Did Judge Deerie just say tfg lawyers can't see the classified docs?

[getagrip_already]

I think so.....

Now Trusty is asking about getting security clearance process started. Judge says he thought of that earlier but adds: 'It's not just a matter of having clearance. It's a matter of need to know...if you need to know you, will know.'

Judge says he hopes he can resolve matter w/o seeing the classified if possible. Edelstein emphasizes that some on prosecution team don't have the necessary clearances. Trusty: 'It's kind of astounding to hear the government say the president's lawyers don't have a need to know.'

It's kind of astounding that tfg's lawyers don't understand the basis of the term "Need to know". They don't have one wrt the contents of the docs. Indeed, if they are used as evidence in a trial, the court wouldn't actually see the actual docs. They would get a proxy description of them, sanitized and declassified, but representing the importance of the contents to nat sec.

Even prosecutors don't have a need to know.

The rules and procedures are there to prevent a defendent from blackmailing the state by threatening to release screts as part of the trial. And Deeries is acknowledging that even HE doesn't have a need to know.

Anyway, it's quite a positive statement.

Oh, and I doubt the lawyers realize that to get hat level of clearance, they will have to be interviewed under oath attached to a polygraph about not only their past, but their lifestyle (who they have sex with, who knows, etc). Should be interesting once they find that out.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1572289852376334337

[usonian]

1. Who the hell has a need to know about agent identites, nuclear weapon secrets and so on ..

besides those charged with using them for their intended purpose?

NOBODY, REPEAT: NOBODY.

Need to know is basically EVERYTHING.

Clearances are not Halloween candy. Duhhhhh.

Only a proxy and/or highly redacted version can ever be shown to someone who doesn't.

[getagrip_already]

5. yeah, it's extremely telling he doesn't want to look at them himself....

He spent too many years on the fisa court to not know what could be in those docs. And he doesn't believe even he has a need to know.

This could get interesting with judge carrol who ordered that tfg's lawyers (but not the doj) could see them. The exact wording may give deerie an out though, since she doesn't know what the correct terminology is.

She is likely drunk at this point though. (/s).

But today was not a win for tfg. Even the delay may be brief if the 11th kicks up.

[kentuck]

2. Do you mean our lies and bullshit are no good here?

Is that what you are saying, Judge?

[ScratchCat]

3. This is ridiculous on so many levels

First, if the docs were not classified they wouldn't need clearance. Wonder why they haven't argued that!

Second, Trusty is clearly pretending Trump is POTUS when he makes the comment that "it's astounding the court wouldn't see The President"a lawyers as needing to know". It's disrespectful to the court and judge needs to shut that down.

Next, they can't give Trumps attorney ts clearance because it would be the same as giving Trump clearance. He couldn't obtain it as a civilian as this was discussed time and time again as a reason why he should never have been allowed to be POTUS.

Lastly, I wish the governing agencies would just step up and state the documents were never declassified. It would go a long way. The fact that they haven't makes me wonder if the docs are just things Trump himself classified to keep investigation away(like Ukraine phone call, Putin transcript,etc)

[getagrip_already]

6. I believe the doj has said so multiple times....

The DNI even stated it directly. The gov't believes them to be classified per their existing markings. And, that is all it takes to make them classified.

[lindysalsagal]

19. I agree with your assumprion that he took them because

They prove his crimes of treason. Taking them was an attempted cover-up by someone who really didn't believe he'd be evicted from the wh.

[inthewind21]

4. It's really

Astounding he's calling himself the President's lawyer.

[getagrip_already]

8. Isn't that technically the honoraria historically given to an fpotus?

If you met Jimmy carter for example, you would be perfectly polite to refer to him as Mr. President, even though both of you know he isn't the current president, and you aren't implying he is.

Generals, judges, and senators get the same honor.

It doesn't mean anything beyond honorary politeness (well, for anyone not in tfg's circle).

[Johnny2X2X]

7. This lawyer will end up in jail

The judge is alluding to him having already viewed this stuff that he wasn’t supposed to have. He has notes in his own hand indicating he broke the law.

[intrepidity]

9. Isn't one of his lawyers a registered agent with Venezuela?

Yeah, that clearance is in the mail.

[getagrip_already]

10. I think he worked for a firm that represented the venezuelan leader......

I'm not sure if he personally represented him or has any current ties.

In any case, the doj hasn't brought that up as an issue. Of course he hasn't started the clearance process either.

[ultralite001]

11. From the Dept of State (Foreign Affairs Manual)...

Don't have the White House procedure manual handy...


12 FAM 536.1-2 Determination of Need-to-Know

(CT S-339; 10-27-2020)
(Uniform State, OPIC, USTDA)

A person is not entitled to receive classified information solely by virtue of official position or by virtue of having been granted a security clearance. A person must also have a need for access to the particular classified information sought in connection with the performance of official U.S. Government duties or contractual obligations, or as otherwise specifically authorized by these regulations. The officers with responsibility for the classified information must make the determination of that need.

[getagrip_already]

12. I've had clearances at the dod and doe..... same basic definition

The higher the classification, the more rules there are. Beyond top secret, even if you have a need to know, you have to be "read in" to the program controlling the doc.

It caused a lot of delay, but also prevented a lot of issues.

[ultralite001]

13. Folks who haven't worked for the govt often don't understand how anal the system is...

Accountability comes with a cost.

At the same time, if, and/or when the time comes --

and fingers need pointing...

Access control with all the bells and whistles can be one's friend...


The devil in the details may facilitate the RTumpster's downfall...



Thanks for sharing...

[plimsoll]

16. I never worked directly for the government, but I worked with export.

Even DoC (EAR) data needs to be handled with more care than these folks are seem to understand.

That raises all sorts of questions. The legal doctrine that seems to be being proposed for Trump is that he is special and the laws don't apply to him. We all have seen that rich people get a special law, but we rarely see it actually argued in a court that they are exempt. If this argument is permitted to stand, then we either have to amend the 14th amendment to put exemptions in place, or everyone should be exempt.

[ultralite001]

24. Well said...

Thx for sharing...

That is all...

[Lonestarblue]

14. Then why was Trump ever given top-secret documents to identify CIA agents and methods?

He had no need to know. But I guess it’s difficult to refuse a sitting president. Although, everyone in government had to know that Trump was always a security risk. Why didn’t they mask the information better? He would not have known the difference.

[rateyes]

15. Why the hell are they wanting a security clearance if

TFG declassified them? More evidence that he didn’t.

[lindysalsagal]

20. Right. The double-speak is mind-numbing.

[H2O Man]

17. Recommended.

Way, way recommended.

[Bev54]

18. I am doubtful any of Trump's lawyers can even get clearance, including Kise who

is registered as a foreign agent for Venezuela.

[OhioTim]

21. Still Want To Know

why a Regan and Roberts appointee who was one of Trump's two choices for special master was accepted by the DOJ.

[getagrip_already]

23. They are probably wondering what tfg was thinking.....

Ols school federal judge, fisa court experience, stellar reputation.....

They probably just stared stunned for a moment and then high fived.

[NoMoreRepugs]

22. Trump creates a KeyStone Cop reality.

[Grins]

25. Special Master was called to protect Lawyer-Client confidentiality.

His lawyers don’t have to see the contents. Screen out any documents containing any names of Trump lawyers, review those, and be done with it.