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Remember, in1999, when Ralph Nader told us "there was not a dime's worth of difference" (Original Post) OAITW r.2.0 Oct 2022 OP
I think he very recently announced there was a BIG difference MerryHolidays Oct 2022 #1
That's my point. OAITW r.2.0 Oct 2022 #5
Incredibly late. In the 1990s, the Republican Party had already Hortensis Oct 2022 #15
100% Cosmocat Oct 2022 #29
About as much as a Corrupt supreme court did about their part. Any complaints about that? Autumn Oct 2022 #2
Too bad a recount was necessary mzmolly Oct 2022 #8
Then people need to do something about who can run for president. In any given presidential Autumn Oct 2022 #14
We're discussing Nader mzmolly Oct 2022 #17
Yes we are discussing Nader. Nader who had a constitutional right to run for president. Autumn Oct 2022 #27
Nader had a right to run and lie to his ignorant mzmolly Oct 2022 #31
I doubt there's any Nader fans here. He's old and irrelevant, only comes up here when he's Autumn Oct 2022 #32
I believe his assertion that it mattered not who nominated our SCOTUS mzmolly Oct 2022 #38
I consider Bush to be a legacy of a corrupt Supreme court. YMOV so I'm Autumn Oct 2022 #39
... with the help of Nader, mzmolly Oct 2022 #40
By all means. Give those republicans a pass. I give no repuke a pass. nt Autumn Oct 2022 #42
I think it's clear we're not on the same mzmolly Oct 2022 #44
This is a BIG problem DontBelieveEastisEas Oct 2022 #46
Designed by a republican, on purpose. DontBelieveEastisEas Oct 2022 #45
In Duval County, Views of Vote Process as Different as Black and White (December 10, 2000) Celerity Oct 2022 #25
So much came out about the 2000 election but not a damn thing was done about it. Autumn Oct 2022 #26
Ask Susan Sarandon leftieNanner Oct 2022 #3
Here it is MerryHolidays Oct 2022 #4
When he Said that in '99 he Lost Me! My jaw dropped! Asshat. electric_blue68 Oct 2022 #6
Nader also said abortion law could just go back to states. nt delisen Oct 2022 #7
I always like Nader but disagreed with him in 2000 mountain grammy Oct 2022 #9
Joe Lieberman: just awful. MerryHolidays Oct 2022 #11
He was a republican when he was a Democrat mountain grammy Oct 2022 #12
I disagree with you now. Nader is a fairly corrupt ignoramus. NNadir Oct 2022 #18
People like him still feel that way in their big ideological picture while Hortensis Oct 2022 #10
+1 OAITW r.2.0 Oct 2022 #13
Well said. n/t. NNadir Oct 2022 #19
Truth Just A Box Of Rain Oct 2022 #20
Yes. betsuni Oct 2022 #22
Speak on it Hortensis!!!! It happens every election cycle. Tarheel_Dem Oct 2022 #24
that didn't age particularly well, did it? stopdiggin Oct 2022 #16
Shit, I'm still hearing it from self-styled independents...nt Wounded Bear Oct 2022 #34
do they at least have the grace stopdiggin Oct 2022 #36
Can't see their eyebrows on line... Wounded Bear Oct 2022 #37
Why are we talking about 1999? progressoid Oct 2022 #21
We all know why Sympthsical Oct 2022 #28
Darn you. Stupid ear worm. progressoid Oct 2022 #30
It was awful Sympthsical Oct 2022 #35
Yip. Thanks, Ralphie for everything. UTUSN Oct 2022 #23
Shit, I'm still hearing it from self-styled independents... Wounded Bear Oct 2022 #33
Gotta love Autumn still sticking up for Grifter Ralph BannonsLiver Oct 2022 #41
This was said at a time when Congressional Democrats were acting "GOP Lite" to win votes ZonkerHarris Oct 2022 #43

MerryHolidays

(7,715 posts)
1. I think he very recently announced there was a BIG difference
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 07:26 PM
Oct 2022

It was quoted here on DU, and I'll see if I can dig it up.

But, yes, it was a ridiculous statement then, and it is beyond ridiculous today. Imagine our country and world if Al Gore, and not that buffoon W, had been President. And then who do the Repubs "gift" us with after W? trump.

Pathetic and disastrous.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
15. Incredibly late. In the 1990s, the Republican Party had already
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 08:46 PM
Oct 2022

purged most traditional conservatism and moderates from office and replaced them with corrupt far-right servants of the wealthy. It was already an outrageous and intensely dishonest statement back then when the GOP was already becoming dangerous, with, we now know, RW leaders working to take over the government.

Cosmocat

(14,575 posts)
29. 100%
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 09:02 AM
Oct 2022

I was a young man in 90s and could clearly see the Republican party post "Republican Revolution" in 94 was morally corrupt under a very thin veil of pretty talking points.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
2. About as much as a Corrupt supreme court did about their part. Any complaints about that?
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 07:26 PM
Oct 2022

When the votes were counted Al Gore had won.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
14. Then people need to do something about who can run for president. In any given presidential
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 08:25 PM
Oct 2022

election on my ballot for president there will be several candidates. Any citizen who is a natural-born citizen of the United States, is at least 35 years old, and has been a resident of the United States for 14 years has a right to run for president.

In 2020 there were 24 candidates running for President here in CO, Biden won. IMO there are no safe states.

mzmolly

(51,006 posts)
17. We're discussing Nader
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 09:58 PM
Oct 2022

Last edited Sat Oct 8, 2022, 09:29 AM - Edit history (1)

as I recall? He promised to run in 'safe' states, which meant skipping states (like Florida) where the race didn't come down to 500 votes.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
27. Yes we are discussing Nader. Nader who had a constitutional right to run for president.
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 08:55 AM
Oct 2022

He's not the first non Democrat or non Republican to run for president. Happens every four years.

When the votes were counted Al Gore had won but that dirty SC stopped the recount. Al Gore won and Bush was installed, and Democrats and the people stayed silent. That's what should piss people off not that some candidate with no magic letters behind their name ran.

500 votes? Try 2,000 Democratic voters voted by mistake for Pat Buchanan because of the design of Florida's butterfly ballots. A number bigger than Bush's victory. But yeah, Nader

mzmolly

(51,006 posts)
31. Nader had a right to run and lie to his ignorant
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 09:36 AM
Oct 2022

voting block, I agree. We’re all paying the price for the gullibility of his cult following today.

I wonder why Nader fans think Democratic Underground would welcome their ignorance, here?

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
32. I doubt there's any Nader fans here. He's old and irrelevant, only comes up here when he's
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 09:45 AM
Oct 2022

brought up for no reason. There are problems with our elections that can be fixed but it's much easier to not get over one face or the fact that people who are not in the two major parties can run for president.



mzmolly

(51,006 posts)
38. I believe his assertion that it mattered not who nominated our SCOTUS
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 11:22 AM
Oct 2022

is the reason for his continued relevance. Unfortunately, we have reminders of his legacy daily.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/politics/supreme-court/the-ralph-nader-supreme-court/

We know Republican's don't share our vision. Nader was a "progressive" spoiler, who assisted the right wing and he deserves to be remembered for that.

mzmolly

(51,006 posts)
44. I think it's clear we're not on the same
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 12:52 PM
Oct 2022

side as Republicans. Presumably, that's why we don't see many defending Bush or Trump here.

46. This is a BIG problem
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 02:39 PM
Oct 2022

Perhaps it would be better if a person's 2nd, then 3rd then 4th choice counted if their earlier pick was not the winner.
Ranked-choice, I believe.

Elections are too easily influenced with candidates like Perot and Kanye.

Celerity

(43,565 posts)
25. In Duval County, Views of Vote Process as Different as Black and White (December 10, 2000)
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 11:27 PM
Oct 2022
right here is the clearest proof of a stolen election, they just illegally tossed thousands of (concentrated numerically to a very large degree in heavily black areas) ballots, simple as that:


1 in 4 black votes were rejected in Duval County (by an all-white, all-male, all-Republican canvassing board)

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-dec-10-mn-63791-story.html

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — Terry Smith’s face scrunched up Saturday when he heard the news that the recounts had stopped.
“You’re lying, right?” he asked--twice--as he stared at the entrance of the Duval County Courthouse where the process was set to begin. But when he saw county workers filing out and heard the thud, thud, thud of news crews slamming van doors, he got his answer. “I feel cheated,” said Smith, a 33-year-old housekeeper. “I feel like I got left out.” Smith spoke for many in Duval County, home to the third-biggest pile of undervotes in the state. Democrats have their hopes pinned on these undervotes--ballots with no presidential choice clearly marked--because they believe many here come from first-time African American voters. Texas Gov. George W. Bush led Vice President Al Gore, 58% to 41%, in Duval County--but more than nine out of every 10 African Americans nationwide who voted chose Gore.

A Growing List of Complaints

snip

Ever since the Nov. 7 election, blacks here have been cataloging complaints: confusing ballot directions and Jim Crow-era voting machines; delayed reports of undervotes after election day; an all-white, all-male, all-Republican canvassing board.

snip

Blacks also are frustrated by Duval County’s state-high 21,942 overvotes--or double-punched ballots--that also were not counted. Nearly 42% of the county’s spoiled ballots--overvotes and undervotes--came from predominantly black areas, even though only 20% of the total votes were cast there. Black leaders blame the high inner-city illiteracy rate and a sample ballot thought to be confusing to first-time voters. The evolution of Jacksonville has troubled many African American residents. The black-majority city merged with white-majority Duval County in 1968, diluting black political power just as many African Americans were first tasting it.

A Blistering Order From Washington

snip

Starting at 9 a.m. EST, lawyers for the Democratic and Republican parties appeared in front of the board and began arguing about how to cull the 4,967 undervotes from the 264,720 total votes cast. They also unloaded boilerplate arguments about ballot standards, with the Democrats insisting that the board consider dimpled chads and the Republicans pressing for a more restrictive, two-prong rule. Duval County officials said they would resolve that later. Meanwhile, the ballot counting machines arrived from Miami. On Friday, the Duval County board had ordered the machines flown up from Miami-Dade County, where officials two weeks ago had performed a similar cull. Despite GOP urgings that their use could result in a different number of undervotes, the canvassing board was all set to begin the separation process when the phone rang around 3 p.m.

snip

mountain grammy

(26,656 posts)
9. I always like Nader but disagreed with him in 2000
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 07:47 PM
Oct 2022

and other times.. Al Gore would have been a great president, no doubt, but his choice of Lieberman for a running mate was awful and didn't win him any votes. In fact I think he lost because of that, but it's dust in the wind now.

I'm glad Nader is still active and involved. He's a great mind who sees the corporate evil for what it is.

MerryHolidays

(7,715 posts)
11. Joe Lieberman: just awful.
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 07:54 PM
Oct 2022

I will never forget during that horrible month of the recounts when he said it didn't matter if the military votes weren't postmarked properly. I hope Al did not condone that, but that was just a total wimp-out.

mountain grammy

(26,656 posts)
12. He was a republican when he was a Democrat
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 08:00 PM
Oct 2022

and later when he became an Independent, still a republican.. I honestly can't stand that man.

NNadir

(33,563 posts)
18. I disagree with you now. Nader is a fairly corrupt ignoramus.
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 10:09 PM
Oct 2022

Ripping off college students back in the day with that PIRG thing, PIRG being an ignorance factory, was a disgrace.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
10. People like him still feel that way in their big ideological picture while
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 07:53 PM
Oct 2022

Last edited Fri Oct 7, 2022, 08:41 PM - Edit history (1)

being forced to publicly admit some difference in today's real world to retain credibility. Bernie Sanders was running on the same themes back then, and then with updated alterations in 2016 and 2020, but the same themes and insinuations of Democratic similarity to corrupt Republicans. Both Sanders and tRump even based campaigns on claims that Democrats "rigged" and stole the elections.

This warped, but entirely self promoting vision of the Democratic Party lives on. We always have believers coming to DU to denigrate Democrats as much as we let them get away with.

They and the MAGAs are two sides of a coin in that respect. Both find and create leaders who'll tell them what they want to hear, and they aren't about to give up the appalling dishonesty and wingnuttery required to support what they want to believe.

stopdiggin

(11,382 posts)
16. that didn't age particularly well, did it?
Fri Oct 7, 2022, 09:17 PM
Oct 2022

Come to think of it - you hear less and less people mouthing that tired old trope these days. (use to be utterly commonplace - but today .. ?) Something about not wanting to look like a complete f*cking moron ...

stopdiggin

(11,382 posts)
36. do they at least have the grace
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 11:11 AM
Oct 2022

to look slightly embarrassed when you give them the raised eyebrow? If not - then you're conversing with somebody that falls into the latter category mentioned.

Nobody but nobody, with any functioning brain cells ...

Wounded Bear

(58,725 posts)
37. Can't see their eyebrows on line...
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 11:15 AM
Oct 2022


But after a couple of decades of people telling me they are "independent" and then endlessly defending repub bullshit has left me a bit cynical of anybody who "bothsides" an issue, any issue. The number of people who claim to be independent that actually takes any progressive policies or arguments seriously runs in the less than 10% range in my experience.

Sympthsical

(9,124 posts)
28. We all know why
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 09:01 AM
Oct 2022

A secret desire to make Mambo No. 5 relevant again, and this is just a backdoor attempt.

I am Not. Having. It.

Sympthsical

(9,124 posts)
35. It was awful
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 10:57 AM
Oct 2022

My entire cardio routine had this running brain background for the duration.

Not even Britney techno mixes could wash it out.

Wounded Bear

(58,725 posts)
33. Shit, I'm still hearing it from self-styled independents...
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 10:04 AM
Oct 2022

who always seem to favor the repub point of view. But oh no, they're independents!

ZonkerHarris

(24,259 posts)
43. This was said at a time when Congressional Democrats were acting "GOP Lite" to win votes
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 12:33 PM
Oct 2022

It was a failed concept then and now.

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