General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRemember, in1999, when Ralph Nader told us "there was not a dime's worth of difference"
between The Republican and Democratic Party? Did he ever rescind this statement?
MerryHolidays
(7,715 posts)It was quoted here on DU, and I'll see if I can dig it up.
But, yes, it was a ridiculous statement then, and it is beyond ridiculous today. Imagine our country and world if Al Gore, and not that buffoon W, had been President. And then who do the Repubs "gift" us with after W? trump.
Pathetic and disastrous.
OAITW r.2.0
(24,641 posts)What could have been if Al Gore was elected. Total different world reality.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)purged most traditional conservatism and moderates from office and replaced them with corrupt far-right servants of the wealthy. It was already an outrageous and intensely dishonest statement back then when the GOP was already becoming dangerous, with, we now know, RW leaders working to take over the government.
I was a young man in 90s and could clearly see the Republican party post "Republican Revolution" in 94 was morally corrupt under a very thin veil of pretty talking points.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)When the votes were counted Al Gore had won.
mzmolly
(51,006 posts)given Nader promised to run only in 'safe' states.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)election on my ballot for president there will be several candidates. Any citizen who is a natural-born citizen of the United States, is at least 35 years old, and has been a resident of the United States for 14 years has a right to run for president.
In 2020 there were 24 candidates running for President here in CO, Biden won. IMO there are no safe states.
mzmolly
(51,006 posts)Last edited Sat Oct 8, 2022, 09:29 AM - Edit history (1)
as I recall? He promised to run in 'safe' states, which meant skipping states (like Florida) where the race didn't come down to 500 votes.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)He's not the first non Democrat or non Republican to run for president. Happens every four years.
When the votes were counted Al Gore had won but that dirty SC stopped the recount. Al Gore won and Bush was installed, and Democrats and the people stayed silent. That's what should piss people off not that some candidate with no magic letters behind their name ran.
500 votes? Try 2,000 Democratic voters voted by mistake for Pat Buchanan because of the design of Florida's butterfly ballots. A number bigger than Bush's victory. But yeah, Nader
mzmolly
(51,006 posts)voting block, I agree. Were all paying the price for the gullibility of his cult following today.
I wonder why Nader fans think Democratic Underground would welcome their ignorance, here?
Autumn
(45,120 posts)brought up for no reason. There are problems with our elections that can be fixed but it's much easier to not get over one face or the fact that people who are not in the two major parties can run for president.
mzmolly
(51,006 posts)is the reason for his continued relevance. Unfortunately, we have reminders of his legacy daily.
https://www.pastemagazine.com/politics/supreme-court/the-ralph-nader-supreme-court/
We know Republican's don't share our vision. Nader was a "progressive" spoiler, who assisted the right wing and he deserves to be remembered for that.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)done with this.
mzmolly
(51,006 posts)true.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)mzmolly
(51,006 posts)side as Republicans. Presumably, that's why we don't see many defending Bush or Trump here.
DontBelieveEastisEas
(517 posts)Perhaps it would be better if a person's 2nd, then 3rd then 4th choice counted if their earlier pick was not the winner.
Ranked-choice, I believe.
Elections are too easily influenced with candidates like Perot and Kanye.
DontBelieveEastisEas
(517 posts)I think it meets the definition of cheating.
Celerity
(43,565 posts)1 in 4 black votes were rejected in Duval County (by an all-white, all-male, all-Republican canvassing board)
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-dec-10-mn-63791-story.html
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. Terry Smiths face scrunched up Saturday when he heard the news that the recounts had stopped.
Youre lying, right? he asked--twice--as he stared at the entrance of the Duval County Courthouse where the process was set to begin. But when he saw county workers filing out and heard the thud, thud, thud of news crews slamming van doors, he got his answer. I feel cheated, said Smith, a 33-year-old housekeeper. I feel like I got left out. Smith spoke for many in Duval County, home to the third-biggest pile of undervotes in the state. Democrats have their hopes pinned on these undervotes--ballots with no presidential choice clearly marked--because they believe many here come from first-time African American voters. Texas Gov. George W. Bush led Vice President Al Gore, 58% to 41%, in Duval County--but more than nine out of every 10 African Americans nationwide who voted chose Gore.
A Growing List of Complaints
snip
Ever since the Nov. 7 election, blacks here have been cataloging complaints: confusing ballot directions and Jim Crow-era voting machines; delayed reports of undervotes after election day; an all-white, all-male, all-Republican canvassing board.
snip
Blacks also are frustrated by Duval Countys state-high 21,942 overvotes--or double-punched ballots--that also were not counted. Nearly 42% of the countys spoiled ballots--overvotes and undervotes--came from predominantly black areas, even though only 20% of the total votes were cast there. Black leaders blame the high inner-city illiteracy rate and a sample ballot thought to be confusing to first-time voters. The evolution of Jacksonville has troubled many African American residents. The black-majority city merged with white-majority Duval County in 1968, diluting black political power just as many African Americans were first tasting it.
A Blistering Order From Washington
snip
Starting at 9 a.m. EST, lawyers for the Democratic and Republican parties appeared in front of the board and began arguing about how to cull the 4,967 undervotes from the 264,720 total votes cast. They also unloaded boilerplate arguments about ballot standards, with the Democrats insisting that the board consider dimpled chads and the Republicans pressing for a more restrictive, two-prong rule. Duval County officials said they would resolve that later. Meanwhile, the ballot counting machines arrived from Miami. On Friday, the Duval County board had ordered the machines flown up from Miami-Dade County, where officials two weeks ago had performed a similar cull. Despite GOP urgings that their use could result in a different number of undervotes, the canvassing board was all set to begin the separation process when the phone rang around 3 p.m.
snip
Autumn
(45,120 posts)leftieNanner
(15,165 posts)She has said effectively the same thing
MerryHolidays
(7,715 posts)electric_blue68
(14,953 posts)delisen
(6,044 posts)mountain grammy
(26,656 posts)and other times.. Al Gore would have been a great president, no doubt, but his choice of Lieberman for a running mate was awful and didn't win him any votes. In fact I think he lost because of that, but it's dust in the wind now.
I'm glad Nader is still active and involved. He's a great mind who sees the corporate evil for what it is.
MerryHolidays
(7,715 posts)I will never forget during that horrible month of the recounts when he said it didn't matter if the military votes weren't postmarked properly. I hope Al did not condone that, but that was just a total wimp-out.
mountain grammy
(26,656 posts)and later when he became an Independent, still a republican.. I honestly can't stand that man.
NNadir
(33,563 posts)Ripping off college students back in the day with that PIRG thing, PIRG being an ignorance factory, was a disgrace.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 7, 2022, 08:41 PM - Edit history (1)
being forced to publicly admit some difference in today's real world to retain credibility. Bernie Sanders was running on the same themes back then, and then with updated alterations in 2016 and 2020, but the same themes and insinuations of Democratic similarity to corrupt Republicans. Both Sanders and tRump even based campaigns on claims that Democrats "rigged" and stole the elections.
This warped, but entirely self promoting vision of the Democratic Party lives on. We always have believers coming to DU to denigrate Democrats as much as we let them get away with.
They and the MAGAs are two sides of a coin in that respect. Both find and create leaders who'll tell them what they want to hear, and they aren't about to give up the appalling dishonesty and wingnuttery required to support what they want to believe.
NNadir
(33,563 posts)Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,242 posts)stopdiggin
(11,382 posts)Come to think of it - you hear less and less people mouthing that tired old trope these days. (use to be utterly commonplace - but today .. ?) Something about not wanting to look like a complete f*cking moron ...
Wounded Bear
(58,725 posts)stopdiggin
(11,382 posts)to look slightly embarrassed when you give them the raised eyebrow? If not - then you're conversing with somebody that falls into the latter category mentioned.
Nobody but nobody, with any functioning brain cells ...
Wounded Bear
(58,725 posts)But after a couple of decades of people telling me they are "independent" and then endlessly defending repub bullshit has left me a bit cynical of anybody who "bothsides" an issue, any issue. The number of people who claim to be independent that actually takes any progressive policies or arguments seriously runs in the less than 10% range in my experience.
progressoid
(49,999 posts)Today's political landscape is nothing like it was over 2 decades ago.
Sympthsical
(9,124 posts)A secret desire to make Mambo No. 5 relevant again, and this is just a backdoor attempt.
I am Not. Having. It.
progressoid
(49,999 posts)Sympthsical
(9,124 posts)My entire cardio routine had this running brain background for the duration.
Not even Britney techno mixes could wash it out.
UTUSN
(70,748 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,725 posts)who always seem to favor the repub point of view. But oh no, they're independents!
BannonsLiver
(16,485 posts)Bless her heart.
ZonkerHarris
(24,259 posts)It was a failed concept then and now.