I'm surprised and disappointed that Thom Hartman doesn't know much about the American Liberty League

[brush]

Last edited Tue Sep 27, 2022, 12:17 PM - Edit history (1)

On this David Corn video (the 5:40 mark) discussing the decades-long history of right wing extremism in the republican part, Thom Hartman absolutely disappointed me in his incorrect knowledge about the American Liberty League coup attempt in the '30s

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017770820

saying: "...and then you had Smedley Butler and his merry band, you know 500k men with the Liberty League I think it was, whatever that veterans group was called that wanted to kidnapped FDR and perhaps kill him and replace him with a good fascist, right winger..."

God, I lost much respect for him right there. How does he not know that General Smedley Butler feigned being interested with the group of American industrialits, among them Prescott Bush, a Dupont, Sloan of GM and other prominent businessmen, who wanted him to lead an army of dissatisfied vets in a coup to overthrow FDR and install fascism.

Butler, who wrote "War is a Racket", exposed the whole plot, and Roosevelt threatened to expose their treachery if they tried to stop his New Deal initiatives.

How does Hartman not know all this actual history when he's supposed to be this super knowledgeable progressive? He actually scoffed and laughed at Gen. Butler, a true American hero.

[ariadne0614]

1. Regular TH listeners know otherwise.

Thom has told the heroic story of Smedley Butler many times. I heard him tell it again very recently. There must be a reasonable explanation for this misunderstanding. I’m guessing he momentarily assumed his listeners knew he wasn’t including SB in his derision.

[brush]

2. I was surprised at what he said in the video.

Did you watch it at the 5:40 mark? He made fun of Gen. Butler and said he was part of the coup attempt. It's right in the video.

I certainly expected him of all people to know the correct details of the attempted coup.

[William Seger]

7. Do you not believe ariadne0614's post?

Hartmann has talked about Butler and the coup attempt many times. True, he didn't go into the details this time, but you have jumped to an unwarranted conclusion.

[brush]

33. Why would he forget the correct details on this video?

There's no denying what he said on the video.

[William Seger]

40. All he said was "Smedley Butler and his merry band"

... and he didn't go into ANY details because the point he was making was just about the coup attempt. You took that to mean he thinks Butler led the coup, which is an unfortunate misunderstanding, but it's pretty clear from other evidence that he does not believe that. Let it go.

[brush]

41. He said what he said. Maybe he discussed it before on his show...

but what he said on that video does not show that. But I was surprised that he didn't seem to understand that Butler foiled the coup attempt. He didn't make that clear at all.

Watch it again then tell me he made it clear that he knew Gen. Butler exposed the coup attempt.

I used to listen to him but never heard him discuss it before. I stopped listening when he went to Russia Today though.

[William Seger]

42. Jeez, it was just an extemporaneous conversation, not even a podcast script

... and again, the point he was making was just about previous coup plots existing. No, he did not "make it clear" that he knew much of anything about it beyond that it happened, but that was sufficient for the point he was making. Go ahead and ding him for not taking that tangent, but I'm pretty sure he's familiar with the events.

[brush]

44. It's ok. I was just going by his words. I don't listen to him any more.

[Liberal In Texas]

27. You are correct. He's mentioned SB foiling the plot many many times.

He just didn't this time as the subject wasn't all about the plot against Roosevelt but how the repubs have gone off the rails historically.

[rubbersole]

3. Thom Hartmann is the most informed person in media today.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on any subject at any time. If someone explains an error in his thinking, he'll thank them and correct it. You don't always have to agree with him, but you sure know where he's coming from.

[Emile]

14. +1 Spot On!

[betsuni]

4. Not surprised, don't trust his judgement.

Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

[Hortensis]

10. Same here. Still, didn't listen, but maybe he had a lapse.

Even brief reading of what we now know about the brain, information interpretation and storage, and recall is pretty dismaying. Brain farts are normal. Also dismaying, but evident everywhere, is that people can live whole lifetimes taking in information and processing truths and reality into incompatible notions.

[William Seger]

11. All he did was mention "Smedley Butler and his merry band"

... which the OP takes to imply that Hartmann believes Butler organized the coup. But, since I've heard him mention Butler and his book before, I know that's not a valid inference. I think Hartmann was just using Butler's name as a shorthand reference to the whole affair.

[Hortensis]

13. Yes, and maybe his statement was misunderstood. That often happens.

[betsuni]

12. It seems to be which audience he's addressing.

Sometimes his information is correct, sometimes it's promoting "progressive populism" as the only future and blaming Democrats for everything, claims FDR was a populist. Lane change for socialist populists to change history and make FDR into a socialist. Not true and shame on anyone who does it.

[Hortensis]

19. That last IS absurd. He must know what populism is.

At this point I'm remembering the attempts to associate Bernie with FDR/New Deal, and break the association of socialist Bernie with the socialists who loathed FDR and considered the New Deal a betrayal of the people (it did leave capitalism intact and wealthy classes in place). The socialist movement then, like today's, was also a populist movement to harness the potentially white-hot anti-establishment populist energy.

These days many sympathizers of the RW and LW populist movements are trying to redefine the word to make populism sound nice, actually downright admirable!, instead of mostly very unadmirable and potentially very dangerous. Currently, a resurgent populist wave threatens the continued existence of many democracies, including ours.

Speaking of, aggressive neofascist populists have just elected a descendent of Mussolini Italy's prime minister.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

30. +1 Million

[betsuni]

32. +1

[Hassin Bin Sober]

43. Oh here we go...

[obamanut2012]

23. Same, don't get the DU love for him tbh

[Bernardo de La Paz]

5. Poor wording on Hartmann's part

Apparently he is quite knowledgeable. He's written a dozen or so books.

It is amazing how many people are willing to write off a lifetime of work and dedication because of one slip-up. "One slip up?!?" Of course the Hartmann bashers will arrive and dredge up his unfortunate association with RT.

[betsuni]

9. Not one slip up. A lot.

Attacks on Democrats for years.

[ariadne0614]

16. +1 n/t

[yardwork]

22. So you agree that his association with RT was "unfortunate?"

[ariadne0614]

28. I do. n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. Dissing works best with correct spelling of names. . . . . nt

[burrowowl]

8. Kick

[FreepFryer]

15. Hartmann was broadcast by RT, a registered Russian military intel branch, for years.

They provided him with broadcast and production assistance - free of charge - for years.

his aura of progressivism is borrowed.

[ariadne0614]

17. Your words are meaningless to this regular listener.

After two decades, I’ll trust my own judgement about Thom Hartmann’s integrity. FWIW, I also forgave Nicolle Wallace for her former career as a Republican operative.

[FreepFryer]

18. opinions arent facts. its meaningless that Russian intelligence broadcast him? hard disagree.

our side doesnt ignore realities that are inconvenient.

[ariadne0614]

24. You're right. Opinions aren't facts.

Last edited Tue Sep 27, 2022, 10:52 AM - Edit history (1)

If you aren’t a regular listener, then your opinion about TH is not based on a full range of facts.

[FreepFryer]

25. Unreal. By your logic only Qanon followers can decide if Qanon is real. Enjoy the program. (nt)

[ariadne0614]

29. Your persistence inspired me to edit my response. n/t

[FreepFryer]

31. That's good, as the original version was lacking. Glad it prompted some self-reflection. (nt)

[ariadne0614]

35. I hope mine does the same for you. n/t

[FreepFryer]

36. nope, your point is still 100% wrong but at least its self-negating now. thx! :)

[ariadne0614]

38. if having the last word helps you feel better, you just go right ahead. n/t

[FreepFryer]

39. lol! K. (nt)

[Emile]

20. If you don't like him why do you listen to him?

Myself I think he is the best progressive voice out there and find it odd people on du putting him down.

[yardwork]

21. This doesn't surprise me at all. /nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

47. What doesn't surprise you? That you would latch on to this demonstrably false nonsense take?

[Demsrule86]

26. That is often called the business man's revolt...

[Elessar Zappa]

34. I stopped respecting him

when I found out he worked for a while for RT.

[Hortensis]

45. I didn't pay attention until 2015 or so and stopped listening when I realized

the intelligent-sounding content that drew me was a delivery vehicle for anti-Democratic Party influence narratives meant to splinter away voters. About that time I also realized his seemingly real "Progressive" ardor was being used to launder Kremlin propaganda to his listeners -- this at a time when the Kremlin's political warfare was focused on defeating Democrats -- in order to break our nation permanently, and Hartmann's admirers with it.

Why would anyone do this? What goes on in their heads?

And in those who embrace the "wisdom" and what it's hiding and seemingly never notice anything strange? Or compartmentalize it away? Too upset by then about Democratic corruption and the dozens of elections Democratic demons and Evil Hillary are "rigging" against Bernie to notice that Putin's taken to PMing them? Psychologists study and come up with lay explanations, but I do not understand.

He's lightened up his product a great deal, has definitely lightened up on evil Democrats now that Bernie's joined them to stop a RW revolution. BUT, how well would his 2016-style product sell in the current environment when what'll happen if the Democratic Party fascism-fighters lose to Orange Jesus and his MAGAs, and Russia, is belatedly scaring the hell out of them?

The product needed restyling, but he hasn't changed. He's what he's proven himself to be, to my reading one of those deeply flawed and untrustworthy voices who prosper by feeding the demand on the illiberal left for their own wisdom.

[SouthBayDem]

37. I quit listening when he hosted antivaccine filmmaker Del Bigtree

Last edited Tue Sep 27, 2022, 10:40 PM - Edit history (1)

The association with RT TV was bad enough. But so much “left wing” media (Hartmann, TYT, Chapo Traphouse) is as hopelessly biased and fact challenged as right wing media. I prefer NPR, BBC, books, or scholarly outlets for political info.

[Hortensis]

46. "as hopelessly biased and fact challenged as..." Well said.

I remember that too.

Bernie Sanders also wooed anti-vaxxers as a Vermont politician. But he espoused some 1960s-70sish "wisdom beyond science" when young, and revealed tendencies to "magical thinking" 40 years later when explaining how he'd get things done as POTUS. I didn't know if the anti-vax sympathies were wooing voters, part of antiestablishment/alternative-wisdom beliefs, or both.

In any case, Hartmann's apparently always had a leaning toward mysticism and spiritualism, a greater wisdom beyond the limitations of proven facts and science. And wisdom beyond those who rely on the latter.