Fentanyl is real and what you hear is true!

[Tickle]

I feel compelled to write this because I've read some posts here on DU that deny this is happening.

I am a mother who has lost a child to fentanyl poisoning. Every year on August 31, CT host an overdose awareness day at the state capital. I have been involved with this group since 2019. We are losing 274 young people a day to Fentanyl and that's a fact.

In 2019 when I got my phone call from Hartford police in regards to my son John it changed my life.
I got connected with a man named John Lally, he had lost his son in 2016 to fentanyl poisoning. John created a support group of "Today I Matter," after his son TiM. He coordinates CT overdose awareness day on August 31. (he travels around the country)

This past year on overdose awareness day John was invited to Washington DC to meet with Doulas Emhoff, our second gentleman and Dr. Rahul Gupta the director of national drug control to discuss Fentanyl deaths and fentanyl coming over the border. (it has been coming over for many many years). Our goal is to make Fentanyl a weapon of mass destruction. My Granddaughter comes with me to the capital every year and this year she got educated on rainbow fentanyl and she's 10.

I can't for the life of me understand how this became a political issue but I need help in making it stop. I'm reaching out to DU today to ask that you please stop joking about it. Rainbow Fentanyl is real and we just had a bust here in Hartford with rainbow fentanyl being transported in skittles bags and nerd boxes of candy. Now I know Halloween is coming and the fears of fentanyl being given out is no greater than the razor blade in the apple thing.

The new fentanyl called "carfentanil" is more powerful than regular fentanyl. ODs from carfentanil need multiple narcans because it's that strong. I've had people come into detox who were narcanned 4 or 5 times. When we do the drug test on them, there's cocaine and multiple drugs in their body. When we ask them about it they swear they only did "fetti". Point being the makers don't care about cross contamination of other drugs.

It's only getting attention now because recreational users are dying from Fentanyl. They could be a college student wanting to stay up to study for exams and they buy adderall. It has the correct markings of adderall so one would think it's a real adderall but it is not. It's the same with percocets and even pot has been found laced with fentanyl.

You can google everything I have typed here if you don't believe me and you will see it's real. With that said I can't be the only DU person who's had someone die of fentanyl, it's that rampant.

Thank you to those who read this.

[Elessar Zappa]

1. My friend's daughter died of fentanyl overdose last year.

It’s a nasty drug that should only be used in late stage cancer, imo. I’m so sorry you lost your son to this drug.

[Tickle]

3. thank you but

I started the thread to make others aware and to try and stop some of the jokes.

I don't think it worked. I do thank you for your thought on my son

[Elessar Zappa]

4. I understand.

It’s a serious issue.

[bluecollar2]

146. Having just finished reading through the responses

I agree with you.

I'm sorry for your loss.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. I am sorry for the grief you have endured.

There is absolutely an opioid problem in this country. What people generally push back on is the copaganda and lazy media coverage that draws lines from "colorful pills" and "smuggled in candy boxes" to "targeting children" and "no one is safe," as well as the ridiculous stories about cops having panic attacks because they touched a powder. Hysteria only clouds the issue.

[Tickle]

7. My son is a CO

yes, I had sons on both sides of the bars. It made for interesting holidays

My son the CO does property at the CT Jail and they had to narcan a couple of COs when taking the property of the person being jailed. It's that potent

[RAB910]

8. that is a proven myth. You can't absorb enough via the skin or in the air to OD

[Tickle]

9. you are wrong nt

[RAB910]

14. NO! no I am absolutely not wrong. FACTS matter and misinformation is dangerous

Recent media reports have highlighted stories of exposure to a white powdery substance assumed to be fentanyl and the wide variety of adverse medical reactions that followed. While these stories are disturbing, it is important for everyone involved to separate fact from fiction when talking about fentanyl exposure to avoid unnecessary confusion and panic.

Illicit fentanyl cannot be absorbed through the skin or by touching an item or surface where it is present. When in powder form, fentanyl and its analogs (including carfentanil and fluorofentanyl) cannot be absorbed through the skin. Dissolving the powder in a liquid does not change this property. Wet objects do not pose an increased risk for an overdose caused by casual exposure.

“It’s so important to separate fact from fiction when it comes to fentanyl because Tennesseans are dying of overdose by the thousands. It is our hope that these facts will help people who are struggling with opioid use reach to treatment if they need it and find a new life in recovery,” said TDMHSAS Commissioner Marie Williams, LCSW.

https://www.tn.gov/behavioral-health/news/2022/8/24/state-departments-issue-guidance-around-fentanyl-exposure-.html#:~:text=Illicit%20fentanyl%20cannot%20be%20absorbed,does%20not%20change%20this%20property.

OR


This has come to more attention since the CDC recently removed a video from the NIOSH site that it says "mischaracterizes" the dangers of fentanyl exposure for police and first responders. There are many such videos of police officers quickly showing overt symptoms or even collapsing after exposure to minute quantities of fentanyl - or even just possible fentanyl - and these are just not pharmacologically possible. Fentanyl is not absorbed through the skin like this. Yes, there are indeed fentanyl skin patches for hospital pain relief, but these are formulated with other agents to make the skin more permeable under the patch (as are all such skin-patch dosage forms). Think about it: you do not see opioid addicts rubbing small bits of fentanyl on the backs of their hands for a quick hit. But this hysteria - which is what to call it - has spread to the point that random people are fainting when they think they've been exposed by (for example) picking up money off the floor.

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/fainting-fentanyl-exposure-nope

[Tickle]

23. ok, this is what happened

you can decide how it happened . Two COs had to be narcanned while going through property of the person being jailed.

It happened it's a fact. If you want to argue how they ingested the drug argue with someone else.

I'm just trying to make others aware. Don't pick a piece of what I said and turn it into something else

[RAB910]

29. first responders and others have had panic and anxiety attacks or their ailments were psychosomatic

they are hardly the first two to succumb to the hysteria created by the misinformation

[Disaffected]

40. I know this is a difficult thing to talk about but

do you have some official documentation on what happened to those two COs or are we simply dealing here with anecdotal evidence?

[Tickle]

43. I don't and this was almost a year

ago. My son had come over and he was upset and he told me. I can't imagine he would lie about it but I don't want this thread to be about the CO story.

[RAB910]

58. he is not lying, he is simply wrong

Researchers who study reported overdoses from fentanyl exposure among emergency responders have explained that cases documented thus far can best be attributed to the “nocebo effect”—a phenomenon in which individuals believe they have encountered a toxic substance and therefore experience the expected symptoms of exposure

https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-020-00402-2

[Tickle]

60. thanks for the article

I'm printing it now

[Maraya1969]

127. The problem I have with people ODing from Fentanyl just on their skin is that is the way

it is delivered. I was given Fentanyl patches. I've heard of people taking the patches and licking them and ODing but never jut from the patch.

Perhaps more information is needed. IDK

[Jirel]

67. I'm sure it really happened, though RAB910 is correct on the science.

Neither has to be wrong here. The science is clear - Fentanyl is not absorbed through the skin. However, people having exposure and then ingesting it? That is certainly possible. All you need are cops handling evidence, then eating, drinking, smoking a cigarette, whatever, before washing their hands. These were precautions taught to us with much less toxic substances in making stained glass and dealing with chemicals in pottery glaze.

There ARE a lot of cops and first responders freaking out and having psychosomatic symptoms also. That could have happened to the COs, and they may have been Narcanned without needing it. Or, they may have actually been terribly careless and ingested enough to cause a dangerous situation for them.

[NickB79]

121. Handle fentanyl and chew your nails

As a nail biter myself, I'd be screwed.

Could explain a few episodes of exposure.

[fescuerescue]

135. The COs probably took a hit of it.

Not realizing it was that strong.

I had an uncle that ran a county jail. I know what goes on.

[Ligyron]

141. What I was thinking.

I've know cops who like to imbibe now and then.

[kooth]

64. Fact again!

You are so right!

[obamanut2012]

19. No, the poster is correct

[NNadir]

32. I have seen pharmacokinetic data on patch formulations.

We are talking about concentrations of 2 pg/ml as a physiological concentration.

I think you should rethink your sources.

[Tickle]

34. ok I will

can we put the CO thing aside. I apologize for it. I'm just trying to make others aware of the dangers. I don't even know what pharmacokinetic data is but I believe you.

[Lettuce Be]

44. Doctor told us to be very careful with packaging for patches as child could die

if they touched the wrapping, so yeah, I think your statement that it cannot be absorbed via the skin is wrong. They said if you have children or even pets that may get in the garbage, do not throw the packaging or the strip you remove from the patch in the garbage loose. It is deadly.

[Tickle]

54. thank you

and I believe you. Awareness and education is a good start in beating this

[RAB910]

57. not exactly

Concerns about fentanyl exposure continue to spread despite a clear consensus from medical experts that overdose from incidental skin contact is a medical impossibility [14, 15]. Indeed, this claim has been officially debunked by the American College of Medical Toxicology and the American Academy of Clinical Toxicology [16] and the National Occupational Safety and Health with the CDC [26]. A drug policy advocate has also disproven this myth by holding fentanyl powder in his hand without consequence and widely circulating the internet footage [15]. Researchers who study reported overdoses from fentanyl exposure among emergency responders have explained that cases documented thus far can best be attributed to the “nocebo effect”—a phenomenon in which individuals believe they have encountered a toxic substance and therefore experience the expected symptoms of exposure [27]. This is consistent with our broader understanding of occupational wellness and mental health—or lack thereof—among first responders [28]. When individuals are already operating under acute stress and with few mental health reserves, fear of overdose from touching fentanyl could serve as an additional stressor.

https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-020-00402-2

[Ligyron]

145. Thank you so very much.

The hysteria over fentanyl and it's analogs is a bit overblown, imho. Sure it can be dangerous especially as a street drug because it is quite powerful and as in the sad case with the OP, lives can be ruined and families devastated by one single mistake.

Nurses turned me onto it's use over 30 years ago as it took so little to be effective and it had a certain anesthetic property to it users liked. "Blows morphine away, dude", was a frequent comment. Plus, being as strong as it was a "misplaced" bottle could go a long way.

Now they watch that type of thing a whole lot better than they did back then.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

63. First off, Rx fentanyl patches are specifically formulated with gels to make the drug absorb

the skin, and the packaging will contain traces of the compounds that are used to facilitate this process. And that absorption still happens VERY slowly. Like 72 hours.

2ndly, children are not adults, nor is this outcome remotely likely. It's an 'abundance of caution' situation. The USED PATCHES on the other hand, of course can be dangerous.

3rdly, in virtually no case is the 'recovery of evidence' going to involve a large tranche of Rx Fentanyl Patch Wrappers.

The idea that a 250lb grown man police officer is going absorb enough from the wrappers of fentanyl patches while going through some prisoners belongings is nonsense.

Fentanyl in the criminal world will be powder, or pills.

Neither of which absorb through skin.

You wouldn't wanna plunge a knife into a kilo of pure fentanyl, put your nose over it and inhale the dust into your mucous membranes, but that's about the only likely scenario to cause a grown adult cop to take in enough fentanyl to harm themselves.

[ProfessorGAC]

102. +1

Perfectly stated, Hugh.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

103. Much obliged, Prof

[NNadir]

128. The mean fatal blood concentration of fentanyl is 10 nanograms per ml.

Forensic Sci Res. 2019; 4(2): 95–110.

A nanogram is a billionth of a gram. The Cmax in therapeutic settings is on the order of 2 nanograms per ml.

You may be seriously underestimating the potency of the compound. It's extremely potent.

Fentanyl is not quite as potent as LSD, for one example, but it is an unusually potent compound; a pharmaceutical patch usually contains about 400 micrograms of active.

These drugs are often synthesized in backyard laboratories. It's not like they undergo what we routinely do with APIs and formulations, residual solvent testing. The drug, in addition, is fairly hydrophobic, with a log Kow of 3.4.

Many transdermals use DMSO as a carrier, but it is certainly not the only carrier than can cause skin permeability. I have never synthesized fentanyl, but looking at the structure, it does seem probable that a key intermediate might be (2-chloroethyl)benzene which is closer to gasoline than it is to water.

For transdermal transport, a molecule must be able to diffuse through a hydrophobic layer consisting of ceramides, sphingolipids, fatty acids, and cholesterol.

Ethylbenzene is a compound closely related to (2-chloroethyl)benzene and it has about the same skin absorption properties as DMSO:

Molecular Dynamics Simulation Study of Permeation of Molecules through Skin Lipid Bilayer Rakesh Gupta, D. B. Sridhar, and Beena Rai, The Journal of Physical Chemistry B 2016 120 (34), 8987-8996

To see an example of how the drug is formulated for transdermal absorption, I referred to this paper: P. Santos, A.C. Watkinson, J. Hadgraft, M.E. Lane, Formulation issues associated with transdermal fentanyl delivery, International Journal of Pharmaceutics, Volume 416, Issue 1, 2011, Pages 155-159.

This formulation utilized in IVRT (in vitro release testing) using Franz cells was very simple, propylene glycol and water. There are soaps and hand creams with similar formulations. The references in the paper also refer to the use of silicone oils, often a constituent of cosmetic hand creams.

I question whether your dismissal of the risk is justified. It seems reasonable to me that it is not.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

129. I'm well aware of the relative potency of fentanyl NNadir.

If you look through my comments on this thread you'll find I point out that fact in a few different places.

However, cops routinely wear rubber gloves when going through belongings where anything hazardous may be in play in the contents. That also avoids fingerprint contamination.

I'm not gonna sit here and say there's no possibility of danger in physically handling the stuff under any circumstances, but real trouble would require special circumstances, including a hefty dose of what I'd call negligence, the intersection of which I'd say is unlikely in the real world.

Maybe it's happened a handful times in the US that someone in LE inadvertently got a active dose of fentanyl in their duties, I'd buy that due to the potency of the drug. But I don't buy it's a serious problem because in the illicit trade, it's found in powder and pill form, and the cops almost always know they're involved in a 'drug bust' and would likely take precautions, and those forms are unlikely to be absorbed thru skin, especially not rapidly ... your 'hand cream' hypothesis would involve the cop neither wearing gloves, nor even washing up after going thru evidence in an opioid bust.

The fact that its produced illegally and is of unknown concentration does not really speak to your point, because the studies you're citing are going to based on the Rx-grade 'stuff', are they not?

The backyard stuff is going to be LESS potent in the vast majority of cases, and almost certainly never MORE pure.

The biggest problem with that drug, apart from making properly measured doses of it in an illicit environment, without proper lab-grade equipment?

It's that 'the high' is for shit compared to opiates and semi-synthetic opioids like oxydocone, yet the respiratory depressant effect remains profound. People are dying because the ratio of 'high' to 'dangerous respiratory depression' is terribly low with Fentanyl, leading to dangerous re-dosing.

[NNadir]

131. You are assuming that illicitly manufactured stuff is safer than legally manufactured stuff.

This isn't even remotely true.

What I am saying is quite the opposite.

I know from direct experience the amount of testing that goes into the manufacture of active pharmaceutical ingredients. Back up labs don't have mass specs costing half a million dollars each.

I've stood next to chemical reactors three stories tall filled with extremely hazardous compounds and felt completely safe.

On the other side of the coin, I'm sure that at least some of the fentanyl overdoses take place among people operating illicit drug labs, transporting the product, or just exposure to the product without their knowledge or consent.

As I see it, you are sitting here and saying there's no danger in physically handling the stuff.

As for rubber gloves, many, many, many years ago I was involved in a study to show that wearing gloves did not protect oncology nurses and certain types of physicians from exhibiting higher incidences of cancer because 5-FU, admittedly not fentanyl, leached right through surgical gloves. It is well known that oncology nurses and physicians have higher rates of cancer, in particular urinary cancer, and this is the reason. Not all PPE is effective.

You are also assuming that people confronting potentially criminal substance issues always take or even have the time to put on PPE and wear hazmat suits, this in often hostile situations.

I have toured laboratories handling highly potent compounds - usually looking through the glass of these negative pressure isolation rooms - I very much doubt that people in any walks of life can manage the expense to do this.

I am quite sure that a number of people, including but certainly not limited to law enforcement types, have been injured or killed by unintentional exposure to illegal fentanyl, just as patients can be killed by legal fentanyl.

I'm not claiming that I have statistics on this, but I'm not sure in any case that the circumstances of every fentanyl overdose is fully investigated - given the volume of deaths, authorities may assume that deaths always involve abuse as opposed to unintentional exposure - I'm just saying your dismissal of the issue strikes me as overly glib.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

134. I didn't mean 'safer' I meant 'less pure'. Less pure means less dangerous to handle generally

I mean I suppose there could be some toxic contaminant but then we're not talking about Fentanyl itself anymore, are we?

There was a specific instance/context I was speaking to here in this thread, that was someone in US Law Enforcement processing a suspect's belongings (presumably as evidence). And specifically the case where the dangerous exposure happened through absorption through the skin.

Your argument is broadening this specific scenario I was speaking about to ALL scenarios, when I did not mean it that way. YES there are absolutely all kinds OTHER ways of incidental exposure that could be dangerous, esp. working in an underground fentanyl lab for example. Or a DEA bust in a Fentanyl lab that goes down in a way that resembles an action movie.

I was specifically referring to the claim that because it's rec'd that Rx fentanyl patch wrappers are kept away from children because the residue therein could absorbed through a child's skin ... that proves that fentanyl can be absorbed through skin. It CAN, but only via certain substrates does it happen with any semblance of proficiency.

When fentanyl is recovered in the scenario actually described upthread (cop going through suspect belongings, not a hostile situation) there a whole bunch of reasons why it's very unlikely the cop is going to get exposed to a dangerous dose.

Reasons:
1) They're likely to wear gloves
2) If not, they're likely to wash up if they suddenly find some unknown powder on their skin while going through belongings. No matter what, fentanyl absorbs slowly.
3) The average cop isn't likely keeping their hands freshly moisturized with a chemical that conveniently makes for a good substrate to transfer Fentanyl across the skin.
4) They're VASTLY more likely to be dealing with street-level product, i.e. pressed pills or 'heroin', not a leaking package of 90% fentanyl. Street products are diluting the fentanyl to make the product resemble what street users are accustomed to. Of course there's dosing mistakes made but they're along the lines of making the pill be .2% fentanyl instead of .1% fentanyl (spit-balling there, but you get the gist). You're no more likely to OD handling some pressed M-30's with fentanyl than you would be handling a real 30mg Oxycodone. Which is to say ... it's extremely unlikely.
5) If a suspect was walking around with 90% pure fentanyl, chances are the cops already know s/he's closely tied to a manufacturing operation, so they're likely to be more careful processing his/her belongings.

As we know, probability of an event is a multiplication of the probability of subevents leading up to it, like P*P*P*P*P in the above case. You multiply all those probabilities 1-5 (where nothing went as I outlined) and you end up with an extremely uncommon/unlikely sequence of events.

I was referring to a specific scenario and argument being made, not EVERY possible case in the ENTIRE world.

Fair enough?

[DoUListenWhenUHear]

144. Regarding your Reason #3

3) The average cop isn't likely keeping their hands freshly moisturized with a chemical that conveniently makes for a good substrate to transfer Fentanyl across the skin.

Not sure where you got this information, but I know personally that a lot of the police in our community have big bottles of hand sanitizer that they use almost religiously after every call they were on. And alcohol is great from absorption which is why the CDC does not recommend using it when exposed to drugs like Fentanyl.

I know that police here have found when Fentanyl is involved in overdoses, they are having to administer multiple dosages of Naloxone treatments to revive the person. Locally, departments have seen officers needing 10 or more dosages to counteract the Fentanyl in heroin overdoses.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

147. You ARE familiar with the way alcohol quickly evaporates, yes?

You think the person at the evidence room is like 'well I'm about to rifle through this suspects belongings, I better put on hand sanitizer right before I START!'

They might think of it AFTER, but it's less likely they do it immediately before. And if, as you say, the police are advised to not use it if exposed to fentanyl on their hand ... that is actually just another reason why it's UNLIKELY to actually occur.

The totality of the sequence of probabilities I outlined, with each one being a point of failure towards OD-level exposure ... is VERY low.

Lastly, the number of doses of naloxone needed in fentanyl OD's is not relevant to the equation here, because my overall premise is that a cop going through a suspects belongings is not likely to be exposed to large doses in the first place.

[kooth]

62. A fact ...

You are right!

[forgotmylogin]

72. Be VERY CAREFUL with fentanyl patches.

My mom's pain doctor warned me not to let them touch my skin. There have been reports of people throwing away used patches and kids or pets or people working with trash getting them stuck on their skin without realizing which can be bad news. They recommend wrapping them with tape after use to avoid disposal accidents.

Fentanyl is only for people who are well-tolerant with taking strong amounts of opioid painkillers, and it can put a non-tolerant person (especially small children or pets) into a coma, depress their respiration, or worse.

[LeftInTX]

90. There is also the possibility that people toss unused or barely used patches!

I was put on methadone for pain.

OMG..that stuff was awful for me!
It kinda made me crazy!

Took about 10 pills and have no idea what I did with the rest of the bottle.
I got rid of it.

My friend took it (she was the one who recommended it) and asked, "Why didn't you give it to me?".


I don't remember what I did with that bottle????

This was about 20 years ago.

But if someone doesn't like a med, and it's entirely possible that fentanyl may not agree with them, they can get careless with disposal.

[ET Awful]

139. Fentanyl patches are used post-surgery on pets.

I've had numerous cats with dental surgery and other procedures that were given post-surgical fentanyl patches. It is not a matter of tolerance in that regard.

The problem is if they handle then put in their mouths, etc. As far as a transdermal patch goes, I've had cats with no prior use of opioids have a patch applied post surgery and have zero impact other than the desired painkilling.

Please don't spread misinformation about it. A simple Google search regarding the use of fentanyl patches on pets post surgery would put some of your statement to rest.

Not that fentanyl isn't a risky substances when mis-used, but accuracy is important.

[Politicub]

148. I am trying to find these reports and am coming up short

These panics — especially about Fentanyl patches that people in chronic, severe pain use — can create agony in people whose quality of life depends on the bathes. It makes the patches harder to obtain, and doctors are reluctant to prescribe them because of fear of ending up on a state prescriber list.

Panics also make it harder to create good policies. If lawmakers start with hyperbole and not facts, bad policy that does more harm than good is the result.

Here’s a study about the overwhelming amount of misinformation spread by the media and social media: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7492952/

[forgotmylogin]

151. Here's an FDA page about fentanyl patch safety.

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/accidental-exposures-fentanyl-patches-continue-be-deadly-children

Children can overdose on new and used fentanyl patches by putting them in their mouth or sticking the patches on their skin. This can cause death by slowing the child’s breathing and decreasing the levels of oxygen in their blood.

The FDA has warned, and continues to warn, patients, caregivers, and health care professionals about the dangers of accidental exposure to the fentanyl patch, and the need to properly store and dispose of the product.

[Bear Creek]

82. Chillicothe prison

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state-ohio/troopers-at-least-one-dozen-guards-inmates-at-ohio-jail-may-have-overdosed?_amp=true

[RAB910]

92. Old article from when the myth was rampant

Researchers who study reported overdoses from fentanyl exposure among emergency responders have explained that cases documented thus far can best be attributed to the “nocebo effect”—a phenomenon in which individuals believe they have encountered a toxic substance and therefore experience the expected symptoms of exposure

https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-020-00402-2

[Bear Creek]

104. Not a myth

Actually happened the incident was in all the news. The hospitals were full. Wasn't nocebo but good try.

[RAB910]

109. You can repeat it, but it doesn't make it true

clearly you didn't read the article I gave you to link to. If you did:

Concerns about fentanyl exposure continue to spread despite a clear consensus from medical experts that overdose from incidental skin contact is a medical impossibility [14, 15]. Indeed, this claim has been officially debunked by the American College of Medical Toxicology and the American Academy of Clinical Toxicology [16] and the National Occupational Safety and Health with the CDC [26]. A drug policy advocate has also disproven this myth by holding fentanyl powder in his hand without consequence and widely circulating the internet footage [15]. Researchers who study reported overdoses from fentanyl exposure among emergency responders have explained that cases documented thus far can best be attributed to the “nocebo effect”—a phenomenon in which individuals believe they have encountered a toxic substance and therefore experience the expected symptoms of exposure [27]. This is consistent with our broader understanding of occupational wellness and mental health—or lack thereof—among first responders [28]. When individuals are already operating under acute stress and with few mental health reserves, fear of overdose from touching fentanyl could serve as an additional stressor.

if that is not enough



Recent media reports have highlighted stories of exposure to a white powdery substance assumed to be fentanyl and the wide variety of adverse medical reactions that followed. While these stories are disturbing, it is important for everyone involved to separate fact from fiction when talking about fentanyl exposure to avoid unnecessary confusion and panic.

Illicit fentanyl cannot be absorbed through the skin or by touching an item or surface where it is present. When in powder form, fentanyl and its analogs (including carfentanil and fluorofentanyl) cannot be absorbed through the skin. Dissolving the powder in a liquid does not change this property. Wet objects do not pose an increased risk for an overdose caused by casual exposure.

“It’s so important to separate fact from fiction when it comes to fentanyl because Tennesseans are dying of overdose by the thousands. It is our hope that these facts will help people who are struggling with opioid use reach to treatment if they need it and find a new life in recovery,” said TDMHSAS Commissioner Marie Williams, LCSW.

https://www.tn.gov/behavioral-health/news/2022/8/24/state-departments-issue-guidance-around-fentanyl-exposure-.html#:~:text=Illicit%20fentanyl%20cannot%20be%20absorbed,does%20not%20change%20this%20property.

OR


This has come to more attention since the CDC recently removed a video from the NIOSH site that it says "mischaracterizes" the dangers of fentanyl exposure for police and first responders. There are many such videos of police officers quickly showing overt symptoms or even collapsing after exposure to minute quantities of fentanyl - or even just possible fentanyl - and these are just not pharmacologically possible. Fentanyl is not absorbed through the skin like this. Yes, there are indeed fentanyl skin patches for hospital pain relief, but these are formulated with other agents to make the skin more permeable under the patch (as are all such skin-patch dosage forms). Think about it: you do not see opioid addicts rubbing small bits of fentanyl on the backs of their hands for a quick hit. But this hysteria - which is what to call it - has spread to the point that random people are fainting when they think they've been exposed by (for example) picking up money off the floor.

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/fainting-fentanyl-exposure-nope

[Bear Creek]

120. You can repeat it

But it doesn't make it right. Do you know anyone or just read an article? Probably just read the article. How about the root cause. Say Canada, that is where the majority is manufactured and comes across the border there.

[RAB910]

133. How can you repeatedly deny facts?!?!

[BlackSkimmer]

136. Interesting...

Thanks for posting this.

[Bear Creek]

105. NIOSH

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/fentanyl/risk.html

[RAB910]

137. Page last reviewed: February 11, 2020

what could possibly have kept the CDC too busy to update this with the proper information?

[forgotmylogin]

152. How about an FDA page from 7/21/2021?

Or will you only believe advice if it's from yesterday?

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/accidental-exposures-fentanyl-patches-continue-be-deadly-children

Children can overdose on new and used fentanyl patches by putting them in their mouth or sticking the patches on their skin. This can cause death by slowing the child’s breathing and decreasing the levels of oxygen in their blood.

The FDA has warned, and continues to warn, patients, caregivers, and health care professionals about the dangers of accidental exposure to the fentanyl patch, and the need to properly store and dispose of the product.

[RAB910]

155. this

&t=51s

[forgotmylogin]

161. Well, you've certainly convinced me.

Now I know what to give out for Halloween as fun children's stickers.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. .

they had to narcan a couple of COs when taking the property of the person being jailed.

I can guarantee those COs were not ODing from touching personal property.

[Kaleva]

5. A recent DEA press release

https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2022/08/30/dea-warns-brightly-colored-fentanyl-used-target-young-americans

[muriel_volestrangler]

156. The thing is, those are not "made to look like candy to children and young people"

They are made to look like legitimate pharmaceutical pills. They have a line and "30" embossed on them. The DEA is fearmongering. The maker of those may be hoping that their customers can get away with those looking like a medicine, but that's not what candy looks like.

And that's why the idea that this is a Halloween problem is ridiculous. As has been pointed out, you sell drugs - to people who can pay for them. You don't give them away to very young kids (ie those going around on Halloween) who won't be able to pay for their next fix. If it's a problem, it's in clubs where adults take all sorts of shit.

[Kaleva]

157. So the Biden Administration is fear mongering ?

[muriel_volestrangler]

159. The DEA part of it is, yes. He should bring them back to reality.

It's well-known for law enforcement to try and build their empires by pretending the problems they're in charge of are worse than they are (see: The War On Drugs, for the DEA).

[pwb]

6. I don't read every post but I have

not heard any joking about that.

[Hekate]

24. More along the lines of "parents think Halloween candy is fentanyl because FOX told them so"

That’s a way of dismissing it because of the source.

But there are other sources, and easily checked. I just googled “los angeles times + fentanyl” and a whole string of articles popped up.

[yardwork]

111. Fox News, Lauren Boebert and others are absolutely lying about this.

People are being told that Joe Biden is paying drug dealers to smuggle fentanyl across the border so that serial killers can give it out to children at Halloween. It's another example of Republicans taking a true public health crisis and twisting it into political propaganda.

I've told all my grown kids to be very careful about buying any drug - I don't think they do but you never know - as cross-contamination with tiny amounts of fentanyl is lethal. This is a true problem. Fentanyl at Halloween is not.

[RAB910]

10. DEA says the leading supplier of fentanyl is China

Mexico and India are also suppliers

So any talk of the border is right-wing false propaganda

[Tickle]

13. please leave politics

out of this. Fentanyl does come from India and China and then the drugs get made in mexico and come into this country. Again it's been happening since their twart was in charge

[RAB910]

16. please keep this factual

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-008-20%20Fentanyl%20Flow%20in%20the%20United%20States_0.pdf

[Tickle]

18. we are done talking

I live this every day. I'm 100% involved in my state with fentanyl. Go give someone else a hard time. Thank you

[RAB910]

30. my job literally involved drug overdoses, so spare me the lecture

[obamanut2012]

20. You are again spreading misinformation

And doubling down when posters show you you are incorrect. Please stop.

[Tickle]

26. Normally I would stop

but I'm not stopping here. Nothing I said was not factual. If you want to argue why or how they ingested the the fentanyl we can do that. It happened, my son would never lie about something like this

[CloudWatcher]

66. Nobody here is lying

You said your son told you that "two COs had to be narcanned" ... nobody here is questioning that the COs were given narcan and that they believed at the time that it was needed. The dialog is whether or not they really "had to" have the narcan or if they were having panic attacks and/or psychosomatic symptoms ... and were not really in medical need of the narcan.

I know nothing about fentanyl, but I'd guess that the CO's in question didn't have an objective metric that they had been exposed and instead opted for the 'abundance of caution' path of taking some narcon in response to their perceived symptoms.

Of course I don't know the facts of this instance, but there's room here for everyone to be telling the truth.

[BannonsLiver]

80. Everything in our country is political.

EVERYTHING. I’m not saying that’s how it should be but it’s engrained in our culture now and will be for the foreseeable future. It’s very destructive, unfortunately.

[yardwork]

113. The Republicans made it political and they're using it to win elections.

We have to separate truth from propaganda.

[IronLionZion]

51. Plenty of it is made in America

People make pills in their basements that look just like legit pharmaceuticals

[LeftInTX]

87. Although the main supplier is China, if fentanyl is coming from MX, it's coming from MX

It gives the RW fodder.
"They snuck across and avoided detection"
"The border isn't secure"

Lather, rinse, repeat....

It's like when an undocumented immigrant shot a women in San Francisco. The RW used it to their advantage.

[yardwork]

112. Thank you for your efforts in this thread.

As with Covid, Republicans twist the truth and end up making a true health problem worse because of their disinformation.

It makes me mad

[RAB910]

114. It makes me mad as well

[yardwork]

116. All we can do is keep stating facts. You're doing a great job.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

11. I'm very sorry for your loss.

Prior to seeing your post here I tried to pushback against the mockery and reality-denialism around fentanyl is a couple of other current threads.

I'm truly sorry to read that you are a parent who lost a child to fentanyl.

Thank you for speaking honestly. That can't be easy.

[Hekate]

12. Los Angeles Times did a recent front pager on rainbow fentanyl after a couple of 15 year olds ...

… were poisoned by another 15 year old. He didn’t know what he was selling and now he’s up on a murder charge. They thought they were taking a fraction of a Percocet tab. One of the girls died, the other landed in the hospital and almost died.

When I was in college the caution was “speed kills” and even my wild brother steered clear of speed.

Illegal fentanyl doesn’t even give you a chance.

Thank you for your post, and my heart breaks for your loss.

[Tickle]

17. exactly

it doesn't give you a chance. The potential recoveree doesn't get a chance to overcome their addiction because fentanyl kills that fast.

[Rebl2]

78. Same thing

happened here in KC area. Young man thought he was taking a Percocet. It was fentanyl and he died.

[yardwork]

115. This is exactly what's happening, and it's heartbreaking.

Cross-contamination of illicitly made drugs is always a problem, but the fact that tiny amounts of fentanyl are lethal makes the problem a crisis.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

21. Who around here is saying that it's not 'real'?

So sorry about your son John. I lost a dear high school/college friend to Fentanyl just last year. His son had JUST started college. Sucks!

Fentanyl is a dangerous, shitty opioid for many reasons, esp. in the illicit trade.

That's because:
1) The high lasts a very short time, leading to a lot of re-dosing.
2) Even while it's working, it has a substandard high compared to real dope like oxycodone, dilaudid, and heroin.
3) Its ratio of 'high' to 'respiratory depression' is terribly low. IOW, it suppresses breathing a LOT ... while not really making the user feel the high they're after.
4) it's so concentrated that it requires lab-grade equipment to measure properly, which the people who produce it ... often don't have/use. This means in essence, you don't really know what you're getting, strength-wise when you buy fentanyl-laced products, and there's a very small margin of error.

This being said, if users could go to the corner drug store and buy proper dope like oxy and dilaudid of known purity and strength ... the overdose RATE at least would go down, and fentanyl would quickly be entirely out of favor. We'd also stop funding the cartels producing it and reduce violence in a number of other countries they make (and use) it in.

[yardwork]

117. Agree with everything you've posted, plus...

The whole situation is an argument for more guvernment regulation, not less. If drugs were legal and subject to FDA oversight, there'd be a lot fewer accidental deaths from cross-contamination and uneven dosing.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

123. Agreed. And even just a mandatory 5 mins of counseling from a professional

every time you pick up your legal drugs would be a HUUUUGE help in cutting down the OD rate. And if in those sessions they're made aware, repeatedly, that there is low/no cost help, options to switch to buprenorphine (again, at a reasonable cost), etc.? An even more significant benefit.

[yardwork]

126. And, while we're planning... how about addressing the root causes of despair.

Mental health care, readily available at reasonable cost, plus decent jobs with living wages, plus a reasonable safety net for when things go wrong and people need a little help, plus better working conditions that prevent on the job injuries, and follow-up care for those who are injured - all would go a long way toward reducing addictions.

But no, in the U.S. we get a different approach, thanks to Republicans, who dare to blame this crisis on Democrats.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

132. +1000 (nt)

[NNadir]

22. Thank you. My nephew's best friend lost his mother to an OD.

The boy was 13 and he found his mother dead in a hammock.

It messed him up royally.

Condolences on your personal loss.

[Tickle]

25. I hate those stories

they are so heart breaking

[XanaDUer2]

27. I'm sorry for your loss nt

[Baggies]

28. I'm sorry

I can’t believe a lot of the nonsense I read here. But this is a tragedy effecting the whole nation and should be taken seriously. It is being taken seriously by serious thinking people.

I had a friend in my childhood who was hospitalized because someone laced Halloween candy with some type of hallucinogen. Not even close to what you’ve been through, but still tragic. That there could be people who might do that type of thing with fentanyl this time around is all too real. Anything we can do to make the public aware is good.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

42. All too real?

What would be the motivation?

Whatever it is, betting it's exactly the same as putting rat poison in Halloween candy.

[Baggies]

48. Exactly

There’s some nasty people who get some kick out of hurting kids, just like they did my friend. Rat poison, fentanyl, they don’t care what they have to use.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

53. That would track more closely with 'evil people' than the fact that there's a lot of fentanyl around

Is the point I'm making.

You can poison people with so many things, many of them exist in far higher quantities and are procured much cheaper.

I just don't think it's likely that the fact that there's a lot of fentanyl on the streets is going to lead to people deciding to hand it out to children in Halloween candy.

People who buy illicit fentanyl ... want their fentanyl.

Simple as that, really. Just sayin'

[Baggies]

55. In general I agree.

I also would have thought people who like hallucinogens would rather trip on them than hand them out to kids, but that wasn’t the case.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

65. What year are we talking here? Just curious ...

[Aristus]

33. I don't think anyone is downplaying or denying a deadly epidemic of Fentanyl overdoses.

I just think it's highly unlikely that anyone is giving it away for free to anyone who knocks on the door.

[Tickle]

37. agree

I did say the halloween thing was like the razor blade in the apple thing. No one is going to give it out free for halloween.

I was just trying to make others aware. Tuff crowd here

[Midnight Writer]

35. Little town of 1200 people near me had four Fentanyl deaths in one week.

I'm not laughing.

[Tickle]

39. it's sad and a small town

like that losing 4 people is huge

[Midnight Writer]

45. Fentanyl is ravaging small towns, and local cops (often part-time constables) can't stop it.

Education is the best weapon against it. Folks don't know what they are getting into.

[SergeStorms]

36. I must have missed the thread(s) where....

people were dismissing the Fentanyl epidemic in this country. If I had seen them I would have certainly said something.

Mexican drug cartels are merciless. They'll decapitate someone just for looking at them the wrong way. They have a saying, "plata o plomo". Translated it means, "silver or lead". Those are your choices from the cartels if you're lucky. Sometimes they don't give you a choice. They just kill you. And if anyone thinks I'm exaggerating about this, PM me and I'll send you the urls for some websites that will make you wish you'd never asked me for them. You can't "un-see" these things once you've seen them. I'm a "man-in-full", as they say, and I wish I'd never seen them. Life means nothing to these people.

They are FLOODING this country with Fentanyl in all shapes, sizes, and colors. They can't keep up with poppy cultivation for heroin, so Fentanyl is their cheaper alternative. Life in the United States has become so unbearable to so many people - young and old - that they'd rather inject or ingest this poison than face reality in the U.S.

Its a problem as real and as deadly as COVID, and just as prevalent, with the exception of there not being a vaccine that will combat Fentanyl.

Believe every word Tickle has written, because it's the truth. Forewarned is forearmed.

[Mariana]

84. There never was any such thread.

Some people scoffed at a very specific assertion that drug dealers would be handing out fentanyl disguised as candy to little kids on Halloween. That in no way denies that fentanyl is dangerous, that it is too easily available in the US, or that there are too many deaths resulting from its use.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

86. Well I did make a joke that I'd be trick or treating this year

Or was I joking

[SergeStorms]

95. You don't want any of that stuff....

even you, Dude. 😉

[Hugh_Lebowski]

96. In the opioid world that shit is the equivalent of year-old brown mexi-dirt weed smuggled

into the states in the spare tire of a Semi.

Except unlike weed, you die when you keep taking it, trying to catch some semblance of a decent buzz.

Now, if they're given out Dilaudid for Halloween ... that's a totally different story

[SergeStorms]

124. Hardcore, Dude.

Back in the 60s in rural New York all we could get our hands on was that brown, Mexican ditch weed (before I moved to California). People actually saved the seeds (there were always plenty of seeds) and planted it along abandoned railroad tracks (so it would get plenty of sun) and then it became home-grown, greenish, New York ditch weed.

In the 70s we started getting better weed, both in Cali and New York. Local growers actually began growing it for increased THC content. Imagine that.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

125. And now, workday is over so just ate a 5mg Indica gummie I procured totally legally in AZ

Gotta love that shit

Back in the early 2000's I was pretty hardcore (I'd blame the Sacklers but it was only partially their fault ... mostly it was mine). Let's just say when I talk dope (and that's not what I call weed), a great deal of it comes from personal experience.

I don't fuck with that shit anymore, been a good long while, but I've never really stopped liking/romanticizing it.

[SergeStorms]

130. Well, I get the hard stuff legally....

but I can't do any cannabis legally (although it's legal in NY now).

I have back problems, multiple surgeries, so I get prescription opiates. I'd like to try some couch-lock Indica for relaxation and sleeping, but because cannabis is still a schedule 1 drug, and because I had to sign an opioid contract for the pain meds, I can't have any THC in my system or it voids my opioid contract.

So I'm just about the opposite of everyone else in the U.S.

If Biden gets the Feds to decriminalize cannabis I can try it again to see if it helps me enough to get the hell off the opioids, which I'd dearly love.

I used to take just about everything under the sun, but no needles or meth. I had to have some boundaries because I have addictive tendencies and I knew I'd push the envelope. Psychedelics were my preferred drugs of choice, and Peruvian marching powder. I had a real problem with that in the 80s.

Oh well, now that we're done smelling each other's drug crotches 🐕🐕 nice to meet 'ya, Hugh Lebowski.

[SergeStorms]

94. OK, thanks.

I didn't think I'd let something like that get past me, but I'm not on DU 24/7/365 so many threads get past me anyway.

Thanks for the explanation.

[inthewind21]

91. Agree

They are flooding this country with all sorts of illegal drugs. You ever wonder why? Because they have a market to sell it. A very large one that is very profitable, You don't think cartels or anyone else looking to sell anything set up shop where there is no demand do you? Should the cartels be here? No. Should they be flooding our streets will illegal drugs? A resounding NO. However, why are we not also asking/addressing/admitting the FACT that OUR citizens, kids and adults alike are the cartels dream market.

[rockfordfile]

38. You've got to be careful. There's always been crazy people doing things like that

[Caliman73]

41. Sorry for your situation.

I don't think that people are doubting that the Fentanyl overdose epidemic is real.

People seem to be conflating the real effects of drug overdoses with the lies that the Republicans are putting out about undocumented immigrants coming across the border with the intention to hand out Fentanyl for free as Halloween Candy.

That flies against any reasonable understanding of the drug trade. Yet a lot of people are defending Boebert's statements under the guise that "the Fentanyl epidemic is true". Those are two completely different stories.

Thanks for starting a separate thread.

as for this:

I can't for the life of me understand how this became a political issue but I need help in making it stop.

It is not a political issue for Democrats. It is a public health issue. It is a partisan issue only for Republicans because they have no good policy solutions. They exist only to promote bad faith arguments that can be used to attack Democrats in order to gain power. That is how this became a political issue. If Democrats were completely in charge, treatment, interdiction, and other strategies would be being formulated to try to get a handle on the situation. Republicans obstruct any expenditure of public money, except in stupid showed of "security theater" which is the least effective strategy to deal with public health problems.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

46. Well said as usual (nt)

[obamanut2012]

47. Well said

[Tickle]

49. fuck republicans

I'm getting tired of them.

thank you for understand my post and breaking it down as it gives credibility to what I am trying to share.

[chowder66]

56. +1

[yardwork]

118. Excellent. Thanks.

[Prairie_Seagull]

160. Again, well said.

[fishwax]

50. Fentanyl is real and is dangerous. That doesn't mean we shouldn't push back on hyperbole.

Addressing inaccuracies (like the trick or treat nonsense) is an essential component of actually taking the problem seriously.

Our current drug crisis is, in part, a function of anti-drug forces crying wolf about the dangers of drugs for generations. So when there are people crying wolf (Halloween candy being handed out by illegals, for instance), it's worth calling that out.

The danger of NOT pushing back on that sort of nonsense is that people then won't view the legitimate discussion of the legitimate dangers of drugs like fentanyl as credible.

[Mr.Bill]

153. I was going to post something similar,

but you said it very well. I totally agree. Any anti-drug messaging must be truthfull and accurate. We don't need to scare people, we need to inform them. Facts are the best anti-drug message.

[stopdiggin]

52. sorry. fentanyl is a nasty piece of work

but not everything we 'hear about it' is true.

What is undeniably true is that's taking far too many of citizens.

[Warpy]

59. Fentanyl is an ugly drug, I hated using it in the hospital

because the doses are so tiny and so fiddly. I hated it even worse when I got it after my hip snapped. It is not a pleasant feeling.

Scumbags are cutting their heroin with it because it's cheaper than heroin. Throw in some fentanyl and five times as much mannitol and nobody will ever know, right? Except they can't mix it well enough to ensure a predictable dose. That's why people are dying.

Most street fentanyl is diverted from China. China has made some halfhearted attempts to stop the flow, but that's all. The shit usually goes to the gangs in Mexico, is packaged there, and sold here. Since China's real estate economy is teetering on the brink, don't expect a great moneymaker like fentanyl to be shut down.

I would love to see Narcan made over the counter, right out on the shelf, no questions asked, no paper trail created. It might have saved your son and the hundreds of other people who die from that garbage every year.

And to hell with those who think shaming or prison will get people off drugs. They don't.

[momta]

61. Thanks for posting this, Tickles.

Sorry you've gotten grief from some, and I'm so sorry for the loss of your son.

It's an insidious problem, and the more awareness the better.

[DashOneBravo]

75. I agree with you

And you said it better, than I could.

Some people are just awful.

[grantcart]

68. Very distressed to hear of your suffering.

Good luck in educating people on this danger.

[deurbano]

69. My childhood friend's beloved grandson, Nick, died of a fentanyl overdose last year at 24.

The medical examiner thought it was accidental, and that he didn't know he was injecting 100% fentanyl, since there had been similar overdoses in the area.

Another lovely boy from my extended family died of a fentanyl overdose this year at 24. In his case, they suspect the overdose was deliberate, because this highly intelligent, compassionate, handsome young man had been tortured with depression and opioid addiction since his senior year of high school. He dropped out of his high-ranked university as a freshman, and then never got back on track. His mother (who is also an amazing person and a fantastic mom) had to use Narcan to revive him at least four different times. When he died, he was at a rehab facility (again), and they were so hopeful this time would be different.

We need harm reduction measures ASAP.... like free fentanyl testing strips, Narcan, safe injection sites and much more overdose awareness/prevention education for users, loved ones and the public, in general. People are accidentally getting fentanyl, even when recreationally taking non-opioid drugs.

Nick was alone when he overdosed, so he had no chance, unless he had used a testing strip. There is a new invention (I think it's still in the testing stage) that involves the implantation of a pump that will automatically release Narcan if an overdose is detected. That could have helped Nick.

For my young relative, the situation was more complex, since he had access to much more support and many more financial resources than most people with substance use disorder, and received extensive help with interventions I think are considered best practices... but to no avail. I have to say I was naive about that, since I had thought that would ultimately be enough. (Of course, fentanyl has drastically reduced the possibility of second chances.) We need so much more research to find out how to better support those most vulnerable.

So much tragedy, devastating so many lives.

[FakeNoose]

70. It only takes 2 milligrams to be fatal - enough to fit on a pencil tip

This illustration is from the DEA flyer about the danger of fentanyl.

[2abigbman]

71. That's the problem

It's not a new problem, we saw this coming in 2012. It was originally coming in packages from China.It was pharmacy quality Fentanyl. It was used to tranquilize Elephants and large animals. Small quantities are used as an pain killer and anesthetic. Mexican cartels and labs have switched from Meth to Fentanyl for increased profits. The problem used to be heroin infused with Fentanyl . NOW it's straight Fentanyl which is lethal in extremely small amounts. But selling a single pill is an act of deliberate murder.

[Tickle]

85. yes!

When we drug test them when they come into detox and lately there is no trace of heroin it's all fentanyl. Even during intake fentanyl is not on the list but heroin is and they will say no to heroin because at this point they call it "fetti" and they ask for fetti. Apparently this is no Heroin anymore on the streets it's all fentanyl.

My son had been clean for 8 months and, well, I'll never know what went through his head in his last 48 hours of his life but he used and it was fentanyl which his body probably could have taken prior to the 8 months of sobriety

[mountain grammy]

76. This mom of a heroin addict is glad to see this thread.

I think she's clean now, but never can be sure. Even with some of the disagreements here, this is an important and informative discussion.

[Tickle]

83. you are in my thoughts

and heart. I know what you are going through

[mountain grammy]

119. Thank you and you're in mine

I am so sorry about your son. What a terrible tragedy and I've seen it happen way too often. It's wonderful that you are active in the fight against this. I lived in Hartford for 6 years, all through high school.. graduated Hartford High, class of 65. I love Colorado but always miss Connecticut.

All the best to you and thank you for what you're doing.

[vercetti2021]

77. I'm so sorry

This should never happen to anybody and of course it should never be downplayed ever.

But you're always going to have people using it for politics and trying to scare people during Halloween that's what makes me very angry about it taking a serious issue and turning it into political points

[BannonsLiver]

79. There's a difference between a rational, contemplative response to an issue and fear mongering

Unfortunately our media only does the latter. That’s how you get the responses you’ve probably seen by some here with regard to this issue.

[DashOneBravo]

81. Good Morning America has a video 5Oct

“ Just weeks before Halloween, law enforcement officials are warning about a deadly drug packaged in pills that "look like candy."

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/amp/wellness/story/rainbow-fentanyl-schools-announce-plans-fight-growing-crisis-90378051


Per the DEA :
“Approximately 15,000 candy-colored fentanyl pills seized in Manhattan”

https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2022/10/04/trafficker-quantities-rainbow-fentanyl-arrive-new-york

[bronxiteforever]

88. I am so sorry for your loss. I remember when OxyContin

hit the streets. Purdue Pharmacy made a pill with 160 mgs of oxycodone. The usual oxycodone pill was a 5mg tab of Percocet. OxyContin was unlike anything we had seen. Many,many people died from that. A family member almost died from the abuse of OxyContin and his escape from it was due to resources and a caring family. None that would have mattered if he kept using though.

Now fentanyl has made the user grade. It is an incredibly deadly drug.

Yet I believe it must be a public health issue first with some components of law enforcement. We will never stop powder coming across the border any better than Reagan and Bush stopped powdered cocaine or Clinton and Shrub stopped powdered heroin. Powder is the easiest thing to get through the massive amount of shipping that goes through our borders in this Country. Fentanyl has to stop with users and public health warnings because the powder is going to get through no matter what.

Politics is always involved in drug issues because it involves the expenditure of public funds.

[no_hypocrisy]

89. I'm sorry for your loss.

My goddaughter died of a Fentanyl overdose. She died and left behind a five year old daughter who found her body.

[Tickle]

98. so many sad stories

and we never get used to them. I hope that 5 year old is in a home and happy. As happy as she can be

[no_hypocrisy]

99. My goddaughter's grandfather was raising her. He's now raising his great granddaughter.

He just asked me to be my goddaughter's godmother.

I'm going to have a relationship with a little girl and hope to make a difference.

[Tickle]

101. Thank goodness he has you in his life

How old is he?

[no_hypocrisy]

107. 75. The oldest and dearest friend.

He's a gem. A Mensch.

[jalan48]

93. Thank you for posting this.

[Sogo]

97. Whose goal; what do you mean by this sentence? Who is saying this???

"Our goal is to make Fentanyl a weapon of mass destruction."

[Tickle]

100. The group in CT that does the overdose awareness.

They have been saying it for a couple of years. My understanding of John Lally going to DC in august was to present his case far making fentanyl a weapon of mass destruction. I don't have any involvement with the weapon of mass destruction on goings.

[BlackSkimmer]

106. K and r...

Sorry for any pushback you're getting.

I don't pretend to know much about this drug, but it's obviously nothing to fool with. No one should take it information about it lightly.

[Johnny2X2X]

108. I've lost multiple friends to fentanyl

No one is saying it isn’t real.

And they are trying to disguise it as candy. But that’s also of little risk to be handed out as Halloween candy.

There are honestly millions of people who won’t allow their kids to Trick R Treat because of these misleading reports. Fentanyl is awful. Fentanyl is not going to be handed out as Halloween candy.

[yardwork]

110. I'm very sorry for your loss.

As a mother, I can't imagine losing a child.

It's important to separate facts from political propaganda. What you've posted about cross-contamination is true. However, Republicans are taking this public health crisis, as they did with Covid, and turning it into a political weapon with falsehoods. People are being told that Biden is paying people to bring fentanyl across the border just to kill children. Republicans are saying that fentanyl will be handed out at Halloween. These are false statements.

[Brainfodder]

122. Awareness is all we can do, I am aware, was before this, this aint the first crazy dangerous thing.

Only use legal medications is the takeaway?

That sounded like all were black market acquired?

Not dismissing at all, but the black market never goes away?

Unless govt. makes them all legal and cheap?

[Pacifist Patriot]

138. I am so sorry for your loss.

And gobsmacked anyone would think this crisis isn't real.

[Martin68]

142. I didn't realize anyone did not think fentanyl and the many articles about the overdose problem

were real.

[czarjak]

143. Worrisome for sure. 274 A day? Damn!

[Politicub]

149. I'm sorry about what happened to you.

Your story breaks my heart. Please keep telling it.

But also, I would like you make you aware of something: Conflating legitimate uses for fentanyl with illegally produced fentanyl, by trying to make people think of the compound as a weapon of mass destruction, will reduce the quality of life of people with chronic pain.

These people exist. They use fentanyl patches as prescribed. Bad policy made because of misinformation can make legitimate products harder or impossible to get.

I urge you to read this study howabout misinformation about fentanyl has lead to a panic. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7492952/

[Iggo]

150. For the love of...

[Demsrule86]

154. I have seen this post for a while...and what I read on DU was how folks on the right are claiming

fentanyl-laced candy is coming over the border to be used on trick-or-treaters. This is a midterm attack. That is bullshit. I am aware of how deadly fentanyl is as more than a few from my daughter's high school class have died of overdoses of this drug...or barely been saved. I saw no one here say it was not real...but like all drugs( for whatever reason) people decide to use them. Some of these kids came from nice homes and have good parents. I am not sure how to stop this.

[LymphocyteLover]

158. What is "fetti" that people say they only have taken?

Anyway, thanks for the warning. It's scary out there. I would not buy ANY drugs on the black market, that is for sure, not even pot.

it is one reason legalization of some drugs would be good so the govt can certify the purity etc.

It's just super sad people think they need to take these drugs and buy it illegally. One big problem is people needing this stuff.

[GusBob]

162. India and China are manufacturing the poisons

The labs in Mexico get them to process. No more waiting on plants to grow. Manufacturing 24/7/365 now. Distribution networks in place. Doesn’t take tons of this or bales of that

On the Rez now after weekends when dozens of EMS calls they hand out Narcan like candy

[mahina]

163. Fentanyl is definitely real and killing so many by overdose.

Also not being handed out to children disguised as candy.

Sam Quinone’s last big book was really good. As all his books are.