Goalposts moved: it's up to DOJ to prove he DIDN'T declassify

[Nevilledog]

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Eric Kleefeld
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Aug 31, 2022
@EricKleefeld
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Fox Business guest seriously moves the goalposts: “He’s claiming he declassified them. He does not need to prove he declassified them. This is a criminal forum, he does have a presumption of innocence. The DOJ would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he didn’t do so.”


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Eric Kleefeld
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As the DOJ filing points out, Trump’s people never made any representation in all their back-and-forth drama that documents had ever been declassified. Indeed, during one handover they sure treated those documents as if they were secret.

You really can prove he made this up now!
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11:21 AM · Aug 31, 2022

1. It doesn't matter if they are classified or not, just that they have NDI

And

2. That's not how this would work if it WAS a defense to the charges. Proving they were declassified would be an affirmative defense that would place the burden on the defendant to prove.

[BlueIdaho]

1. Next Phase

“Ok he took the classified highly secret documents but it’s not really that big of a deal.”

[Claustrum]

5. TFG's lawyer already did that in an interview this morning.

Espionage is mundane......

[BlueIdaho]

9. Wow - his collapse is imminent.

His defense is crumbling into nonsense and mumbo jumbo.

[spanone]

10. He should tell that to the Rosenbergs...Oh right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg

[uponit7771]

18. +1, their current defense is the documents weren't that top secret as if they are still the one who

... defines what is secret to this day.

[Wounded Bear]

2. Mere possession of the documents is a crime, even the "unclassified" ones...

The documents DO NOT BELONG TO trump. They belong to the US Government. Even the unclassified ones belong to the National Archives, not trump.

The espionage violation is almost an add on. It is a very serious violation of National Security, but the path runs through the illegal retention of government property/documents.

[MichMan]

24. Seems like that is enough evidence of guilt to arrest him immediately

With no possible defense. Why drag out more investigations if he can be convicted and jailed now?

[Wounded Bear]

27. It is the lower violation that leads to the others...

and the investigation continues, most likely because trump wasn't acting alone. He had help and I'm sure they're digging to find out who that was and where it leads. Probably, it leads back to Moscow...and I don't mean Idaho.

[Aviation Pro]

3. No fucking standing

Get the fuck back in your fucking lane.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

4. And it doesn't count as declassification if someone wearing a red cap and with tears in their eyes

And it doesn’t count as declassification if someone wearing a red cap and with tears in their eyes approached him and said, “Sir, thank you for declassifying those documents.”

Link to tweet

[TygrBright]

6. That'd be dead easy, anyway.

You cannot, even if you are the President, declassify documents by waving yer wand and hollering "Documentum Declassifactum!"

Declassification is a process that involves other people, records, logs, etc. It takes time, it is checked and re-checked.

They must think everyone is as dumb as [Redacted]'s rubes.

dismissively,
Bright

[halfulglas]

7. Would someone please inform FOX that it doesn't matter if he did.

Their classification is not the primary issue (although it is shocking that he has them). He has no right to them because they are government property and he is not entitled to take them. The government asked for them back but he still kept them. The fact that many of them are classified makes the penalty worse, but he is not entitled to any of them.

[Pantagruel]

8. Declassification TS docs

would be worse than mishandling as it allows anyone to file a FOIA request to access them.

[uponit7771]

11. ***NOPE*** 2018 case under DC District Judge Andrew Carter says there needs to be a process !!

It was a case ruled in favor of Trump too !!!

https://archive.ph/LgrJT

Precedent from the Trump years suggests that even a written announcement that something is declassified is insufficient. In 2018, a federal judge agreed with the Justice Department that a Trump press release instructing the “immediate declassification” of materials related to the investigation into his campaign’s ties with Russia was not an order and they remained classified.

[NQAS]

12. First of all

I think I’ve read hear that the DOJ has this aspect of things covered.

On top of that, you can’t prove a negative. Rather, TFG has to prove that he did declassify. Which takes us back to my first sentence, which is that the DOJ has this covered.

[Faux pas]

13. Yeah Sure Ya Betcha

So glad faux snooze isn't the be all and end all of our legal system

[live love laugh]

14. ✔️

[Mr. Ected]

15. Disinformation to raise the indignancy level of the cultists

It doesn't matter if what they say is legit, only that it raises their dander.

Which is why a propaganda news channel is the most dangerous force in the universe.

[unblock]

16. declassifying them would be an admission that they were government documents.

there goes his claim that they were just personal items. if they were just personal items, they wouldn't have been classified in the first place.

[uponit7771]

21. +1, I see the "personal items" way as TFGs only avenue to slither out of this and even that is ...

... going to be sticky cause it looks like a judge ruled in TFGs favor in 2018 that declassification has to be formal

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217105564#post2

[exboyfil]

17. As an affirmative defense

Then Trump would subject himself to questioning on cross examination. I don't think he wants to do that. The important thing is avoiding some a_hole FBI agent giving him an opportunity to do a self serving recorded statement that can then be shown to the jury to establish his affirmative defense. This worked well for George Zimmerman - someone posted about it at the time on the board. Zimmerman has just testified after his video of the interview was shown - he won't have to again.

[uponit7771]

20. +1, It sounds like even a recorded or a written statement announcement wont do as a declaration of..

... a document being declassified.

Benedict Donald brought this one on himself (link)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217105564#post2

[malaise]

19. He is not supposed to have any of them

They are not his formfuck sake

[Emile]

22. Classified or declassified doesn't matter. It's the theft

of stolen government property that matters.

[MichMan]

25. Then what is the DOJ waiting for?

They've already proven their case with what they have already found.

[Emile]

28. I don't know. He may be trying to convince

the 33% that their Con God did commit crimes that endangered our country's security?

[Delphinus]

23. Faux, OANN, Newsmax

all need to be taken off the air for their blatant lies.

[mahina]

26. I remember learning in a logic class once that you can't prove a negative

True?