What's the abbreviation for LGBTQIA2S+ ?

[eppur_se_muova]

From an actual job posting.

[obamanut2012]

1. Google it

[sl8]

2. You want to abbreviate the abbreviation? nt

[eppur_se_muova]

3. It's beginning to seem necessary.

Maybe there are better ways to deal with people than trying to list them all ?

[sl8]

14. OK, gotcha. I misunderstood the OP. nt

[eppur_se_muova]

16. Else look where we could end up ...

The longest acronym is NIIOMTPLABOPARMBETZHELBETRABSBOMONIMONKONOTDTEKHSTROMONT with 56 letters (54 in Cyrillic) in the Concise Dictionary of Soviet Terminology, Institutions and Abbreviations (1969), meaning: the laboratory for reinforcement, concrete and ferroconcrete operations, for composite-monolithic and monolithic constructions, of the Department of the Technology of Building-assembly operations, of the Scientific Research Institute of the Organization for mechanization and technical aid; this organization was employed for building the Academy of Building and Architecture of the USSR.

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/67249-longest-acronym


There was actually an official abbreviation for the abbreviation.

(There are more letters than words because Russians typically use first syllalbles, not just first letters, for acronyms.)

[FreeState]

74. Unless your part of the community

Please don’t try and tell us what to call ourselves. Talk about privilege.

[yardwork]

83. I respect your opinion a lot, so I'd like to talk about that.

On the one hand, I totally see where you're coming from about respect for self-identification and it not being anybody else's business what we call ourselves. As a femme cis lesbian, I prefer the short identifier "gay." Everybody has the right to choose their own personal identifier.

But now that we've asked the world as a whole to recognize the vast diversity of sexual and gender identities, it's fair for them to have some say in what they're putting in HR job listings, for instance. The acronym is getting long, and, unintentionally, becomes less inclusive as we try to include a letter or number for everybody. Now small minorities may justifiably feel excluded, because almost everybody else is specifically identified. When this happens, sometimes a reversion to a simpler more universally inclusive word might be best. I have no idea what that might be, though.

[Tree-Hugger]

98. +1 nt

[beaglelover]

101. I'm gay. I'm fine if we used

LGBT+

It’s getting a little ridiculous, IMO.

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. "rainbow" (nt)

[eppur_se_muova]

5. Nice suggestion.

Made me think of ROYGBIV for a second, but that's no better! :/

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. There's also "quiltbag"

which picks up all of the initials in LGBTQIA, adds a 'U' for "undecided" / "unspecified" etc. (nicely open-ended), and yet is pronounceable.

[Srkdqltr]

37. QUILTBAG? I'm a quilter and make bags. So I guess that's me. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[LymphocyteLover]

117. that's good -- be nice if it caught on

[walkingman]

6. Queer - I think that is an umbrella term that covers it all......I think?

[David__77]

34. I'll guess it's a small minority of gay and lesbian people who would say they are "queer."

I get that some have embraced it. The group Queer Nation did some good political work. I don’t think it’s a palatable term for many.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

42. I hear it a lot as a self-identifier

But it’s usually for some varying shade of non-binary.

[Tree-Hugger]

46. Queer

Queer is a very, very common word in the Queer community nowadays. It was less commonly used a few decades ago, but has exploded in use in the 2000's. Queer as Folk in the late 90's/early 2000's probably helped that along. It's become a preferred word, especially among the younger Millennials and into the Gen Z folks, but a lot of fellow queer GenX people use it as well. I remember it being used in the early to mid 90's as the community began taking the word back. If I am not mistaken, the notion of taking back that word began even before the 90's.....but I was a kid in the 80's and not as aware of it.

Folks even use it for parts of their identity labels these days. The term "genderqueer" is an example. Many prefer "Queer" because it's easier than listing the specific aspects of identity and/or because it's easier for folks with fluid identities.

[sir pball]

68. Q is Questioning, not Queer

People who aren't sure what their sexuality it but know it's not hetero, or at least that's my understanding of the Q.

[yardwork]

7. I'm gay and I agree with you.

I don't know whose idea it was to keep dividing "gay" into more and more subdivisions but I don't think it's a very strategic approach.

And while I'm probably jumping into a flame war I'll go all-in: I think the rainbow flag is comprehensive of all people and doesn't need to be added to with additional colors and non-colors. The rainbow already means everybody.

I expect to get flamed.

[betsuni]

9. +1

[PJMcK]

12. No flames from me

I agree whole-heartedly.

[Sympthsical]

13. With you. I hate the flags

And, ironically, it feels like the rainbow is literally being shoved off the flag over time. I'm part of a group that reworked their logo and . . . I don't even know what's on that thing. There's maybe a rainbow at the margins. It looks ridiculous, ugly as sin, and it's devolved into self-parody at this point. Rainbow = everyone. The end.

For professional things, I just put LGBT+. Short and sweet.

This could be an age thing. A gay professor of mine who's a bit older than me is heading up a new school Pride group, and we had this conversation about advertising and things. He doesn't know what to include, what not, how to make everything inclusive. I said, "Leave it as Pride, because if you start using letters, you'll be playing an eternal round of the world's worst Wheel of Fortune."

Pride covers everything.

[yardwork]

15. Confusing allies, splintering what should be solidarity, I don't get it.

[sdfernando]

21. You get no argument from this gay man

It used to be “gay”, then “gay/lesbian”, then “gay/lesbian/bisexual”, then “LGB”, then “LGBT”, then “LBBTQ”…..where does it end? As another poster said it invites criticism and derision. It also starts to separate and categorize us which starts to divide us when we need to be United and supportive of each other. I’m also of the same opinion on the Rainbow flag. It includes everyone all the time…everyone!

[BlackSkimmer]

25. Same here.

[ChazII]

27. No flames from me. n/t

[Ms. Toad]

44. Initially it was the idea of lesbians, many of whom feel gay does not include us.

Next it was bisexuals who felt lesbian and gay did not include them, then transgender individuals, then queer (which many of us older folk resist - but which resonates with a lot of younger folks and those who don't fit in elsewhere - like, for example, straight women married to gay men).

It isn't strategy to create more sub-divisions, it is listening to the minorities within the minority who have told us they don't feel included by the current names. We had a multi-year discussion both when we added "lesbian" to the name of an organization I belong with (which included the women in the group locking themselves off separate from the men until them men came to their senses), and then another multi-year discussion when we added BTQ to our name.

It is a matter of giving respect to our sub-groups when they tell us they don't feel included.

[yardwork]

67. I get that, and I certainly don't want to exclude anyone, but it's gotten unwieldy.

When well-meaning allies feel shamed because they fear using the wrong acronym, it needs a new approach.

There is an almost infinite range of sexual and gender identities. To me, the rainbow expresses that beautifully.

[Ms. Toad]

111. That was the argument many of us gays and lesbians made,

when asked to add bisexual, transgender, and queer to our organization's name. We thought the name was too unwieldy. We suggested many alternate names - including rainbow. The transgender, bisexual, and and folks who identified as queer among us told us in no uncertain terms that we were being disrespectful.

At some point, I hope that all of us will be accepted for who we are, and will no longer feel the need to spell out each of our varied identitiees, but until then - since they have told me that rainbow does NOT express it beautifully for them, I will respect their wishes. It is not up to me to tell them that I think rainbow expresses it beautifully, when they clearly feel excluded.

[Behind the Aegis]

58. Agreed.

Sadly, I think there are too many that can't or won't have a discussion about it in a way that is productive. Most of the "divisions" aren't even about sexual orientation anymore, they are all about gender. People can't seem to comprehend gender and sexual orientation aren't the same thing.

[yardwork]

71. It's a sign that we're still under attack when this has to controversial.

[beaglelover]

104. I'm gay and agree with you!

[Oneironaut]

108. Trans people aren't the same thing as being gay. Some are gay, but

also claim another letter in that case.

[JI7]

124. The Traditional Rainbow Flag is also International

People in all nations in every continent use it. I always saw it was a symbol that United the lgbt+ worldwide.

I don't think I have seen the different versions outside the US.

[irisblue]

10. Is the job posting in an arts field? I found this after googling the term

LGBTQIA2S+ mean? LGTBQIA2S+ is an acronym for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer and/or Questioning, Intersex, Asexual, Two-Spirit, and the countless affirmative ways in which people choose to self-identify.
https://portlandartmuseum.org › learn
Powerful Self: LGBTQIA2S+ Lives Today - Portland Art Museum

[IcyPeas]

62. Two-Spirit.... had to look this one up. I've never heard this before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit

Two-spirit (also two spirit, 2S or, occasionally, twospirited) is a modern, pan-Indian, umbrella term used by some Indigenous North Americans to describe Native people in their communities who fulfill a traditional third-gender (or other gender-variant) ceremonial and social role in their cultures.[1][2][3]

The term Two Spirit (original form chosen) was created in 1990 at the Indigenous lesbian and gay international gathering in Winnipeg, and "specifically chosen to distinguish and distance Native American/First Nations people from non-Native peoples".[4] The primary purpose of coining a new term was to encourage the replacement of the outdated and considered offensive, anthropological term, berdache.[4][5] This new term has not been universally accepted, having been criticized as a term of erasure by traditional communities who already have their own terms for the people being grouped under this new term, and by those who reject what they call the "Western" binary implications, such as implying that Natives believe these individuals are "both male and female".[4] However, it has generally received more acceptance and use than the anthropological term it replaced.[6][5][7]

"Two Spirit" was not intended to be interchangeable with "LGBT Native American" or "Gay Indian";[2] rather, it was created in English (and then translated into Ojibwe), to serve as a pan-Indian unifier, to be used for general audiences instead of the traditional terms in Indigenous languages for what are diverse, culturally-specific ceremonial and social roles, that can vary widely (if and when they exist at all).[1][2][4] Opinions vary as to whether or not this objective has succeeded.[4][8] The decision to adopt this new, pan-Indian term was also made to distance themselves from non-Native gays and lesbians,[9] as the term and identity of two-spirit "does not make sense" unless it is contextualized within a Native American or First Nations framework and traditional cultural understanding.[3][10][11] However, the gender-nonconforming, LGBT, or third and fourth gender, ceremonial roles traditionally embodied by Native American people and Indigenous peoples in Canada, intended to be under the modern umbrella of two-spirit, can vary widely, even among the Indigenous people who accept the English-language term. No one Native American/First Nations' culture's gender or sexuality categories apply to all, or even a majority of, these cultures.[4][8]

[irisblue]

64. I first read the phrase "two spirit" in the 70s when paperback publishers learned there was $

In stories about lesbian women, gay men and bisexual people.

I'm pretty sure it was from Marge Piercys' 1970 book.
'Dance the Eagle to Sleep. It has been many many years since I read it, but the book jumped to memory when you posted.

http://www.dancingtoeaglespiritsociety.org/twospirit.php from 2006 website quotes this "Two-spirit people were often the visionaries, the healers, the medicine people, the nannies of orphans, the care givers (Roscoe 1988)"

[bucolic_frolic]

11. From labels come categories

From categories come hierarchies.

From hierarchies come prejudice.

This is not the path to head down.

[Oneironaut]

18. Society started labeling LGBT+ people, not the other way around.

Until we can exist without being murdered, denied work, be accused of being “groomers,” and not have our very existence questioned, we will always be stronger in a group.

[bucolic_frolic]

122. Like Warsaw ghettoes, 1939, right? /nt

[Oneironaut]

139. I don't get what your point is?

Calling myself trans allows me to find other people like me. Telling me to stop labeling myself sounds to me like, “Why can’t you just be normal so that the government doesn’t murder you.”

With the LGBT+ community, we’re stronger. It’s when we’re denied existence that we can be murdered.

[meadowlander]

120. Yeah, no.

Last edited Sun Oct 2, 2022, 11:18 PM - Edit history (1)

If non-binary, aromantic and asexual "labels" had existed in the common vernacular when I was young maybe I wouldn't have had to wait 45 years to realise I was all of those things, gotten myself into a lot fewer shitty situations, not missed the boat on opportunities to transition when it was easier on my health and less socially awkward, find relationships that were appropriate to my orientation(s), and not felt like a freak of nature for decades.

Prejudice comes from people not being able to understand or accept difference. Difference already inherently exists. Let those of us who are different have the words to understand who and what we are. It saves lives.

[bucolic_frolic]

121. It didn't save any lives when the holocaust perps categorized everyone

It just made them easier to find.

[meadowlander]

125. So your solution to the Holocaust is to ask people to stop being gay or Jewish?

The burden is not on the person who is the thing to stop being the thing or to stop identifying themselves as the thing.

The burden is on everyone else to recognise that not everyone is exactly like them and that's fine.

Your example is so absurd I honestly don't even know where to start.

[dsp3000]

17. I'm an ally. But These abbreviations are getting out of hand and invite rw mockery

That's all I'll say about it. Slam me all you want

[AZSkiffyGeek]

20. So you're an ally....

Who doesn’t like identifying people the way they prefer. Gotcha.

[leftstreet]

24. You have proof people are asking to be identified this way?

Is the gay community self-labeling, or being labeled?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

26. I identify people the way they ask to be identified

And don’t complain that it is too hard and unnecessary.

[leftstreet]

28. Unless they ask to identified as an ally n/t

[AZSkiffyGeek]

29. Actions prove allyship

Complaining that respecting peoples identities fuels the RW isn’t being an ally.

[Tree-Hugger]

48. +1 nt

[Silent3]

73. If someone insisted that their identity could only be expressed with a five-minute long ceremony...

...I'd either avoid talking about that person completely, or come up with a shorthand form, this person's insistence on the five-minute long ceremony be damned. (And please, don't treat my obviously intentional exaggeration, for illustrative purposes, as if it were totally literal, and use it that as a convenient straw man to tackle.)

Besides that, LGBT, LGBTQ, and the really out-there LGBTQIA2S+ aren't any one person's self-identity, they are merely increasingly cumbersome and increasingly lampoonable attempts to create an all-inclusive umbrella terminology for every conceivable variation on not being a cisgender heterosexual.

Fuck this divisive, no-middle-ground bullshit that it all comes down to either being an ally or not.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

76. What person has told you they are LGBTQA...

Answer: No one. They might say I’m gay, queer, trans, ace… but no one would ever say I’m LGBTQA…
But keep up reasons why you can’t respect someone’s identity, because that’s an incredibly big-D Democratic thing to do.

[Silent3]

80. Where in my post did I say anything about not respecting any particular person's identity?

The topic of this thread, as I see it, is the absurdity of comically cumbersome umbrella terminology like "LGBTQIA2S+".

You, on the other hand, seem to be looking for any chance you can get to climb on a high horse and find people you can denounce as insufficient in their ally-ship.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

82. It's sad that a string of letters is so triggering for you

It’s so cumbersome to respect peoples identities.

[Ms. Toad]

45. self-labeling.

Initially the "umbrella" term was gay, until lesbians fought to be expressly included. In most LGBTQIA groups, each new group has been named because they expressly asked to be named - and it has often taken years of struggle to be recognized.

[Tree-Hugger]

47. +1 nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

51. The thing is, everyone in such a large grouping is also identifying "other people"

So it's hard to say this is a term for "how I prefer to be identified". It's more "here's my term for an inclusive group that faces similar attitudes".

This appears to be the first time "LGBTQIA2S+" has been used on DU. The "2S" part, "two-spirit", is specifically American Indian, and thus uses something other countries are likely to go "huh?" at. A term that confuses is not very useful.

[XorXor]

118. Everyone has some line somewhere

I am sure you do too. These kids today have their neopronouns in which they identify as stuff like kittenself. Which is fine if they want to do that, but I'm not going to do that. This might sound some fake bs made up by the right-wing, but sadly it's not totally made up. I don't think it's a major thing now, but it does seem to have a fair number of people who support those. Perhaps you're one, perhaps not. But anyway, the point is that what was progressive now won't be fully progressive in the future. Not everyone will move at the same speed or be willing to move past a certain point... At least not without some compelling arguments for why they are thinking about it wrong

[David__77]

33. They invite more than right-wing mockery.

Unfortunately.

That said, the important thing is to support human liberation including for all those groups.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

43. Bigots don't like it!

Guess I better not offend the bigots, they might get offended!

[Tree-Hugger]

52. +1 nt

[Silent3]

78. It's not about appeasing bigots, it's about not giving bigots an opportunity to sound reasonable

If a lot of people begin to insist that we throw out the already-cumbersome "LGBT" and replace it, at every possible utterance, with "LGBTQIA2S+", the bigots, wrong about practically everything else, will have a valid point about how absurd things are getting if you have to say "LGBTQIA2S+" all of the time to demonstrate your ally-ship and human sensitivity.

This gives people who don't even want to be bothered with "LGBT" terminology to laugh the whole thing off, and give up on any effort at inclusiveness at all.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

79. So LGBT is cumbersome as well?

Okay…

[Silent3]

81. It's about at the limit

It certainly doesn't roll off the tongue, and I sure wish there was a better term. I do use the term LGBT, but please, don't expect me (or many other people) to keep going along with adding on even more letters, digits, punctuation marks, emoji, tongue-clicks, hand gestures, etc.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

85. I've spent almost 50 years not having any problem

Not sure why it is so difficult for you to respect peoples gender identity without mocking letters, digits, punctuation marks, emojis, tongue clicks, hand gestures etc.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

87. And you seem to really enjoy telling people you don't respect their gender identities

Because there’s too many letters and it gives bigots power.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

90. So why do you care then?

If you respect people why are you upset At an acronym. Why did you have to come here and weigh in about how it’s giving bigots power. And attack others for disagreeing with you.

[yardwork]

89. So, maybe try to see that "we gay folk" aren't imposing this.

Right here in this thread you have numerous posters, self-identified as non-heterosexual, agreeing that this is getting cumbersome and potentially problematic.

What's frustrating is the assumption among some straight posters that this is some kind of organized decision or demand from "the gay community" - whatever that is.

The reason the acronym is growing is because smaller minorities are asking to be identified. This is happening in the context of deep, sustained oppression from one of two political parties in the U.S. Books mentioning gay people are being banned from libraries. Trans people are being lied about and attacked. It's life and death for some people - for real.

I think all Democrats can understand the desire to be recognized while at the same time, maybe saying this isn't the ideal approach.

[dsp3000]

123. This, exactly this. To many who aren't necessarily bigoted but don't pay much attention

it becomes almost a parody. There are alot of people who support LGBT+ rights but these abbreviations are getting out of hand and play into the right wing mockery of all that decent people would otherwise support.

[bullimiami]

19. its truly gone well past foolish. revert to lgb. everyone knows what it means.

i dont think every individual identity needs its own letter in the acronym.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

23. Just an FYI

LGB is used by transphobes pretty extensively online. It is a slur.

[David__77]

31. Yeah that term is no good.

It’s still based on same approach except clearly aimed at its actual political purpose.

[bullimiami]

38. Just because some a-holes subverted the acronym doesnt turn it into a slur universally.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

41. Try telling a trans person you support LGB rights

I’m sure they’ll appreciate it.

[Tree-Hugger]

54. +1 nt

[bullimiami]

95. Oh gosh. Add the T oh the Qs are offended add a ... That's how we got to this foolishness.

[yardwork]

97. That's nonsense. I've never heard that anybody but bigots are offended.

It's been LGBT, at least, for decades. The only reason to remove the T at this point is to pick on transgender people. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. No more. You've been told why this is offensive and now you're accusing gay people of being offensive.

[Oneironaut]

105. LGB does not include trans people. We are not a sexuality.

[yardwork]

65. Leaving T for transgender off an acronym that hast been LGBT for decades is a slur.

Using LGB instead of LGBT is a deliberate act of exclusion, after decades of LGBT being standard usage.

Watch out for transphobia. It's in right now.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

77. Every few weeks we get a stern post and lock from EarlG

But they still keep coming back…

[vercetti2021]

91. Reason I stopped posting

I've been silenced here. I'm coming out of lurker mode. But this poster is just one of the reasons I don't feel welcome here. Trans people are fun to hate. Fun to demonize. We aren't considered humans by anyone it seems. They don't get how hard it is to want to be who you want and be stung up for it. I wish this place was friendly to us. But this is another example of I do not belong on DU anymore.

[Tree-Hugger]

100. .....

[Dorian Gray]

133. I'm sorry you feel alienated

I am happy to see that poster is getting almost UNIVERSAL PUSHBACK.

[Tree-Hugger]

99. Transphobia

Transphobia has been very hot here on DU. Transphobic posts are routinely surviving alerts/juries. Trans people advocating for themselves have had posts hidden while transphobic posts remain. No matter how many " no transphobia" admin posts we see, it still keeps happening. Homophobia is right behind it, too. It's sad for a progressive site. Valuable members of this site have stopped posting because they no longer wish to do so.

As you have notes, LGB, is a deliberate usage among transphobes.

[vercetti2021]

114. What's old is hot again

I'm not posting further than this thread. Not gonna risk it. I enjoy a lot of posts here. But I'm tired of the transphobia constantly. Reason I stopped posting. But I couldn't help it this time. I'm tired and tired of trying to defend myself only.to get silenced. Well I'll stay silent then.

[Behind the Aegis]

69. In the minds of some it does.

I don't think it is a slur either but can be used as one, of course. Know what else is in the same category? QUEER!

[Tree-Hugger]

50. No

LGB is a transphobia dog whistle. They remove the "T" to make a point.

[obamanut2012]

59. Lgb is a RW slur

So stop.

[yardwork]

66. It certainly is.

[vercetti2021]

93. We don't matter

It's ok I know being trans is a crime against humanity. I had to come out of lurker mode. But I know I don't matter. I see it a lot now that my life isn't worth anything to anyone

[Oneironaut]

106. I love it when "allies" explain over you what your community should call itself.

They sound like the “I know I’m white, but, racism doesn’t exist because I’ve never seen it” people.

[vercetti2021]

113. Yeah

Feels that way alot. Like hey I'm cool with gays and all. But trannies? Na yall don't matter. And honestly the more I feel I don't matter. Only my girlfriend and some family cares. The rest? Na just drop dead we won't care. Just wanna mind my own business without people labeling me for trying to live life

[Dorian Gray]

134. Your life

is valuable and important. It's worth a lot to me, and I hope you know that. I am sorry that you're feeling devalued. That poster is wrong to insist upon their point.

[vercetti2021]

92. Nice to know I don't matter

Appreciate it

[Tree-Hugger]

102. You matter

Your life has meaning. You matter.

[vercetti2021]

103. I wish I could believe that

But every day now I see more and more people hate me for trying to be who I am. Tired of it. Just so tired.

[Tree-Hugger]

110. I know

Your feelings are valid. I know these hateful words are thrown at you at a daily basis from community, media, government, and peers. It's honestly not fair.

[vercetti2021]

115. If I didn't have my girlfriend

I think i would have killed myself by now. 3rd times the charm on attempting. Maybe I'd get it right this time

[electric_blue68]

127. Try not to think this way (not easy), let alone go there!...

You've part of DU a long time. You've got your girlfriend and other who care about you.


Living as well as you can is the best revenge on the bigots. Imho.

[vercetti2021]

130. DU doesn't want me

And living just to smite people? Honestly I'd rather end my pain than live to make others miserable.

[Oneironaut]

137. (Hugs)

This is quite honestly a miserable place for mental health sometimes. I’m waiting for the “Why not just identify as a helicopter!” joke to be dropped here, tbh. It’s jarring to see our gender identity attacked everywhere else, then, to see it here too, on a supposedly accepting message board.

The world needs you in it. There are people who aren’t completely clueless who are supportive - I’ve found them. The only problem is, they aren’t here.

[vercetti2021]

141. I've seen that before

Rather jump into the blades at this point

[Oneironaut]

142. .

[electric_blue68]

147. 🤔 Living life in ways that are good for you is the intentional, active...

part of yourself.

The revenge & smiting part is not a intentional action by you - it will upset some people who have bigoted views so it appears like you are deliberatly being "provocitive" when you aren't.


You deserve to be safe, and have as much happiness as you can find/get. Right now you (imho) need to access sine of the free services suggested - so you can diminish your pain, even be free of it at times. Then eing free of it at times is like training a mental & emotional muscle. It could happen more & more, too.

The best you can do concentrate on the people who care for you, concentrate on the people, places, things you love to get out of your current zone of despair at times. And find more support.

[Dorian Gray]

135. Do you have access to mental health

resources? Is there something we can do to help? It sounds like you're carrying the burden of other people's hatred, weaknesses and short-comings, and I'm so sorry they put that burden on your shoulders. Your life matters immensely. You are important to this world and DU. Your voice and life matters immensely.

[vercetti2021]

140. No

Can't afford it and when I had it before I put myself into immense credit card debt

[Dorian Gray]

143. I am sorry you feel like there isn't an option for you

for help in that regard. There are free resources, but they probably aren't as immediate or in depth as would be helpful for you. But if you feel like you are in crisis, you can text or call 988 on your cell. They are a helpline/free resource and they will be there to immediately chat. And they may be able to point you in the direction of resources closer to home for you.

https://988lifeline.org

You can also text or call 741741, which is another hotline.

And, of course, the Trevor Project is an invaluable resource. 1-866-488-7386 or text “START” to 678678.

And finally (ONE MORE) there is the Trans Lifeline. Call 877-565-8860

I am not equipped to give support in this capacity, but I do want you to know that your life is important and you deserve love and help.

[vercetti2021]

144. Thank you

I wanted to believe transitioning was the ultimate goal for my happiness and to escape my pain. Just ended up finding more of it

[Dorian Gray]

132. LGB?

Like Let's Go Brandon?

There's a reason right wingers are using those three letters of the acronym so readily, and it's not out of respect for Lesbian, Gay or Bisexual people.

[Iggo]

22. Trashing the hell out of this thread.

Jeezus fucking. kryst.

[sanatanadharma]

30. New word for those who are self-defined as not you

"Not-thee"
There is great diversity in not-thee.

However, by any name or label, we are all me and I.

[David__77]

32. I prefer "sexual minorities."

Something simple like that. I’m gay and get that “gay” may be understood to mean gay men and women or perhaps just gay men.

I think the term to refer to those not fitting into traditional sexual orientation or gender roles should be a simple one readily understood.

[leftstreet]

39. +1

[Oneironaut]

107. Trans people are not a sexuality.

[David__77]

119. Sex doesn't just mean sexual activity.

…

[leftstreet]

129. The poster included "orientation" n/t

[Oneironaut]

136. "Orientation" means sexual orientation to me.

“Doesn’t fit into gender roles” sounds like someone who still identifies with their sex assigned at birth. The term erases trans people completely.

[Disaffected]

35. Honest question:

Why is "queer" (Q) included in the abbreviation? Maybe I don't understand the nuances but isn't it redundant to the others?

AFAIK it means simply not heterosexual.

[David__77]

36. I believe it may also refer to "gender queer."

Which I think may refer to those who don’t have or aspire to have the gender identity conventionally associated with males or females.

[Tommy Carcetti]

40. I thought it meant "questioning"

As in people who were unsure of their orientation or identity.

As for “queer,” speaking strictly as someone who is straight and not in any of those other acronym categories, it just seems like an awful term to use go given its original meaning as “odd” or “strange.”

I know there is a desire for some to want to re-appropriate formerly derogatory terms, but I honestly would think there has to be a better way. Just my two cents.

[Ms. Toad]

49. Many older members of the community find Queer offensive.

Many younger ones embrace it. The thing which tipped an organization I'm part of toward including it was the statement of a (then) 60+ year old straight wife of a gay man, who declared that if she wasn't queer, she didn't know who was. Including her in our name (since she was an integral part of our group, and more than just an ally) was more important than those of us who stll feel the sting of being called queer as an insult.

[Tree-Hugger]

53. That reappropriation happened long ago

I remember the word being used in the 90's, but I just did a google and it looks as if "queer" was being taken back in the 80's. I already posted this elsewhere in the thread so I apologize if it's redundant. The term is heavily in use among younger members of the community. As I said, folks were using it when I was a teen in the 90's, but it's even more common in the younger Millennial, the Gen Z set and even the oldest gen alphas (no clue what that generation will be called). My 11 year old has peers who use the term to identify themselves. Those in the younger set have also begun to champion the use of the word "unlabelled" as well. Queer looks as if it's a term that is here to stay at this moment.

[Tree-Hugger]

55. It means...

The Q stands for both Queer and Questioning.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

56. Waiting for the "Why not two Qs then? It's so confusing I don't know what to call people!"

[Tree-Hugger]

57. LOL

Give it a minute.

This thread has been something, hasn't it?

[Disaffected]

63. Thanks all for the comments.

So, it looks like the Q may stand for queer or questioning. Of the two, "questioning" seems the most logical to me (at least it removes the redundancy objection, I think).

If it stands for "queer", I guess I'm still a bit in the dark as there seems to be no consensus about it.

Crap, why to we have to label people anyhow?

[Sympthsical]

72. It was initially Questioning

In the earliest incarnation. Then it slid into Queer as a catch all, but that has always been contentious. Plenty of people do not want to co-opt a slur or refer to themselves or the community by it. Plus, it did not catch all, as we're still adding and adding and adding.

This thread is entertaining. The LGBT community has this conversation amongst ourselves all the time. Ask five of us about all this, the letters, the flag, etc., and prepare to get eight different opinions.

I know a lot of straight people (even allies) think there was some committee meeting where we all decided on this stuff, but no.

One of the more recent internal battles has been whether orientation and gender should be separated. With all the different genders, permutations, self-labels, and distinctions, there's an increasing sense among (generally older, but not always) nonGenZ LGBTers that the movement has evolved into something that has less to do with them or their lives.

It's a conversation that's constantly ongoing. (Not here, as I guarantee only one idea/interpretation would ever be allowed). But it's constant within the community.

As someone who is not very far away from not only telling people to get off my lawn, but installing an electric fence to ensure it, I've kind of tapped out of a lot of the debate. I just . . . don't care. I'm in my 40s. I haven't given my identity thought in years. My life is just too many other things to get into these intramural internecine bickerings. Like watching a theater troupe where everyone's vice-president.

I'm a gay man. The rest of y'all do whatever. I'ma have a wine cooler while people attack each other over posters.

[Disaffected]

96. Thank you for the interesting comments.

I guess my philosophy on the topic is nothing new or profound but, Live and Let Live. And don't worry about names or labels....

[Tree-Hugger]

109. The younger folk

The younger folk have been advocating for being "unlabelled." I think we'll hear/read more about people being unlabelled and telling y'all that no one is owed an explanation about someone else's sexuality in the coming decade. I don't see those convos as much within my own age group, but the Gen Z folks will fight hard for someone's right to be unlabelled. They will fight hard for you if want to just say "gay" or "queer" or "LGBTQIA2S+" or "unlabelled" or anything else. They are pretty good about that and switching between labels or none at all is not a big deal to them.

As to why label anyway.....in the year of "Don't say gay," laws, I am all for anyone who wants to proudly wave whatever flag or use whatever label, even if it's 72 letters long.

[48656c6c6f20]

61. It's cool with me

I'm a wmbimbnlicsh

[lame54]

70. People

[sir pball]

75. It's missing at least another A and a P

Aromantic and Pansexual aren't in there.

I think would be simpler to simply use "Non-het" or somesuch, merely because a 15-letter acronym is rather unwieldy. But, as a het, I don't really have a horse in the race so that's just like, my opinion, man.

[Tree-Hugger]

112. That leaves out

...the trans community. Many trans folks identify as heterosexual. Trans is not a sexuality.

[Dysfunctional]

94. Personally, I don't identify anyone as anything. People are just people.

[meadowlander]

128. You're lucky you have the privilege to see things that way.

But people are different from each other and the ways they are different matter. By refusing to acknowledge that, you conveniently erase your privilege and ignore the important disadvantages and struggles that people that are not in the majority face.

[Dysfunctional]

145. I know people who are of different colors, different religions, different sexual orientations.

I know people who are poor and people who aren't poor. I do not have a religion, but I believe in a supreme being. I don't know if Jesus really existed, but I try to live my life according to Matthew 25: 35-36. The only reason to live is to help others.

[XorXor]

116. Was this in the context of something Canadian related?

Whenever I see the 2S part, it's always been from something in Canada. I believe that means two spirit. I don't recall exactly what that means, though. I'm sure Google knows.

[jmowreader]

126. I looked it up. Oh my.

Eventually we should just lump the whole thing and use EE - everyone else.

[Bluesaph]

131. My son is gay

And I love him and would never want to hurt him Or offend him.

But the long list is too long.

Why can’t we just come up with a single word?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

146. You mean like "Gay"?

If your son is gay, why call him anything else?

[egduj]

148. I don't know.

But I am going to remember this the next time I play Scrabble.