers. Got federal Pell grants which were funded by taxpayers. And took student loans that were guaranteed and funded by the Federal government. The bigger part of all of this to me is the new options for income based repayment. Total game changer for me.

Our country values education and tries to promote and subsidize it.

Our country also values families. So people that have decided to reproduce get massive tax credits for their kids for 18 years. So my taxes support their decision to have kids.

All of this is just part of living in a society that tries to promote some things for the greater good.

[Karma13612]

32. Exactly-well stated.

And another angle that is being overlooked:

My husband and I have zero relatives in this area. In fact for the last 19 years we have been living here in the North Country of New York State ( Stefanik’s NY-21).

There are no kids related to us in any school system. Yet we have to pay School Tax every year. We could complain about that. Why are we paying for someone else’s kids to get an education?

Again, I agree with you. It’s part of ‘the greater good’. It’s just another talking point that needs to brought out when people start complaining about not wanting their ‘hard earned tax dollars’ going to something from which they derive no benefit. Many people we are debating with are complaining that they don’t want to chip-in their tax dollars, yet their kids are benefiting from Seniors with no kids in schools still paying school tax.

[Eliot Rosewater]

9. Today on Sirius/XM Michelangelo Signorile was trying to make the point, but he misworded it

and I was laughing at him, that as a Gay man with no kids (he didn't say it that way but I assume that is the case, the no kids part) that he has paid for stuff he does not get directly benefit from like school for kids.

And he said other stuff, but the point was obvious.

I know I have paid for things thru taxation that I dont directly benefit from, ALL THE TIME!

So I agree with you, and if you begrudge anyone getting this break, all I can say is a sincere

FUCK YOU

[USALiberal]

10. It makes no sense not to give the people that paid off already the $20,000.

[LuckyCharms]

12. I look at it this way...

Yes, life is not fair, but life is not meant to be fair.

I'm always happy to see anyone get a break.

Additionally, we've all received breaks in our lives, when others have not.

Each and every one of us.

I never begrudge breaks given to people.

[Bettie]

42. Yes! This!

I am saddened by how many are all about "me me me!".

[Sympthsical]

14. All the anger at the working classes vs tax breaks for the rich

Seems a lot more visceral and vitriolic.

Maybe because corporate welfare and tax breaks and code benefiting the wealthy are so par for the course.

Seems to be human nature that no one hates those attempting to climb more than those occupying the next rung.

[Effete Snob]

16. Yep

I paid a fortune to put mine through college too. The last one just graduated two years ago.

It was money well spent. So what.

[wiggs]

18. Because of the last 6 years, the virtue of 'empathy' looms larger in understanding

why some leaders should be chosen and others definitely should not.

Not an ounce of empathy in the previous administration.

[Karma13612]

20. As I read the reactions from across the internet regarding

Biden’s student loan debt relief plan, I can’t help but want to ask:

For those who say that all students should be getting a refund, even those who have paid in full, I ask this: How far back should you go?

Two years, 5 years? A decade?

I wish I could have kept all the money I paid back for my school loans. It was back in the 80’s so by now, it could be a tidy sum with interest.

I’m only asking because I think we all wish we could get a benefit that we might have qualified for had life worked out differently for us.

I think what Biden is doing is good. Is it fair to the hundreds-of-thousands of students who have already paid off their debts in full? No. But, life isn’t equal or fair or just.

And yes, I carry a lot of resentment towards those that qualify for all the benefits I will never be afforded because I don’t fit into any special interest group. In fact, I feel like I fell between the cracks. For instance, I’m not a military vet. They get great rewards for enlisting and when they finish their service, or so I’ve been told. I wish I had chosen a profession with a great pension that kicks in after only 20 years of employment. Can you imagine? Only Twenty Years. That leaves enuf time to have another whole career, with potentially another pension! I wish I had studied to be a nurse. I hear they get sign-on bonuses that are worth more than I ever earned in one year at any job I ever had. The list is a mile long.

We make our own lives. We get strokes of luck, and periods of bad luck. I have never gotten any financial wind falls, ever. I stopped getting money from Mom and Dad after 3 years of college. Never asked for another dime. I have paid my own way ever since.

I do understand those saying this doesn’t seem fair. But, I wish we had all been more vocal when Republican presidents gave obscene tax cuts to the top 1%. Can you imagine what that money could have gone for to help the middle class?

Oh, yea. One last thing. We Americans as a whole, are not ‘socialist’. Many Europeans feel a sense of social connection and responsibility to each other that doesn’t seem to be in our American DNA. When the US government does something good for one ‘class’ in this country, everyone else says: don’t you pay for so-in-so’s such-in-such with my tax dollars. Goes for medical care, and now, I hear it regarding this student debt relief. Not sure how we overcome that.

[mopinko]

22. people who went through bankruptcy and couldnt discharge these GUARANTEED loans,

should get all subsequent payments back.

[Demsrule86]

30. Why? This is a good thing. Let's not overcomplicate it. I paid student loans for hubs for years...I

don't begrudge the kids' help...we should be open to helping one another. I paid my tuition to UCONN so had no loans...state school. But considering my school was subsidized by taxpayers so they paid for me in a sense.

[Emile]

29. I paid a little over $120,000.00 to get our son a bachelor

degree. He went on and got his masters on his own dime. I always said to my son if I can give you one thing in life it will be a quality education. Mom and I were just hourly employees, so you can imagine what a hardship it was. We did without and paid off our loan. That said, I still believe this relief was long overdue.

[Demsrule86]

31. That is very impressive Emile.

[Celerity]

38. People in almsot every other advanced nation look at that statement in harrow.

You had $120K extracted from you and redistributed up the food chain.

The same thing for the madness that is the for-profit US healthcare system.

Education (including tertiary and beyond should you choose that) and healthcare are fundamental basic human rights in most all of the advanced world, except for the US.

To make it even worse, you have a HUGE number of people that never raise a peep (many cheer it on!) when trillions are shifted from the broad masses on up to richest 1%, 0.1% etc via massive, debt exploding tax cuts for the rich and PPP forgiveness, etc etc for millionaires and billionaires.

The entire 'I only support things that I benefit from' is the EPITOME of a RW, uber selfish, 'don't give a toss about society as a whole' mindset.

It also is absolutely false, as many of the whingers dont say shit about other wealth transfers that they never benefit from (and in many cases are negatively impacted by).

[Baggies]

33. Then make the "break" retroactive, with interest.

[demmiblue]

35. +1. It's a shame to see some of the straight-up right wing talking points regarding this on DU. n/t

[kcr]

39. A shame, but not a surprise

DU seems to be trending to the right in its membership.

[nuxvomica]

37. I graduated 100 years ago with around $7K in debt

But that was more than I earned in my first two years of my first post-graduation job. I struggled, was late once, and finally paid it off. Because of that experience, I am elated that President Biden is doing this. I don't want people to have to struggle like I had to, or worse. Some cognitive psychologists suggest that the concept of the "self" has changed in our modern age, that it extends to things like our cell phones because we depend so much on them. I say the "self" has never been limited to the individual's body, that it extends to our loved ones and pets, and that is why loss of them is so devastating yet never seems to be completely final, because our "self", which includes them, continues. I think the "self" can extend even further, to those who have struggled like we have. I am pleased with this loan forgiveness for entirely "selfish" motives.

[Autumn]

43. There is more concern about Musk and Bozo having to pay taxes than there is about

people who are struggling to hang on.

[Emile]

44. +1 spot on!

[Torchlight]

45. My guess is a lot of the resentment comes from

nothing more than "I don't want anyone getting any relief that wasn't available to me."

Heck, I worked full-time framing houses through college, took every summer semester available, bit the bullet and lived with my parents while my peers were settling into their first marriages and homes (I was having way too much fun in high school doing everything except studying to get any shot at a scholarship) .

But I realize that in the here and now, a full-time (non-career) job just won't pay for college anymore. It cost me about $3,000/year. Now it's averaging over $47,000 for that same span at that same school.

An educated electorate is an absolute boon to any nation. Yet since Reagan began defunding public education, and we've created a college education priced out of reach of far too many, I'm positively thrilled to see this step taken. And I hope to see more steps in this same direction as we progress as a nation.

[LAS14]

46. Reducing student debt is not just about making individuals' lives easier. It's...

... about the future health of our country. Having an educated populace is absolutely essential for all of us to live in health and prosperity. The beneficiaries of having an educated populace are also those who, for whatever reason, did not go on to higher education. We all, including bus drivers and janitors and garbage pickup people, benefit from an educated populace.